gh123
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The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:46 am

I'm not talking about how good the service is etc. What I want to know is what airline do you feel is the strongest in the world - taking everything into account.

No biased answers please.

Emirates, BA etc?!

[Edited 2006-10-16 03:49:42]
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:24 pm

Without a doubt - Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV)
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:26 pm

Don't quite understand the question. Strongest = best, or most able to survive?

I'd say SQ for both
 
commavia
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:36 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 2):
Without a doubt - Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV)

I don't know if I'd call them the "strongest" in the world right now.

They are facing increasingly hostile competition from other low cost carriers that keep bumping into each other all over the U.S., to say nothing of the legacy carriers that are now producing superior yields with lower costs than they ever had. And that's before you even talk about their fuel hedging program which has insulated them from the recent spike in fuel prices and is slowly going away, and perhaps most significantly, their labor costs, which are now the highest in the United States.

I'm not saying Southwest is going anywhere anytime soon. They have the largest market cap of any airline in the U.S., they have a great product that customers love, and they have tons of motivated employees being led by one of the smartest and most focused and committed management teams on earth. All that being said, though, there are definitely some substantial challenges ahead for Southwest -- at least in my view.
 
N231YE
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:42 pm

...On the other hand, AA is the world's largest airline, and I am sure BA is somewhere in there.

So you could say the WN has a coveted business model, as they always turn a profit, while AA is the giant, having a strong influence over the industry.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:39 pm

Honestly, I'd say EK...I mean, they're backed by oil, even if they screw up big time (like ordering a few too many A380s) they'll make it through.
 
 
speedbird203
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:56 pm

Using my own definition of Strongest.. I would say British Airways due to my recent flight experiences with them. On a side note, I think you will get many of the asnwers if you want if this was in the Polls Section.
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Palladium
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:09 pm

Cathay Pacific - Singapore Airlines
Emirates - British Airways
Qantas - Air France - KLM
 
Charliejag1
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:25 pm

BA. They have the most extensive route network on earth and hold more clout than any other airline in existence. If BA says "we want to fly to your city", that city will always jump at the chance to accomodate and do business with BA.
 
BOE773
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:40 pm

Quoting Charliejag1 (Reply 10):
BA. They have the most extensive route network on earth and hold more clout than any other airline in existence.

That is incorrect.

AF/KLM have the world's most extensive route network and have more clout than BA.
 
SESGDL
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:12 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 11):

That is incorrect.

AF/KLM have the world's most extensive route network and have more clout than BA.

It depends on what constitutes extensive. DL serves the most destinations of any airline in the world. So it can depend heavily on who you're talking to.

Jeremy
 
Kevin777
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:01 pm

Strongest Airlines - all included:

Southwest
Lufthansa
British Airways
Virgin Atlantic (maybe not in pure size, but otherwise)
Singapore Airlines

I think it's very interesting that no one mentions U2 or FR, while many mention WN... Not that I'm dooming U2 or FR at all, but I definitely wouldn't call them strong airlines either, so I can only agree with others in this thread regarding this..

My Top-3: WN, VS, DK... and increasingly SK

Kevin777
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ZKSUJ
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:11 pm

I'd say EK. They have the cash to spare and a large route network
 
Kevin777
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:25 pm

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 14):
I'd say EK. They have the cash to spare and a large route network

"Cash to spare" should not be a criteria for a strong airline. A strong airline should be strong on the basis of its overall business and market model, not on the basis of cash to spare; this is the same as saying that EK is strong (partly) on the basis of the large oil funds backing the airline.

Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
wukka
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:46 pm

Quoting Gh123 (Thread starter):
What I want to know is what airline do you feel is the strongest in the world - taking everything into account.

No biased answers please.

You: "what airline do you feel is the strongest..."

You: "No biased answers please"

Are you asking us to play in your sandbox with you, or shoud we get out?

Feelings have a bias built in. That's why we feel the way that we do.

Would you like to rephrase?
We can agree to disagree.
 
Pihero
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:02 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 12):
AF/KLM have the world's most extensive route network and have more clout than BA.

It depends on what constitutes extensive. DL serves the most destinations of any airline in the world. So it can depend heavily on who you're talking to.

Take away the US domestic airports served by US airlines and your argument falls on its backside :
Source Air Transport World, October issue :
" International Traffic, January-August 2006 :
1 AF/KL
2 BA
3 LH
4 SQ
5 AA
.
.
10 DL. with just about more than 1/4 th of AF/KL RPK."

If you're talking in terms of "system Traffic" :
1 AA
2 DL (that's my interpolation as DL figures are only from Jan to Jul)
3 AF/KL
4 UA
5 CO
6 NW
7 BA
.
.
.etc..


But I agree, as everything is a matter of opinion, this should be in P&P.
Contrail designer
 
letsgetwet
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:21 pm

It depends on what constitutes extensive. DL serves the most destinations of any airline in the world. So it can depend heavily on who you're talking to.

No they don't Continental does. 293 with their own metal.

[Edited 2006-10-16 11:26:44]
 
Elite
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:23 pm

Cathay Pacific. They've been going strong for a number of years and look to continue to do so.
 
Adria
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:45 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
Honestly, I'd say EK...I mean, they're backed by oil, even if they screw up big time (like ordering a few too many A380s) they'll make it through.

I would also say Emirates but they are backed by a good business model and not by oil...check before making such posts
 
AlexPorter
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:51 pm

I would also say AF/KLM. They are huge, profitable (can't remember where I saw this data but I remember them being very profitable lately), and anchor a major alliance.

Other powerhouses include AA, BA and UA, but to a lesser extent for various reason (finances, size, etc).
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solnabo
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:04 pm

I´ll say (in 5 years):

Qatar
Emirates
Etihad
LH
KLM/AF
Finnair

Don´t see any US carrier in the pipeline, always in limbo w/ Chpt. 11  Wink

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joffie
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:13 pm

Emirates seem to have a huge international market share.

Plus, with all those A380's coming in the next 20 years they will be stronger than most other airline.

Well thats my personal opinion

Bye  sly   sorry 
 
timboflier215
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:05 pm

As this is the strongest airline IN THE WORLD, I don't think you can really see purely domestic US carriers like WN as being so influential outside of the USA. I'd say (in no particular order):

SQ/CX/Qantas - consistently strong over a long period of time
BA/AF-KLM/LH - traditional European powerhouses
EK/Qatar/Etihad etc are up and coming. Give them a few years and see how it all pans out in the Middle East aviation world. Some of them will continue to grow, others may well be stifled by the fierce competition.
AA/DL/UA - massive but again give them a few years. DL and UA especially need to find their feet again before they can be counted amongst the strongest
 
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EK413
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:28 pm

Qantas
Lufthansa
Singapore Airlines
Air France/KLM
Cathay Pacific
American Airlines
British Airways


Just to least the main carriers which I believe are strong in the aviation industry to date...I won't list any Middle Eastern carriers reason being its to early...Give them at least another 20 years and then we'll have a NEW poll!

EK413
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Historic747
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:48 pm

Quoting Gh123 (Thread starter):
Emirates, BA etc?!

In financail terms...Southwest, Singapore and as a few others have pointed CX, QF, BA

AA and DL have strong route structures but to investors they are loss making companies with barely any net worth.

Quoting Wukka (Reply 16):
Feelings have a bias built in. That's why we feel the way that we do.

Use numbers and statistics. I agree numbers can be biased but to a great extent they will help you get rid if 'unjustified' bias
 
byronsterk
Posts: 154
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:26 pm

How about Ryanair...
Helicopters can't fly, there just so ugly the earth repells them...
 
OOer
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:44 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
And that's before you even talk about their fuel hedging program which has insulated them from the recent spike in fuel prices and is slowly going away, and perhaps most significantly, their labor costs, which are now the highest in the United States.

I believe you are incorrect about the labor being the highest in the industry. We do have the highest paid pilots and the highest paid CS agents and ramp agents in the industry...however its because of how hard we work. We often look over at AA and other airlines serving MCO and we usually see 4-5 people working a 737...however we work a 737 with 3 people...you se...sometimes there is only 2 of us!!!! We are paid the most...but we have less manpower!

Does anyone out there actually have the statistics about this? I might be wrong, but I dont think so!
 
UAL777UK
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:53 pm

SQ for me.

Great network, great product and and more importantly great market value!
 
bastew
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:05 am

I think the 'strongest airline in the world' could quite easily go out of business a year later if faced with a combination of unfortunate circumstances. Mis-management followed by an serious accident or two for example. Civil unrest in a particular country or region combined with ongoing labour unrest/strikes. No airline nomatter how strong is immune to these.
 
cobra27
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting Adria (Reply 20):
I would also say Emirates but they are backed by a good business model and not by oil...check before making such posts



True, not by oil, but by kerosene and a good business model. They have lowest seat per mile costs, second only to Ryanair.
 
CF188A
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:15 am

Air Canada has one of the most efficient fleets in the entire world . They have emerged from the hole they were in years ago... and I just think they are now a very intelligent very cost efficient airline. I do not believe there is any other airline in the world which comes close to Air Canada in the terms of economical / being efficient. My hats off to Air Canada.
Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die tomorrow~ RIP ... LJFM
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
Honestly, I'd say EK...I mean, they're backed by oil

Don't mix up Dubai with Abu Dhabi.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
raggi
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:27 am

Hey, what about Alitalia?  duck 


My vote goes to LH


raggi
Stick & Rudder
 
Anirudhvs
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:29 am

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 3):
I'd say SQ for both

SQ is the best according to me ...but please tell me is it in a loss? thanks...anirudh
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:36 am

VLM is a strong airline...


Fleet of standard F50's
Near monopoly on it's prime routes, inc major city pairs
In and out of one of the world most major cities...
Best on time in the UK
Almost 20 minutes early on every flight
Loyal Customer base
Part funded by the owner of the aircraft manufacturer,
Very profitable..


sounds quite strong to me...


BA it isnt, global it isnt, but strong it is.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
BA787
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:36 am

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 11):
That is incorrect.

For once I agree, alrthough my reasonings different to your "I hate Britain Crusade"

I think BA usedn to be one of the strongest but time has been unkind. The likes of FR and VS have made BA's future uncertain.

I think currently SQ or CP.

SQ: Endless pots of money with tons more potential!
CP: Same reason, but their high service brings them a ton of custom


Future:

Emirates or Etihad

EK: Endless money and enless ideas. They're expanding internationally, opening new bases and offering flights outside of the UAE

Etihad: They are thinking outside the box. And I think they're getting it so right.

Unfortunately when oil runs out the two above will reach the end of their lifer as they are built on oil empires and oil money!

Tom
 
justplanecrazy
Posts: 528
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:42 am

well i would have thought that the strongest airline in the world is the one that can lift the most cargo  confused 
your pilots today on this 747 flight are captain oliver hardy and assisting will be FO stan laurel.Have a safe flight
 
BA787
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting Justplanecrazy (Reply 38):
well i would have thought that the strongest airline in the world is the one that can lift the most cargo

 rotfl 
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6512
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 37):

SQ: Endless pots of money with tons more potential!
CP: Same reason, but their high service brings them a ton of custom


CP doesn't exist any more...  Wink

Quoting BA787 (Reply 37):
Unfortunately when oil runs out the two above will reach the end of their lifer as they are built on oil empires and oil money!

Not again, please...  Yeah sure


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
Pieinthesky
Posts: 374
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:03 am

Quoting Anirudhvs (Reply 35):
SQ is the best according to me ...but please tell me is it in a loss? thanks...anirudh

You've even started a seperate thread about this. What ARE you on about ?.
 
BA787
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:04 am

sorry CX



Erm what do you mean not again? lol
 
Pieinthesky
Posts: 374
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting Gh123 (Thread starter):
No biased answers please.

As there is no way of factually proving the answer to your question, all you are going to get is biased opinions. That's the way it is on here I'm afraid.
 
AA777
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:06 am

British Airways.... You really cannot go wrong when LHR is your hub. Its the gateway from the Americas to Europe. And Just as easily serves America's east coast to the near, middle, and far east, as do all US airlines that fly west. BA's location enables them to truly be the worlds most global airline. And with its strong partnerships with OneWorld and particularly AA, you can really go almost anywhere you can imagine. BA has been profitable, and AA has been working very hard on streamlining its ops, fleet usage, and network. Together... they've got the world covered.  Smile

-AA777
 
Pihero
Posts: 4196
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting AA777 (Reply 44):
You really cannot go wrong when LHR is your hub. Its the gateway from the Americas to Europe

So I'd ask you to check the figures :
1/-in terms of RPKs on international flights, the comparison between BA and AF/KL
2/-In terms of hub traffic, CDG and LHR.

Quoting AA777 (Reply 44):
BA's location enables them to truly be the worlds most global airline.

and,

3/-The number of destinations served between BA and AF/KL and the afferent traffic

Please update your facts and figures, you'll embarrass yourself otherwise. What is not in doubt, though, is the dependance of BA on international traffic : about 96% of their activities. The mere definition of a "hub", being the center of a spoke set shows how geographically akward LHR is in relation to the Europe centre.
Contrail designer
 
PlaneHunter
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 42):
Erm what do you mean not again?

Dubai is not dependant on oil any more and Abu Dhabi won't run out of oil for some decades.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
BA787
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 46):
Dubai is not dependant on oil any more and Abu Dhabi won't run out of oil for some decades.


PH

I never gave a time limit!n My only point was that airlines such as EK that are built with oil money won't last forever mainly because oil won't last forever!
 
CP744
Posts: 192
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:55 am

Obviously, Atlas Air........  Wink  Wink  Wink



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ual757
Posts: 745
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RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:59 am

UA of course!!  Smile HEHEHEHE

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 22):
Don´t see any US carrier in the pipeline, always in limbo w/ Chpt. 11

That wasn't very nice, you're just jealous of our legacy carriers.  Wink
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6512
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: The Strongest Airline In The World.

Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:03 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 47):
I never gave a time limit!n My only point was that airlines such as EK that are built with oil money won't last forever mainly because oil won't last forever!

It's simple: Dubai is not dependant on oil any more, EK is not dependant on "oil money". Have a closer look at Dubai's economy.

And Abu Dhabi won't run out of oil for several decades. Enough time to develop other sectors.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!

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