juventus
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:00 am

I think we all agree that the top LCC in the world has always been Southwest. But besides them, has anybody else truly mastered the low cost formula: JetBlue, Airtran, Easy Jet, Virgin Blue or Gol in Brazil.
 
propilotjw
Posts: 520
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2000 1:02 pm

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:04 am

we don't all agree that. I think each LCC masters it's own niche. I, personally think jetBlue is the best.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:08 am

Better? Yeah, I enjoy F9 a lot more than I enjoy WN.

More successful? Doubt it.

N
 
JFernandez
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:43 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:10 am

You're essentially assuming that WN is the best LCC, but you're not defining HOW it is the best. From a financial sense, perhaps yes, although jBLU and even Song have some good popularity these days.
 
Carfield
Posts: 2041
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:49 pm

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:14 am

WN -- top of LCC -- I guess if you only consider the profitability and operation of airlines, WN is the top, but personally, I think WN sucks in terms of the boarding procedures, the ugly livery, and ground service... Onboard service is fine, but nothing spectacular, but I give credit to WN for seving a full beverage on nearly all flights including LAX and LAS. I still avoid it at all costs... the giant line at LAX extending onto T-2 is just enough deterrent and most major airlines match WN fares now.

I actually think Jetblue is the best overall LCC out there and Frontier is excellent as well (but its financial result is a mixed batch). Indy-air is also good in terms of service but not financially...

For your question, the answer is yes... Jetblue is way better LCC than WN, and we will have Virgin USA soon.

Carfield
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:16 am

I think in 7 or 8 years Southwest will be bigger than American. I`m not saying bigger = better, but I wouldn`t mess with them.
 
JFernandez
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:43 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:17 am

Dear WN freaks,

Stop being so fanatical about "your" airline. It kinda creeps the rest of us sensible people out. WN's a very nice airline, cost-efficient, and seems to have real brand loyalty, but the "cult" factor is a bit high. Thanks  Smile
 
Cactus739
Posts: 2245
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:41 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:22 am

I don't believe someone started this topic yet again. Its been discussed to death and will be again...this thread will go nowhere and quickly.

The same Southwest haters will spout off the same things they always do about how horrid it is.

The same Southwest lovers will spout off the same things they always do about how truly amazing it is.

You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:33 am

>>>I don't believe someone started this topic yet again. Its been discussed to death and will be again...this thread will go nowhere and quickly.

Should be good for at least 60 or 70 meaningless responses...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
aeronuts
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:47 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:36 am

sure, it's call southwest jr.
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 1820
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:22 am

"Stop being so fanatical about "your" airline. It kinda creeps the rest of us sensible people out. WN's a very nice airline, cost-efficient, and seems to have real brand loyalty, but the "cult" factor is a bit high."

which points to the airline having more brand equity than it knows what to do with. which is another level upon which the foundation of success is laid.
They're not handing trophies out today
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:26 am

BlatantEcho is absolutely right. I know people who will only fly WN because they think they are getting the best fare, every time, even when I fly UA for cheaper. The airline has built up loyalty from people, including me as they are one of 2 airlines I chose to fly in the US, that rivals anything. And the answer on whether there will ever be a better LCC, no.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
lymanm
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:30 pm

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:38 am

This is a rather American-centric thread, so I'll add Easyjet and Ryanair to the mix. In the truest sense of the word, Ryanair with their occasional FREE flights (and a CEO who realistically expects that system wide free flights is entirely possible) must, by definition, be the "best" LCC: they cost the least of any other LCC!
buhh bye
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12504
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:11 am

In the context of delivering for over 30 years, from the highly regulated era through deregulation, surviving the coming and going of many LCC and legacy airlines, 9/11, with competitive fares, within a reasonable range of expectations, then I doubt there will be another LCC in the USA market any better than Southwest. Now the current what I call LCC Plus or Moderate Fare/cost carriers like Jet Blue and Frontier, are as others noted, serve airports like Denver and JFK/LGA in the NYC area that WN chooses not to serve due to costs and that they don't really follow their business model. The European LCC EasyJet is probably the best LCC in the Euro markets with moderate, budget pricing but more like WN in levels of onboard services unlike the 'steerage' service of Ryanair. However, the LCC airlines there are still much younger than WN, so still has to prove itself in the long run vs. Southwest.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:24 am

>This is a rather American-centric thread, so I'll add Easyjet and Ryanair to the mix. In the truest sense of the word, Ryanair with their occasional FREE flights (and a CEO who realistically expects that system wide free flights is entirely possible) must, by definition, be the "best" LCC: they cost the least of any other LCC!<

Well, no, FR and U2 get disqualified because they offer much lower service levels than WN, B6, F9, etc. They charge for drinks, they fly out of far out airports (particularly FR, U2 is not nearly as bad) and do not offer an option of flexible tickets.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
zotan
Posts: 582
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:42 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:03 pm

Can some one clear up the Virgin America thing for me? I though it was a joint-venture between David Neeleman and Richard Branson back in the planning stages of JetBlue, actually it was. Is there another new airline coming out with than name also?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:06 pm

>Can some one clear up the Virgin America thing for me? I though it was a joint-venture between David Neeleman and Richard Branson back in the planning stages of JetBlue, actually it was. Is there another new airline coming out with than name also?<

Neelman did actually look to Branson when starting up jetBlue (then New Air). Neelman was not interested in Virgin branding and Branson wanted to own as much of the airline as the US government would allow. Neelman instead found George Soros (who is a US citizen) to be his patron and Branson moved on
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
CORULEZ05
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:39 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:10 pm

I find it strange that SW is above all yet JetBlue for example offers more....ie inflight entertainment..FROM TV's NOT FLIGHT CREW......SW is something else and I doubt any other can compare to their success....
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
FLY2LIM
Posts: 1095
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 6:01 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:21 pm

Could there ever be a better car than a Mercedes Benz?
Twenty years ago, no one would have said "yes".
Have you driven a Lexus, Infinity, BMW, Audi?
Could there ever be a more successful story than yahoo five years ago? Have you heard of Google?
Anything can be topped, nothing is permanent.
And the word "best" is subjective.
Can we end this thread?
FLY2LIM
Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
 
CORULEZ05
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:39 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:25 pm

those cares are better than Mercedes?....Try Bentley.....and I think its a great post....KEEP IT GOING Y'ALL
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
gift4tbone
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:25 pm

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:53 pm

Personally, I like WN the best. THE BEST. Their service, their flexibility, their fares (not always cheapest, but always cheap). My opinion.

-Tony@PVD
Top 3 airports: PVD 23.9%(138 flights), PHL 14.7%(85 flights), PHX 10.2%(59 flights)
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:41 pm

>I find it strange that SW is above all yet JetBlue for example offers more....ie inflight entertainment..FROM TV's NOT FLIGHT CREW......SW is something else and I doubt any other can compare to their success.... <

I did not know Air Namibia had TV's. Big grin
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
FLY2LIM
Posts: 1095
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 6:01 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:06 pm

those cares are better than Mercedes?....Try Bentley.....

You obviously didn't understand my point. Twenty years ago (before you were born), there was nothing else. Now, many competitors have surfaced and yes, many Lexus owners prefer their cars to a Mercedes.
As for a Bentley, the comparison is ridiculous since a Bentley costs over 200 thousand, despite the fact that the company is owned by either BMW or VW, can't recall exactly.

So, WN is great but there are no guarantees in life. The perfect example in aviation is JB, which is a comparable LCC according to many of its followers.
FLY2LIM
Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
 
JFernandez
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:43 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:38 am

which points to the airline having more brand equity than it knows what to do with. which is another level upon which the foundation of success is laid.

I'm not sure I completely agree - there is a point at where brand equity becomes brand fanaticism, and actually backfires on you. Probably the best I can think of is the Macintosh brand in PCs, although Linux is now positioning itself similarly.

The main problem with this type of "branding" is that either you REALLY get it, or you REALLY don't get it. Sadly, with flying, it isn't one of those things where extreme emotions in either direction are particularly good for the traveler, as it tends to force the flyer to greatly limit one's choices.

Of course, it may be argued that it is bad for these LCCs to become too "mainstream", and in that sense, I agree. I just don't see how people raving about how WN (or frankly, ANY airline or product) is the greatest in the universe is always positive.
 
Spike
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:08 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:46 am

Go with a HCC - Hub n' Spike Airlines!
 
AussieItaliano
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:21 am

"Neelman was not interested in Virgin branding"

Hmmmmmm, that seems logical. Neeleman was a Mormon missionary wasn't he? Maybe Branson's motif might have been a bit much for him.
Third Runway - LHR, Second Runway - LGW, Build Them Both!!!
 
richierich
Posts: 3308
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:25 am

Now this thread has become pretty ridiculous - so let me add my dumbest post to date (and I've had a couple of douzys!)

Everybody knows that Southwest is not the Mercedes of the airline world. They are the Toyota of the airline world- large (Toyota is world's #2 carmaker) - and they bring cheap reliable service to the masses. Southwest, as with Toyota, is a brand where you know what you are getting and it works. Nothing flashy (I'm thinking Corolla here, not MR2 or Supra) and it does what it is supposed to when it is supposed to, with minimum fuss. Southwest is all-encompassing and similarly Toyota has a car for every taste.

The US majors are like the Chryslers, Buicks and Mercurys of the airline world. They have moments of greatness let down by occasional glitches. They are also trying to reinvent themselves and become every schoolboys dream again. Things are looking up but now the competition has become much more firmly entrenched.

BA is like Jaguar, stylish and sophisticated yet their coach product is basically a Ford underneath. It is their Business and First classes that really shine. They have had some turbulent years for sure but they have endured and hopefully the product will continue to improve.

Frontier, JetBlue and AirTran are the Honda, Mazda and Hyundai of the airline world. I'll leave it to someone else to figure out which is which. My point is that all of these airlines are designed to duke it out in an LCC world and everyone is chasing Southwest. Some are closer than others (some might even have passed in terms of service) but none have yet been able to prove they are viable long-terms contenders.

Thus ends my most pointless post ever on one of the most ridiculous threads ever. Someone might as well start an Airbus vs. Boeing war.
None shall pass!!!!
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:47 am

"They are the Toyota of the airline world"

What? Do you know what kind of cars Toyota makes not just in the us but around the world? Some cars have a better ride than the mercedez and I have been in both of them. Don't associate Toyota with Southwest. Its more like Southwest-Kia.
 
dsuairptman
Posts: 695
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:45 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:03 am

Yes, there is a LCC that's better than WN, their called AirTran
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
exFATboy
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:15 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:01 am

What do you mean by "better"? Better run? Better from a passenger point of view?

If it's passenger POV, personally I thin JetBlue is a FAR better experience than WN. But that's just me...my "better" means a plane that isn't god-awful ugly (WN's livery is a special sort of ugly that had to involve a committee or two), has ASSIGNED SEATING, good snacks, and Live TV.

(And, in my case, not having to drive to bloody Islip, thank you very much. I have to admit that makes it easy for me to avoid WN.)

I can't stand to shop at Wal-Mart, either, and yeah, I've said it before, but that's what WN makes me think of.
 
COEWR2587
Posts: 492
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:09 am

RE: Will There Ever Be A Better LCC Than Southwest

Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:32 am

IMO, I think Southwest is the worst from what i've seen. I like Jetblue the most.
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