jdwfloyd
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Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wide.

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:50 am

What route has either too many seats, too much frequency or the cost per seat is too high? Or even what route has too many carriers serving it? This could be in the US or world wide.
 
alb222
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:02 am

LGA/JFK/EWR-FLL

Song
Spirit
Continental
American
US
Jet Blue

Plenty of flights, plenty of seats, low yield
 
juventus
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:04 am

LAX-HNL. I heard those flights are mostly full, but the airlines don't make much money on this route.
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:22 am

PHL BOS you have got one every hour on US and a few a day on FL.
 
B4REAL
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:28 am

Quoting Juventus (reply 2):
LAX-HNL. I heard those flights are mostly full


Not necessarily over serviced then is it?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

How about Chicago-Southern California. We've got UA, AA, WN, TZ on this. Don't know about loads.

...Gosh, everyone posting here above me is a first class member. I'm just a coach class hobit...
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Trolley Dolley
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:16 am

The trans-Tasman routes. 13 airlines, many flying wide bodies, link New Zealand and Australia. These nations have about 4 million and 17 million people respectively. It's hardly a huge market. Fares as low as USD$70 one way for a 3 hour flight. It's a blood bath.
 
komododx
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:34 am

Quoting Trolley Dolley (reply 5):
13 airlines


Wow! Can you give a list?

I can think of QF, NZ, JetStar, and Virgin B... What are the other 9?

Stefano
I'm homeless and unemployed
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:38 am

Quoting Komododx (reply 6):
I can think of QF, NZ, JetStar, and Virgin B... What are the other 9?

Some others I could think of are Freedom Air and Emirates, and perhaps LAN.
 
toxicmegacolon
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:14 am

Houston-Dallas is pretty ridiculous.
20 dailies on Skyteam.
12 dailies on American.
I'm guesing there are other airlines on this route too.... Southwest?
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:20 am

Quoting Toxicmegacolon (reply 8):
I'm guesing there are other airlines on this route too.... Southwest?


Ha..... just a few  Wink

28 DAL-HOU frequencies
28 HOU-DAL frequencies
 
MANmatt
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:49 am

What about LAX-LAS, when i was weighing up the options for this route, i came across UA, ted, HP and WN who all had multiple dailys on the route.

Matt
 
Matt27
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:22 am

Airlines that fly trans-Tasman: NZ, QF, EK, TG, GA, MH, Freedom Air, LAN, JetStar. EK and TG have more than one flight daily as well....
Man ska inte dricka rödvin i en vit hall.
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:25 am

I would think that many US-HNL routes could be money losers - simply because many people are using award tickets or employees flying non-rev. I spoke with one of the old DL F/As here in DFW. She said that she remembers a few L10-11 flights DFW-HNL that had ZERO revenue pax.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:31 am

AR also flies trans-tasman on A340-200s.

An obscenely served route would be Sao Paulo - Rio de Janeiro, there must be about 120 daily flights.

MAD-BCN has roughly 150 daily flights (smallest aircraft being 100 seaters).

also, SIN-KUL-SIN must have at least 4 hourly flights, mostly widebodies

[Edited 2005-03-06 00:36:31]
 
Avianca
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:34 am

Quoting RCS763AV (reply 13):
MAD-BCN has roughly 150 daily flights (smallest aircraft being 100 seaters).


yes but it is not overserved, the route has the market.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
wilcharl
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:51 am

DCA-NYC

with DL CO AA US going between JFK LGA EWR and DCA
 
AR1300
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:01 am

ORD-LGA has a flight every our I think, by UA and AA.Also TZ flies there, but out of Midway.Also CO does...NYC-Chicago has a helluva lots of flights.

Mike.
You are now free to move about the cabin
 
MAH4546
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:05 am

Quoting Alb222 (reply 1):

Plenty of flights, plenty of seats, low yield


And plenty of oversold flights 365 days a year. What is loss in yield is made up for in bulk.
a.
 
gothamspotter
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:07 am

JFK/LGA/EWR-FLL = 51 flights per day, 21 from B6 alone + 30 combined from Spirit, US, Delta, Continental and AA
 
LRGT
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:10 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (reply 3):
PHL BOS you have got one every hour on US and a few a day on FL.


Plus Manchester and Providence.
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
UA772IAD
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:32 am

Quoting Wilcharl (reply 15):
DCA-NYC

with DL CO AA US going between JFK LGA EWR and DCA


Yea but this route is VERY valuable and is used heavily by business travelers. (Don't forget the continuation to Boston)
 
Midwest717
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:38 am

YYZ-YUL, flights leave every 30 min. all widebodies, and then air canada screws over its cities like Thunder Bay and Saskatoon with crappy service
-Paul
 
Airlinerfreak
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:41 am

Quoting MANmatt (reply 10):
What about LAX-LAS, when i was weighing up the options for this route, i came across UA, ted, HP and WN who all had multiple dailys on the route.


Don't forget AA either

But I would have to say the most overserviced route is LAX-JFK You have:

QF,AA,UA,HP,DL,Song
 
alb222
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:41 am

Quoting MAH4546 (reply 17):
And plenty of oversold flights 365 days a year. What is loss in yield is made up for in bulk.



Reminds me of the old story of selling a shirt and losing a $1 on each one but making it up on volume.
I'm flying SFO-JFK/LGA-FLL-ATL-SFO and the LGA-FLL part is $54.50........amazing price and I even get to watch TV!
 
CMK10
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:25 am

If you look at NYC-CHI with "NYC" being HPN/LGA/JFK/EWR and "CHI" ORD/MDW you end up with:

LGA-ORD: UA: 15, AA: 18, Total: 33
EWR-ORD: UA: 8, AA: 7, CO: 9, Total: 24
JFK-ORD: DL: 1, Total: 1
HPN-ORD: UA: 6, AA: 6: Total 12
LGA-MDW: TZ: 6, Total: 6
EWR-MDW: TZ: 4, Total: 4

NYC-ORD: Total: 70
NYC-MDW: Total: 10

NYC-CHI: Total: 80
"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
 
N1120A
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:55 am

Quoting Juventus (reply 2):
LAX-HNL. I heard those flights are mostly full, but the airlines don't make much money on this route.


LAX-HNL flights are always full. They also carry A LOT of cargo because aside from pineapples, fish, sugar and some pigs, they have to ship everything into the islands. Also, airlines are very careful with putting limits on FF awards and I have been told that the flights are often very difficult to non-rev on. Robert Crandall, the infamous former CEO of AA once said the safest risk to take in the airline industry was flying another flight out to Hawai'i, because it would not make the most money, but would make you some.

Quoting MANmatt (reply 10):
What about LAX-LAS, when i was weighing up the options for this route, i came across UA, ted, HP and WN who all had multiple dailys on the route.


AA and NW also fly the route. Remember, LAX is not the only area airport with LAS flights: BUR, ONT, and SNA all have significant LAS service and LGB has LAS service from B6. This is much like NYC-FLL in that it is lower yield, but very high volume

Quoting Airlinerfreak (reply 22):
But I would have to say the most overserviced route is LAX-JFK You have:

QF,AA,UA,HP,DL,Song


QF really does not count and the DL service is to be replaced by Song. B6 also flies out of LGB. Still, this is a high yield, high traffic, high cargo route that does well for all involved.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:01 pm

Quoting Cmk10 (reply 24):


dont forget about ISP to MDW or ORD, not sure if WN serves that route or not.
 
usairways85
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:22 pm

Yes, you do have a large amount of capacity from PHL-PVD/BOS/MHT with US, WN, and FL. However with Southwest in the PHL-PVD/MHT market the O&D between PHL and those cities has gone from around 60-100 a day to around 500 a day.
 
jeffrysky
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:31 pm

SIN-KUL is no longer the heavily-serviced route as it used to be in the past ; i am surprised that people often quote it as the "most heavily serviced" or "the most profitable" route. At certain times, there's an interval of about 3 hrs between flights.

SIN-BKK and SIN-CGK are more likely candidates.

SIN-BKK alone hmm :
Asian carriers :
SQ , TG , CX , GA , TR(Tiger Airways) , 3K , FD , VF , IC , BG

European carriers
AY , SK , TK , LX

14 carriers, an amazing number of frequencies , rock-bottom prices for the consumer.  Smile
 
ckfred
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:14 pm

On New York-Chicago, WN does fly MDW-ISP. AA also flies ORD-SWF, although that route, as well as ORD-HPN are being flown by Eagle since the Fokkers were retired.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:16 pm

Waht about MIA/FLL-MCO. There´s AA, Southwest, DL Connection, CO Connection....
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:46 am

Quoting Lrgt (reply 19):
Quoting Jdwfloyd (reply 3):
PHL BOS you have got one every hour on US and a few a day on FL.


Plus Manchester and Providence.


Since we're talking about a particular route/city, throwing in MHT and PVD doesn't apply in this case; even though WN considers MHT & PVD part of the Boston Market. Besides US' frequency to those cities is no where near as comparable as its BOS service (one could say that it's almost shuttle-like). Worth noting: AEagle and DL Connection use to run this route (PHL-BOS) as well.

PHL-CHI (both ORD & MDW): 30 to 35 r/t flights a day via AA, UA, US & WN. Until recently, TZ served this route as well.

PHL-ATL: about 25 r/t flights a day via DL, FL, US
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Most Over Serviced Route In The US Or World Wi

Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:24 am

I know for a fact that loads on US and AA flights DCA-JFK and DCA-BOS are terrible. They don't make great money, and supply only matches demand on the weekends. At other times, there are huge swaths of seats available on either airline. Not only do these two have to compete with DL, but also with Amtrak, which is the preference of many travelers over flights to crowded LGA.

One market that I have always perceived as wide open was DFW to ORD; American has tons of flights on this route competing with UA. This is possibly not a problem, however, due to the fact that the flights may serve as a way for AA to "shuttle" their aircraft back and forth.

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