ravel
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Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:23 pm

Companies tend to change their planes' appearance every once in a while which is a pity - at least personally I like to see the same old colours on new planes, reflecting some imaginary company values, national heritage and so on.  Smile

I know that Air France and American Airlines have very old liveries and they have flown Boeing 707's with the current one. Are there any other really old ones in use?

It is a shame that Ethiopian Airlines and Delta changed their livery some years, ago their old ones were true classics.
 
bastew
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:30 pm

Olympics musy be fairly old. Alitalia as well. Also Malev looks pretty classic.

I wish we had a few aircraft painted in retro BA/BEA/BOAC colours at BA.  Smile
 
MEA-707
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:32 pm

Alitalia is definitely a winner
The current scheme was introduced in 1968 or 1969 and hasn't changed a bit, even the newest 777s have the Mickey Mouse black nosetip.
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7474ever
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:41 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 2):
Alitalia is definitely a winner


It needs a SERIOUS upgrade. Very much outdated.

Quoting BAStew (Reply 1):
Also Malev looks pretty classic.

I think it was introduced back in 1988 or 1989. In my opinion, still looks sharp.

Quoting BAStew (Reply 1):
Olympics musy be fairly old.


Right. Old and terrible.

I think Singapore Airline's is quiet old as well.
 
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Owleye
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:10 pm

I think Air Mauritius never really changed its 'evergreen' and timeless aircraft paint design:


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ehho
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:14 pm

Quoting Ravel (Thread starter):
very old liveries and they have flown Boeing 707's



Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 2):
introduced in 1968 or 1969

The previous KL scheme was also introduced in the late 60s and has been replaced in 2003. There are still plenty aircraft flying it though. It has been used both on DC-8s and B738s!


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N31029
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:15 pm

Hi Everyone.

Let us not forget that today's beloved "old, classic" liveries were almost all at one time yesteryear's unwelcome, futuristic changes themselves!

 Smile

Blessings, N31029
John 3:16
 
N1120A
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:16 pm

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 3):
Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 2):
Alitalia is definitely a winner


It needs a SERIOUS upgrade. Very much outdated.

Absolutely not. AZ's livery exudes style. Too bad it doesn't exude profitability

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 3):
I think Singapore Airline's is quiet old as well.

SQ's livery is absolutely hideous and boring.

AA's livery is one that has been around a very long time (more than 35 years) but it has really held up well with age.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
doug_or
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting BAStew (Reply 1):
Olympics musy be fairly old.

I don't know how old, but I think they updates the stripes from multicolored to just blue sometimes in there, so It has been changed.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
iRISH251
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:23 pm

Air-India's scheme is essentially unchanged since they got their first 747s. Not only that, but a new scheme tried in the late 1980s was dropped after an outcry over plans to drop the classic one.


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Cadet57
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:46 pm

American Anyone?


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flybyguy
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:59 pm

It's been said time and time again on this forum that American Airlines' decision to keep its scheme is not an affront to neo-asthetics, but the fact that the paint scheme uses very little paint and thus has weight and fuel efficiency benefits.

United, Northwest, and Southwest may all have very stylized or vibrant schemes but their aircraft are all heavier and burn more fuel annually just to be a little more "pretty". Customers buy tickets to get from A to B quickly, cheaply and with reasonable comfort... certainly not because airlines make their planes colorful.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
fll2993
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:01 am

American for sure. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Cadet57
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:14 am

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 11):

Which would explain why its costing me $287 RT on AA to fly BDL-DFW-MSY when the next cheapest is 310 on CO :P
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
bx737
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:29 am

I think Iberia's scheme is quite old, it came out some time in the 1970s I believe. Mind you I think it is quite nice, how unpopular will that be. The main problem is that it fades quite quickly, bearing in mind the colours
 
ehho
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:57 am

Quoting Irish251 (Reply 9):
a new scheme tried in the late 1980s was dropped after an outcry over plans to drop the classic one.

This is so interesting! If you look at that scheme, it could've easily been today's invention. It's totally Eurowhite avan-la-lettre! Hereby the official A.net petition to rename Eurowhite to Indowhite!  Big grin
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
ikramerica
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:33 am

The American livery has changed over time in regards to the titles. The font has been changed a few times, as has the kerning, though it's all be the same basic san serif idea.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
miamix707
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:38 am

The oldest paintscheme flying around today probably that of Ethiopian, although it only remains on the 757 freighter they have. The passenger fleet has been unfortunately repainted into a bland eurowhite scheme with oversized letters during the past 2 years.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting Ravel (Thread starter):
I know that Air France and American Airlines have very old liveries and they have flown Boeing 707's with the current one.

Air France livery was adopted in January 1976 to celebrate the introduction of Concorde in the fleet.
The first aircraft to wear this, then, new livery was Concorde F-BVFA.
The livery hasn't changed that much since then, only minor adjustement.


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Note that before this change in 1976, Air France had the same livery since it was created in 1933 !!! The only change occured in the early 60s, when the fuselage of the aircraft went from bare metal to White :


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warreng24
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 11):
It's been said time and time again on this forum that American Airlines' decision to keep its scheme is not an affront to neo-asthetics, but the fact that the paint scheme uses very little paint and thus has weight and fuel efficiency benefits.

United, Northwest, and Southwest may all have very stylized or vibrant schemes but their aircraft are all heavier and burn more fuel annually just to be a little more "pretty". Customers buy tickets to get from A to B quickly, cheaply and with reasonable comfort... certainly not because airlines make their planes colorful.

Ok, so why did Air Canada try it and then revert? Remember the recent postings on the AC 767 that went in the paint-less scheme?

It was almost identical to the AA scheme. Bare polished aluminum. The conclusion was the polishing/buffing to prevent corrosion out weighed the fuel savings benefits.

And, remember that Airbus aircraft REQUIRE paint to prevent the composites from breaking down from the ultra-violet sunlight. The AA A300's are painted in silver paint IIRC.
 
KLMA330
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:54 am

American Airlines should never change their livery. Love the silver planes. As they land in Miami, with the sun usually shining, they glitter as they approach the runway.  Smile
 
miamix707
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 3):
It needs a SERIOUS upgrade. Very much outdated.

says who? Alitalia's design is perfect, elegant and still looks very modern. It was way ahead of its time.

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 3):
Right. Old and terrible.

lol that's crazy, and just an opinion of yours. Olympic's scheme has been updated, and it's one of the few elegant paintschemes left, and the most elegant on an A340. No ugly eurowhite nonsense.

seeing your flag is Israeli, that's what EL AL did, they changed a very sharp and pretty livery into the current boring white nonsense to appear cool. Then came PIA and copied this already lame scheme, and got it even worse!  Silly

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
SQ's livery is absolutely hideous and boring.

says who? Singapore's is one of the most elegant liveries to ever be painted on an airliner. Out of the majors, that one is probably the sharpest looking. No wonder it's lasted this long.

Alitalia
Singapore
Iberia
Olympic

All are timeless and awesome designs that should NEVER be changed, especially now. The way airline design trends are, any change would be for the worse!
 
miamix707
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting KLMA330 (Reply 20):
American Airlines should never change their livery. Love the silver planes. As they land in Miami, with the sun usually shining, they glitter as they approach the runway

I know, gorgeous. I can remember when I was so bored of silv er 727s landing at MIA one after another. Today, with some many boring white airplanes with only color on the tail.. i'd pay to see silver 727s again! All day  Smile
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 2):
Alitalia is definitely a winner
The current scheme was introduced in 1968 or 1969 and hasn't changed a bit, even the newest 777s have the Mickey Mouse black nosetip.

Apart from slight modifications, Alitalia's livery remains the same as when it was rolled out in 1970. Some modifications include:

-Lighter green
-Removal of Gold colored "Alitalia" behind each forward door and black colored "Alitalia" behind the rear door
-Application of multiple EU flags and subsequent removal leaving only one
-"Alitalia" written in black with red middle portion of "A" on both wings, still featured on MD82, MD11, A321, A320 and A319 a/c. Boeing 767/777 aircraft feature Alitalia only on one wing now and one wing under the a/c.
-Application of "Team" stickers and subsequent (thank god) removal.

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 3):
It needs a SERIOUS upgrade. Very much outdated.

Alitalia's colors look as fresh today on new a/c as they did back in 1970. An upgrade to the livery is not what's needed. What is needed however is an internal make-over of employees and their work ethic.

At one point, Alitalia's livery and the airline itself (both current and past livery) were synonomous with among the best service in the world and a symbol of national pride. Whether they hate Alitalia or not, as soon as you see the Tricolore "A" you know there is a piece of Italy near you.

The livery looked best on 747s (IMHO), especially since that was what it was originally designed for. Continues today on what are some of the most beautiful 777 a/c in the sky.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
ThePRGuy
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 3):
It needs a SERIOUS upgrade. Very much outdated.

I have to disagree - AZ's scheme is stunning IMO.
Thanks
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captaink
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:34 am

But basically Alitalia wears the oldest livery, even there are alot of airlines, AA, KL, etc that also have older liveries?
There is something special about planes....
 
wingedarrow
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 23):
What is needed however is an internal make-over of employees and their work ethic.

Now that's as useless as it would be a livery change...
אליטליה
 
miamix707
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 25):
But basically Alitalia wears the oldest livery, even there are alot of airlines, AA, KL, etc that also have older liveries?

KLM's look (before the 2003 update) was introduced in the 70's. AA's current scheme is slightly older, since the late 60's.

The Ethiopian livery on the cargo 757 dates from the 1950's.
 
NWADC9
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting EHHO (Reply 5):

The previous KL scheme was also introduced in the late 60s and has been replaced in 2003. There are still plenty aircraft flying it though. It has been used both on DC-8s and B738s!

The crown color was changed, but basically it's the same.
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:43 am

This one's been around since the early sixties:

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Alitalia744
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting Wingedarrow (Reply 26):
Now that's as useless as it would be a livery change...

oh come'onb now wingedarrow, you know I love Alitalia but some of the employees....
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
mygind66
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:29 am

IB is quite old actually.. but looking still good

Photo dated May 1979 (27 years old)


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B6JFKH81
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:30 am

WN's is fairly old with minor changes:

Pic taken in 1971:


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Pic taken in 2006:


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Alitalia744
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 32):
Pic taken in 2006:

not their current livery tho.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
B6JFKH81
Posts: 1964
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:08 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 33):
not their current livery tho.

Is the purple one their official c/s? I thought that was an anniversary c/s? My favorite is still Shamu!
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
n844aa
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 34):
Is the purple one their official c/s? I thought that was an anniversary c/s? My favorite is still Shamu!

Shamu is a good one. But "Canyon Blue" is their new, official c/s. I prefer the old one, but then again, I think I'd also have preferred the old FA uniforms.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
jcf5002
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 33):
not their current livery tho.

Sure it is... Although they have been painting a lot of their older 737s and 733s in the blue scheme, they are still keeping many of them the older sand color. Want proof? Look at replacement parts such as winglets and reverser cowlings. They are being bought to match the a/c and to keep it the sand color.

On a quick side note about that, the only difference between the current sand scheme and the original was that on WNs 727s and 732s, the color was more of a pea green than sand. Its all been similar though.

Jeff
Its always a sunny day above the clouds || CSEL, CMEL, CFI, CFII, MEI
 
cedars747
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:26 am

What about RAM Royal Air Marroc  scratchchin 

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Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
alanCHS
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:57 am

The first Timetable to feature American's current scheme was May 1, 1968

Lyndon Johnson was president
America was involved in a unpopular war
Martin Luther King was killed the month prior and Robert Kennedy would be killed the following month
The St Louis Cardinals were the reigning World Series Champions
The Green Bay Packers were the reigning Super Bowl II Champions
I was 2 1/2 years old living in Alpena, Michigan
Number One TV show was The Andy Griffith Show in it's final season

formerly N408BN, N757AT, Soupthansa, ARCJET
 
egnr
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 19):
The AA A300's are painted in silver paint IIRC

The AA A300s have a polished aluminium skin, just like the other aircraft in their fleet. If it really was a shiney 'metal' paint, surely they would have applied it to the flat grey areas on the A300s and other aircraft in the fleet to improve their appearance?


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See the comments on the above photographs.

The flat grey painted areas are generally those that are made of composite materials, and obviously do not polish up, or are areas of the aircraft where it is desirable to have paint as an additional protective layer, e.g. to protect from debris (stones, etc.) flung up from the tyres on the runway. Again, this is the same as the other aircraft within their fleet.

If AA order the 787, a new livery will probably be unveiled.

[Edited 2006-10-22 01:02:37]
7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
 
IBERIA747
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:08 am

Quoting Mygind66 (Reply 31):
IB is quite old actually.. but looking still good

Photo dated May 1979 (27 years old)

Iberia's current livery was introduced in 1977 when the airline was celebrating it's 50th anniversary...29 years ago.
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
egnr
Posts: 408
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:23 am

How old is TAAG's livery? Earliest dated photograph on here shows a 737 at Boeing Field in 1975:


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Fast forward to 2006...


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I know that at least one 73G and one 772 received a new TAAG livery...

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...but have heard that they will actually be repainted into the earlier livery.
7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
 
baw716
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:39 am

Alitalia744 is absolutely right on. The Alitalia logo and livery are as fresh today as they were when introduced in 1970. If I'm not mistaken, Landor did their livery/rebranding in 1970 and made a radical change in Alitalia's visual image.

Alitalia has recently modified their logo by italicizing it; while I'm not thrilled with it, it is a minor change.

Alitalia has much larger issues to overcome than its livery and logo. It's brand image has taken a serious hit over the years and right now, this is not the area where the company needs to put its focus. I've commented on that point, so I'll not repeat it here. Suffice to say, survival of the company is the number one priority and that is, sadly, very much in doubt.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
captaink
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting EGNR (Reply 39):

The AA A300s have a polished aluminium skin, just like the other aircraft in their fleet. If it really was a shiney 'metal' paint, surely they would have applied it to the flat grey areas on the A300s and other aircraft in the fleet to improve their appearance?

Are you sure about that? Because if i remember correctly the first A300s were greyish and not silver. And from what I have read, it was mentioned that Airbus developed some special process for the aircrafts skin, so as to have them in the 'bare metal' look.

Early bird without the 'bare metal' look
http://widebodyaircraft.nl/a300aaln.jpg

From what I know the A300s fuselage is not covered in aluminum. I could wrong.
There is something special about planes....
 
MEA-707
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:55 am

OK, reading back the thread I think so far
Royal Air Maroc (pre 1962) is the winner.
Runners up are
American Airlines (1968)
Alitalia (1970)
Air India (1970s, their 1960s Boeing 707 scheme is alike but still too different to qualify)
TAAG (1975) When they have their new 777s and 73Gs also delivered in the old colours.
Air France (1976)
Iberia (1977)
LOT (1977)
KLM, Singapore, Olympic and Ethiopian disqualify as there have been more changes then just the small details. Even while their logos and colours remained more or less the same, cheatlines, colors and titles moved, disappeared or changed significantly. Also the USAF (Air Force One) disqualifies as it is not a civil airline.
Southwest also disqualies, while they still USE its 1971 scheme, it's not their official current livery, they are really in the process of going to the canyon blue scheme, even while they hold on to a few 'tribute' old colours aircraft.
Same with Martinair. Their 1970 colours are still used but they are turning to a new colour (no cheatline)
Ghana Airways had the same colours since the 1950s but they went out of business one or two years ago.

[Edited 2006-10-22 01:58:45]
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
Max Q
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:59 am

I woudn't call American Airline's a 'Livery'

Its not even painted!
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
captaink
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 45):
I woudn't call American Airline's a 'Livery'

Its not even painted!

Considering the fact that a livery is a paint scheme, or design used to identify a particular brand, AA benefits from that definition. Hey come one, they have three strips, American marked on the fuselage and two A's with an eagle between on the tail. Big grin

It is a really simple livery, but it works. I mean AA is among the most easily identified airlines out there, that was the point wasn't it.

P.S. I am not fond of the scheme though.
There is something special about planes....
 
doug_or
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RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 43):
From what I know the A300s fuselage is not covered in aluminum. I could wrong.

I guess technicaly its not covered in Alumnium. Its made out of aluminium. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I tihnk the 787 is the first mainline commercial airplane with a compposite fues. Now, the BAC 1-11 did have some componenants either painted in silver or had a metalic foil over them to make them look like they were made of metal.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 47):
I guess technicaly its not covered in Alumnium. Its made out of aluminium. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I tihnk the 787 is the first mainline commercial airplane with a compposite fues. Now, the BAC 1-11 did have some componenants either painted in silver or had a metalic foil over them to make them look like they were made of metal.

Ok so now i am rather confused. IF this is the case, what are other airbii aircraft made of? The A320 series, the A330 series etc. I thought these airplanes were made of composite materials, hence the inability to sport a baremetal livery, because it is not metal. I also thought that was the case for the A300. How is it that the 787 would be the first?
There is something special about planes....
 
doug_or
Posts: 3122
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:55 am

RE: Oldest Livery Still In Use?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:58 am

Airbus use more composite than most Boeings up until now, but I believe most of that is in the wings and tail. I beleive Aibus just want the aluminum painted to avoid corrosion. Not sure if they use a diffrent alloy thna Boeing, or just have diffrent terms for their MX support.
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