glidepath73
Posts: 921
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The "A.NET" Black List

Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:41 pm

Hi all,

when France issued the "Black List" yesterday, lots of media (Radio, TV, Newspapers) said, that aviation experts say that there are lot's of more airlines which should be added to the "Black List". They even talked about a "European Black List" which should be released as soon as possible.

The current airlines on French "Black List" are:


* Air Koryo, North Korea

* Air Saint-Thomas, US Virgin Islands

* International Air Service, Liberia

* Air Mozambique (including its subsidiary Transairways)

* Phuket Airlines, Thailand.


Which airline in your opinion should be added to the black list???
(please only serious suggestions with reasons)



Regards,
Patrick
Aviation! That rocks...
 
gkirk
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RE: The "A.NET" Black List

Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:48 pm

Lufthansa
Signed, Sabena332
--------------------
Sorry, couldn't resist  Wink

Being serious now though, I would imagine a lot of the smaller carriers in Africa, and perhaps South America also.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Leej
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RE: The "A.NET" Black List

Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:48 pm

How about Air France.....
A340 the other week
A340 fire a few years ago
744 of runway in Papeete
744 in Chennai a few years ago
Concorde at Paris
Actually their accident and incident list is suprisingly long for a major carrier.
 
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breiz
Posts: 1426
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:12 pm

RE: The "A.NET" Black List

Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:51 pm

Quoting Glidepath73 (Thread starter):
Which airline in your opinion should be added to the black list???
(please only serious suggestions with reasons)

This is a very serious subject which must not be a matter of opinion.
Airlines are deemed unsafe because of breaches to the relevant regulations, not because we think that an ac looks unsafe, or the pilot acts strangely, or the flight was delayed, or the stewardess was not smiling, or the cabin is dirty,....
Authorities (IATA) should get their act together and decide on rules and regulations ALL airlines must comply with.
It will then be easy to check who's safe or not without interfering political or economical considerations.
 
CV990
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RE: The "A.NET" Black List

Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:58 pm

Hi!

I think the french list looks much more like a "white list" than black infact!!! Comming out with a list like that makes me laugh!!!! I live in Portugal and all I can say is probably about my country airlines, I think if we want to give a true, transparent view on this we must have boundaries, I can't just look to another country, let's say yours Glidepath73 and say that GermanWings or Air Berlin are bad...... because I don't know nothing about any safety issues on that. So let's talk about Portugal, we have a few airlines and I read that some of them although don't have really heavy safety issues they should improve more on that! Let's go in:

Air Luxor - It's an airline that started in late 90's with a small fleet. They now operate a few A320's and A330-300's. Last year one of their A320 had the front wheel broken when it was taxiing. Also one of theirs L1011-500 is still stored at AMS after an engine failure. Air Luxor says that the airplane belongs to another airline called Luzair, but they came from the same pot!!!

EuroAtlantic - Last year they had a lot of techical troubles with their L1011-500, some flights were cancelled because of that and lot of portuguese tourists complained. Now they have a few 767-300's, one is leased by RG, and it looks they're getting better. Anyway not the best charter airline!

YES Air - This charter airline was formed by TAP and travel agency Abreu. They had also lot's of problems with the L1011-500 they used - they just have one airplane and when that plane was grounded....... all the passengers were grounded too!!!! So YES also have it's problems.

WHITE - Trying to "clean" the YES name and bad publicity, TAP and Abreu formed this airline, at least they have a A310-300 and that seems to work out better!!! Only time will tell!

TAP - Excelent airline!

Portugalia - Excelent airline!

There are other small ones but these ones are infact the most popular ( in both ways of course... for good or bad! ).
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: The "A.NET" Black List

Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:51 pm

Quoting Leej (Reply 2):

Even thou AF might have had heaps off accidents, France would never put their national carrier on the blacklist, just think off the shame France would have
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rootsair
Posts: 4012
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RE: The "A.NET" Black List

Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:26 pm

Quoting CV990 (Reply 4):

WHITE - Trying to "clean" the YES name and bad publicity, TAP and Abreu formed this airline, at least they have a A310-300 and that seems to work out better!!! Only time will tell!

Hope Murphy's law doesn't apply to it.

[Edited 2005-08-30 14:26:46]
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glidepath73
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RE: The "A.NET" Black List

Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:39 pm

Quoting Leej (Reply 2):
How about Air France.....
A340 the other week
A340 fire a few years ago
744 of runway in Papeete
744 in Chennai a few years ago
Concorde at Paris
Actually their accident and incident list is suprisingly long for a major carrier.

I think it's different, if an airline respects ICAO, FAA, EASA, and IATA regulations or not.
The A340 fire was a maintenance issue and not pax related. The Concorde would had have never crashed, if the CO DC-10 wouldn't have lost this metal part.
You also should even compare the amount of flight's AF is doing every day and the amount of flights from other airlines which maybe only operate 10 a/c, but had 3 incidents in six month...

Regards,
Patrick
Aviation! That rocks...
 
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breiz
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RE: The "A.NET" Black List

Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:59 pm

The French dailynews "Le Figaro" published today a list of airlines either already blacklisted in Europe or prone to incidents in France:

AeroCondor (Portugal): for a one engine flight Agen-Paris with ATR-42 sub-leased to a danish company sub-sub-leased to a Lithuanian one.

Africa Lines (RCA): Belgian black list

Air Cairo (Egypt): for forced landing at Cairo and non assistance to stranded passengers

Air Koryo (North Korea): French black list

Air Mauritanie (Mauritania): British black list

Air Memphis (Egypt): Belgian black list

Air Mozambique (Mozambique): French black list

Air Saint Thomas: French black list

Air Universal: (Sierra Leone): British black list

Air Van Airlines (Armenia): Belgian black list

Albanian Airlines (Albania): British black list

Alexandair (Greece): temporarily grounded by Greek authorities

AMC Airlines (Egypte): several problems with a MD-82 flying to France

Cameroon Airlines (Cameroon): British black list

Central Air Express (RDC): British and Belgian black lists (bingo!!)

Dniprovia (Ukraina): Swiss black list

Fly Air (Turkey): Numerous incidents in France lately

Girjet (Spania): Swiss black list

Hemus Air (Bulgaria): Swiss black list

I.C.T.T.P.W. (Lybia): Belgian black list

International Air Tours (Nigeria): Belgian black list

Johnson Air (Ghana): Belgian black list

JR Executive (Lebanon): Swiss black list

Karthago (Tunisia): engine problems in France

Luxor Air (Egypt): very low night flight in France

Olympic Airways (Greece): for the bad quality of the sub-contracted charter flights, including Starjet from UAE

Onur Air (Turkey): temporarily banned in the Netherlands and Belgium. Latest is the cabin lining which fell on the head of the passengers

Phoenix Aviation (Kirghistan): British black list

Phuket Air (Thailand): French black list

Premium Air Shuttle (Nigeria): Swiss black list

Silk Way (Azerbaijan): Swiss black list

Silverback Cargo Freighters (Rwanda): Belgian black list

South Airlines (Ukraina): Belgian black list

Star Air (Sierra Leone): British black list

Tadjikistan Airlines (Tadjikistan): British black list

Tuninter (Tunisia): engine stop due to, it seems, human error

For what it is worth so far.
 
CV990
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RE: The "A.NET" Black List

Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:45 pm

Hi!

Well here we go, Breiz it the nail!!!! That's starting to be a truly list!!!! Most of the names I will agree on, AeroCondor from Portugal is quite outstanding but very acceptable to me!!! You see, there are some more that we can count on and I'm sure other ones will come! I even think Helios should be on that one, if it's confirmed that the plane that crashed had some presurisation problems before IT SHOULD BE THERE!!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Newark777
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RE: The "A.NET" Black List

Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:52 pm

Quoting Glidepath73 (Reply 7):
The Concorde would had have never crashed, if the CO DC-10 wouldn't have lost this metal part.

It also wouldn't have crashed if shoddy maintenance hadn't allowed the Concorde to drift to the side of the runway, where it hit the piece, exposing the plane's fatal design flaw.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
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garpd
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RE: The "A.NET" Black List

Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:52 pm

Quoting Glidepath73 (Reply 7):
The Concorde would had have never crashed, if the CO DC-10 wouldn't have lost this metal part.

Realy?
How do you explain the missing spacer from the landing gear which had the tire explode? Said spacer was found on a work bench in a maintenance hanger, where it had been placed during maintenance and not put back.

Perhaps you should do a little research before making accusations of this kind?
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Doona
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RE: The "A.NET" Black List

Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:15 am

Quoting GARPD (Reply 11):
How do you explain the missing spacer from the landing gear which had the tire explode? Said spacer was found on a work bench in a maintenance hanger, where it had been placed during maintenance and not put back.

Perhaps you should do a little research before making accusations of this kind?

Well, you're right about, but the fact remains that the metal part WAS what caused the plane to crash. If it hadn't been there, the accident wouldn't have occured, right?

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
fbgdavidson
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RE: The "A.NET" Black List

Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:40 am

What happens to the aircraft stranded by these listings? About six weeks ago I saw a Phuket Air 747 parked out on the apron at LGW, went back a couple of weeks later and still there.

Is there any exemption to allow the airline to get their aircraft back?
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
glidepath73
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:44 pm

RE: The "A.NET" Black List

Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:04 pm

Quoting GARPD (Reply 11):
How do you explain the missing spacer from the landing gear which had the tire explode? Said spacer was found on a work bench in a maintenance hanger, where it had been placed during maintenance and not put back.

Perhaps you should do a little research before making accusations of this kind?

Garpd, regarding the reverser metal part, that was the latest I've heard about. Your always welcome to provide me better details...Sorry, never heared about the spacer....

Regards,
Patrick
Aviation! That rocks...
 
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garpd
Posts: 2427
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: The "A.NET" Black List

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:42 am

Quoting Doona (Reply 12):
Well, you're right about, but the fact remains that the metal part WAS what caused the plane to crash. If it hadn't been there, the accident wouldn't have occured, right?

Well an airport fireman is on file stating that Concorde was on fire 400 yards before the famous metal strip.

Isn't also wierd that the runways was re-tarmaced right after the incident, thus destroying and skid mark evidence that would have proven on of the wheels was wobbling from the beginning.

If you ask me, the metal strip is being used as an excuse.
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