aeroluxpt
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:23 am

Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:18 am

Hello to all a.nutters

Which airlines are in the Top 10 list as the safest in the World?(official records)
and which is your Top 10 list?
 
dc10s4ever
Posts: 700
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:46 am

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:22 am

1. Quantas
2. Southwest
3. Jet Blue
4. British
5. Lufthansa
6. Singapore
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?
10.?
 
raffik
Posts: 1531
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:50 am

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:24 am

I don't know the top 10, but everyone says that Qantas is the safest, although I'm sure there are alot of other airlines out there without any fatalities.
- Alec
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:25 am

Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
nwafflyer
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:32 am

Is SW still #2? After the Chicago fatality?
 
aeroluxpt
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:23 am

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 4):
Is SW still #2? After the Chicago fatality?

I was thinking the same thing because a have a list from 2001 and they were number 1,
Safest Airlines

United States and Canada

Rankings
Airlines
Accident Rate

1
South West 0.00
2
America West 0.00
3
Delta Airlines 0.23
4
North West 0.35
5
Continental Airlines 0.40
6
United Airlines 0.43
7
USAir 0.45
8
Air Canada 0.48
9
Aloha Airlines 0.49
10
American Airlines 0.53
Sources: AirDisaster.com, AirSafe.com, Boeing, FAA. Statistics valid through December 31, 2000
 
wdleiser
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 4):

It was not their fatality, IMO, that wouldn't be counted against them as it wasn't a passenger on the plane nor a ground crew member.

The death is tragic, but to me does not impede on SW's fatality record. CO has sucked a ramper or two into an engine and I believe US has too, not sure if those count against those airlines. I think what is all said is.... true deadly passenger airplane crashes such as Pan Am and KLM at Tenerife, SQ at Singapore, and etc etc.
 
SESGDL
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:49 am

Fatality rates are calculated by the number of fatalities over the number of flights and passengers for a given time. Just one fatality isn't going to change WN's rate with the billions of passengers who've flown with them in the last 20-30 years.

Jeremy
 
bond007
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:50 am

It's very subjective and impossible to rate the airlines as 'safest'.

What does 'safest' mean?

IMO it's not quite as simple as rating them based on fatalities.

- Many crashes that are not maintenance/crew related could probably have happened to any airline - it was just bad luck it happened to a specific one.

- Does one crash with many fatalities really make an airline less 'safe' than one with 3 crashes but less pax killed? ...or an airline that had 3 very lucky incidents that could have been much worse.

- Often, after a crash, procedures/maintenance etc. etc. are changed and greatly improved (so it doesn't happen again!), and perhaps that airline is now 'safer' than those that haven't had a recent crash.

So, I believe many factors should be taken into account.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
nwafflyer
Posts: 888
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:51 am

So, what are the 10 safest airlines? From a statistical, not an opinionated perspective
 
rossbaku
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 7):
Fatality rates are calculated by the number of fatalities over the number of flights and passengers for a given time. Just one fatality isn't going to change WN's rate with the billions of passengers who've flown with them in the last 20-30 years

Hasn't the topic of this forum already been asked?
RE: Safest Airline (by Olympic707 Aug 18 2005 in Civil Aviation)#ID2280166

Near enough.

RossBaku  Silly
 
bond007
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:59 am

www.airsafe.com will give you lots of answers by fatalities.

It's just as opinionated to say that 'safest airlines' should be based on fatalities, rather than many factors.

The original question was safest airlines - not just those with no fatalities - although I would agree that's a good starting point  

The statisticians would probably say that those airlines with no fatalities, like Qantas, are just as likely (or more?) as those with a recent fataltity, to have the next crash. (Although QF has many less take-off/landings than most US domestic airlines due to their longer routes)


Jimbo

[Edited 2006-03-05 20:03:24]
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
aeroluxpt
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:23 am

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting Rossbaku (Reply 10):
Hasn't the topic of this forum already been asked?

Sorry for that

Quoting Aeroluxpt (Thread starter):
and which is your Top 10 list?

it's a bit diferent. I trust a small carrier like Luxair better than Tap , even though LG hade a fatal crash some years ago. It's a metter of perspective i would say.
 
Ralgha
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 6):
It was not their fatality, IMO, that wouldn't be counted against them as it wasn't a passenger on the plane nor a ground crew member.

Not their fatality? Who's was it then? A Southwest airplane ended up on top of a car. If that airplane wasn't the cause of the kid's death, then what the hell was?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
 
bond007
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:22 am

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 13):
Not their fatality? Who's was it then? A Southwest airplane ended up on top of a car. If that airplane wasn't the cause of the kid's death, then what the hell was?

I totally agree, and it depends on what 'safest' means.

He's not including it because one interpretation of 'safest airline' is the safest in repect to the passengers, and your likelyhood of being in a crash as a passenger - not driving along the perimeter road.


Jimbo

[Edited 2006-03-05 20:23:17]
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
MKEdude
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:11 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 11):
www.airsafe.com will give you lots of answers by fatalities.

I've been to this site often and I find a lot of fault with it. For one the data concerning flight cycles has not been updated since I first discovered the site in '99. So according to airsafe airlines like Air Tran and Midwest have sky-high accident rates even though they have one fatal accident apiece and have flown millions of flights since the numbers were last touched, just plain lazy.

Also airsafe defines fatal events differently for example this entry appeared on CO's accident page...

"2 August 1997; Continental Airlines Boeing 757-200; Lima, Peru: During passenger boarding, an elderly passenger in a wheelchair was assisted up the rear portable stairs by a gate agent. The passenger was instructed by the gate agent to remain at the top of the steps while the agent loaded the wheelchair into the cargo bin. However, the passenger continued to walk into the aircraft, through the aft galley and then through the catering door. The passenger fell to the tarmac through a space between the catering truck and the airplane. The passenger died from the fall injuries. The eight crew members and 141 other passengers were not injured."

This accident was counted in CO's fatal accident rate. And there were similarly ridiculous items as well like Air China being penalized for carrying someone who would later die of SARS.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/ is a much better source. Mountains of raw data which allow you to make your own judgements.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
andaman
Posts: 2271
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:45 am

European airliners with no fatal events since 1970 (airsafe.com):

Aer Lingus
Austrian
Finnair
Iceland Air
Virgin Atlantic
(Sabena)
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
sccutler
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:01 am

The often-cited claim of Qantas' flawlessness is sourced from (and what better source could there be?) the motion picture, "Rain Man."

Qantas are a stellar operator, but they have had, in their history, fatalities. None in a long, long time, though.

===

The argument about the tragic death in Chicago, after the Southwst jet overran the runway, is pedantic silliness. QF had their own, very high-profile runway overrun at BKK; it is their good fortune that there was not a road off the end of the runway there (as there are at many airports 'round the world), or they might have crushed a motor coach full of schoolchildren under the weight of a jumbo jet.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 1):
6. Singapore

How can SQ make this list when they had a horrendous crash in Taiwan a few years back .... entirely pilot error....
 
nzrich
Posts: 1095
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:51 pm

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:55 am

This is very subjective as what was safe 30 years ago can now have different management, lack of money and other problems causing a safety issue.. Also just because an airline has a major crash ie SQ doesnt mean its less safe than other airlines that havent recently had a problem ..

Yes Qantas has a great record but you cant tell me its safer than Air New Zealand , Singapore , BA and United etc..Especially when most airlines out source at least a part of their maintenace to other airlines..
"Pride of the pacific"
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 14):

Agreed. The unfortuate fatality at MDW was not on a Southwest Airlines plane. It may be nick-picking but it is a fact.
Southwest has not had a passenger fatality.

safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
MKEdude
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 9:55 am

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 17):
The often-cited claim of Qantas' flawlessness is sourced from (and what better source could there be?) the motion picture, "Rain Man."

Qantas are a stellar operator, but they have had, in their history, fatalities. None in a long, long time, though.

Actually "Rainman" got it right. Qantas has never had a passenger fatality, the evidence of which can be found here-

http://aviationsafety.net/database/operator/airline.php?var=4842

Now other Australian airlines have had fatal crashes-Ansett, ANA (Not the Japanese one), and TAA for example, all of which have gone out of business in the meantime.

This is not to say that Qantas is the safest airline, their stellar record does have a lot to do with their comparatively small size, and a healthy dose of luck. The 1999 BKK runway overrun could have easly turned into a disaster of tremendous proportions, the pilot obviously had a horseshoe up his ass that day!
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
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aloha73g
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:57 am

Hawaiian has a perfect safety record from its start in 1929 until today....I'm pretty sure it is unrivaled, as Qantas is only 'perfect' in the 'jet-age.'

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 22):
Hawaiian has a perfect safety record from its start in 1929 until today....I'm pretty sure it is unrivaled, as Qantas is only 'perfect' in the 'jet-age.'

How about AY?  Smile
 
aaden
Posts: 774
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:49 am

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:45 pm

quantas
f9
ba
americawest
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5038
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:55 am

Another problem that you run into is the fact of how long all the airlines you talk about have been around, unless you use a certain starting date for ALL airlines then results will not be fair.
 
edelag
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:35 am

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:24 am

In the 1980's it was Quantas, I remember from the movie Rain Man. And I believe it still is.
It's not just the destination, it's the journey.
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 2997
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:30 am

Sorry, I'm not one to usually point this stuff out, but someone already did and it's still not right.

Q A N T A S
Q A N T A S
Q A N T A S

Let's try it together...

Q A N T A S

NOT QUANTAS

Q A N T A S

Study that.. there will be a quiz..

JBLU
 
flymia
Posts: 6810
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:33 pm

Qantas would be my #1 for the fact they been around a long time, have a large airline and even fly across the Pacific over and over.

Than I would go with WN because they have so many Takeoffs and Landings a day yet only two major incidents and no PAX or Crew Fatalities thats pretty good.

Than just about every US airline is safe. Most European atleast Western European. AA,BA,SN,EK,US,DL,UA,B6,F9,MX,IB,EL all safe airlines. There are not many dangerous airlines flying out there as well dangerous airlines dont stay in busisness very long.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:16 pm

Any way you look it it there's a 50% chance of crashing for every flight, no matter what the airline. 50% you will land, 50% you will crash. There are only two possible outcomes.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
boeingfanyyz
Posts: 970
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:16 pm

Umm, isnt El Al supposed to be the safest airline out there? (i.e. checking criminal records, complete strip-search).

Cheers,
Boeingfanyyz  airplane 
"If it aint boeing, it aint going!", "Friends are like condoms...they protect you when things get hard!"
 
CPH757
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RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:10 pm

It is obviously very difficult to tell which airline is the safest. There are more than one reason for that.

First; you have to look at the time interval accidents have occured in. Do the occur randomly over the history of the airline, and are they correlated with the increase in traffic, euqipment changes, worldwide accidents and so on. A good example is Aeroflot. Today it has to be considered a much safer airline than statistics including the 70's and 80's postulates.

Second; it is hard to use the statistical data to make a significant analysis, due to the lack of data. For most companies, accidents (luckily) are very very rare. Though, it is hard to read anything from those numbers, at least it should be done carefully. An example is the QF vs. SQ. You really can't say anything from the data. If one accident occur of of 10 million flights for each, the statistic will show very different safety rate if the accident is flight 1 million for SQ and 9 million for QF. In theory the are both equally safe, but the statistics says something else, until the 10th million flights have been completed.

Third and last; Is the airlines responsible? It is hard to tell. Was the American airlines responsible for the 9/11 accidents? No, not explicitly. But you could still say that the chance of been hijacked is larger on an American flight (hypothetically), so it might actually be fair to count it, although weighted. Another example is the SK Linate (LIN) accident where the ATC were responsible. You cannot blame SK for being less safe because of this, but you can identify flights out of LIN to be less safe.
Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
 
jm017
Posts: 780
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2002 6:47 pm

RE: Top 10 Safest Airlines

Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:35 pm

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 21):
Actually "Rainman" got it right. Qantas has never had a passenger fatality, the evidence of which can be found here-

This claim is simply not true. As SCCUtler said, they have had fatalities in their long history. But not for a LONG time. There are other airlines that have truly had zero fatalities in their history.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."

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