LHSebi
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Europe To Australia Business Class

Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:07 pm

Hello all,
Well, I have a little issue here I was hoping some frequent fliers (or others) could give me a hand with. I am planning on flying to Brisbane (BNE) in mid-July from DUS, and I want to take business. Options for me include Lufthansa, Singapore Airlines, Qantas, British Airways, etc. Could any knowledgable people please give some personal information on which business is the best, when I should buy the ticket to get the best deals (I have heard that many airlines bring business offers for the summer, but I don't know when), and which airline I should take that would give the best service?

I have looked for offers right now, and the cheapest is Emirates for 2800€, and the others go up from there. Any advice is appreciated!

Sebastian
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NumberTwelve
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:39 pm

Hi, Sebastian,
am going to BNE in June, 2005 - but in Eco Class for 899 Euro incl. Taxes. Flew to BNE in Sep, 2002 with QF in Business Class, it was about 2,900 incl. Taxes but no Low Season. QF at the moment is about 3,200 - MH has special low fares, called "Early Bird", also Royal Brunei has special rate. Both, Royal Brunei and MH have about same price level (must be about 2,800).
QF wanted to install beds into Busi class but not yet on FRA-BNE - also QF offers Rail&Fly for free which is good alternative to flight for QDU-FRA. MH and Royal Brunei charge for Rail&Fly, EK flies directly from DUS (ok, via DXB, but you have to change anyway).

I always was thinking about fastest travel time (only 1 stop), but I changed my mind: maybe better 2 stops (EK and Royal Brunei) and little walk at the airport, but the 1-stop with QF via SIN is fine too - in Business Class. As much as I know LH and SQ don't offer special rates in Busi.

I prefer searching on airlines' homepage or via www.mcflight.de - and by the way: if you want to fly with KE: they have an overnight in SEL but are cheaper  Wink/being sarcastic
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:01 am

LHSebi

I always fly QF or BA when I fly LHR-SYD. My preferred carrier is QF though being an Australian who has lived in London for 10 years I could be a little biased in their favour. Getting on a QF 744 really reminds me I am visiting home! I do the trip twice a year and always First as my company pays.

Anyway, the earlier you buy your ticket the more likely you'll get a better deal. QF & BA from LHR on a one-stop basis are usually a little more expensive from my experience than other carriers such as SQ, whose product is excellent. If I were you I'd choose a carrier you haven't been on before and even EK sounds ok especially if you could get the A345 DXB-SYD and connect to BNE. Have a great time booking the trip and enjoy the LOEG as we expats call it!

Regards

PANAM_DC10
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NumberTwelve
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:05 am

Aaaah, Seb, I forgot: when you buy QF business class, try to get a seat in upper Deck - row 16 is great  Wink/being sarcastic.
I was sitting in 16 K and it was very comfortable.
Unfortunately there are no more 767 from SIN to BNE, QF has 1-2-2 configuration and the single seat at window and aisle is cool.
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LHSebi
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:14 am

Thanks to all for the replies so far! Do you think that any offers will still come later? Or should I book now?

Also, is that time period low season? (mid july)

Thanks for any more info!

Sebastian
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LHSebi
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:15 am

Sorry, forgot to add that if anyone knows whether or not a certain day of the week is cheaper than another? I am fairly lenient for the flights, so I could pick the cheapest day. Thanks,

Sebastian
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NumberTwelve
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:19 am

Hi, Seb, it's the best to go to a travel agency and check online.
But my travel time (june) is totally low season. I guess you will be travelling during school holidays which is minimum medium season, high season is in (German) winter.
Don't wait too long - QF had the 899 EUR offer till end of December but extended booking time. But you never know!

You want to be LH F/o soon, so I think you are not corpulent. And if you are less than 1,80 m long, also Eco is good.
As long as an airline has no bed in it's Busi class, I would fly Eco because 20 hrs sitting hurts anyway.
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LHSebi
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:22 am

As long as an airline has no bed in it's Busi class, I would fly Eco because 20 hrs sitting hurts anyway.

Doesn't SIA have spacebeds in Business class?

What about KLM/AF...I tried looking at their website(s), but I can only seem to get the outbound flight, but not the return one...odd.

Sebastian
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NumberTwelve
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:23 am

SIA has beds but as much as I know they don't have special offers in Business, Seb.

What will you do in BNE? Holidays? Sightseeing? It's a great place to live!
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LHSebi
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:29 am

Thanks for the info so far!

I am going for a year as an exchange program from my university  Smile.

About the special SIA offers, I went to a travel agent the other day, and he told me that I should perhaps wait and see if they might bring out special offers around Feb...

Maybe I should have mentioned that I would like to fly Star Alliance, since I have miles that I would like to collect/spend  Smile.

Sebastian
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:34 am

As long as an airline has no bed in it's Busi class, I would fly Eco because 20 hrs sitting hurts anyway.

NumberTwelve has a good point. If you are going to be spending a lot for a Business class fare at least ensure you get the best amenities and value for money. Some on this Forum are obsessed with PTV's etc etc but if you're going Biz then at least try for a carrier which provides the most inflight amenities. As for any day of the week being cheaper I'm not too sure but from my experiences trying to fly out of LHR on a Friday on QF or BA to SYD or MEL can be very hard as the flights are packed. Maybe a mid week flight would be better.

Regards

PANAM_DC10
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johnnybgoode
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:37 am

BNE is a brilliant city! Worked there for six months last year. flew there as well in business class, albeit on a stand-by ticket and switching planes and airlines in SIN. FRASIN LH and then SINBNE QF (that was not in Business, however).

cheers
daniel
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LHSebi
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:39 am

Thanks PanAm,
Yes, I do agree with NumberTwelve. That is why I came here for help too  Smile. World Traveller with BA does have beds, right? I suppose I could also try Virgin in UC through Sydney, or does this sound like a bad idea?

Sebastian
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NumberTwelve
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:49 am

Seb, there are lots of opinions - an Australian friend of mine always says: no stopover because the pain should stop after 22 hrs and not after 12+7 hours, other people try to fly during the week because of the (possibly) empty seats.
I for myself try to fly with an airline that offers seat reservations in advance. And I try to "fight" for the seats I want to have.
You will have fun with the seat reservation from SIN to BNE, for sure. QF changes equipment a lot. So when you fly with QF, you only can be sure that FRA-SIN is a 744.
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LHSebi
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:57 am

Hmm...what if I would book a flight on the weekend I know would be relatively full, hope they overbook, and then agree to get bumped to first for a later flight?  Big thumbs up

Does someone know the answer to whether or not BA has beds in business, and whether going with Virgin UC through Sydney would be a clever/cheaper move? Thanks,

Sebastian
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NumberTwelve
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:13 am

Seb, I was in same position as you 3 years ago - wanted to fly to BNE in business class and checked out
QF
SQ
CX
Royal Brunei
EK ...

If I would fly Business Class again (which I don't do because of the cost / comfort relation) I would fly Royal Brunei, because they have new interieur in their planes
http://www.royal-brunei.de/
and great travel times, departure FRA early afternoon, for me much better than a midnight departure.

Depends if you can sleep in the plane, depends if you are flexible with day of travel (RBA only flies once a week from BNE to FRA).
I don't care about FF programs because I never know the offer for next time - maybe I can safe so much money with another airline that FF is not interesting for me.

CI f.e. has a "better" Eco class from Amsterdam, also good possibility from QDU because CI has free train tickets from Germany to Amsterdam ("Rail&Fly Amsterdam, http://www.bahn.de/bahnflug .

Very hard to give you a tip - but would you want to fly to LHR to get a little better Eco Class for the trip to SIN? And the trip from SIN to BNE is BA Codeshare with QF anyway.

[Edited 2005-01-08 17:17:38]
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fbgdavidson
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:15 am

Does someone know the answer to whether or not BA has beds in business

Yes. Only a very select number of routes do not have beds in BA J

BA fly via SIN or BKK and the Club World bed is fine if you are around 6ft. I'm 5ft 11in and have slept fine on all two dozen or so long flights I've done in Club World. One thing to remember is to consider how you sleep. I curl up a little when I sleep so have plenty of room in CW although I know people of similar height who stretch out and so find it more uncomfortable.

If you are looking for cheap fares try booking BA ex-Warsaw (I am aware it is in Poland), I've never done it myself but have heard the prices are cheap, especially as fares are (or were) tied to the US$

If you have any questions about Club World service I'll be happy to answer any questions.



[Edited 2005-01-08 17:16:51]
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LHSebi
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:30 am

Fbgdavidson,
Thanks for the reply. How do you mean to book BA ex-Warsaw? BA would sound pretty good, since I have heard their business product is fairly good. Do you know if BA offers special Business deals at some point for the summer? Any day of the week particularly inexpensive? Thanks.

NumberTwelve,
I am ready to depart from any major airport in Europe for the cheapest flight (ie: AMS, FRA, LHR, etc). I am however trying to get the best business class deal, but I must of course keep Economy in mind in case nothing good shows up  Big grin.

Sebastian
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fbgdavidson
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:04 am

How do you mean to book BA ex-Warsaw?

Book the flights from the regional BA website in Poland http://www.britishairways.com/travel/home/public/en_pl and fly WAW-LHR-SIN/BKK-SYD on BA

I wrote a fairly detailed report on LHR-SFO on BA Club World. If you haven't flown it before its possibly worth a read.
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/50479/ I can answer other questions and supply photos of Terminal 4 lounges where SYD flights leave from if interested

If you want a few more photos then try http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=3713080093 Username and Password: flyertalk (You'll have to skim through my holidays snaps to see most of it though)
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daumueller
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:23 am

what do you think of flying LH via MUC to BKK (new business class, just came back yesterday, pretty nice) and then continue on OS or TG to Sydney?

cheers,

ben
 
LHSebi
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:47 am

Ben,
Yes, that would be another good possibility. The downside would be that I think I have enough miles for an upgrade, which I couldn't use if I fly in the new business class, since a first doesn't exist  Big grin.

Sebastian
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NumberTwelve
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:53 am

Hi, Ben,
I think one of the best reasons for a 16-20 years old person is the price. And as much as I see, 2,500 EUR plus taxes is the cheapest you can get. LH/SQ starts with about 3,300 EUR.
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FlySSC
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:54 am

LHSebi,

What about AF on CDG-SIN (B773ER) + QF on SIN-BNE.
Both flights are codeshare AF/QF. Fast and easy connection at SIN (same terminal - a/c parked next to each others ).
A good opportunity to fly the brand new B777-300ER with the new Business Class.


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cedarjet
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:03 am

Cathay Pacific's J class service is exceptional. The seats don't quite go flat but they are incredibly comfortable. The service is the best in the air and the food is fab. On demand IFE has more than 50 movies, plus complete concerts by bands, TV specials, you name it.

BA's beds are great. Qantas' beds are awful (they go "flat" in the sense that the backrest, bumrest and footrest line up, however not in line with the floor, the whole contraption angles down slightly and you feel as though you're gonna slide off). IFE on both these airlines is a disgrace.

I also recommend Emirates and Singapore.
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LHSebi
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:54 am

FLYSSC,
That is another alternative. I was already checking on both KLM's and Air France's websites for prices/timetables, but nothing shows up! I try to enter CDG-SYD in the booking system of http://www.airfrance.de/, and nothing shows up! It says it can't find a flight for the time period of the entered return date. I was thinking of returning sometime at the end of november...Any ideas what may be happening? I also tried to see if I could book a flight with some random dates, and the 773 direct flight to Sydney didn't show up as an alternative...only the 744/777 flights over Singapore.

Thanks for any help,

Sebastian
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6thfreedom
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:19 am

since u are flying out of DUS, EK is the best suggestion, as they have direct flights from there.

EK - DUS-DXB/DXB-SIN-BNE.
2 stops, 1 transfer.

whichever flight u take this will be the case, as u will have to connect from DUS to somewhere... FRA, MUC, LHR, CDG etc..
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:08 am

EK business class on the planes they use to Brisbane is a disgrace, i wouldn't pay any more than an economy fare for EK, which is why it's probably the cheaper of the lot.

if you want the real deal in J class then you should fly JA!, they use the 744 which has the shell flat seats, the service is miles ahead of any of the carriers mentioned above, and the food is sensational. i often fly from Perth to Sydney just to use JAL to Europe. you also get a free night in Tokyo on the return to Europe.

http://www.jal.co.jp/en/inflight/inter/executive/shellflat/
 
ozglobal
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:31 am

LHSebi,

I've done CDG to Australia about twice a year for 5 years now.

i) Beware of heavily discounted J class fares until you have verified the cabin product, per Qantas007's comments above. EK's new J product looks very good and connections to DUS make it attractive, but check and double check a/c type and cabin layout.

ii) My J class preferences are, in this order:
a) BA: the only horizontal flat J class bed (great product, though some winge about the 'hardness' of the bed)
b) QF and SQ have similar Sky / Space beds: large and close to horizontal (I just slept 9 hours SIN to CDG on Monday with SQ)
c) CX : I don't follow Cedarjet's comparison of QF vs CX; I've flown both in their new J class products and QF's is larger, more private and closer to horizontal than CX's. Individual body types can make a difference in these questions. CX's is the one that make's me feel like I'm sliding down a bit.
d) AF/QF: Probably a good choice with the new AF J class, but it looks to be the same seat as CX's, so see my comment above.

Best fare from CDG I've seen is SQ 3650 euro (with Spacebed)

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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:54 am

Cheapest business class Euope-Australia deals are usually as follows:

China Airlines: AMS-TPE-SYD
Royal Brunei: FRA-BWN-BNE
Vietnam Airlines: CDG-SGN-SYD

You will need to buy a separate economy ticket DUS-AMS/FRA/CDG and/or a separate QF/VJ SYD-BNE-SYD ticket. However, the savings should be substantial.

Agree above- EK business class on 772/773 definately not worth the money.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:26 am

the new EK product is not used to BNE from DXB, it's still the old 773 in the old config, so if you want to waste good money on crap then that's up to you. the A343 is used from DUS-DXB when your wanting to travel and that is with the old style seating, you won't get the new J class on EK unless you fly to Syd or Mel on the 345.

you can take China Airlines to BNE, Korean Air is an option also, but i would seriously look at JAL.
 
LHSebi
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:05 am

From your comments, I take it that if I fly DUS-DXB-SYD-BNE, I would get the 345 with a "good" and "worth-the-money" business class? Thanks!

Sebastian
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QANTAS077
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:29 am

you'd only get the new J class on the DXB-SYD nonstop flight, that exclusive new J class is only fitted on the A345 and you'll get that only on DXB-SYD, the 345 isn't used to DUS. not sure if the price would remain the same though... from what i've been able to see you won't get the A345 for that price, it'll be the 773.

the 345 is going to cost you considerably more than the price you've been quoted by EK ex DUS. just did a search and to fly DUS-DXB-SYD will cost you 6000 euro, that will ensure your on the nonstop DXB-SYD. the price you have is for the 773 service only via BKK.

[Edited 2005-01-09 03:32:27]
 
LHSebi
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:21 pm

Actually, the price I quoted is the 773 service from DXB direct to BNE! Would that change anything with the business class in question? Thanks,

Sebastian
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QANTAS077
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:51 pm

the business class as i stated at reply 29 if you read it, the 773 is OLD CONFIG and the OLD PRODUCT, you will only get the new product on the A345, which is showing as 7000euro for J class.

there are no direct flights to BNE from DXB, they stop in Singapore enroute to BNE, so i make it very clear, the new product is only available on the Airbus A340-500 from Dubai-Sydney/Melbourne nonstop, for which you will pay 7000 euro for. the price your quoted is for the old style cabin on the 773 1 stop via Sin to Bne. and to be honest it's not worth wasting the money on that old product!

try JAL!

[Edited 2005-01-09 11:53:43]
 
QantasHeavy
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:34 pm

One year ago I would have had to say BA, but now the new Qantas SkyBeds are here on all LHR-SIN/BKK/HKG-MEL/SYD flights. They are nice!

Cathay, Singapore and Emirates won't likely have the Premium (sleeper) seats to Brisbane or Perth. Don't fall for that trick!

Make sure you get a QF flight to MEL or SYD, unless you can hop the new A333 to BNE (SkyBeds) -- DON'T get the 743 from SIN to BNE or you'll get the "Dream Time" seats... where (if you sleep!) you'll only dream about having a SkyBed!!!

I fly the Kangaroo route all the time -- trust me -- to Brisbane QF/BA is the way to go. Syd or Mel?, well I'd have to say Cathay, Singapore and Emirates also have nice products for business -- although with EK it's ONLY on the 345, which you'd probably NOT get from Europe to DXB.
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:07 pm

@6thfreedom: "...since u are flying out of DUS, EK is the best suggestion, as they have direct flights from there.

EK - DUS-DXB/DXB-SIN-BNE.
2 stops, 1 transfer."

I disagree, 6thfreedom - there is a great train connection from QDU to FRA, travel time is about 90 minutes, less travel time than TYO-NRT . And in FRA you have the best choices. Train ride is, when Seb is flying with QF, included in the air fare. Unfortunately this train opportunity doesn't appear in airlines CRSes (except TP, AA and NH). We call it "Rail&Fly" and it is very popular, unfortunately not well known in other countries than Germany.
So the 90 minutes train ride QDU-FRA is not too much when there are dozends of airlines are flying from FRA to that direction, also AMS departure is a great possibility from QDU, which is about 2 hrs - and he can get QDU-AMS for free with f.e. CI.
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LHSebi
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RE: Europe To Australia Business Class

Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:28 am

Indeed, as NumberTwelve mentioned, I have no problem whatsoever in flying/taking the train to another city in order to connect to a less expensive flight (or a more convenient one for that matter!). Thanks to everyone so far,

Sebastian
I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.

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