cumulonimbus
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:13 pm

I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 1:25 am

Hello Everyone,

Please do not hang me for this but I think WN is over rated. My reason for saying this is because WN tends to be more expensive than the so called majors. I live in Baltimore which I am sure everyone knows is a WN hub and 85% of the time UA, CO, and even US are cheaper,and I personally would rather not feel like I am on the Greyhound Bus when I travel across country. People also seem to mention about WN customer service being great but I have been treated Like I was a hick many times. An example was when a flight I had been delayed I asked when they were expected to leave, The gate agent then said I quote "When we feel like boarding You". I was angry none the less. I was wondering if anyone feels the same way or has had bad experiences as I have. I welcome the same opinions as mine as well as Differing. So Please let me Hear them.

Thanx,

Mike
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 1818
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 1:56 am

Mike-

Anyone could say any of this about any airline.

Southwest is two things, consistent, and profitable. If the way they do it bothers you, go elsewhere.

You need first class treatment on a trans-con? pay for it.

George

*And what's this shit about the Greyhound bus comparison? Is the bus only for the poor and wretched? Does riding the bus really warrant everyone in this country judging you? It's a bus, not a lepers hut, get over it.
They're not handing trophies out today
 
cumulonimbus
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:13 pm

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:10 am


George,

I never said that I want first class treatment on a Transcon. I do agree That WN is consistent and of course Profitable. What I said was that they tend to be more expensive for me than the Majors.

P.S. The Shit about the Bus was that for 200$ plus I do not want to feel like I was on One!!! There is nothing wrong with the bus and I travel Greyhound For 39$ to New York Quite often Thank You!

So stop thinking I am too good for everybody!!
 
BostonGuy
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2000 5:49 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:23 am

85% of the time UA, CO, and even US are cheaper,and I personally would rather not feel like I am on the Greyhound Bus when I travel across country

Exactly how are you determining that UA, CO and US are cheaper 85% of the time? What routes specifically?

Share with us your method for determining this so we can compare results.
 
cumulonimbus
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:13 pm

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:28 am


Oh sorry about that Bostonguy. The routes are BWI, to Orlando, BWI, to Las vegas. And Bwi, to San Francisco
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:30 am

BlatantEcho writes: Anyone could say any of this about any airline.

Southwest is two things, consistent, and profitable. If the way they do it bothers you, go elsewhere.

You need first class treatment on a trans-con? pay for it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Too bad Southwest doesn't attempt to be all things to all people and squander untold million$ in attempting to buy customer loyalty. If they would only copy the legacies, they too could be posting losses of million$, or even billion$! Since they choose not to mimic the legacies, I'm sure Southwest's feelings are hurt Big grin-- all the way to bank -- by the remarks in the starter thread of this topic and countless others like it.

As for the totally worn-out issue of other airlines offering lower fares on routes where they compete with Soutwest "85% of the time," rest assured that if you ever find yourself in the position of not meeting the convoluted restrictions of the legacies' lowball fares or having to book "last minute," Southwest will offer the lowest fare 100% of the time. And speaking of worn-out fallacies, my travels on AS, HP, NW, UA and TZ have been mindful of the proverbial Greyhound bus every bit as much as my experiences with WN.


 
lanperu
Posts: 602
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 1:17 pm

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:41 am

Hmmm....I still don't get the whole thing about the bus. I guess that United Shuttle and stuff like that is NOTHING like the bus. Between 7/1-7/2 (yeah yesterday) I flew BUR-AS / KLAS), USA - Nevada">LAS-TUS-AS / KLAS), USA - Nevada">LAS-TUS not ONCE did I feel like I was on the bus. The people were just like people that I have found on AS....US....etc. The seats in this case were the new leather (I was on a 733 and 737NG) ones. I have NEVER received a meal on a 45m and 1h00m flight...EVER. So I have no complaints about the peanuts and TWO drinks that I received. Besides...who can say that they enjoy the meals that they DO receive on the majors? I think it's more of a psychological aspect of the fare that you pay....you know you won't enjoy it..yet you want it. Another thing to keep in mind is that meals that are "Food for Purchase" are an overcharge of food that you could buy outside the gate that Southwest recommends you do on the longer flights. Also the flight attendants were friendly....young and they weren't like the bus drivers that I have encountered. This is surprising considering that they had BUR-AS / KLAS), USA - Nevada">LAS-TUS-SAN ahead of them and BUR-AS / KLAS), USA - Nevada">LAS-TUS were 100% full!

I paid 238 which is CHEAP considering that America West wanted about 280...I booked it the night before too. There is a reason why you see soo many diff. types of passengers on WN and that is because there is a price for EVERYONE.....and not because they are like the "Bus". And never have I felt like I was on the bus with leather seats and a brand new 737NG..

-LanPeru
 
cumulonimbus
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:13 pm

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:42 am

@TangoBravo,

I guess you think that Jet Blue, and Air Tran are Squandering Untold Millions also. I do not only fly the so Called legacys as everyone seems to think. It is just My OPINION of WN because of several experinces I had. I am not speaking for the People who think WN is a great airline. I do think they have done alot for the aviation industry as you think but it is not my airline of choice. The Level of service ETC. that many other LLC's is much better than WN's and the so called legacys. So please Know that this Topic is not LLC's Vs Legacys.
 
smcmac32msn
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:25 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:48 am

WN isn't alway cheaper. I was checking fares for my last trip over 3 months in advance (when WN starts booking for flights). And I couldn't even get a $99 each way fare from MDW to BOI when I started checking. The closest I could come was $139/way = $278 + tax (Approx $315/person). I started checking around and ended up flying AS ORD-BOI via SEA round trip for $238/person (after tax & fees). That actually included 2 meals also on the ORD-SEA and SEA-ORD runs. So.... WN isn't ALWAYS cheaper for all flights over the "Legacy" Carriers.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:52 am

I always find cheaper prices with the majors...always. But that's just me.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:59 am

...and once again do we have to remind you WHY sometimes the majors (which by the way Southwest is one too..so we will say legacy . Big grin) are cheaper, or the same price? BECAUSE THE LCC FORCE THE LEGACY CARRIERS TO STAY LOW!!! I was doing a booking comparisons between B6, AA and WN. mostly out of STL and ORD/MDW. Consistenly, WN and AA were the same price, or 20 dollars apart with AA being cheaper. BUT, when I find a route WN didnt operate on and AA did, well guess what the price was HIGH for AA! So, no, WN isnt ALWAYS the cheapest, BUT they FORCE the legacy carriers to STAY LOW. Just because the legacy charge low fares, doesnt mean they will make money on it. WN will make money on it charging a 78 one way MDW-LAX trip. AA wont make money on that charging the same price.


also.....iv found out of STL, AA will match WN's fares, yes for even last minute, one day I checked STL-LAX for the next day trip, AA and WN were the exact same price.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
BostonGuy
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2000 5:49 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 3:06 am

Thanks for the routings... let me see what I come up with on a random check.

I can't help but think of an article in the "Wall Street Journal" last year regarding United & JetBlue. United started service nonstop from IAD to LGB in order to try to keep JetBlue from getting all the business. JetBlue could break even with around 2/3rds of a load while United couldn't even break even if the plane was at 100% capacity. Which begs the question, how smart is it, if you're in bankruptcy, to initiate service on a route if you know you can't make money? The Wall Street Journal article was scathing about UA's wisdom of doing this. Anyway, maybe UA had some sense knocked into it.
JetBlue's fare for Aug 15 on this route is $146.10 while UA's is $210.10.

Anyway, just step one in this test I decided to price a roundtrip from BWI to MCO on August 14 (return on Aug 21). Assuming one is going to Walt Disney World I wanted a morning flight down and an afternoon or evening flight back. Nonstop only. Results are:

Southwest: BWIMCO 855AM 1100AM MCOBWI 625PM 835PM
------> $209.70

USAirways: BWIMCO 845AM 1051AM MCOBWI 320PM 530PM
------> $248.00

AirTran: BWIMCO 715AM 926AM MCOBWI 325PM 535PM
------> $432.70

Ummmmm.... I'll take Southwest, please!
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 3:09 am

Cumulonimbus writes:

@TangoBravo,

I guess you think that Jet Blue, and Air Tran are Squandering Untold Millions also.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hardly! Please think it through before making such a preposterous allegation... First, my post infers with unmistakeable clarity that it is the legacies who squander untold million$ at attempting to buy customer loyalty. I don't think anyone here, most certainly myself, places jetBlue and AirTran in the category of "legacies."

On the other hand, jetBlue has everything in common with Southwest in regard to their philosophy that customer loyalty is something to be earned rather than bought (there is a huge cost difference between the two philosophies!). JetBlue differs essentially from Southwest only in offering what some see as a slightly more upscale product (IFE and pre-assigned seating). AirTran seems to be trying to ride the fence on this issue -- seems they are turning more and more toward attempting to buy customer loyalty, less and less toward earning it; although I'm nowhere near being ready to call them a legacy, they seem to be taking on more and more of the costly, self-defeating habits of the legacies that Soutwest and jetBlue have wisely avoided.
 
cumulonimbus
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:13 pm

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 3:29 am


@ TangoBravo Yeah you are right about me having to think that comment through and I hope you except my apology. I am also not very familiar with Pricing structures of airlines so I do now under stand why legacies are some times Cheaper. So thank you for your opinions and Sorry if I offended anyone.
Next Time I will do some research Before I post.

Thanx
Mike
 
ual777
Posts: 1507
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 3:36 am

Personally I can't stand flying on WN. There are 3 reasons for this. 1st and formost is their lack of perfessionalism. They often have no respect and all too often they feel that they are God's gift of comedy to the entire airplane. I am SO tired of all the stale jokes!!

2nd. I do not like their lack of seat assignments. It just sucks to have to rush to get in line so you do not get stuck in a middle seat.

3rd. One word: Uniforms.

I am so tired of their "stout" and "husky" (to be polite) FA's wearing shorts and tennis shoes all the time. That's gross. Bigger than that however, a polo shirt and shorts or khakis comes back to point #1.


Anyway, I'll take UA, US, CO, AA, and even B6 before I take WN.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
Regis
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:49 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 3:39 am

Cumulonimbus, you posted a forbidden topic on A.net: criticizing WN. In the few months I have been participating on this forum, I noticed that one is not allowed to post one negative comment about WN, lest he suffer a barrage of angry, unsubstantiated and personal attacks. You merely expressed your opinion and asked not to be hanged; yet the first reply accused you (absolutely without merit) of being a snob and talking shit. See what I am talking about? I also realized that such a reaction inexists when blasting UA, AA, DL, CO or other legacy carriers. But when it comes to reporting something bad about WN, people take it personally. No, thy shall never criticize WN.

Opening myself to being flamed here, let me enumerate a few characteristics that WN shares with Greyhound:

a) no assigned seating;

b) cattle call to board;

c) frequent stops until your destination.

(Not to say that other carriers do not resemble Greyhound as well)


[Edited 2004-07-03 20:45:59]
 
ual777
Posts: 1507
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 3:51 am

Amen Regis,

Let the attackers come!

The bottom line is: WN is a low grade airline that only makes money because they have cheap fares.(On a separate note, they only achieve this by under paying their employees.)


There I said it. To Hell with WN!
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
AA7e7
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:42 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:03 am

I definitely agree with you. They are probably the most over-rated airline in the US.
"Brave Brave Brave Sir Robin"
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:08 am

ual777- under paying their employees
I beg to differ, southwest employees is one of the most highest paid employees in the industry, with mechanics, making tons of money, F/A got a 20% raise on there paycheck i believe, which makes them the highest paid f/a in the airline business. so..you might want to re state that...

and no..i dont work for WN or fly them, I am an AA flyer, but i just came in to correct that comment.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:11 am

Thank God Regis.... When I was scrolling down the forum, I was hoping for someone to do that. Everytime somebody has something bad to say WN they get blasted, And UAL7777 is right too. WN only achieves these low fares because they under pay the employees like WAL MART.

And lastly, my three reasons why I have steered clear of WN are

a) employees seem to be not professional with all of the corny jokes and stuff.
b) I don't want to be heared into an aircraft (not to mention Boeing Big grin ) with other hoarding passengers trying to get the seat they want -- I am not cattle!
c) I usually fly for my Irish Dance competitions around the country, and I frequency and price by the time that I learn of the competition is terrible. ( The last comment isn't really showing how bad they are, just that they are bad for me)
 
n757kw
Posts: 390
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:08 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:13 am

I use to avoid Southwest. Did not like the open seating and America West usually had the same fares.

Now, I will fly Southwest. Why? Because in certain circumstances they have provided a non-rev with cheap enough one way fares to help out in a fix to get me to another airport with open seats. I have paid last minute fares from FLL-JAX, LBB-DAL, PHX-LAX and some others that were cheap compared to other carriers.

I still do not like the open seating, but I have accepted that. I have never been treated poorly by WN nor have I felt like I was on a bus. They do not always have the cheapest fares, but who cares.

WN provides a transportation service. That's it. If you want more fly someone else. Also, in 15 flights, not many, I never had a comedian crew.

N757KW

"What we've got here, is failure to communicate." from Cool Hand Luke
 
BostonGuy
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2000 5:49 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:38 am

I actually prefer a slightly more upscale experience than what WN offers.

However, several things about the post that started this thred:

1) The "85% of the time" that was featured as how often Majors have cheaper fares than WN is a off a lot. Turns out a random check on one of the 3 routings in question (BWI-MCO) WN was cheaper 100% of the time.

2) As for frequent stops until your destination... well, someone's overlooking the fact that WN not only HAS longhaul nonstop national routes (Such as MHT/PVD/BDL/ALB/ISP to Florida), but is building more of them. And, on the BWI-OAK route, although WN was $22.50 more each way (same dates as BWI-MCO, morning departures at each end) the total travel time roundtrip on the competing Legacy carriers was 6 EXTRA hours or more. Hmmm... so much for frequent stops. Seems WN gets you there faster than the legacy carriers AND makes money doing it!

3) Posting negative comments about WN is no more prohibited than posting negative comments about legacy carriers. Not attracting flames is due, in part, on how well the thread is started. Start a thread with hard facts rather than exagerations, subjective comments, falsehoods. This thread started with some very vague pronouncements regarding airfares. It would have been very helpful, and it would still be helpful, if there were specific examples with which we could compare. My initial research has turned up WN being significantly cheaper in a random test for the BWI-MCO route, and having significantly faster travel times in the BWI-OAK route.

4) Commenting on the attractiveness of flight attendants, or lack of attractiveness, is pointless and demeaning. I'm more concerned about helpfulness and attitude. And I'd rather listen to stale jokes from a WN FA than endure no service from a UA FA.

5) Airlines that beg for taxpayer bailouts or taxpayer loan guarantees and who still can't make money... well, I would be embarassed if I were them. And when I fly on them I certainly expect EXTRAORDINARY service because I've paid for it with my tax dollars AND my airline ticket. Rarely get it, though, so I gladly spend my money on a money-making LCC (with or without advance seat assignments).

Give details. Post facts! Avoid flames!
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:43 am

Bostonguy,

I've been intentionally staying out of this thread, since it's such a matter of subjectivity, but IMHO your comments (especially #3) are right in the money...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
BostonGuy
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2000 5:49 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:48 am

Thanks, OPNLguy!

I was hoping (vainly, I think) that there would be some interest in uncovering and discussing facts about fares with WN and other carriers on select routes. An apples for apples comparison and discussion.

Oh well!
 
Regis
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:49 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:51 am

The last replies confirm what I suspected: WN is an object of worship on this board.
 
BostonGuy
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2000 5:49 am

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 5:02 am

How so, Regis?

.....................................................................
 
cumulonimbus
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:13 pm

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Sun Jul 04, 2004 5:13 am

@ Bostonguy, I have an interest in uncovering and discussing the facts.
 
Lono
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:47 pm

RE: I Think WN Over Rated.

Mon Jul 05, 2004 5:41 am

WN was a paradigm shift in the industry
Herb and the gang bet that the traveling public no longer cared about crappy meals and service... Just LUV nuts, ontime departures and good service!!!
The bet paid off with them now flying 400 A/C and with them now the benchmark for other carriers to try and keep up... it is surprising how long the old guard has resisted competing one on one with W9... now it is too late and the old guard is on the ropes and are staggering!

This is a perfect example of providing what the public wants.... not what they USED to want...
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!

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