leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:47 am

IMO the 757 is the most versatile airplane Boeing has produced. Now that the last 757s are coming off the line which aircraft duplicate its versatility and performance? The B739(X) and A321 don't seem to cut the mustard. Perhaps a version of the 7e7?

[Edited 2004-06-17 22:08:04]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:56 am

Boeing has already decided on the 3 variants of the 7E7 as follows:

1. The short range version, which seats 287 passengers in a two-class layout and has a range of 3,500nm (6,475km), and is designated B7E7-3

2. The baseline aircraft, seating 217 passengers in a three-class layout and with an 8,500nm (15,725km) range, and is designated B7E7-8

3. The stretch version, which seats 257 passegers ina three-class layout and has a range of 8,300nm (15,355km) and is designated B7E7-9


The -3 and -8 are expected to enter service in 2008, followed by the -9 in 2010 at the earliest



So I guess they are not thinking of making a variant of the 7E7 to specifically replace the 757.


Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:57 am

The A321/739 perform the job adequately in the segment of their market (roughly under 2000 mile) that the 757 overlaps with, the top end of the 757's capabilities is into the 7E7A range.

There isn't any mileage left in the 757, and the two adjacent aircraft families have its capabilities covered. So a duplicate in capacity and range isn't needed.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:21 am

At the moment it would appear to be another (albeit lower hour) 757.
Nothing really comes close.
 
Craigy
Posts: 1076
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 6:24 am

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:05 am

All of the 757 flights that I have been on could be replaced by A320/321 or 737-800/900 easily (UK to Balearics, Canaries, France, Italy).

Most of the UK-registered 757's flights could be done with the A32X or 73X, perhaps with the exception of the longer charters to Egypt and North Africa.

Once you start to get longer flights than the A32X can handle, then a wide-body, such as the 7E7 or A330 would be more desireable.

Craig.
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:13 am

Most of the UK-registered 757's flights could be done with the A32X or 73X, perhaps with the exception of the longer charters to Egypt and North Africa.

Craigy, the A320s and B737NGs can do UK-Egypt flights. Here are some airlines (from the top of my head) who operate on such routes:

1. Egyptair have a weekly A320/A321 between Sharm El Sheikh and LHR.
2. Excel have flights between LGW and Taba/Sharm El Sheik/Hurghada with B738s
3. Astreus have flights between LGW/MAN and Taba/Sharm El Sheikh

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
Craigy
Posts: 1076
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 6:24 am

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:35 am

It's late at night here and I wasn't explaining myself clearly. I have seen the Egyptair A320 at Manchester.

However, the closest comparison to a 757-200 would be the A321-200, and I am not sure it would have quite enough range to complete the trip with a full charter load.

The A.net aircraft data for the A321-200 shows 2650nm with 186 passengers. If you could fly a perfect straight route, this would be tight from Manchester to Sharm.

If the A321 was to be used as a direct replacement for the 235 seat charter 757, they would want to pack a lot more seats in it than 186 - even the A320 has 180 seats in charter configuration.

So I think it would have to be a wide body on that route if they wanted to carry reasonable charter load.

Thanks,
Craig.
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:41 am

Craigy, I hope Egyptair return to Manchester. Before 9/11 they had 2x weekly flights to Cairo (one originated in LXR). Straight after 9/11, LHR and MAN flights were combined for 2 months, and then the flights to MAN were cancelled altogether. Now they have charter flights to MAN (usually with A340) during the Hajj period. Hopefully since so many Middle Eastern carriers have/will have flights to MAN, it won't be long before MS reinstate theirs.

I guess we have to wait and see


Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:09 am

How much inertia do you think the 767 family has left? It's intersting that the aircraft is one year older, the type is still being produced (albeit -300s only for now) and demand for (2nd-hand) 767s seems to be on the up, especially in Africa and Latin America. It is strange the two production lines aren't going down at the same time...

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Guest

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:12 am

If you have market demand that would have moved you to a 757 by 2008, then a 737-800 or 900. If you are already operating a 757 in a market, odds are your demand in 2008 will dictate a short range 7E7 . One of the biggest benefits of the 7E7 is the ability to increase supply to meet demand, maintain your cost structure and offer better service for the same price, or in the case of an LCC decrease your cost structure.

[Edited 2004-06-18 02:13:34]
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:23 am

"How much inertia do you think the 767 family has left?"

Depends on whether the military versions of the 767 (tanker: 762 platform; and joint stars: 764 platform) replacements go forward. Remember CO placed an order for 762ERs ten years after any other carrier had done so.

[Edited 2004-06-18 02:25:03]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:38 am

The military order will happen. It's just a case of sorting out the financing as the previous deal was not in the best interests of the US Government and taxpayer.

There isn't a better aircraft for the job IMHO for several reasons.

There's a debate on this subject in the military forum.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
WidgetBoi
Posts: 1395
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:57 am

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:52 am

While it's not a practical replacement, I think some airlines should bring back their 727s  Big grin

jeremy
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:06 am

While it's not a practical replacement, I think some airlines should bring back their 727s


That isn't as impractical as you might think!

Some years back, a British businessman and his American partner proposed re-engineering surplus TU-104 aircraft with the JT8D and selling them on to African and other third world carriers. I'm surprised that nobody ever came up with the plans to buy surplus 727-200s and re-engine them with the Tay or something similar, then market them in countries which might not be able to fund newer types.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
rockyracoon
Posts: 1008
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:58 am

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:25 am

Another 757  Smile Like Greg said, nothing comes close



peace
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:29 am

There is no need for another 757. It's been squeezed out from above and below.

The small fraction of the market they don't manage to cover is no justification for a replacement for the 757.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8545
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:30 am

I'm surprised that nobody ever came up with the plans to buy surplus 727-200s and re-engine them with the Tay or something similar, then market them in countries which might not be able to fund newer types.

UPS re-engined their fleet with Tays... whether sucessful or not, you'd have to ask someone else.

Now that the last 757s are coming off the line which aircraft duplicate its versatility and performance? The B739(X) and A321 don't seem to cut the mustard. Perhaps a version of the 7e7?

Boeing will likely convince a good number of 757 carriers to go for the 7E7-3. Reason being, many bulk 757 opperators are also bulk 767 opperators (think DL, UA, AA, CO, ect) so as they will be ordering 7E7-8s, a 7E7-3 order would fit. The 7E7-3 is a decent jump in capacity over most 757 configurations so Boeing must provide some product beneath the 752 and above the 738/739 to fill this gap.

Short term, Boeing might start the 737-900X as a side project. This would provide many 757 carriers an ability to add-on to their existing fleets as new 757s are not avialable. Since Boeing is going to have to re-engineer the 737 platform to higher weights for the MMA project, now might be a good time to carry that military work over to the commercial sector. When the 737 is ultimatly replaced, Boeing will probably get the 180-200 passenger variant "right" and not end up with another 739 with limited market appeal.
 
DeltaMD11
Posts: 1678
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2002 4:56 am

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:21 am

I think that this topic begs the question: Is there really a TRUE replacement for the 757? Sure, the A321 and 739 can pretty much handle the loads, and can pretty much operate on the sectors that the majority of 757's operate on today. But what aircraft could ever possibly fully-fill the niche that the 757 has created for itself? The sheer power and majesty of the aircraft and it's capabality to operate with a full load on a hot and humid day in Las Vegas, or Denver. What A321 or 739 could offer non-stop transatlantic service without being weight restricted (especially on the Europe-US return where you're going against the jet stream and prevailing winds). Carriers all over the world will be knocking down both Boeing's and Airbus's door 20 years from now when the service life of their 757's is dwindling screaming for a product to directly supplant the 757 in performance and capabilities and with the way technology advances something more environmentally friendly (both in terms of emissions and use of fuel). The 757 entered uncharted waters when she came to fruition and no imitation mock-up like the 321 or 739 can be called a true replacement.

And with that nose!?! She's as cute as a button:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tim Samples
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Aaron Lupton - AirTeamImages



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Philip Preindl
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mike Jorgensen



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daryl Barber
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Thomas Millard


Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 1:20 pm

RE: What Is The Best 757 Replacement?

Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:43 am


As a side question referring to CO 762's, how many do they have in the fleet and how many did they order and have options for?
Regards
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: masgniw and 17 guests