positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:38 am

I am traveling to Cairo, and the DL website has given me the option of flying through CVG and connecting to a Dl flight to CDG before conencting to an AF flight to CAI, OR flying through ATL, and taking AF the rest of the way. I will be traveling first/business class. Has anyone flown both DL and AF that can provide me a comparison? I looked in the trip reports but didn't see any good reports. Also, do any of AF's flights between the US (namely JFK and ATL) and CDG have the "Premiere" cabin? Or is it all "Affaires"?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Positiverate (Thread starter):
Also, do any of AF's flights between the US (namely JFK and ATL) and CDG have the "Premiere" cabin?

All JFK flights have Premiere and so do the ATL flights right now, though the ATL flights are on a 772ER, which means the older cabin.

As for service. First/Premiere will always beat DL's Business/Elite service, which is meant to compete with Business Class offerings (DL doesn't offer 3 cabin aircraft). Additionally, AF's newer cabin aircraft have a brand new Affaires/Business cabin that is superior to DL's offering. Bottom line is that if you want First, you can only get it with AF. If you want business and are going to fly through JFK where you will get the NEV cabin, you also want AF.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
panamair
Posts: 3774
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
If you want business and are going to fly through JFK where you will get the NEV cabin, you also want AF.

Note that only one of the JFK-CDG flights currently features the new J cabin (AF007 - the 773ER); the other JFK-CDG flights are using the older 772ERs, most of which still feature the dreadful old J seats with 48" pitch (but have an F cabin).

Out of ATL and CVG, you can get on DL's 777 to CDG, which many feel is significantly better than their 763ERs because of the seat width (though that has never really bothered me).
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13807
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:04 am

On the 777, DL has wide seats with 60" pitch in J, which is very nice. Will beat the J seat on AF. On the 763, the seats are narrow but still have 60", IIRC.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
avi8tir
Posts: 372
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:34 pm

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:05 am

If you go premiere or on the new affaires, go AF. if its the old affaires, go DL. I have flown through CDG many times on AF & DL. I have yet to fly on the new affaires but I assume it is superior to DL BizElite. BizElite is superior to the old affaires, hands down. this is a seat comparison of course. on a service level, it just depends the "luck of the draw" on your cabin crew. some flights Ive taken have been better on AF, and some on DL. Although the best service I have ever received was last summer on AF 65 LAX-CDG in the old affaires cabin. the cabin was about half empty and I was waited on hand and foot for the whole flight even though everyone esle was asleep (I didnt sleep).
*Long live the Widget*
 
panamair
Posts: 3774
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting Avi8tir (Reply 4):
I have yet to fly on the new affaires but I assume it is superior to DL BizElite.

I like the shell seat concept and the AVOD entertainment system of the new J but I personally hate those pseudo-lie-flat seats (i.e., they're really lie-flat-at-an-angle) as I constantly feel I'm slipping down the seat the entire night. Surprisingly, I actually sleep better on the DL BE seat than on those lie-flat-at-an-angle seats at AF, LX, and even SQ.

On a side note, I was on AF6 CDG-JFK last month on a brand spanking new 773ER in a brand-spanking new J seat..and believe it or not, I actually sat there missing DL!!?  Embarrassment One other thing of course is that because AF has 3 cabins, J service is really not their top level service. The 773ER cabin has about 70 J seats which tends to make the service somewhat less personal than on DL (especially since DL now has this whole personalized dining service thing going)....
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting Avi8tir (Reply 4):
If you go premiere or on the new affaires, go AF. if its the old affaires, go DL.

I've flown BizElite a bunch, but have never flown AF. How do I know ahead of time if it is the new or older cbains on AF?
 
mNeo
Posts: 718
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:12 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:24 am

But also if you are going to be travelling in first the AF 773ER First class seat is something unique
Powered by Maina
 
panamair
Posts: 3774
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 6):
How do I know ahead of time if it is the new or older cbains on AF?

If it's a 773ER, it's definitely the new; if it's an A343 and it does not offer an F cabin, then it's definitely the new. The tricky thing is with the 772ER which will continue to have F even when J is reconfigured. Right now, most of the 772ER are still in the old configuration but the surest way to check would be with the seatmap - the old would have 56 J seats while the new has fewer (I believe 49?)
 
HT
Posts: 5857
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:37 am

I prefer DL´s B/E over AF´s "Affaires". Crossing The Atlantic In Business Class: DL Vs. AF (by HT Dec 20 2005 in Trip Reports)
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:41 am

I flew a long ride CDG-SIN in the new J Class of AF and got a middle of the middle seat. I was thinking they have 2-2-2, but no they got 2-3-2. The seats was quite uncomfortable and DL Elite is far better. The flight attendants on my flight was rude (they even mixed different wines in my glass together) and without any personal service. Also the way how they present the meals remembers me of coach class. The First Class I saw only when I deboarded in Singapore and it doesnt look so much better in terms of seat comfort. The best is in my opinion anyway BAs Club World and First, but if to go on Skyteam, for sure the big part of the flight on DL Elite. I can still remember the good old lady service on DL serving Ice Cream topped with white cream and the nice comfortable seats.
B-717/722/737-200/300/400/500/600/700/800/900/B-747-100/200/400/SP/8i/B-752/3/B-762/3/4/B-772/LR/300ER/B-788/DC-10-10/30/L-1011-1/500/MD-81/82/83/90/A-319/320/321/AB6/312/313/332/333/342/343/346/359/388/TU154/IL-18/ATR-42/72/DH4/DH3/E145/E170/190/CR2/7/9
 
Delta777Jet
Posts: 1239
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2000 6:19 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:43 am

I flew a long ride CDG-SIN in the new J Class of AF and got a middle of the middle seat. I was thinking they have 2-2-2, but no they got 2-3-2. The seats was quite uncomfortable and DL Elite is far better. The flight attendants on my flight was rude (they even mixed different wines in my glass together) and without any personal service. Also the way how they present the meals remembers me of coach class. The First Class I saw only when I deboarded in Singapore and it doesnt look so much better in terms of seat comfort. The best is in my opinion anyway BAs Club World and First, but if to go on Skyteam, for sure the big part of the flight on DL Elite. I can still remember the good old lady service on DL serving Ice Cream topped with white cream and the nice comfortable seats.
B-717/722/737-200/300/400/500/600/700/800/900/B-747-100/200/400/SP/8i/B-752/3/B-762/3/4/B-772/LR/300ER/B-788/DC-10-10/30/L-1011-1/500/MD-81/82/83/90/A-319/320/321/AB6/312/313/332/333/342/343/346/359/388/TU154/IL-18/ATR-42/72/DH4/DH3/E145/E170/190/CR2/7/9
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 2):
Note that only one of the JFK-CDG flights currently features the new J cabin (AF007 - the 773ER); the other JFK-CDG flights are using the older 772ERs, most of which still feature the dreadful old J seats with 48" pitch (but have an F cabin).

 no 

AF023/AF022 JFK-CDG-JFK is operated by a B772ER (F-GSPA) fitted with the new First & Business Class seat. It is the first B772ER (out of 25 a/c) reconfigured. The 24 other B772ER will be reconfigured from now until April 2007.

ALL the A343 and ALL the B744 reconfigured (except 2 B744 that won't be reconfigured as they are scheduled to leave the fleet next year).
 
panamair
Posts: 3774
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 12):
AF023/AF022 JFK-CDG-JFK is operated by a B772ER (F-GSPA) fitted with the new First & Business Class seat. It is the first B772ER (out of 25 a/c) reconfigured. The 24 other B772ER will be reconfigured from now until April 2007.

Thanks, I didn't realize they were using F-GSPA exclusively for AF23/22...
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2137
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 12):
ALL the A343 and ALL the B744 reconfigured (except 2 B744 that won't be reconfigured as they are scheduled to leave the fleet next year).

I got stuck on one of these two old 744s 2 weeks ago JNB-CDG. The old J class sucks!
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:16 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 14):
The old J class sucks!

Well, personally I find the old seats much better, much more comfortable than the now ones  Sad , the only better thing in the new ones is the shell around the seat, so you don't have the passenger in front of you on your knees when he reclines ...

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 14):
I got stuck on one of these two old 744s 2 weeks ago JNB-CDG.

Those two aircraft are F-GISA & F-GISB, they are mostly used on CDG-JNB/CCS/MEX.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4050
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:52 am

I prefer DL's Biz Elite over AF Affairs ... and the crew on DL is MUCH friendlier than AF ... where you are treated poorly unless you are French AND white. That's my take.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
willyj
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:04 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 13):
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 12):
AF023/AF022 JFK-CDG-JFK is operated by a B772ER (F-GSPA) fitted with the new First & Business Class seat. It is the first B772ER (out of 25 a/c) reconfigured. The 24 other B772ER will be reconfigured from now until April 2007.

Thanks, I didn't realize they were using F-GSPA exclusively for AF23/22...

Yeah, even though CDG-JFK is a premiere market, I wouldn't think AF would reserve one aircraft for it exclusively. Not very efficient use of a 772...
 
OlegShv
Posts: 603
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:22 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:32 am

I flew CVG-CDG with both DL and AF, but only in coach. AFAIK DL now uses a 777 on CVG-CDG, while AF was using an A343. I can't comment on the service in DL's B/E or the 1-st class in AF, but the coach service in AF is far superior to that in DL.  Wink

Another thing to keep in mind that if you fly CVG-CDG-CAI, CVG-CDG leg may be served by DL on behalf of AF. That is, there is only one flight out of CVG to CDG in the off-season. In the summer, when there is a lot of people travelling, AF starts operating their A343.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting Willyj (Reply 17):
Yeah, even though CDG-JFK is a premiere market, I wouldn't think AF would reserve one aircraft for it exclusively. Not very efficient use of a 772...

As there is only one B772ER modified for the moment, this aircraft is, indeed operating only AF022/023 for the moment ...

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 16):
I prefer DL's Biz Elite over AF Affairs ... and the crew on DL is MUCH friendlier than AF ... where you are treated poorly unless you are French AND white. That's my take.

Everything is just a matter of taste. You may like Air France of not, but in that case, give some facts, true significant arguments, not just ridiculous statements of that kind.
 
Skip17
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:48 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:27 am

This is easy, Affaires is a better product by far. Air France gets my vote.
 
fa4af
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 11:42 pm

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:51 pm

THANKS FlysSSC FOR BEING THERE FOR ALL OF US...I ALSO FLY FOR AF AND I SOMETIMES WONDER WHY THE FORUM MODERATORS DON'T PITCH IN...LETTING SOMEONE SAY YOU ARE BETTER TREATED ON AF IF YOU ARE FRENCH AND WHITE IS JUST INSULTING. YOU'D BE SUED IN THE US FOR SAYING SUCH THINGS!
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2137
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:42 pm

FA4AF,

1. While I agree that our friend from Venezuela was out of line with his comment, there is no reason to yell (all capital letters).

2. In the USA he would not be sued for saying such things because there is freedom of speech, although he might be shunned.

3. I much prefer DL's service in business. AF's new business seats are much better than DL's business seats. AF's old business seats are just plain terrible due to the lack of pitch.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4050
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:10 am

Quoting FA4AF (Reply 21):
THANKS FlysSSC FOR BEING THERE FOR ALL OF US...I ALSO FLY FOR AF AND I SOMETIMES WONDER WHY THE FORUM MODERATORS DON'T PITCH IN...LETTING SOMEONE SAY YOU ARE BETTER TREATED ON AF IF YOU ARE FRENCH AND WHITE IS JUST INSULTING. YOU'D BE SUED IN THE US FOR SAYING SUCH THINGS!

= Please read my comment. I end with "that's my take." This implies that the opinions are mine. Just like everyone else has one, I do too. The OP asked for opinions, I gave mine. Its based on MY experiences. I don't need anyone to agree or disagree. And, why the hell would I be sued in America?

-A.

[Edited 2006-03-18 01:12:01]
Live, and let live.
 
panamair
Posts: 3774
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19):
As there is only one B772ER modified for the moment, this aircraft is, indeed operating only AF022/023 for the moment ...

Well, yesterday's AF022/023 was operated not by F-GSPA (the converted one) but by F-GSPU (saw it at Terminal 1 when I arrived at JFK) and then saw it at CDG this morning at Terminal 2C..was this just a one-time switch or have they started rotating them again?
 
MSNtriathlete
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:22 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:35 pm

For that matter, can anyone compare AF Espace-Affaires to Continental BusinessFirst? I've got an upcoming trip to Paris, and those are my 2 most convenient options. Thanks!
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: DL BizElite Or AF Premiere/Affaires?

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 24):
was this just a one-time switch or have they started rotating them again?

It's a "one-time" switch, when F-GSPA has to go to short maintenance.

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