gunnerman
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Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:11 pm

Lufthansa is seeking to sue a passenger who did not take the last leg of their ticketed journey. Here is a not uncommon situation. A person wants to fly from A to B but finds a cheaper fare from A to C via the airline's hub at B. So, a ticket from A to C via B is purchased, the passenger gets off the aircraft at B and discards the B to C ticket. This works best with hand luggage only.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/lufthansa-passenger-tariff-abuse-cheap-flights-lawsuit-tickets-missing-air-france-british-airways-a8773371.html
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:15 pm

They should just have a policy of not waiting for connecting passengers with hand-luggage only. I don't think suing people is the answer.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:15 pm

Throw away ticketing. In the USA, UA and DL have been aggressively sending demand letters to habitual offenders, enforced by collection agencies. No need to sue :).
Nobody cares what your next flight is...
 
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casinterest
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:16 pm

Lufthansa lost the first round. It will be interesting to see if they appeal or not. They look like they are making a test case to make an example.
However at the end of the day it would seem to be difficult to convince a judge that they should be paid. After all, passengers rarely get compensated when an airline has delays or cancels flights due to weather.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:26 pm

The other day I went to the bakery and bought two cinnamon rolls but only ate one - I hope they don't sue me!

I know, "terrible analogy" as all the apologists would say - but the airlines have no one but themselves to blame for this nonsense. Reminds me of when Dougie justified nonrefundable tickets by comparing plane tickets to sporting event tickets. Apparently Dougie hasn't heard of stubhub.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:39 pm

gunnerman wrote:
Lufthansa is seeking to sue a passenger who did not take the last leg of their ticketed journey. Here is a not uncommon situation. A person wants to fly from A to B but finds a cheaper fare from A to C via the airline's hub at B. So, a ticket from A to C via B is purchased, the passenger gets off the aircraft at B and discards the B to C ticket. This works best with hand luggage only.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/lufthansa-passenger-tariff-abuse-cheap-flights-lawsuit-tickets-missing-air-france-british-airways-a8773371.html

I must be missing something.
If I get on a bus with a ticket for A to C, but I choose to get off at B, no problem.
If I get on a train from A to C, but choose to get off at B, no problem.
If I get in a taxi and agree a price for A to C, but change my plans mid-journey, no problem (as long as I pay the agreed fare)

I accept there could be a minor issue if the airport was expecting just five pax to deplane at B, and suddenly found itself swamped with 50 unexpected "guests".

And maybe this would be unacceptable if the mid-point was in a different country, and immigration was not available to process the unexpected arrivals.

Are either of these potential issues a) likely?, b) the airlines problem?
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:42 pm

9w748capt wrote:
The other day I went to the bakery and bought two cinnamon rolls but only ate one - I hope they don't sue me!

I know, "terrible analogy" as all the apologists would say - but the airlines have no one but themselves to blame for this nonsense. Reminds me of when Dougie justified nonrefundable tickets by comparing plane tickets to sporting event tickets. Apparently Dougie hasn't heard of stubhub.


A more accurate analogy is the bakery only offers the 2-for-1 special for take out orders. As you will not be eating in the store they will not have the cost of washing your dishes, a server serving you at your table, etc. you stand in line at the to-go counter, pay for the 2-for-1 and then take your food and sit down in the dining room. You are using a product you didn’t pay for and took advantage of a cheaper product to get in.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:50 pm

Right. Airlines at it, again. For some reason, they seem to have no problem pocketing the revenue from the "full" no-shows, but are deeply offended if a "partial" no-show/thow-away ticketing situation arises.
As always, the timeless writing by Joe Brancatelli is what best describes the situation:
http://joe.biztravelife.com/97/090897.htm
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
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cheeken
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:51 pm

I don't get it.

The passenger would have just saved lufthansa a bit of money on fuel...whether or not the passenger flew the route shouldn't matter, since the route has already been paid for.........
 
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casinterest
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:51 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
The other day I went to the bakery and bought two cinnamon rolls but only ate one - I hope they don't sue me!

I know, "terrible analogy" as all the apologists would say - but the airlines have no one but themselves to blame for this nonsense. Reminds me of when Dougie justified nonrefundable tickets by comparing plane tickets to sporting event tickets. Apparently Dougie hasn't heard of stubhub.


A more accurate analogy is the bakery only offers the 2-for-1 special for take out orders. As you will not be eating in the store they will not have the cost of washing your dishes, a server serving you at your table, etc. you stand in line at the to-go counter, pay for the 2-for-1 and then take your food and sit down in the dining room. You are using a product you didn’t pay for and took advantage of a cheaper product to get in.


I don't know of any bakery that does this, and that bakery would probably be out of business rather quickly.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:53 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
I must be missing something.


The issue from the airline's perspective (and, to be fair, also the bus or train operators') is that they might have been able to sell that seat on the B to C leg for a higher fare than what they charged the original passenger. Because the passenger did not continue past B, that seat flies empty and the potential additional revenue is lost. They also lose out on the extra revenue they would have earned if the passenger had just flown A-C at the higher fare.

That being said, if the airline is offering a better fare doing A-B-C rather than non-stop A-C, that could imply that traffic between B and C is low and therefore prices are cheaper to encourage traffic. And that seat, even though empty, did generate revenue from the original fare.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:53 pm

Airlines need to get a life. Perhaps if they did not charge such freaking ridiculous prices, which is nothing more than price gouging, people would not do this. Kudos to the gentleman. I hope he wins.
Last edited by AEROFAN on Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:56 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
The other day I went to the bakery and bought two cinnamon rolls but only ate one - I hope they don't sue me!

I know, "terrible analogy" as all the apologists would say - but the airlines have no one but themselves to blame for this nonsense. Reminds me of when Dougie justified nonrefundable tickets by comparing plane tickets to sporting event tickets. Apparently Dougie hasn't heard of stubhub.


A more accurate analogy is the bakery only offers the 2-for-1 special for take out orders. As you will not be eating in the store they will not have the cost of washing your dishes, a server serving you at your table, etc. you stand in line at the to-go counter, pay for the 2-for-1 and then take your food and sit down in the dining room. You are using a product you didn’t pay for and took advantage of a cheaper product to get in.

Except it's the other way around: you paid for a service you didn't use. And, in the end, the provider agreed to provide you with a discount if you buy the whole package.
 
ScottB
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:57 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
A more accurate analogy is the bakery only offers the 2-for-1 special for take out orders. As you will not be eating in the store they will not have the cost of washing your dishes, a server serving you at your table, etc. you stand in line at the to-go counter, pay for the 2-for-1 and then take your food and sit down in the dining room. You are using a product you didn’t pay for and took advantage of a cheaper product to get in.


That's not even a good analogy since you're trying to compare with two classes of service; i.e. a class of service that only allows take-away and another class of service that involves table service and dishes which must be washed. Your analogy is akin to buying a two-for-one special on Y tickets and expecting a two seats in F.

casinterest wrote:
Lufthansa lost the first round. It will be interesting to see if they appeal or not. They look like they are making a test case to make an example.


I'm really surprised they actually went to the courts -- not so much due to the public relations aspect of it, but rather because losing a test case might make that provision in the contract of carriage unenforceable, and they really don't want that. They could probably get sued for future attempts at enforcing the prohibition on hidden city ticketing if they lose their appeals.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:58 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
The other day I went to the bakery and bought two cinnamon rolls but only ate one - I hope they don't sue me!

I know, "terrible analogy" as all the apologists would say - but the airlines have no one but themselves to blame for this nonsense. Reminds me of when Dougie justified nonrefundable tickets by comparing plane tickets to sporting event tickets. Apparently Dougie hasn't heard of stubhub.


A more accurate analogy is the bakery only offers the 2-for-1 special for take out orders. As you will not be eating in the store they will not have the cost of washing your dishes, a server serving you at your table, etc. you stand in line at the to-go counter, pay for the 2-for-1 and then take your food and sit down in the dining room. You are using a product you didn’t pay for and took advantage of a cheaper product to get in.


You think that's an accurate analogy? Really? Well you must work for an airline revenue management's department that comes up with those idiotic price points. So customer sits down in the restaurant which would be capacity constrained and none of the restaurant workers asks him/her to get up and leave? Really...
 
bennett123
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:00 pm

Equally that seat from B to C could remain unsold.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:01 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
The other day I went to the bakery and bought two cinnamon rolls but only ate one - I hope they don't sue me!

I know, "terrible analogy" as all the apologists would say - but the airlines have no one but themselves to blame for this nonsense. Reminds me of when Dougie justified nonrefundable tickets by comparing plane tickets to sporting event tickets. Apparently Dougie hasn't heard of stubhub.


A more accurate analogy is the bakery only offers the 2-for-1 special for take out orders. As you will not be eating in the store they will not have the cost of washing your dishes, a server serving you at your table, etc. you stand in line at the to-go counter, pay for the 2-for-1 and then take your food and sit down in the dining room. You are using a product you didn’t pay for and took advantage of a cheaper product to get in.


Not a great analogy IMO. A better example would be if I bought two cinnamon rolls for $5 instead of one for $10, and then threw one away in front of the store's CEO. Would the CEO then sue me? A poster above countered with "well won't the airline save money on fuel by transporting one less passenger", when in reality one passenger isn't going to have an appreciable effect on fuel consumption. Similarly, the amount of money the bakery would save by washing one less dish is also negligible in the grand scheme of things. In any case, I'm going to be laughing my butt off when LH loses.
Last edited by 9w748capt on Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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sergegva
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:03 pm

casinterest wrote:
Lufthansa lost the first round.


Do you have a link showing the first round's jugement? This is very interesting.
 
PBITran
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:05 pm

cheeken wrote:
I don't get it.

The passenger would have just saved lufthansa a bit of money on fuel...whether or not the passenger flew the route shouldn't matter, since the route has already been paid for.........



No, the passenger cost Lufthansa money because they didn't pay the higher far to their actual destination. They paid for a different destination that may have more competition/seats and more competitive pricing.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:09 pm

So, non-stop O&D passengers can sue airlines for charging more than connecting passenger on the same route???
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:09 pm

AEROFAN wrote:
Airlines need to get a life.

Groovy phraseology, haven’t heard that one in a few decades.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:14 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
They should just have a policy of not waiting for connecting passengers with hand-luggage only. I don't think suing people is the answer.


If they did that, they lose a goldmine. Sometimes tickets to Munich are more expensive than a long haul flight with the same flight as feeder (aside of the same day return bit).

Best regards
Thomas
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Pi7472000
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:14 pm

Airlines rarely compensate for awful service, missed connections, lost luggage, weather or even mechanicals. Why should it be different for passengers? Some airlines routinely fail to provide the service that passengers paid for and are never provide monetary funds for the service. I will look twice before booking Lufthansa.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:18 pm

sergegva wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Lufthansa lost the first round.


Do you have a link showing the first round's jugement? This is very interesting.

OP link:
While an initial court case found in the passenger’s favour, Lufthansa has been given permission to appeal.
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:19 pm

Can someone summarize what LHs case would be here? Are there terms of carriage that are being broken here intentionally?

I imagine there is some writing that you should be taking the flight you have booked, but seems like it would be hard to actually recoup costs or charge additional.
 
Flightradar
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:20 pm

Very interesting lawsuit. I suspect the passenger will win ultimately.
 
ncflyer
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:29 pm

What makes it hard to sympathize with these airlines is usually the throw away pricing opportunities arise in to large hub airports, where airlines really take advantage of their dominant, monopoly like positions.
Last edited by ncflyer on Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Adipocere
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:29 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Equally that seat from B to C could remain unsold.


I thought airlines already invented “overbooking” to deal with these situations?
 
steex
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:29 pm

Whether one agrees with the airline's argument or not, it's important to remember here that their product is the transportation, not the seats. Using the example in the linked article, if one buys a ticket to fly SVO-CDG non-stop, it is quite a bit more expensive than booking SVO-CDG-LHR. However, in the latter case, the airline has sold the product "one-stop travel from Moscow to London," and the passenger has elected to instead utilize the more valuable product "non-stop travel from Moscow to Paris."

If a bakery does a 2-for-1 special, you get a second helping of the same product and it's seen as a positive. In contrast, people generally do not consider the provision of two flights to reach their destination superior to a single flight for the same travel. To this end, carriers which utilize connecting traffic to help fill airplanes realize their "one-stop travel from Moscow to London" product is inferior to a competitor's "non-stop travel from Moscow to London" and must price accordingly, but also realize that same offering may NOT be inferior to their own "non-stop travel from Moscow to Paris" product and price that accordingly, too.
 
Draken21fx
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:33 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
The other day I went to the bakery and bought two cinnamon rolls but only ate one - I hope they don't sue me!

I know, "terrible analogy" as all the apologists would say - but the airlines have no one but themselves to blame for this nonsense. Reminds me of when Dougie justified nonrefundable tickets by comparing plane tickets to sporting event tickets. Apparently Dougie hasn't heard of stubhub.


A more accurate analogy is the bakery only offers the 2-for-1 special for take out orders. As you will not be eating in the store they will not have the cost of washing your dishes, a server serving you at your table, etc. you stand in line at the to-go counter, pay for the 2-for-1 and then take your food and sit down in the dining room. You are using a product you didn’t pay for and took advantage of a cheaper product to get in.

Except it's the other way around: you paid for a service you didn't use. And, in the end, the provider agreed to provide you with a discount if you buy the whole package.


So I guess all the people who buy a fixed line internet connection along with a phone line and a (bad) TV subscription should be sued in case they only use the internet out of the package they are paying in full right?
At what point is usage at an acceptable level in this case? One phone call a month plus one hour of TV?
 
AEROFAN
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:34 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
So, non-stop O&D passengers can sue airlines for charging more than connecting passenger on the same route???


The travelling public should start doing this :D
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:35 pm

So if the passenger flies A to B then becomes ill and does not complete airline then sues? To many variables the airline doesn't have a chance of making this stick.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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gsg013
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:36 pm

I get it i dont know about suing the pax though..

For instance I am flying to Florence Italy this May JFK-CDG-FLR on AF. JFK-CDG is a premium route and the cost for the flight JFK-CDG-JFK is significantly higher than my flight JFK-CDG-FLR-CDG-JFK. The issue is when I booked I paid $3800 pp in J if we were going to paris on the exact same flight JFK-CDG-JFK the fare was ~$6200. if you try to beat the system and pay the lower price the airline loses out on the premium non-stop option from JFK-CDG. I always thought to try to stop this airlines charge a significant premium for one way tickets intl vs round trip this way if you no-show for one leg of the flight the rest of your legs would automatically be canceled.
 
FlyingLaw1
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:37 pm

I don't know what the fare difference was... But I can assure you it was probably less than what LH is paying the attorneys.
 
EBiafore99
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:38 pm

Adipocere wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Equally that seat from B to C could remain unsold.


I thought airlines already invented “overbooking” to deal with these situations?


EXACTLY!! The airlines are very clear about this...they overbook because of no-shows. A person no-showed. I fail to see LH's logic.
 
gsg013
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:38 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
So if the passenger flies A to B then becomes ill and does not complete airline then sues? To many variables the airline doesn't have a chance of making this stick.


They're not doing this to a person who one off gets sick. They are doing this to a habitual offender who has tried to game the system multiple times.
 
workhorse
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:39 pm

Remind me to not book with Lufthansa ever.


... oh wait, you don't need to, I haven't done that since like 7 years or more. And this kind of attitude is one of the reasons. Can you imagine EasyJet suing their passengers for NOT taking a flight?

This kind of news should be all over the media so that more people stop flying with these greedy dumbwits and support more honest businesses.
 
maverick4002
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:40 pm

Stitch wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
I must be missing something.


The issue from the airline's perspective (and, to be fair, also the bus or train operators') is that they might have been able to sell that seat on the B to C leg for a higher fare than what they charged the original passenger. Because the passenger did not continue past B, that seat flies empty and the potential additional revenue is lost.


Going back to my high school econ days, theoretically I agree but practically wouldnt this argument fall flat unless the one seat the passenger was expected to fill ends up being now the only seat on the flight? Its hard to argue the opportunity cost here from the airlines perspective as if they had say 10 seats empty, that potential lost revenue doesnt apply because then it would have gone to one of those ten seats no?


They also lose out on the extra revenue they would have earned if the passenger had just flown A-C at the higher fare.


Then they need to price it better to avoid these scenarios lol


That being said, if the airline is offering a better fare doing A-B-C rather than non-stop A-C, that could imply that traffic between B and C is low and therefore prices are cheaper to encourage traffic. And that seat, even though empty, did generate revenue from the original fare.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:43 pm

That being said, if the airline is offering a better fare doing A-B-C rather than non-stop A-C, that could imply that traffic between B and C is low and therefore prices are cheaper to encourage traffic. And that seat, even though empty, did generate revenue from the original fare.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: checkmark:

Exactly. Lufthansa got paid for the leg that the pax did take, and saved weight, fuel, food, etc., on the leg that he didn't take.

I find it hard to feel sorry for airlines in this situation. As others have stated, the laws, rules and CoCs are all set up to favor the airlines in nearly all situations. Now, when a passenger tries to work a loophole - a legally permissible loophole - the airline sues? Nope, sorry. I also envision situations where a passenger's plans may change during the connection, sometimes through no fault of their own. How many times have family emergencies come up? Or, business travelers have their plans changed by the home office at the last moment? Or, someone just decides to change their plans midstream? I did that once when things just changed in mid-travel with TWA out of Washington National. Will these passengers be sued?

Sorry Lufthansa. This is a big fail.
 
afcjets
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:46 pm

This is nothing new to airlines. Hidden cities have been around since the early 1980s. Airlines solely determine fares and routings. It’s not the passengers fault they offer a lower fare from A to C but have to connect through B where they charge more. Fortunately kidnapping and holding someone for ransom is illegal in the US and we are free citizens and no one can force you to board a plane or charge you to leave an airport. If the airline has a problem with it, they can resolve it by either offering nonstop flights or set the price from A to C the same or higher. The bottom line is airlines make the most money doing it the way they do it and nothing is going to change. Lawsuits, collection agencies, etc. are nothing more than smoke and mirrors and scare tactics to try and prevent others from considering it.
Last edited by afcjets on Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:52 pm, edited 6 times in total.
 
oldave417
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:46 pm

I am dealing with this same issue right now. I want to fly CLT-SAN on April 22. (I know this is CLT and it's one of the absolute worst airports for this, but still) AAL says I can take AA639 CLT-SAN non-stop for $633. But AAL also says I can fly CLT-SAN-LAX, with first segment still being AA639, for $293. Now how does that make sense? If I fly double the segments, it's half the price?? While flying AA639 in either case??
 
gsg013
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:46 pm

FlyingLaw1 wrote:
I don't know what the fare difference was... But I can assure you it was probably less than what LH is paying the attorneys.


Agree on this... not sure how it works in Germany but in the US in most cases if you sue and win the defendant has to pay the plaintiff's legal fees. Lufthansa is most likely using this as a test case to see if they will win, once they win a case and there is legal precedent the next case will be easily handled in the same way as the last one making the process much cheaper. In future cases the defendant will if smart choose to settle for the $$ owed and not pay to go through the expensive legal process just to lose and have to pay more.
 
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sergegva
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:48 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
sergegva wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Lufthansa lost the first round.


Do you have a link showing the first round's jugement? This is very interesting.

OP link:
While an initial court case found in the passenger’s favour, Lufthansa has been given permission to appeal.


Thanks. But I'm looking for a specific reference to this judgment. Which court rendered it, and when?
EDIT: according to this article, it is "Amtsgericht Berlin-Mitte". Therefore, the content of this judgment should be accessible somewhere....
Last edited by sergegva on Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:50 pm

Hidden destinations are rather common. Here in the Netherlands the Consumentenbond (consumers organisation) has started a court case against KLM for the same reason. They're likely to win, which means that hidden destinations would be allowed and airlines must just accept it.

Court cases like these are bad PR for the airlines, it gives them a negative name. On the other hand there are some airlines that don't have any problems with hidden destinations, they just allow them. Some even go one step further and allow for hidden departures, meaning skipping the first leg and showing up at the transfer airport for the second leg.

My opinion is that these practices should be allowed. The airline has sold the seat, it's up to the passenger if they use it or not.
 
gsg013
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:50 pm

oldave417 wrote:
I am dealing with this same issue right now. I want to fly CLT-SAN on April 22. (I know this is CLT and it's one of the absolute worst airports for this, but still) AAL says I can take AA639 CLT-SAN non-stop for $633. But AAL also says I can fly CLT-SAN-LAX, with first segment still being AA639, for $293. Now how does that make sense? If I fly double the segments, it's half the price?? While flying AA639 in either case??


Because you are paying a premium for a non-stop. If you wanted to go CLT-LAX you could pay $578 non-stop or you could connect (CLT-SAN-LAX) for $293... Im sure if you wanted to take a connection to SAN you could go CLT-PHX-SAN for much less as well.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:52 pm

Draken21fx wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:

A more accurate analogy is the bakery only offers the 2-for-1 special for take out orders. As you will not be eating in the store they will not have the cost of washing your dishes, a server serving you at your table, etc. you stand in line at the to-go counter, pay for the 2-for-1 and then take your food and sit down in the dining room. You are using a product you didn’t pay for and took advantage of a cheaper product to get in.

Except it's the other way around: you paid for a service you didn't use. And, in the end, the provider agreed to provide you with a discount if you buy the whole package.


So I guess all the people who buy a fixed line internet connection along with a phone line and a (bad) TV subscription should be sued in case they only use the internet out of the package they are paying in full right?
At what point is usage at an acceptable level in this case? One phone call a month plus one hour of TV?

You didn't understand. I'm not defending LH, on the contrary.

jetmatt777 said what the pax did was paying for something and using more service; I said it was the other way around, where the pax bought a whole package and used only a portion of it (as your analogy). And that resulted in the overall package being cheaper that a lesser package.
 
oldave417
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:55 pm

True but it is very tempting to book the CLT-SAN-LAX trip and not take the 2nd leg, like the passenger in the Lufthansa case. Also tempting to choose another airline and have AAL miss out on any revenue from me at all.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:55 pm

It appears the point is being missed by many posting here. The issue is not that the passenger failed to show up for a flight; it is that the passenger allegedly bought a fare which was sold on the condition of it being for a connection, with no intention of taking the connection. A small quote from the article illustrates the situation quite well:

For example, a test booking made by The Independent for travel from Moscow to Paris CDG for September 2019 found a fare of £217. But a ticket using the same flight to the French capital but with an onward connection to Heathrow was only £72, less than one-third of the price.

So it is not simply a case of buying a product which they then don’t use, but rather buying a product at a price which they are not entitled to.

9w748capt wrote:
The other day I went to the bakery and bought two cinnamon rolls but only ate one - I hope they don't sue me!

I know, "terrible analogy" as all the apologists would say - but the airlines have no one but themselves to blame for this nonsense. Reminds me of when Dougie justified nonrefundable tickets by comparing plane tickets to sporting event tickets. Apparently Dougie hasn't heard of stubhub.

Indeed, a better analogy would be going to a bakery which is offering a 2-for-1 deal for participants in a marathon they are sponsoring, and pretending to be a runner so you can get a free bun, when in fact you are not a participant in the marathon at all.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:59 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
It appears the point is being missed by many posting here. The issue is not that the passenger failed to show up for a flight; it is that the passenger allegedly bought a fare which was sold on the condition of it being for a connection, with no intention of taking the connection.


The question however is if that condition is legal. Very likely it is not.
 
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spinotter
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Re: Lufthansa wants to sue passenger for not taking booked flight

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:00 pm

DarthLobster wrote:
AEROFAN wrote:
Airlines need to get a life.

Groovy phraseology, haven’t heard that one in a few decades.


Until just now, I have never heard that expression applied to an airline! I wonder how that would work, an airline trying to get a life of its own?

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