zrs70
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Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 9:10 am

35 years ago, Pan Am wa the most prestigious airline to fly and work for. The service was tops, the network was vast, and it was true international symbol.

What world carrier holds that torch today? I would think it's British Airways, but perhaps others have different thoughts.
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
stirling
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 9:12 am

I would say the Virgin Group is up there.
Far flung network.
Affliates in other nations.
Sounds like PanAm to me.
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dtwclipper
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 9:19 am

Here are 83 answers to your question:
RE: Isnt NWA The New PanAm? (by Dtwclipper Apr 12 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2714586
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
spartanmjf
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 9:24 am

In my humble opinion, there is none.

No other airline has come close to the cachet of Pan Am. While my first international flight was not on Pan Am [it was on KLM], my best international flights were always onboard Pan Am 747 Clippers, with Pan Am 727 Clippers always making a great connecting flight.

Even in the downmarket days of the 1980's, if one was booked on Pan Am one knew that there was something 'better' about that trip.

To some extent, BA has a level of style and class, given its British heritage. But other international carriers, American or not, don't even come close.

Pan Am was, after all, the World's Most Experienced Airline.
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
manu
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 9:24 am

Who actually flys the Pan Am 727 aircraft? I frequently see one at ATL when I arrive on AC. Always freaks me out when I see it... Obviously not the same thing, but still a valid question? What is this airline's story and has anyone actually flown them? Do they hold value to their historical name?
 
bigb
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 10:07 am

It will take DL, CO, and UA put together to get PA.

DL-Europe
CO-South America
PA-Asia
ETSN Baber, USN
 
cedarjet
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 10:17 am

BA. I don't think any of the US airlines have the same cachet, I think cos they all grew out of frumpy domestic carriers: AA, United, Continental didn't fly outside the US til the 80s or 90s, about the same time Pan Am died; whereas BA have always been innovators with flying boats in the 20s, covering the whole British empire (ie every continent) in the 30s til the 60s, first with jets, first jets across the pond, CONCORDE and other unique types ie VC10, Trident, and today a fleet that includes 57 747s. Only Air France match that kind of history but they don't have the va-va-voom (ironically). I would add Emirates for the network and exotic style, Qantas for the history, maybe Virgin for the alleged glamour of the brand (I'm not personally a fan, although I like SRB). If there's a US carrier who have carried the flag, it's United, although their service is appalling - they have the massive (ex-Pan Am) to and across Asia, whereas AA, DL and CO just do Tokyo - it's not unusual to see three United 747s lined up at Kansai or Hong Kong.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Cadet57
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 10:21 am

Quoting Manu (Reply 4):
Who actually flys the Pan Am 727 aircraft?

www.flypanam.com

A sorry excuse for an airline if I ever saw one.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting Manu (Reply 4):
Who actually flys the Pan Am 727 aircraft?

Boston-Maine Airways Corp.

Quoting Manu (Reply 4):
Do they hold value to their historical name?

Short answer, no. In my opinion, they have drug what amounts to a national landmark through the mud, especially since they started putting the logo on railroad cars.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
tmarch291
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 7):
www.flypanam.com

A sorry excuse for an airline if I ever saw one.

Does anyone have more information on this airline?

I checked out their website and they seem to have a very odd route map. I couldn't imagine someone flying any of those routes...
 
PanAm747
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 10:54 am

Problem is Pan Am and TWA used to be THE international airlines of the U.S. - and while some airlines had a few routes (Braniff to South America), if you were flying to Europe or Asia, it is almost certain that you would fly either TW or PA.

Today United has Pan Am's Pacific division (in competition with NW who has always had it). Those are your two major U.S. airlines to Asia. Braniff and Pan Am's dominance to South America has been replaced by Continental and American. And while just about everyone is flying to Europe nowadays, Delta (who took Pan Am's Europe system) and Continental are by far the dominant carriers.

It seems as though the spirit of the great but gone airlines are still there...just spread out to their descendants like an inheritance.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
antskip
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 10:58 am

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 6):
I don't think any of the US airlines have the same cachet

US airlines have had their day in the sun. Now it's small non- European countries with big classy airlines that turn heads wherever they go. My votes are for SQ and EK. And they are going to get so much bigger and more significant...
 
boeingbus
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 11:01 am

My opinion its Emirates!

Pan Am was a 747 pioneer just like Emirates will be with the A380.
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
KingAir200
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 11:17 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
Here are 83 answers to your question:

RE: Isnt NWA The New PanAm? (by Dtwclipper Apr 12 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2714586

I would hardly say that NW was the new Pan Am. They lack South America, a hallmark of PA at one point. They only fly to AMS, LGW, CDG, and FRA in Europe. The Asian network is comparable (maybe). They aren't prestigious to work for and the service is fair at best, if is compared to that of PA at their peak. Service meaning in-flight amenities minus IFE. I don't think PA had in seat PTVs like the NW 330s and WBC on 744s. Sure they have a great, innovative history. Read Kenneth Ruble's Flight To The Top if you're interested in that. But look now. They could have been, and could only be similar if they meet a similar fate, hopefully that won't happen. I hope I don't offend any NW employees, but that is what I see.
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 11:18 am

The Pan Am of today is Boston and Maine Airways Corp. as somebody mentioned previously. It is owned by Guilford Transportation, which is primarily a frieght railroad operating in Maine/Massachusetts/N.H./Vermont.

Until about year ago, they operated daily flights between their base at Pease Tradeport (Former Pease AFB) in Portsmouth, NH to Orlando-Sanford, (PSM-SFB) and onwards to Puerto Rico. For a while they tried BGR-PSM-SFB.

From around 1999 until 2004 they also tried and failed at serving numerous 'secondary' airports. Off the top of my head I can remember PSM-Gary, Indiana (Chicago), PSM-East St. Louis, Illinois (St. Louis), PSM-PNE-Northeast Phililedelphia Airport, and I think PSM-BWI for a short while.... although most of their attempts at these routes were pretty short lived themselves anyway. They also flew a lot of sport and Political Campaign charter flights during those years.


The current airline was established in March 1999 and started operations in May 2000. It was founded as a feeder for Pan American Airways and also flew for Caesar's of Atlantic City.

Under the name Pan Am Clipper Connection, Boston-Maine Airways operates six round-trips daily between Trenton-Mercer Airport in Ewing, New Jersey, and Hanscom Field in Bedford, Massachusetts. Boston-Maine Airways also operates one round-trip daily between Trenton-Mercer Airport and Pease International Airport in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

Guilford ceased operating Pan Am on November 1, 2004, but operations were transferred to Boston-Maine Airways, which resumed Boeing 727 service under the Pan Am Clipper Connection brand from February 17, 2005.

In August 2005, a federal investigation into fraudulent financial data submitted by Boston-Maine Airways halted plans to expand its fleet and route system. At the same time, the airline pilot union had claimed that the airline was unfit to operate and urged the Department of Transportation to deny the airline's certification for expansion.[1] The airline later announced that it was suspending service from September 6 to November 16, citing rising fuel costs and decreased levels of booking.[2] In mid-October 2005, the airline suspended 727 flights indefinitely from several airports that it served, including its home base in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.[3]

By March 21, 2006, Pan Am Clipper Connection became the first announced non-charter service to connect to the growing municipal airport in Tunica, Mississippi. The addition not only connects the carrier to a burgeoning casino destination, but also aids efforts to bolster Tunica Municipal as a secondary airport to Memphis International Airport in nearby Memphis, Tennessee. Boston-Maine Airways' Pan Am Clipper Connection will fly from Tunica Municipal Airport to Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport three times per week beginning on May 2, 2006.

[Edited 2006-05-31 04:34:38]

[Edited 2006-05-31 04:38:45]

[Edited 2006-05-31 04:40:24]

[Edited 2006-05-31 04:47:15]

[Edited 2006-05-31 04:48:08]
 
INTENSS
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 11:54 am

Quoting Manu (Reply 4):
Who actually flys the Pan Am 727 aircraft? I frequently see one at ATL when I arrive on AC. Always freaks me out when I see it... Obviously not the same thing, but still a valid question? What is this airline's story and has anyone actually flown them? Do they hold value to their historical name?

PWM2TXLHopper covered the new PA Clipper Connection pretty well. The PA 727's you see in Atlanta operate to Tunica, Orlando-Sanford and Cancun at various times of the week.

I flew on them a month or so ago from Sanford to Atlanta. Decent service, it was on time, and got to fly a 727 in Pan Am colors. Made my day....

-Rich
 
stirling
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 1:41 pm

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 6):

Small correction.
Continental has been international since the 1960s.
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AlexPorter
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 1:51 pm

Continental has a good reputation - and a blue globe on the tail. Their route map internationally isn't as widespread as Pan Am's was (as far as I know), especially in the Pacific, but as their napkins read, Continental serves the most international destinations of any U.S. airline. ("No wonder we're called Continental")
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XA744
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 1:54 pm

Quoting Spartanmjf (Reply 3):
In my humble opinion, there is none.

I second that, absolutely !!!

Flew Pan Am many many times and nothing that we have today could ever compare to it.

Have flown SQ, MH, BA, JL, KL, LH... They are just a shadow in the sky when you think of Pan Am.

Best regards
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
vega
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 2:41 pm

Answer = Whoever comes closest to flying all of these routes:

http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%2...%20Compressed/PA%20mapCOMP5903.jpg
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
zrs70
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 3:08 pm

But it's not just about flying lots of routes. It's about flying those routes with class.
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
antskip
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 3:15 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 19):
Answer = Whoever comes closest to flying all of these routes:

http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%2...3.jpg

pretty impressive! Some interesting gaps: Canada, for one. Other than the huge coverage of the U.S. and South America (US interests?), EK should better that coverage within 10 years. It already covers Africa, Asia, Europe and Australia far more extensively than Pan Am ever did - except, of course, for trips in and out of the U.S.

[Edited 2006-05-31 08:21:11]
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 6:03 pm

Air Canada could be a contender ?


They fly many continents.
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LO231
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 6:27 pm

Quoting Antskip (Reply 21):
pretty impressive! Some interesting gaps: Canada, for one.

For two: Central and Eastern Europe. PanAm used to fly from FRA hub to WAW, BUD, LED, OTP and more. They also served some destinations direct from JFK, for example WAW with A310...

Regards,
LO231
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
 
antskip
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 6:32 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 22):
Air Canada could be a contender ?
They fly many continents.

Checked them out at: http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/destinations/maps/map.html.
and was surprised at their network. Not comparable with the old Pan Am in South America and Africa; but very similar, at least in reach (the maps of course give no idea of frequency ) elsewhere. A very impressive airline!
 
sparkingwave
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 9:30 pm

Who is the Pan Am of today?

There is no Pan Am of today. Period.

SparkingWave ~~~
Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
 
tockeyhockey
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 11:27 pm

the only US airline that comes close to PanAm's reach is CO. look at their route map -- they go just about everywhere the old PanAm did.
 
Braniff1960
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 11:34 pm

Pan Am had acquired years of knowledge serving such remote locations in all parts of the world, they had local contacts in the hotel industry, tourist bureau's, they had pull with the local branches of Government. They were the "go-to" carrier for any and all questions about a foreign destination. I dont think that vast amount of knowledge and experience will ever be matched.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sunbird Photos by Don Boyd


The ONLY carrier that barely comes close is BA.
There will NEVER be another PA. Never.

[Edited 2006-05-31 16:35:04]

[Edited 2006-05-31 16:37:46]

[Edited 2006-05-31 16:38:37]
nothing like the smell of jet exhaust!
 
cs03
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Wed May 31, 2006 11:46 pm

"You Can"t Beat The Experience, Pan Am" (Ad "lingo" 1980 s) says it all, period!
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:12 am

Does anybody remember that it was Pan Am that invented or rolled out "Economy Class" via Juan Trippe to entice more people to fly? With that being said it was a pleasurable experience when they were around. However, they did not change with the times, "Deregulation", and thus eventually folded.
The PanAm of today is not the the same in any shape, fashion or form.

I believe in the next 5-10 years you will see Delta become the PanAm of today. It does not have the Asian routes it needs but that will change over the next several years with other destinations coming online such as China, Indonesia and Australia.

If they keep their present Euro, S. & Cent. American and Caribbean routes the only other international options will be Asia & Africa and I believe Asia would be the more profitable of the two.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
UA868
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:24 am

Nothing like that restaurant on the upper decks of those 747's. Not even BA would be close to being in the same category as PanAm.

It is simpy another era and security and safety in these years simply does not help.

Reegards,

868
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:52 am


What a joke of a route map. So broken.
Puhdiddle
 
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United787
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:21 am

If CO and UA merged, I think the combined airline could be comprable to what PanAm was, but better. I am not suggesting that this would or should ever happen but if you combine the following:

UA's Asia, Europe, Australia, and Latin America network (and Kuwait)
CO's Latin America, Europe, Oceania, and Asia service (and Tel Aviv)
UA's hubs of ORD, IAD, LAX, SFO, and DEN
CO's hubs of IAH, EWR, CLE

I think you would end up with something better than PanAm...A truely international US airline with international service from most major US cities and a comprehensive domestic network to support it, something PA never had. I think they should take the United name (better known internationally) and the CO management.


Or maybe it is the Star Alliance...
 
ContinentalGuy
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:37 am

Where is Bedford, Massachusetts in relation to Boston?
 
NW747-400
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:55 am

Did the original PA have any orders for late model Boeings before folding? IE 744/757/767
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:54 am

Quoting NW747-400 (Reply 34):
Did the original PA have any orders for late model Boeings before folding? IE 744/757/767

As far as I know, no. They were moving in an Airbus direction at the time.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
UA772IAD
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:43 am

I don't know if and how Pan Am got away with this, but I was looking at the History section of United's website and I noticed that during WWII, The Korean War, Vietnam, etc. they reduced most of their operations to help with airlifts. Maybe this is why most of the US Airlines didn't serve international destinations, as early as Pan Am did?

Nonetheless, PA was a genuine world class airline, that can never be recreated. There was and always will be 1 Pan AM.

Quoting Antskip (Reply 11):
US airlines have had their day in the sun. Now it's small non- European countries with big classy airlines that turn heads wherever they go. My votes are for SQ and EK. And they are going to get so much bigger and more significant...

I totally agree.
 
piercey
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:17 am

Listen, I'm honestly sick of all these threads! Who is the next Pan American World Airways, Trans World Airlines, Eastern, Western, Braniff, etc... THERE WILL NEVER BE "ANOTHER" ONE. I'd like to remeber Pan Am through it's globe-trotting service, TWA coming in and out of it's legendary terminal @ JFK, Eastern and the Whisperliners, Braniff and the flying colours, and so on. I could buy out the TWA name, make an insane amount of int'l routes, and still would never be the next TWA.

Please, let them RIP!
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
Qazar
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:31 am

The way I see it is that Pan Am was the WOW of airlines in its days... Everything it did and was - would be described by WOW! From the variety of aircraft flown, the inflight service, the destinations, the history... and so on.

So, what airline is the WOW of today? Two airlines seem to always stand out - Emirates and Singapore!!! From operations to aircraft, from innovation in route networks (SIN - LAX/EWR, or DXB - SYD/EWR) to airport bases (aren't Dubai and Singapore rated the best airports in the world?).

Both airlines are also world-renown for their exceptional inflight service.

My money is on these 2!!!
 
KBGRbillT
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:22 am

Quoting BigB (Reply 5):
It will take DL, CO, and UA put together to get PA.

DL-Europe
CO-South America
PA-Asia

PA doesn't fly to Asia now!!!
 
letsgetwet
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:33 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 29):
I believe in the next 5-10 years you will see Delta become the PanAm of today

I agree ......they will fold , just like Pan Am did.
 
apodino
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:25 pm

Quoting ContinentalGuy (Reply 33):
Where is Bedford, Massachusetts in relation to Boston?

BED is about 15 miles to the WNW of Boston, right near Lexington and Concord, and very close to 128-95, which is the inner beltway around Boston. The airport is very close to a number of high tech firms who have businesses along the 128 corridor. Some airlines in the past, noteable the Raleigh based version of Midway, have pressed to offer service into BED, but everytime someone tries to start some sort of service, NIMBY opposition typically shoots it down.

While I don't think there should be mainline service at BED, a couple of props or RJ's to some hub airports (EWR, LGA, PHL, DCA), could work, and I think they would command a premium. But for the most part, the big boys will always be at BOS.
 
sparkingwave
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:51 pm

Quoting KBGRbillT (Reply 39):
PA doesn't fly to Asia now!!!

The poster probably meant UA and not PA.

SparkingWave ~~~
Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
 
NZ8800
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:25 am

There may never be another PanAm.
I cannot think of any current airline that not only has comparable routes, but also comparable status.
MDZWTA ~ Mobile Disaster Zone When Travelling Abroad
 
YULYMX
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:27 am

Routes wise UA could come close... Asia, australia, Europe,
 
panamair
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 43):
There may never be another PanAm.
I cannot think of any current airline that not only has comparable routes, but also comparable status

Amen to that. Airlines today can replicate the hardware, the routes, etc., but the intangibles are all gone now.

Do we think the Singapore Girl can have an intelligent conversation with you about countries/cities and the political situation in Africa? Do we think that knowing the Emirates manager in a foreign country is more important than knowing the ambassador of one's country? Because that's the stature Pan Am attained...

The spirit of Pan Am resides/resided in its people as well - the closest thing you will find today would be those same people that are now at UA and DL - those are the only real flickers left of the Blue Ball. Next time you come across an ex-Pan Am employee at any one of these carriers, let them regale you with tales about flying into Tehran or Douala or Pago Pago...and then you will realize that no carrier today even comes close to the original Pan Am!
 
BCAL
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RE: Who Is The Pan Am Of Today?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting Piercey (Reply 37):
Listen, I'm honestly sick of all these threads! Who is the next Pan American World Airways, Trans World Airlines, Eastern, Western, Braniff, etc...

I am not wishing to be direspectful, but if you are sick of all these threads, don't read them. Last time I looked they were not compulsory reading, and a.netters who were not around in the days when PanAm was the world's most experienced airline, might like some insight.
 bigthumbsup 

Now that I am here I will post my  twocents 

PanAm will never have an equivalent today. For starters, they operated in a regulated airline world and when airlines were regarded as real flag carriers. They were innovative in many aspects (it was Juan Trippe who initially brought flying to the masses by introducing economy class with lower fares and being instrumental in the specifications for the 747). They flew direct to destinations that conjured up dreams and some of these destinations probably do not even have a major international airline serving them now. PanAm pilots were among the best and when a PanAm plane landed, it was almost a state occasion for some airports. I remember the locals at one airport coming out to watch the arrival and departure of the weekly PanAm 707, complete with chairs, tables and picnics which they set up within sight of the aircraft (this was in the days before terrorism reared its ugly head).

In the 1960s, when I was young and my father was in the airline industry, I lived in Istanbul. I remember once asking the airport manager at Yesilkoy who was the most important person at the airport. His reply, without any hesitation, was the PanAm Station Manager who had almost equal standing in Istanbul with the US Consul General! If PanAm wanted something, they only had to ask. They had the best located check-in desks, the best offices, and their staff were always on hand to advise the local carrier (THY) and other airlines, who often turned to the PanAm station engineers when they had problems. Their 707s (and later 747s) were like brand-new SSTs when compared to the old aircraft that competing airlines then operated. Can you see Delta, Continental etc receiving similar respect? Or even VS (which someone has previously said would probably be today's equivalent of Pan Am!) VS probably does not even have their own managers at outposts, and they outsource major maintenance. Furthermore, VS's innovations are hardly turning points in civil aviation (albeit they might have enhanced some comforts in long-haul flying with their AVODs and flat beds but do these have any similarity to PanAm's achievements?).

EK might possibly soon be a contender, but despite all their petro dollars it will take many, many years before they have half the respect that PanAm once had. Whenever I see an EK plane, my first thought is a fool and his money are soon parted. All the money in the world does not gain respect (but certainly helps!). It takes years of operation and experience before any airline comes close to PanAm. The only surviving airlines that come close to PanAm's experience are perhaps BA (which was then BOAC) and QF.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."

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