pizzaandplanes
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The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:57 am

What do you think the next worlds longest passenger flight?

I think ewr-syd http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=ewr-syd&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE= only 500 miles longer than ewr-sin. Well depends on the route.
A real man lands where he wants to
 
Phaeton
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:56 pm

The distance from ABZ (Aberdeen, Scotland) to CHC (Christchurch, New Zealand) is 11,455 miles. I don't think this would be a lucrative route.  Big thumbs up

Thomas
"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.", Winston Churchill
 
Guest

RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:01 pm

SYD-EWR is fairly unlikely. Even the 772LR would struggle to meet that year round in both directions.

I think the next big one would be PPT-CDG if AF go for the 772LR or TN go for the A345 but that might be too long for an A345.
 
desertjets
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:01 pm

Don't rule out the lucrative sheep sheerers market between Scotland and the south island of New Zealand.


I think most have discussed and agreed that EWR-SYD is still currently beyond the range that any current airliner could profitably operate. LHR-SYD is the only other route that would be possibly technically feasible and have a sizeable demand for.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
elcapi1980
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:05 pm

hellooo everyone....

what about LHR to SYD .....9184.2nm...not bad....about 19hours...and this is route will do good to my opinion......
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:56 pm

BR are currently considering TPE-PTY with their 772LRs

...this would become the world's longest
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
COTXDFW777AA
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:58 pm

JFK-LGA..........................the long way around.
Texas- it's like a whole different country!
 
ltbewr
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:04 am

An EWR-SYD non-stop would sure beat having to change a/c in LAX! I am quite sure CO with their great connecting flights into EWR could pull it off (NYC and Northeast USA source of pax). But there are several problems with this idea. The current longest non-stops are ones where there are enough 1st/Biz pax to make it profitable. Out of current LAX hub for flights to SYD, there is a much larger base of premium pax. To do this route would requre a set up like the new SQ EWR-SIN flight, were are many fewer seats than normal A345's due to the need for more room per pax and dealing with the freight/weight issues. With that situation, could there be enough seats that could get high enough fares so an airline could make money? You would have to use a 4 engine a/c on this route due to the ETOPS issues over the Pacific Ocean, so limited to A345 or 747-400's with high efficiency engines and possibly additional fuel tanks. You also may be pushing limits as to fight and cabin crew hours on duty.
 
bistro1200
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:11 am

>>You would have to use a 4 engine a/c on this route due to the ETOPS issues over the Pacific Ocean, so limited to A345 or 747-400's with high efficiency engines and possibly additional fuel tanks.<<
---
No, the route could be operated non-ETOPS. Of course, all airports would have to be suitable. Remember United operated LAX-AKL on a 777, the segment from NZ to Australia is not a problem. The largest area of non-ETOPS water is south of airway G575 around 5N 130W. North of that would work.
Measure to the millimeter, mark with a crayon, cut with an axe.
 
Guest

RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:15 am

BR are currently considering TPE-PTY with their 772LRs

...this would become the world's longest


And the worlds most unprofitable!

hahahahahahahha
 
airbazar
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:16 am

When I read the original question I didn't think the answer would have to be conditional on current available technology. So my answer is that the next obvious longest flight will be LHR-SYD, once there is an aircraft capable of doing this route without major load constraints. I think we're only about 5-10 years away from having such an aircraft.
 
elcapi1980
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:24 am

And the worlds most unprofitable!

hahahahahahahha
-------------------------

how do you know this?.....have you made any kind of marketing research to say that......
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:42 am

how do you know this?

simple, he doesn't




.....have you made any kind of marketing research to say that

Apparently not. If he had, he'd know WHY they're considering starting said route.  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
elcapi1980
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:03 am

In addition to my response...this route will be benefit not only for central america passenger, but for those people traveling To/From S. america....do you know how many stops do you have to make to travel to : Rio,Bogota, Buenos Aires, Lima, Caracas, Quito, in addition to Central American, and the Caribbean from Tpe.....With Copa's hub in Panama, most of this destinations can be convered with only one stop without staying overnight in Lax.Moreover, this will avoid the transit to US which visa is required....Also passenger traveling from these destination are used to pay USD1700+ for R/T tickets...which one of the highest that I 've ever paid(coach/ Restricted fare)
I love you barranquilla!!!!!
 
elcapi1980
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:40 am

Just for curiosity...is Copa in good shape to place an order of 777-LR....
maybe with Continental's help?..any comments...
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:06 am

If CO can barely justify the 772LR, why on Earth Copa?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MoneyShot
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:16 am

"The largest area of non-ETOPS water is south of airway G575 around 5N 130W."

Where is this exactly or should I say what two geographical points or diversion airports does this refer to. Also, it is my understanding that ETOPS also exists over any land that lacks diversion airports. Aside from maybe Siberia or some of Canada, where else is there over land ETOPS requirements.
 
Guest

RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:16 am

I checked the traffic figures for Panama City about a month ago, which was somewhat lame (1000 total per day including both en- and deplanement) and prompted my response. Turns out there is more than one airport but the other one (PTY) doesn't have a website  Nuts, only PFN, which isnt the primary one.

Anyway despite the political connections can you really see an 18 hour (Which will deter some PAX) service TPA-PTY when BR no longer offers even TPE-LAX-PTY. Maybe a weekly service at the most but that's somewhat inflexible.

And in regard to your S.Am connections, EK will be starting up in South America soon, Save youself 1000nm's and go via DXB.
 
elcapi1980
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:20 am

If CO can barely justify the 772LR, why on Earth Copa?

--------------------------
I don't know , that why I asked,,,,

also, why not? Wasn't Copa trying to adquired Avianca.....

Don't you need to be financially ok to to buy an airline...
I love you barranquilla!!!!!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:38 am

I checked the traffic figures for Panama City about a month ago, which was somewhat lame (1000 total per day including both en- and deplanement) and prompted my response. Turns out there is more than one airport but the other one (PTY) doesn't have a website , only PFN, which isnt the primary one.

Anyway despite the political connections can you really see an 18 hour (Which will deter some PAX) service TPA-PTY when BR no longer offers even TPE-LAX-PTY. Maybe a weekly service at the most but that's somewhat inflexible.



...you're still completely off target.

Would you like to wander in the dark a few posts more, or shall I explain it to you now?  Nuts
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
elcapi1980
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:45 am

And in regard to your S.Am connections, EK will be starting up in South America soon, Save youself 1000nm's and go via DXB.
-------------------------------------------------------------
you are correct....you will save 987nm , but if you are traveling to Brazil, Argentina, and Chile only. What about the others?....Colombia, Veneluela, Peru, Ecuator, and Bolivia.....
I love you barranquilla!!!!!
 
SlamClick
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:49 am

Without a doubt, the seriously underserved Lima Peru to Can Tho Vietnam (11800sm)

Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
MAH4546
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:09 am

I checked the traffic figures for Panama City about a month ago, which was somewhat lame (1000 total per day including both en- and deplanement) and prompted my response. Turns out there is more than one airport but the other one (PTY) doesn't have a website , only PFN, which isnt the primary one.

I hope you know PFN is in Panama City, Florida.

PTY sees probably about 1,000 emplanements per day to Miami alone. It's a busy airport, I believe the busiest in Central America.

a.
 
SIunitsrule
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:13 am

Just to clarify: PFN is in Northwest Florida. PTY is in the Republic of Panama.
PTY does not have a website (which I greatly lament). There is a site from Aeronautica (the FAA equivalent of Panama) about PTY but it only has very basic data (picture, coordinates, radio info, runway length and resistance, and no pax data) and it is in Spanish. In case you're interested, http://www.aeronautica.gob.pa/aeropuertos/Tocumen.htm. There is some market for the TPE-PTY route. I personally know a couple of people who do it regularly (they do PTY-MIA-LAX-TPE and backwards). It is possible, however, to do PTY-LAX-TPE). I guess it's more expensive, though...

Regards!
Everything is relative, so be mindful of your references...
 
Guest

RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:27 am

 Embarrassment  Embarrassment  Embarrassment  Embarrassment  Embarrassment  Embarrassment  Embarrassment

God, cant you yanks think of some original names for your cities!

Panama City
Manchester
York
Frecking London for crap sake

It would save a lot of confusion.

Nethertheless i would still put £50 on the 772LR's serving NYC and LHR and not TPY direct.
 
dutchjet
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:51 am

I think that Thai already has announced that it will fly JFK-Bangkok nonstop with its A345s.....another ultra-long range connection.

Regarding the quite humorous discussion concerning the very popular Taipei-Panama City route, the rumors concerning that route have to do with Evergreen, the airline is part of a very, very large global shipping and logistics company. I think that I remember reading (and I could be wrong, so be kind) that Evergreen had or is considering connecting Taipei and Panama City for these business needs as they maintain large operations in both cities. They also move an awful lot of freight by many methods, including air, around the world. I really cannot remember if a passenger/combi or cargo flight was considered.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:22 am

Nethertheless i would still put £50 on the 772LR's serving NYC and LHR and not TPY direct.

Actually, I'd bet on all three at some point or other.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
EVA744
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:31 am

Roberta- ignorance is bliss, apparently.

Anyway, PTY is a good transit freight hub. EVA (part of a frieght family) is a shipping company, much business is done through the Panama Canal. Its an important hub for switching, sorting, and maintaining service, Crew rest area (ships) and an integral part of the network.

EVA744
 
Espion007
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:35 am

why not IAD-SYD. its 9743mi which is only 290 miles further than sin-ewr.Can the 777-200L do that?
Snakes on a Plane!
 
elcapi1980
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:42 am

the distance is 8462nm betwen IAD and SYD....the range for the 777-LR is 8900nm....so, that will be a yes.....
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:55 am

the range for the 777-LR is 8900nm

...try 9280nm
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
hpB737100
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:38 am

Could the A345 easily do EWR to SYD? What is the range for the A345?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:01 am

the distance is 8462nm betwen IAD and SYD....the range for the 777-LR is 8900nm....so, that will be a yes.....

Don't forget about winds and ETOPS requirements... You can't always fly in a straight line.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 6:50 am

Could the A345 easily do EWR to SYD?

Easily? How about not at all  Laugh out loud
(with any conceivable payload)




What is the range for the A345?

A good bit less than the 772LR's will be (8650nm)




Don't forget about winds and ETOPS requirements...

Who's forgetting?  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
antares
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:14 am

This 'mantra' about you need to have enough first or business class passengers to make a long haul (or any haul) flight profitable is starting to look really silly.

It isn't the 10-14 first class passengers or the 50 business class passengers that guarantee the viability of a long haul Qantas 744 , the 330 odd economy passengers are damned important too!

The most profitable airlines in the world, Jetblue, Ryanair and Virgin Blue, don't have any first or business class seats. And they in general terms make 10 times as much money per dollar sold than multi class carriers or the case of US majors, infinately more money, since the majors are in loss.

Incidentally there is an ETOPS-similar requirement for operations over Tibet on L888 as flown by Qantas apparently eastbound only. You need to carry enough oxygen to deal with prolonged cabin depressurisation because of the high altitude terrain and big twin do not currently fly that route because single engine cruise gets you down in the yak shit and glaciers real quick.

I believe that the small twins that fly to airports like Lhasa have some very interesesting route planning issues.
 
Guest

RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:42 am

And they in general terms make 10 times as much money per dollar sold than multi class carriers or the case of US majors, infinately more money, since the majors are in loss.


actually Infinity mutliplied by a negatice value results in the number forever getting smaller.

 Big thumbs up
 
Tasha
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:05 pm

I don't know about you all... but I get a little stircrazy after sitting in an aircraft for more than 8 - 9 hours.

Everyone here is talking of the worlds longest flights.... how about the worlds most unprofitable route...

Gulfport - Mobile, a mere 50 miles. Now if you could do it daily with a 744!  Big grin

Tasha  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: The Next Worlds Longest Flight?

Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:25 am

the 330 odd economy passengers are damned important too!

To a limited degree only...

...remember, they're the most price-sensitive and the least-likely to repeat business (from a financial perspective). Hence, they're also of least relative concern.
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