Cubsrule
Topic Author
Posts: 11370
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 1:19 am

Hi all. I'm planning a trip to SCL (from ORD) and am having to make some decisions about which airline(s) to use. I'm not paying so price is not a huge issue, but I would like to fly a Star Alliance carrier for the miles. Thus, I'd like some information comparing both the service of RG and AC and ease of transferring in YYZ and GRU. I'm particularly interested in the existence or lack thereof of a sterile transfer area in GRU due to the nature of dealing with Brazillian immigration with an American passport. Thanks in advance for your replies.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 1:28 am

Cubsrule:

I think you answered your own question mate -- dealing with Brazilian immigration with an American passport? According to most, not a pleasant experience. I think your best bet in terms of ease and quality of service is AC - ORD/YYZ/SCL.

The SCL service currently operates 4 times per week (Tu/Th/Sa/Su). Effective November 1st, given the popularity of the route it will commence daily ops.

Happy Flying

Rod
Above and Beyond
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6171
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 1:40 am

I am very surprised to see that UA does not fly non-stop to SCL. To tell the truth, both alternatives sound interesting, just bear in mind that RG does not fly to ORD so you would have to fly ORD-GRU with UA and then GRU-SCL with RG. I have heard very good comments of UA's flights to GRU, so I would probably choose UA/RG.

GRU is hated by many and loved by others. In my opinion, it is not a complicated airport and connecting there should not be an issue. Dealing with Brazilian immigration with an American passport equates to having your picture and fingerprint taken... nothing complicated. It's what most people have to go through when entering the U.S. anyway. I don't know if transit passengers need to go through this or not, but I would tend to think that they do. In any case, just be careful with the time you have at GRU. If you leave the gates area, you will need to make a line again in order to get through passport control and those lines can be really long depending on the time of the day.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
Cubsrule
Topic Author
Posts: 11370
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 1:47 am

Eddie- If I went with RG, I'd probably fly ORD-MIA on UA and then to GRU on RG metal, especially if they are still using MD-11s from MIA to GRU when I go. Thanks for the advice.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
daumueller
Posts: 668
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:45 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 2:10 am

or, go ORD-EZE on UA and then EZE-SCL on LH (A340-600  Smile ) - little extra way but I'd say it's worth it.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6171
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 2:11 am

I see. I thought you would not want to add another stop and change of planes in your itinerary because of the loss of time. I sort of prefer the smallest number of connections possible (or non-stop flights if available). Let us know what you decide.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6171
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 2:24 am

I'd definitely do what Daumuller suggests. Just check the time of arrival of the UA flight and the departure time of the LH flight.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
cayman
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:28 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 2:24 am

First of all--the fingerprinting for US citizens is NOt the same as the US Visit electronic fingerprints--they (Brazil) fingerprint using ink (like being booked in a cop station)---lines are often very long if you are in back of plane--all in all a hassle to be avoided if you have any other alternative--I would also caution you against transiting through MIA because although it is one of my favourite cities on the planet it is one of my least favourite airports--long horrible lines--gate issues---also to be avoided--

The YYZ SCL non-stop is a great option--and as I have said on many forums before AC offers a great product--if by chance you are going Biz class then hands down go AC through YYZ--frequent flights from ORD to YYZ so it's a very easy connection and i can tell you from first hand expereince that the AC intl. EXecFirst business class product is outstanding and superior to anything offered by any of the major US carriers which tend to offer 3 full classes--
 
RT514
Posts: 399
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 2:11 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 3:36 am

Although I haven't flown RG, I have flown on an AC B763ER from YVR-SYD (the same type flown from YYZ-SCL) and Hospitality Class is excellent. You would find it is a roomy and good quality product, better than that offered on any other AC widebody, and definitely better than UA's Coach.

I've also flown Business Class on AC's same aircraft type and I agree with Cayman, it's outstanding.

Avoiding Brazilian immigration (as you have stated that is a point of concern) and knowing that you can have confidence in AC's product on this route, I'd say that the scales would be tipped in favour of AC.
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 5:44 am

Cubsrule: Chilean way actually starts onboard LAN! Well, as for your question, I think the it depends: AC does not fly daily, so if you need specific dates maybe this is not the best alternative. RG fly to Santiago 3 flights daily, including the 777. UA and LH sounds good, also crossing the Andes and watch the Aconcagua (the highest peak of the Andes) worth it, so try a window seat if you do it (same with RG).
Are you coming for holidays? any plans?

Eddie: UA dropped Santiago, it seem AA and LA were too tough competitors. Actually, when AA and LA were negotiating the codesharing UA was a strong opposing and made a lot of noise in order to stop it. After the agreement (before LA joined OW), this alliance made both of them very strong players in USA-Chile market. United was not the only victim, CO also leaved SCL (actually LA was very "dirty" player about CO case). Now DL is the only competitor of this alliance. Good thing LA does not flight to ATL! Remember Chile and USA have open sky agreement.

As for UA and Chile, this is a photo I really like: the last day of United in Santiago de Chile

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Renzo Pontiggia


Regards!

)( Arcano
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6171
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 5:50 am

Thanks for the pic Arcano! Hopefully the "we will never forget" will translate into the resumption of the flight at some point in the future.

I agree LA would be the best choice, but if our Chicago friend wants Star Alliance carrier(s), then the ORD-EZE with UA and EZE-SCL with LH sounds to me like the best alternative. I would definitely do that!
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 8:03 am

I would be very cautious about making any long or near term flight bookings with AC. AC remains in bankruptcy protection -- short term or near term liquidation is a reasonable possibility. AC continues to lose money and there is no indication it can or will emerge from bankruptcy.

Everyone should avoid AC until it's future is clearer.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 8:17 am

It hurts me when I ear to use RG from US to Brazil...Of course I would suggest MIA/GRU with TAM...although it is not StarAlliance...just a suggestion.
 
carlos1979
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:40 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 8:33 am

YYZ 117

I completely disagree, we should continue to support Air Canada. Let's face facts, the Canadian Government will never let AC fail, it would kill the economy. I wouldn't have an qualms about booking a flight on AC months from now. They're not going anywhere.

 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 8:38 am

I also agree with the colleague from Canada...just remembering VARIG in in a very, very bad shape...and it is not under any Chapter 11 or similar because of a law in Brazil that does not allow an airline to enter into this kind of protection. If and airline in Brazil is in bad shape, very, very near to close, than it will close!!! RG is the a problem also.
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 9:01 am

Let's face facts, the Canadian Government will never let AC fail, it would kill the economy.

The Cdn govt will not bail out AC. AC's demise will not affect the economy.

I completely disagree, we should continue to support Air Canada.

We should support all airlines, not just AC.

The fact remains that AC could still collapse within weeks or months. Cdns are well versed on AC's travails but non-Cdns are not. AC should be avoided at all costs until its near term longevity is assured. You will be much safer flying RG or any other airline.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
RT514
Posts: 399
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 2:11 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 9:20 am

The fact remains that AC could still collapse within weeks or months

It sure could... as could many other airlines. I remember how quickly Ansett Australia ceased operations in 2001. It came quick and with very little warning. That possibility exists virtually anywhere.


AC should be avoided at all costs until its near term longevity is assured

It just was. In fact, its future is far more secure today than it was just two weeks ago.


You will be much safer flying RG or any other airline

Really? Safer than UA? Safer than US Airways?


I think that Cubsrule has gotten a lot of good advice in this thread (Yyz717's attempts to promote the prophecy of his signature aside) and regardless of the decision, bon voyage.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6171
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 11:54 am

I don't think that booking a flight with AC could be risky. For starters, Deutsche Bank agreed to make funds available to the company so I don't think there is an imminent risk of winding-up. Second, I believe that the company has already hit rock bottom, financially speaking, and will start improving slowly but constantly.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
LacsaA320
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 3:15 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 12:22 pm

If you are flying first into MIA, why not take the best Latin America carrier directly to SCL: Lan????????????
 
SafeFlyer
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 6:41 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Mon May 31, 2004 12:23 pm

Booking with AC should not be a problem. The airline is in no worst shape than UA and as another member stated, RG is supposedly in no-better shape too. And even If they folded, it would be much more easier to retrieve your money, Canada is closer let's say.

Secondly, the international product AC offers in both classes is very good, it does not have advanced IFE systems, but many people would be ready to pass that option for a 34" seat pitch.

Thirdly, I've never flown RG so I just can't comment.

Hope this helps.
 
Cubsrule
Topic Author
Posts: 11370
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:24 am

Thanks for all of your advice. Arcano- I'm actually not coming until January of 2005, but I want to make plans over the summer as preparations will just get harder when school starts again (August). It's a semester program in Santiago, so I'll leave at the end of May. To respond to the bickering Canadians, I have no qualms about booking and flying UA, US, and DL in the states, and I can't imagine that AC is in any worse shape. I'm leaning toward AC or the UA/LH combination, and there will surely be a trip report after I travel. That 34 inch pitch sure sounds good...
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
carlos1979
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:40 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:51 am

YYZ717

I don't know where you studied Economics, but when the national airline of a country goes under, it has a profound impact on the national economy. I'm not saying that the economy would collapse, but it would hurt. Imagine the burden on the EI system of an extra 35,000 claimants, loss in tax income, loss of cargo capacity, the list goes on. There is no possible way that any responsible government (Liberals????) could let this happen.
I completely agree with you that we should support all airlines, regardless of financial performance.

C
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:20 am

I don't know where you studied Economics, but when the national airline of a country goes under, it has a profound impact on the national economy. I'm not saying that the economy would collapse, but it would hurt. Imagine the burden on the EI system of an extra 35,000 claimants, loss in tax income, loss of cargo capacity, the list goes on.

Most of the lucrative AC routes will quickly be pciked up by other carriers within weeks of an AC shutdown. The national economy will barely notice the difference.

EI is self-funding, and other Cdn airlines will staff up. Nortel laid off 40k employees in 2000/2001---the Cdn ecpnomy was not impacted. With the AC ee's spread throut canada -- the effect will be even less with AC.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:13 am

LAN, the best Latin American carrier? It iis a joke.....
 
Lan_Fanatic
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 11:41 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:34 am

Yeah sure JJMNGR...
Who's better? TAM? Varig?
 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:48 am

Lan Fan: naaaaaaaaah, I bet he means Gol... no, better VASP!
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
User avatar
TR763
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2001 10:07 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:02 pm

Hey Cubsrule, I don´t know if this is possible, but as RG and AC are from STAR, maybe you could try to go with one of them, and come back with another! Maybe ORD-YYZ-SCL with AC and SCL-GRU-ORD with RG/UA.
Would be interesting!

All the Best
TR763 Big grin
Image
Picture by Justin Cederholm at MCO.
 
carlos1979
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:40 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:50 am

YYZ117

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I can't see the validity of your arguments and you obviously can't see the validity of mine. I think we can both agree that the current situation with AC isn't ideal, and hopefully a resolution is quick in coming.

C
 
Cubsrule
Topic Author
Posts: 11370
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:24 am

Let me ask you Canadians this: Is AC in worse shape than the American carriers that are having problems like UA, US, and DL? Unfortunately, I don't know Canadian aviation too well.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
md11dude
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 8:03 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:41 am

YYz717 .....if people avoid flying AC because of chpt 11, then its going to be even worse off....thats exactly the attitude that hurts. But on the other hand I cannot foresee AC dissolving as i Know for a fact that the federal govt. will not allow AC to dissappear as--it is the only major carrier canada has, and if it happened this country would be in utter chaos to say the least. AC will not go away, do not expect a westjet flight to Frankfurt!

best reagards
dk
CP979
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:54 am

Of course for a FAN of LAN, Singapore Airlines worldwide known as a TOP AIRLINE doesn´t mean anything....

But one thing I can tell...LAN is no doubt, not the best Latin American carrier....TAM for sure....and it is not because I am a fan of TAM...I have sense of analysis.

Fly TAM first, than compare and if, and only IF it is going to be the case, please fell free to claim.
 
WiLdmanVzla
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 12:17 pm

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:01 am

Well, I'm not chilean... but try LA, it's a very good airline, a lott better than RG for sure.

*******
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:10 am

BETTER THAN VARIG...YES I AGREE.
 
cayman
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:28 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:11 am

Cubsrule--

As you can see the issue of Air Canada raises alot of hot opinions amongst Canadians.

However, on any objective analysis (in my opinion for what it is worth--I practise aviation law and hopefully know something about the issue, I hope!)--in light of the recent deal reached with all of its unions AC is in good shape short to medium term. While they could well have faced liquidation in absence of a deal with unions, they got the deal, and previously got financing from Deutschbank which was conditional on a deal with unions and they got that, which in and of istelf says something positive. There is no question AC needs to come up with a new business model, some say they have done so, focusing on a LCC approach domestically and providing full services on their extensive international route network.

With respect to those who differ, I believe it is unrealistic to suggest that AC is in any more difficulty at the moment than US carriers in Chp11. For the avoidance of doubt, I would not have said that before the cost savings deal that was reached against all odds and at last minute (the Cdn arm of the UAW who represent a large number of employers played teamster style aggressive). But in the end they got a good deal and concessions.

There is another factor that supports AC: the canadian federal government will NOT allow AC to fail. This topic has been debated to death on a.net but a political and economic analsysis shows that the govt could not permit AC to go under. Even when the much smaller CP failed years ago it caused sufficient problems for the federal government to essentially impose the solution on AC. Many argue had they simply let CP fail then and not imposed their debt, employees and unions (this is no slight on any ex CP employee) on AC, then AC would not have become insolvent in the first place.

AC will go on. Now, that said, I agree with YYZ717 to the extent that AC's long term viability depends on its ability to cut costs, however, there is no risk to the flying public in buying tickets on AC, at least no more risk (I would say less given the poltical bailout if necessary in Canada) than US, UA or DL or even AA.

I've put my money where my mouth is and purchased Exec First (business class) tickets on AC to Asia in months to come for business. I can tell you that their product is justoutstanding on ExecFirst.

Cheers,

 
Arcano
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

RE: AC Or RG To South America?

Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:34 am

JJMNGR

Hey, you have right to love TAM and not like LAN, but read polls, rankings, etc. You will see a lot of awards for LAN as the best Latin American Carrier. LAN service is awesome. I now TAM is good too, but LAN is widely better recognized, it also have a lot better network, it belongs to OW (TAM just desires it)

Facts:
  • Skytraks ranks LA as "4 star", TAM as "3"

  • OAG just choose LA as the best airline in Latin America (Central and South America plus Caribbean)-fourth time in a row. In this category, there were also nominated MX, AM and RG, nothing about TAM http://www.oag.com/about_oag/a_of_y/summary.asp

  • LA coach and Business class are among the top ten

  • ETC


  • Yes, I'm a fan of LAN, but based on facts, on achievements, on healthy finance, on efficience. Love TAM and hate LA if you want, but at least be cold and recognize LA is way better than RG and TAM. Although the truly competitor of LAN is RG, great airline: fleet, destinations, tradition, brand value, etc. TAM might serve good hot meals, but it's far away to be a world class airline.

    )(


    in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
     
    User avatar
    TR763
    Posts: 752
    Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2001 10:07 am

    RE: AC Or RG To South America?

    Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:32 am

    JJMNGR
    I´m sorry, but I think that Arcano is right! I´m a HUGE fan of TAM, but we can´t close our eyes to our neighbour here that is LAN. It´s great Airline that I believe to be the best latin american carrier.
    For us to have the best airline of latin america I think that or JJ or RG would need to disappear generating a huge airline! Well, everybody knows this anyway...

    Arcano, I agreed with you, but please do not ridicularize (don´t know if this word exists...  Smile ) GOL and VASP as you did some posts ago! That was kinda rude - don´t know if this was your intention, but it was the impression that I had. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

    All the Best!
    TR763 Big grin
    Image
    Picture by Justin Cederholm at MCO.
     
    RT514
    Posts: 399
    Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 2:11 am

    RE: AC Or RG To South America?

    Wed Jun 02, 2004 1:57 pm

    Let me ask you Canadians this: Is AC in worse shape than the American carriers that are having problems like UA, US, and DL? Unfortunately, I don't know Canadian aviation too well.

    Cubsrule, Cayman has provided some very good information on this topic. To answer your question simply, no. Nor was I trying to imply that at any one of those airlines was any riskier than the other, by the way. Yyz717's insinuation that purchasing travel on AC was inherently riskier than virtually any other airline was unfounded, however.

    Again, you have received some good information within this thread. I can personally speak of AC's B763's as being one of the airline industry's best kept secrets when it comes to flying long haul. Unless someone can speak of RG's long haul service (I'm not sure, but I think your option is to fly UA for the long haul and RG only for the short anyway) I place my recommendation in the YYZ-SCL option on AC. Happy flying.
     
    Arcano
    Posts: 2299
    Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

    RE: AC Or RG To South America?

    Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:43 pm

    TR763: sorry for that, sometimes we use irony to make a point. Pleas do not take as something personal or against Brazil, because it's not. I wish we had room in Chile for 4 airlines as you have there.
    It's just a way to say things in a different way, but you are right, sometimes you can get offended. My apologizes then.
    Anyway, I mentioned VASP and GOL only recognizing the fact TAM and RG seem to be the leading airlines do Brasil, I didn't want to make funny of them. I'm not blind either, LA is not the best airline of the world, and I understand and admire SQ and EK.

    Arcano

    PS: I totally get your "word"
    PS2: who wins on sunday?  Smile
    in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
     
    EddieDude
    Posts: 6171
    Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

    RE: AC Or RG To South America?

    Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:33 pm

    LA is a benchmark that all or most Latin carriers try or at least should try to imitate. That does not mean JJ is not good; on the contrary, it is a great airline, but LA definitely has more international recognition and more prestige. In any case, MX has won 4 years in a row the World Travel Awards Central and Latin America's Leading Airline title and everything makes it seem that it will pick up the same award this year too, especially now that the F100's will be replaced with brand-new A318's and that new codeshare agreements with AA and IB are in place.

    Back to the topic of the thread, Cubsrule, I insist you should try UA ORD-EZE and LH EZE-SCL if that option is possible. That is definitely what I would do!!!
    Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
     
    User avatar
    yyz717
    Posts: 15689
    Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

    RE: AC Or RG To South America?

    Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:46 pm

    Yyz717's insinuation that purchasing travel on AC was inherently riskier than virtually any other airline was unfounded, however.

    It's not unfounded. AC could still collapse in the coming months. The investors could pull out; financial performance could deteriorate further; union ratification of the recent cuts could fail; creditors could seek and win the right to seize assets. Any of these can trigger an AC collapse.

    It is irresponsible to encourage anyone to book personal travel on AC months in advance without warning them about the true danger of an AC collapse.
    I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
     
    JJMNGR
    Posts: 924
    Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

    RE: AC Or RG To South America?

    Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:19 pm

    Gentlemen,

    LAN is a great airline! I am not saying anything that says the opposite. LAN has really more international recognition because it is part of its own development. What is Chile? A very small part of land. What is the industry? None...they have mines, fish and fruits in general and the natural market for a Chilean airline is the market abroad!!! Because these condictions LAN HAD to fly abroad!!!

    But if you consider that their B763 are old, that is is not a widebody aircraft (it is a middlebody), their configuration is tight, their flight attendants are too much professionals (they do not have the personal appeal) and they use these aircraft in most of their long haul flights and compare to a totally different situation with TAM, it is not so difficult to see that although TAM has not too much intl. routes it is better.

    Brazil itself is a country with continental dimensions. Out of GRU, you fly 4 hours to MAO and you keep in the same country! There is too much to be done internally, before extend more flights abroad. TAM´s aircraft are new, the configuration is fantastic and the crew is very well trained to serve passengers, not only to be by the book!!! This is the difference.

    Another thing is. More than 40% of the good results of LAN, comes from cargo!!! The country economy is based on the export of fish and fruits. If LAN would depend on pax in Chile, they certainly would not have it size or intl .recognition. It is a total different market and mentality, to compare with Brazil and a Brazilian carrier.

    This must not me a personal discussion. Just different point of views. LAN is a great airline but if anyone of you fly TAM, will be able to see the difference. Fly first, than compare. I flew both, that´s why I can give my opinion.

    Rgds to Eddie!!!
     
    RT514
    Posts: 399
    Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 2:11 am

    RE: AC Or RG To South America?

    Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:48 pm

    RT514: Yyz717's insinuation that purchasing travel on AC was inherently riskier than virtually any other airline was unfounded, however.

    Yyz717: It's not unfounded.




    In all seriousness, what gives you the knowledge, insight, expertise, "psychic energy" or otherwise to qualify your insinuation that AC is the riskiest airline in the world to book travel on?
    Is there a risk? Yes. Is is riskier than booking on any other airline, as you have said? Well, should a source supporting just that exist, I would certainly like to see it, please. AC as being inherently riskier than any other airline is opinion, but not provable. Therefore, I stand by my statement.

    If you can only time and time again spew such presumptuous and naive statements about AC, I am only left with the option of saying to you...
    OK, Yyz717, you win. Tossing all reasonable perameters of thought aside, I hereby sound the horn that AC is the riskiest airline in the world to book travel on.  Insane
     
    Cubsrule
    Topic Author
    Posts: 11370
    Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

    RE: AC Or RG To South America?

    Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:54 pm

    Eddie- The UA/LH connection doesn't work as the direct flight arrives at EZE at 11:45 AM and the LH flight leaves at 10:00 AM. I could, however, take AC EZE-SCL at 4:45 PM. However, I'd really like to try AC's longhaul service. All those that are not AC haters seem to love it.
    I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
     
    User avatar
    TR763
    Posts: 752
    Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2001 10:07 am

    RE: AC Or RG To South America?

    Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:05 am

    Arcano:
    Who wins on Sunday?? Well I really think Brasil is going to win  Smile , but I´m not very well informed about the Chilean team so... God knows...

    We cannot compare our airlines to SQ, EK, BA, VS, AA...
    I think that LA and JJ are doing well for our market and internationally too - although JJ has only two big int´l destinations.
    Anyway, I didn´t get OFFENDED to what you wrote, and I understand your point.
    View Large View Medium
    Click here for bigger photo!

    Photo © Carlos Borda
    View Large View Medium
    Click here for bigger photo!

    Photo © Philippe Jeandy



    All the Best!
    TR763 Big grin
    Image
    Picture by Justin Cederholm at MCO.
     
    User avatar
    yyz717
    Posts: 15689
    Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

    RE: AC Or RG To South America?

    Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:22 am

    In all seriousness, what gives you the knowledge, insight, expertise, "psychic energy" or otherwise to qualify your insinuation that AC is the riskiest airline in the world to book travel on?

    I made no such claim. I simply stated that booking with AC is risky due to a possible shutdown. This threat remains.

    When challenging what I wrote, please read it properly in the first place.
    I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
     
    AC_B777
    Posts: 724
    Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 5:15 am

    RE: AC Or RG To South America?

    Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:22 am

    So Yyz717,

    Like mentioned, if everyone were to take your advice and not fly AC, then how can it be expected that it will ever make a come back?
    AC still offers an excellent product both domestically and internationally and it is still a secure airline to fly on no matter what your claims, accusations or opinions are.
    Yes, AC could still collapse in the coming months, so could the world economy for that matter. What makes you so sure that the economy will be secure and strong this time next month, next year, tomorrow?
    I think you are wrong in your statement that AC's demise will not affect the economy. Thousands of people will lose their jobs, not only AC employees, but a vast majority of people in the travel industry in Canada alone, not to mention around the world, plus many businesses would fall.
    I would say that St. John's Airport would go bankrupt. I hardly think that a few WS and JG flights a week plus the couple of small regional airlines based in YYT are going to be able to pay the rent on a newly renovated airport. What about YYZ? Do you think WS will be able to pay the huge rent bills that will come to them as the main tenant if AC liquidates? With AC gone, the rent would skyrocket I believe for other airlines both domestic and foreign.
    Neil, I sure hope that you don't bet on AC's demise, because I bet that AC will still be around and stronger than ever before, long after you are gone!

    AC_B777
    In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
     
    FLYACYYZ
    Posts: 1820
    Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

    RE: AC Or RG To South America?

    Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:44 am

    RT514
    AC_B777
    And the other AC Supporters -

    We just have to take YYZ717's death wish for AC with a grain of salt. He has been singing the same old monotonous tune since I've joined this website. Planned celebrations have been consistently postponed. The cake is rancid, and the champagne is getting flat.

    Over the last month every flight I have worked is 100% full to capacity, whether it's an A340 to HKG, a 767-300 to YEG, or an A319 to PHX. Overbooked, denied boardings. Doesn't sound like the travelling public has been spooked or swayed, when they easily could have jumped ship and travelled on the competiton (CX/WS/HP) based on my three route examples.

    Frankly, booking AC is no more risky than flying with US/UA/DL/AA/BW/JM/OA--the list goes on and on.

    Book with confidence kids.
    Above and Beyond
     
    Cubsrule
    Topic Author
    Posts: 11370
    Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

    RE: AC Or RG To South America?

    Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:48 am

    FLYACYYZ- I'm 90% sure that's what I'll be doing... perhaps with a jaunt through YOW or YUL just because I can on the way home.
    I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
     
    Arcano
    Posts: 2299
    Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

    RE: AC Or RG To South America?

    Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:25 am

    TR763: Hey, good photos!, they look great together  Smile It reminds me some years ago, in the times LA and UC were tough competitors, that there was a newspaper report with that time of photos: one airline against the other.
    I have to recognize, I'm very afraid of the Sunday match, Brazil is always a tough soccer team!

    JJMNGR: for that smart reply I get you know all about economics.
    Fruit and fish exported by air cargo? right! US consumers eat Chilean apples carried by LA Yeah sure. Do you have any idea of international freight? have you take a look at the Chilean ports? did you know we have the port with more fright of all latam pacific coast?

    "They don't have the personal appeal"?? what do you know, how is that get measured, have you ever been onboard LA?Did you know the cargo business of LA is based on the passenger aircraft spare capacity and not in freighters?

    763 old? come on, the average of those are about 5 years, and you should take a look on their inside. They are always shining. How many 763s with PTV are around?

    Small piece of land? no industry?. Do me a favor, learn (I recommend any chapter of "Comparative Advantages" of any basic economics book), compare index (per capita of course) and then post. This small piece of land has many things to teach, we do not have as many industries as Brazil (again, "comparative advantages"), but our economy health, currency stability, transparency, poverty index, delinquency, reliability, seriousness, international reputation and financial system show you that our fish and mines do a lot more than your cars, so please, if you are not able to show how in the world TAM is better, I demand you to be respectful with my country, or criticize it base on facts, do not use big words you don't understand.

    )(Arcano
    in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
     
    Arcano
    Posts: 2299
    Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

    RE: AC Or RG To South America?

    Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:02 am

    If you want further information, you can also read this:

    Press Release: LAN CHILE Recognized as Most Competitive Airline in Latin America
    http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040517/175826_1.html

    in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346

    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Leej and 11 guests