rjpieces
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Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:09 am

Just wondering which airport most Europeans prefer to use. Seeing that most European airlines have their flagship services to JFK, does this influence your choice? Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Edited 2005-01-15 19:11:25]
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Leskova
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RE: Europeans:

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:14 am

What do you consider "flagship services"? At the moment, I don't recall any airline "over here" marketing their services to JFK any differently than their services to NRT, SIN, LAX, SFO, GRU, SCL or anywhere else...

As for your question - favorite airport where? Just in NYC? Or anywhere?

Regards,
Frank

P.S.: Wouldn't this be better placed in "Polls & Prefs"?

Edited: I see you've clarified the Topic - in that case, I can only say EWR... I've not flown into JFK that often these past years, but when I was there, it really didn't seem all that pleasant. And while EWR really isn't all that great either, it sure beats JFK.

[Edited 2005-01-15 19:20:04]
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NoUFO
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:20 am

Definitely EWR; it's closer to Manhattan.
As far as I know, European carriers would love to fly into EWR more often but can't.
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columba
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:21 am

EWR, but that is because my family lives in New Jersey and it is much easier for them to pick us up there.
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Sjoerd
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:26 am

Definately JFK for the easy subway connection (A-trains), I always get of the subway just before the Brooklyn Bridge, and then walk over it into Manhattan.

Also this airport feels more international.

Sjoerd
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Newark777
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:27 am

EWR, so I can spot more international heavies there.  Big grin

Most people don't realize how easy it is to get to midtown Manhattan from EWR. Just take AirTrain to the train station and hop on NJ Transit or Amtrak. (My suggestion, go Nj Transit; they are a lot cheaper and trains run more frequently. Just my $.02  Smile).

Harry
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AMS
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:29 am

I prefer JFK, since I have friends living in Jamaica Queens.....however EWR is also a nice airport, especially when making connections.

Again personally I like JFK better because of the special International atmosphere!

Regards,
AMS
 
by188b
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:31 am

JFK, i love the old TWA terminal!
next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
 
Newark777
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:33 am

Again personally I like JFK better because of the special International atmosphere!

That is true, I really get the feeling it's a big international gateway when I go to JFK. When I go to EWR, it just feels like another airport that happens to serve a lot of international traffic, probably because of the large CO presence. Either that or I just go there too much.  Laugh out loud

Harry
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rjpieces
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:36 am

EWR, so I can spot more international heavies there.

Are you joking?

As far as I know, European carriers would love to fly into EWR more often but can't.

Is that why they continue to put the higher yielding aircraft on the JFK runs with more frequencies?
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Newark777
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:38 am

Why would I be joking?  Confused

Harry
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STT757
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:40 am

"Is that why they continue to put the higher yielding aircraft on the JFK runs with more frequencies?"

What about Lufthansa's all business class service between EWR and Dusseldorf and Munich?..

Or Swiss's all Business class service to Zurich?

Or..

Singapore Air's Flagship International route, EWR-SIN (Longest Nonstop in the World) with their expanded Business class.


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[Edited 2005-01-15 19:44:19]
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rjpieces
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:51 am

Why would I be joking?

Simple. It is a fact that JFK has more international heavies than JFK. Thus, your statement about liking EWR because you can watch more international heavies is contradictory.

What about Lufthansa's all business class service between EWR and Dusseldorf and Munich?..

Or Swiss's all Business class service to Zurich?


Simple. There is a demand for those speciality services; I would wager there is demand for it on some domestic routes even. However, most of those speciality services are complemented by a First Class product into JFK.

If you compare major European carriers service JFK vs EWR, who wins STT?

Singapore Air's Flagship International route, EWR-SIN (Longest Nonstop in the World) with their expanded Business class.

STT, you know as well as I do why this flight goes to EWR. SQ was operating EWR-AMS-SIN and JFK-FRA-SIN. JFK-FRA-SIN was higher yielding and making more money, so they decided to scrap EWR-AMS-SIN and replace it with the nonstop. EWR got the flight because the JFK flight was doing so well!
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flyguy1
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:52 am

Well the proof is in the #s
JFK-LHR 20x per day
EWR-LHR 5x per day (+CO to LGW)
JFK-CDG 9x per day
EWR- CDG 4x per day
JFK-FRA 5x per day
EWR-FRA 2x per day
also:
JFK-NRT 6x per day
EWR-NRT 1x per day
These are all for summer 2005, peak day operations.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
tommy767
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:53 am

EWR is home for me, but in a way so is JFK (living in NJ.)

EWR is much more convienient and has come a hell of a long way over the past five years. However most terminals at JFK are architectural marvels. AT Kennedy you have the TWA terminal, terminal 7, the worldport, the new international terminal, and soon the new AA terminal.

I rank EWR and JFK pretty high, but I REALLY cannot stand LGA.
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Newark777
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:55 am

Simple. It is a fact that JFK has more international heavies than JFK. Thus, your statement about liking EWR because you can watch more international heavies is contradictory

I was implying that more international heavies would fly into EWR than there are now if it became a more popular destination. I was not disputing the fact that JFK has more heavies.

Harry
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flyguy1
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:59 am

LGA is very inconvenient to get to. Its close to Manhattan, though lacks public transportation to the terminals.
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rjpieces
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:09 am

LGA is very inconvenient to get to.

For businessmen who work in Manhattan, LGA is the most convenient airport. And let's not forget who gives the airlines the most money....
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
flybmi330
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:10 am

Flyguy1
LGA is certainly convenient for Manhattan, though lacks any routes to Europe !!!
 
flyguy1
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:11 am

I know LGA is close to Manhattan, but inconvneient for those who want to take public transportation.
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STT757
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:12 am

"STT, you know as well as I do why this flight goes to EWR. SQ was operating EWR-AMS-SIN and JFK-FRA-SIN. JFK-FRA-SIN was higher yielding and making more money, so they decided to scrap EWR-AMS-SIN and replace it with the nonstop. EWR got the flight because the JFK flight was doing so well!"

The only place I've seen that comment is here on these boards, and that comment was made by Concordeboy. Now while I enjoy his posts, what basis did he come up with that?.. I've never seen anything published..

Listen we keep retreading the same topic:

Yes JFK gets more International Airlines, they are in the top tier with MIA and LAX. However EWR is in the next tier with ORD and SFO, EWR gets more of the Business traffic. JFK caters to alot of tourists from Europe to Manhattan and immgrants visiting Queens/Brooklyn etc.. From Russia, Guyanna, Trinidad, Hati, Africa etc..

However there are alot of International service at EWR which cannot be found at JFK:

Belfast, Glasglow, Bristol, Birmingham, Edinburgh, Lisbon, Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen, Singapore (nonstop), St.Johns, Halifax, Quebec City, Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco, Los Cabos, Cozumel, Dusseldorf, Freeport, Ottawa.

There are carriers that serve both EWR and JFK:

British Airways, Czech Air, Lot Polish, Air France, Alitalia, KLM, Lufthansa, Swiss, Air India, Air Jamaica, El Al

There are carriers that only serve EWR,

Malaysian, Tap Air Portugal, SAS. EVA etc..
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STT757
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:15 am

"LGA is very inconvenient to get to. Its close to Manhattan, though lacks public transportation to the terminals"

The MTA during the Giulianni administration had allocated $650 Million to bring the N train to LGA, the MTA recently withdrew that money to put into other projects (ESA, SAS etc..).

Big mistake IMO..

I love Washington Reagan National Airport's Metro service, right to the front of the Terminals, that's how the N train should be at LGA.
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ly7e7
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:15 am

JFK is nicer then EWR IMO, yet I find EWR much more convenient in terms of getting to/from Manhattan.
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STT757
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:19 am

" I find EWR much more convenient in terms of getting to/from Manhattan."

It will be even better when they extend PATH service to the Newark Airport rail link station, providing direct service to the new World Trade Center PATH hub being designed by Santiago Calavatrava.
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geoffm
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:25 am

EWR for me. Closer to Manhattan, although I guess JFK is just as easy to get to now, albeit longer. Potentially a more awe-inspiring approach too, if you get the southerly runways.

Geoff M.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:46 am

Now while I enjoy his posts, what basis did he come up with that?

...even had I not heard it from a contact [formerly] at SQ-- common sense would dictate that a route cut back to less than daily then axed altogether (while not only keeping but increasing service to each of said route's origin and destination points) must not've been doing so hot  Nuts

That, and they wrestled with themselves over flying said route out of EWR's (nearly sea level but still) 11000ft runway... a problem solved by shifting departure time to past 11pm.



I've never seen anything published

...not that [step 1] opening your eyes to results you might not want to see and [step 2] actually searching for some, wouldn't have yielded anything  Yeah sure
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STT757
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:50 am

ConcordeBoy you have to give me kudos for remembering your posts from months ago, I do indeed enjoy your posts but I feel your not always right. Sometimes, often, but not always.

Regards.
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Newark777
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:54 am

It will be even better when they extend PATH service to the Newark Airport rail link station, providing direct service to the new World Trade Center PATH hub being designed by Santiago Calavatrava.

When this is completed, there will be direct train service to both midtown and downtown Manhattan. Pretty convenient if I may say so myself.  Smile

Harry
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STT757
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:58 am

"When this is completed, there will be direct train service to both midtown and downtown Manhattan"

Also Jersey City's Gold Coast, Wall Street West.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:07 am

I do indeed enjoy your posts but I feel your not always right.

...too bad what you feel does absolutely nothing to change the plain and simple fact of their decision  Big grin
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jasepl
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:17 am

JFK is better if you have time and want to look around, spot and want variety. But once you've been through both JFK and EWR a bunch of times, you do begin to realise EWR's way more convenient.

The most time it's ever taken me to get to and from the City is 30-45 minutes in the case of EWR. JFK on weekday afternoons can take upwards of 2 hours to get to!
Plus, if you need to connect in New York, EWR is miles better than JFK.

I've known and heard of several people who avoid both JFK and EWR like the plague. They'd rather fly into BOS or something and then connect onto a flight to LGA. Similarly, lots of people go to great lengths to avoid LHR and LGW. They'd rather connect through AMS, FRA or ZRH and arrive at LCY.
 
airtrainer
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:45 am

If I have the choice I will rather arrive in JFK. I always travel for leisure so I'm not in the hurry and taking the subway to Manhattan is fine for me. My only experience at EWR was in 2000 and things may have changed since but my vote goes for JFK...
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STT757
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:45 am

"too bad what you feel does absolutely nothing to change the plain and simple fact of their decision "

Right, their decision to fly their Flagship Premier International route from EWR to Singapore, leaving the longer onestop flight to JFK.

If Singapore's discovered JFK-Frankfurt is such a cash cow someone better let AA know, they've tried JFK-Frankfurt on again off again atleast 3-4 times in the last 20 years and have never been able to make it work.
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JFernandez
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:50 am

It is just better to fly into JFK, if all things are equal - JFK has better International coverage, so if there's a cancelled flight, you're more likely to be fitted with a suitable option.

Is EWR more convenient? Yes, to an extent. Taxi coverage isn't necessarily as great, and taxi is what I'd suggest for non-NYC savvy folks.

My personal experience is that EWR is more delay and screwup-prone than JFK. Not that I have any statistics to back this up...
 
csavel
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:00 am

JFK is closer to midtown Manhattan, and EWR is *slightly* closer to downtown than JFK as the crow flies. They are essentially equidistant. It is a myth to say that EWR is closer, although you can say it takes less time to get there. However driving, because the van Wyck is always crowded and the Turnpike is something like ten lanes, plus the turnpike is a straight shot where you have to sort of dog-leg (LIE to the Van Wyck) it would be quicker to get to EWR from downtown and the West side. The East side, JFK is faster. By public transportation, well now that airtrain works for both it is a matter of Penn Station, NJT > Airtrain,vs. Penn Station > LIRR airtrain, same difference. However you can only get to JFK by subway.

I prefer JFK because it does feel more international, and EWR often feels like,well like New Jersey.

EWR, so I can spot more international heavies there. Big grin

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salso
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:21 am

I definitely prefer EWR due to its proximity to Manhattan, my relatives also live in Jersey City so it is much easier for them to pick me up there then at JFK and not to forget the spectacular approach to the airport.

And...We Europeans do have quite some choice to which of the two airports to fly so it isn't all that difficult to find a suitable flight going to EWR.
 
geoffm
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:42 am

"JFK is closer to midtown Manhattan, and EWR is *slightly* closer to downtown than JFK as the crow flies. They are essentially equidistant. It is a myth to say that EWR is closer, although you can say it takes less time to get there. "

According to Great Circle Mapper, nope. EWR to Times Square area is 9 miles, JFK is 15 miles. EWR to JRB (downtown) 8 miles; JFK 13 miles. I'm not saying it's exactly right, but I doubt it is that far wrong.

Geoff M.
 
tommy767
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:50 am

"For businessmen who work in Manhattan, LGA is the most convenient airport. And let's not forget who gives the airlines the most money...."

There is always traffic in Manhattan, and just taking a cab to LGA can be hazardous. EWR is VERY close to NYC, has generous amount of international service, and very solid rounds of domestic feed. LGA also has a ridiculous 1,500 mile perimeter rule as well.

I would only go to LGA if the fare was cheap.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:19 am

If Singapore's discovered JFK-Frankfurt is such a cash cow someone better let AA know, they've tried JFK-Frankfurt on again off again atleast 3-4 times in the last 20 years and have never been able to make it work.

That's akin to saying BOS-LHR must not be very lucrative because UA couldn't make it work  Nuts
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N62NA
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:55 am

Very good topic - and interesting to see what Europeans think about each airport (as opposed to us Americans who seem to constantly be arguing about which is better, JFK or EWR).  Smile
 
flyguy1
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:26 am

Regarding reply #20, YHZ is served from JFK, and DUS service will start later in 2005. Here are some transatlantic cities served this summer from JFK, and not EWR:
HEL, SVO, NAP, BLQ, PMO, RGX, DXB, CAI, AMM, KWI, VCE, ATH, IST, KBP, CMN, DKR, AGP.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
ltbewr
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:46 pm

Depending on the location in Europe coming from directly, airlines servicing, need for ongoing connections to other cities in the USA (especially in Northeast) or where in NYC area going to if most of NYC itself, Long Island, Lower NY State, vs. New Jersey, Staten Island part of NYC, then that can make a difference which - JFK or EWR - is preferred. Odds are better more service for some locations in Europe via JFK vs. EWR. CO at EWR, has a strong USA domestic flight network at EWR unlike almost all other airlines at JFK. If taking a connecting flight to someplace like Pittsburgh from the NYC area, then EWR is better due to the limited regional flights out of JFK. Some airlines only serve directly only either EWR or JFK, like I believe SAS and CO (international flights) only operate at EWR, some only out of JFK. AA, UA, DL have more flights to Europe out of JFK than EWR, some airlines operate about the same number of flights like, VS and ElAl. There is also the The fare prices, time of the flights also could be factors as to the choice of airport to go in/out of.
 
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STT757
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:57 pm

"That's akin to saying BOS-LHR must not be very lucrative because UA couldn't make it work"

UAL is not a good example, they could not even make Miami to Latin America work!..
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mischadee
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:47 am

It's actually a hard choice for me. Flying often with SAS when the price is right I have no choice, I have to go with EWR, but that place is booooooring. Look a CO and another CO and so on and so on. And Always when I get to land on 22L the weather has been crap so no luck there. I find it easy to get to the city though with NJT. But I have had no problems taking the subway to JFK either. I think actually I have to go with JFK but maybe I change my mind going with BA there in June Big grin. The Airtrain at JFK is better in my opinion, it's definitely faster.

Mischa.
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Hirnie
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:41 am

For me it doesn`t depend on if it`s JFK or EWR, it depends on when I arrive in NY and when I will be able to contact partners or meet friends...
 
Airlinerfreak
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RE: Europeans:JFK Or EWR?

Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:46 am

#20 can you give us your source for that EWR statement?

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