Capt.Fantastic
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UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:49 pm

I recently flew Air Wisconsin from DTW to ORD on a BAe 146-100. I must say this was the most unpleasant ride of life. The aircraft was configured 2 x 3, which was very cramped and further made worse by the almost total lack of legroom (compared to other commuters of this class). The overhead space in the middle of the plane was considerably small, I guess b/c of the wing. Also, practically no seat is half-way descent, unless your in the first few rows. If you're in a "D" seat (middle) God help you! Overall, it was simply very uncomfortable and the airplane itself looked as if it hadn't been refurbished since 1986. This was a -100 series; I don't know if the other 146s with United Express are any different. Anyway, if you see BAe-146 on your United itinerary, pick another flight, at least in my opinion.
 
portcolumbus
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:54 pm

I've flown ZW 146's quite a bit between MKE and ORD, and they seem very nice.


Though, according to seatguru.com, UA's Bae-146s have 33" pitch.
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:57 pm

Funny, the only BAe 146 I have ever flown was a -200 series, with 3-3 seating. It didn't seem all that cramped to me, and I'm 6'3".
 
tokolosh
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:05 am

I have to agree with Capt.Fantastic. I flew a BA 146 from AMS-LHR and found it clausterphobic. Besides the ridiculous overhead bins under the wings (maybe 10-15cm in height, effectively rendering them useless) there is a row of seats without windows. Because of the 3x3 configuration in a cramped cabin, people in that row cannot even see the windows of the row in front or behind them (i.e the outside seats are so close to the side your view is completely blocked). I've never seen any other narrow body plane with such bad packaging.
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baw2198
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:08 am

I've flown on all three series and never had a problem sitting in any of them. Their very comfortable and quite nice. I'll take a 146 over an embraer 135-145 any day of the week. Agreed about the over head room in the middle, but since thats where the wingspar resides...... The leg room in the 146 is the same compared to a EMB145-135 and the CRJ 100-200 series.
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Cactus739
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:14 am

Your topic makes it sound like there is a problem with the plane. Maybe its just a problem with your expectations, wants, and desires from an airplane?

This non-issue topic definately belongs in polls... no offense.

You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
ba319-131
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:15 am

Tokolosh,

Are you sure it was to LHR? BA don't fly the 146/ARJ from LHR.

As to the 146, i've managed 4 flights, 2 with Buzz and 2 EI, I found the aircraft just fine.
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JBo
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:16 am

What aircraft are you comparing the 146 to in terms of spaciousness? Certainly, with the 146 (and its ARJ brethren) being among the largest of regional aircraft, it is roomier than most. I have not been on one myself, but I've heard that alot of people enjoy it compared to other regionals. Probably depends on the configuration.
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tokolosh
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:50 am

BA319-131, Yes, as I remember it was to LHR (maybe it was substituting another plane that day).

JBo, I wouldn't know what Capt.Fantastic was comparing it to, but for me it is the smaller 737s, DC9s (MDs) and Fokker 100s. A nice thing about the BAE146 is the view that you get due to the wings being on top and I like the four engines concept (Jumbolino!), though I have to say the term Whisperjet is maybe exaggerated -- I expected it to be much quieter after all the hype about it being the quietest passenger jet in the world.

By the way, did you know Prince Charles once had an incident when piloting a 146?! I don't know if he still flies.

Greetings
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F9Animal
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:52 am

I love the 146. Great safety record too.
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57AZ
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:02 am

I love them as well. ASA had them for a time and they were the nicest aircraft. Comfortable too compared to the other regional liners, definately moreso than the CRJs for people as big as me-I'm 6'5".
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F9Animal
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:16 am

I remember seeing Business Express had a few awhile back. That was when my obsession began. What a neat airplane!
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zrs70
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:25 am

UA's 146's are one of my favorite planes. Would I want to fly them transcon? No. But shorter flights? Absolutely. I find the space better than any other regional jet (haven't yet flown the 170). View is great because there is no wing to obstruct.
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northwestair
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:31 am

The ones XJ has are really nice it holds only 69 paxs so it seems that you have all the room in the world
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717-200
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:37 am

Also the XJ ones have a small First Class section with seats that have footrests. Is XJ still using them to ASE from MSP and MEM?
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FriendlySkies
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:56 am

Are you sure it was the -100? AWAC only has one of these in the fleet (not sure if they still do), and it certainly doesn't measure up to the -200 or -300. It's smaller and has 6 abreast seating. The others all have 5 abreast and are longer. I flew one ORD-MKE and it was a great flight.  Big grin
 
afay1
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:23 am

Hmmm, what a silly post. I have only flown the -300 Aer Lingus variety and found them to be very comfortable. They had 33" pitch (same as UAL) which is 2" more than usual airline economy. Were you bored and needed something to complain about?
 
SNATH
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:30 am

The aircraft was configured 2 x 3, which was very cramped

2-3 config is very cramped? HA! The LH ones are in 3-3 config. Now, that's cramped.
I love the 146s/Avros. Being able to look at the entire engine throughout the flight is just cool.

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azjubilee
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:30 am

Yes, Mesaba is still operating the avro to ASE from MEM and MSP. THis is a seasonal route from December to APril. At the peak of the schedule on Saturdays we offer 4 flights from MSP and 2 from MEM.

As for the small overhead bins - that is a design issue with the airplane. There is no way around the fact you've got a wing and center fuel tank there. It's not an Air Willy or Mesaba thing... it's a BacJet thing. You can get small bags and briefcases in those bins. But the way people pack and bring things on board you'll have a problem. Nobody seems to lisen either to the FAs making suggestions for storing their things.

AZJ

 
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KaiGywer
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:43 am

I did not feel cramped in the ARJ on my flights on XJ. Now given, I was always in rows 1-4, but I've groomed the back and it didn't seem any tighter than any other plane.

Maybe I just wanna give money to XJ, but if I'm flying somewhere and there is the choice of NW, XJ and 9E, I will pick the XJ flight if the price is close to the same on all of them.
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:55 am

Very interesting perspective considering the 146/Avro is only a couple inches narrower than the boeing narrowbodies and many inches wider than the MD-80 which is 2-3 all the time.
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A340600
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:01 am

Hmm, a 2-3 layout on the Avros isn't bad at all. Try BA Citiexpress 3-3!

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wedgetail737
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:09 am

I've flown BAe-146's on USAir and UA Express and all of them have been 3-2 seating. I didn't think they were that uncomfortable...not any more than your typical commuter aircraft. I kind of miss them a little.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:12 am

I have always found the BA-146 to be a pleasent airplane to fly on. They are (soon to be were) great little airplanes. I like 4 engines.
 
access-air
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:00 am

Actually up until about 1990 Air Wisconsin had all their BAe146-200s configured for 3x3, I flew on one in that configuration from O'Hare to Moline in late 1989.
Subsequently they changed it to the 2x3 seating. Only the two Former Aspen Airways BAe146-100s that Air Wisconsin got when they bought out Aspen were configured for 3x3 and I flew on both of them when Air Wisconsin still had them. I have never felt cramped on the 146 and If my memory is correct, I read some place that it was as wide or maybe an inch WIDER that a 737 not narrower. Can anyone find this???
Anyway, there is nothing wrong with the BAe146 100/200/300 series or its Renamed AVRO-Jet series....The only thing that will now make it obsolete in the eyes of the bean counters is the 4 stove pipes......otherwise its an awesome plane.....something I never used to think when it originally came out..And besides...What about the awesome soudns made by lowering and raising the flaps!!!!!!

Cheers, Access-Air
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SLUAviator
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:01 am

It is not possible for you to have flown on a ZW BAE146-100. We don't own any -100s anymore. Websites (including United's) show you are flying a 100, but in reality you are on a 200 or a 300.

I have sat in the front row of those things, and most of the way to the back and the seat pitch is pretty much the same. I am 6'3" and it is no worse then flying in coach on any other plane.

Yes, the overhead bins are smaller near the wing, and you are correct in assuming that is because of the wing. There is nothing we can do about that though. Sorry.

I probably parked your plane when it got in last week (I seemed to have a lot of DTW inbounds all of a sudden). Your complaints should not be about the plane but about the DTW ground crew sending 50-60 carry on's down to be put in the pit. It takes forever to get them all into the jetbridge. What a mess.

I hope your next trip on us goes better.
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
 
DC10Heavy
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:16 am

I recently flew an AIR_Wisc BAE 146 and I too would concur that this specific a/c is not a very comfortable ride seating wise (at least on the 2 X 3 seating config. that I had) I had to go from SYR to ORD and it seemed a bit long for that type of a/c. On a brighter note however, we got to ORD safely and with little to no turbulence, that says a lot going into the " Windy City ". Then I got on an UAL A320 to MCO! CH-9 was in full effect!

One thing I did not see on any posts thus far is how loud the landing gear is when it goes up or out on the BA 146, I thought it was coming thru the floor after takeoff ! WOW is all I can say....

Overall, I would do the BAE 146 again.

Although, I love USAIR's 737-400!

Regards to all __ Go Eagle Go!

Matthew A. Ware
Syracuse, NY
NWA DC10 LAX to HNL the only way to go!
 
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ATA L1011
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RE: UA Exp BAe-146: Stay Away!

Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:34 am

RE: Access Air;


Here are the cabin widths of the Airbus 320 family, Boeing Narrowbodies,146/Avro and MD-80 family, the boeing narrow bodies are wide

Airbus-320 family: 12 feet 1 inch
Boeing narrow bodies: 11 feet 8 inches
BAE 146/Avro: 11 feet 1 inch
MD-80: 10 feet 1 inch

Clearly the MD80 is the narrow one of the group

Source: Modern Commercial Aircraft, by Portland House publishing

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