walter747
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:49 am

787 Or A350.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:53 am

Which aircraft will US choose. Its a difficult matter considering US's loyalty to Airbus and their problems with boeing. Will US wait for the A350 or will they choose the easy way with the 787? that is the million dollar question.






i personally think they will choose the 787.
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flyusairways
Posts: 114
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:01 pm

IIRC, in return for the loan they received from Airbus, US placed an order for 20 A350s. The question has become whether or not US is obligated to go through with the order, as the loan has been paid of by US, the A350 is not on schedule, and the aircraft design has been modified since the order.

Though I would love to see the 787 in the US livery!  Smile
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N766UA
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:02 pm

They chose the A350 a long time ago.
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walter747
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:06 pm

Quoting Flyusairways (Reply 1):
Though I would love to see the 787 in the US livery!

me too especially since they don't own airbus anything. they should choose the 787. i would love for US to gather up some more boeing products.
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RICARIZA
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:38 pm

I hope they stay with the A-350 order.. love to see US livery on the 350...
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bobnwa
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting Walter747 (Thread starter):
Which aircraft will US choose. Its a difficult matter considering US's loyalty to Airbus and their problems with boeing.

What problems with Boeing are you referring to?
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:03 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 2):
They chose the A350 a long time ago.

Yes but the CEO of US has said they could cancel that order and go with the 787 if that program is delayed which given recent press, it may not come out until 2013 at the earliest. Odds are that it really won't appear until 2014-2015.
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redflyer
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting Walter747 (Thread starter):
and their problems with boeing.



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 5):
What problems with Boeing are you referring to?

I think he's referring to the fallout the original US had with Boeing in the mid-90's when they cancelled an existing order. This happened after former CEO Wolf decided to re-brand US and implement a new marketing strategy, which included a huge order (the largest airplane order up to that time) with Airbus. The cancellation led to a very acrimonious lawsuit between Boeing and US

I don't think there's any "bad blood" between the two companies today. The dispute was settled long ago and US is no longer the same airline. Not to mention the fact that the principals involved in the dispute are long gone. And I'm sure Boeing would just love to get them back as a customer. I would say look for any orders from US in this segment to be a hard-fought battle between Boeing and Airbus.
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Lumberton
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:24 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 4):
I hope they stay with the A-350 order.. love to see US livery on the 350...

IMO, they most likely will stay with the A350 since they have a great relationship with Airbus. Somewhat worrisome for this order though is the fact that SU has given up their delivery slots on the 787. Boeing could use these as leverage for a defection....
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
dw747400
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 2):
They chose the A350 a long time ago.

They chose an A350, not the A350. Though my inclination is the A358 will still be the long haul of choice for US, it is not set in stone. The A358 might be too big and could arrive too late. Also, if the 787 performs better than expected US would likely be able to use those arguments to get out of an order.
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:57 am

I believe the A350XWB has the inside trac since it is both a logical replacement and improvement on their current A330 fleet. The A350 would give them the range they need to serve Europe from the West Coast and initiate trans-Atlantic service without the higher fuel burn of the A343. Yes, I am fully aware the A332 can do both for US now, but they may want A333 levels of capacity which means they'd have to take the A343 at this time.

I see the 787 winning only if three things happen:

  • US must have new long-haul planes years before the A358 and A359 are ready.
  • A343s cannot be leased at rates favorable enough to off-set the greater fuel burn until the A350 is available.
  • The A350's performance is significantly worse then the 787's.

Personally, I don't see any of the three happening, therefore I see US staying with the A350XWB.
 
11Bravo
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
I see the 787 winning only if three things happen:

US must have new long-haul planes years before the A358 and A359 are ready.

A343s cannot be leased at rates favorable enough to off-set the greater fuel burn until the A350 is available.

The A350's performance is significantly worse then the 787's.

Personally, I don't see any of the three happening, therefore I see US staying with the A350XWB.

One additional item should be considered.

Many airlines, including US, are going to be nervous about Airbus' ability to deliver this aircraft on-time. Given the history of fits and starts in the A350 program coupled with the lengthy delays in the A380 program, I think more than a few airlines are going to be hesitant to jump at the A350XWB right away.

I have no doubt the A350XWB will end up being a fine aircraft, and it will eventually be very successful, but I think Airbus has some pretty serious customer confidence restoration to do before they get there.

Given the reality of US Airway's still shaky financial condition, I wouldn't be surprised to see them order nothing for a while. That being said, if they do need to order new WB aircraft in the next few years, I think the B787 has the edge.
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mrcomet
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:12 am

US will be facing CO, NW and probably UA and AA who will be running 787s between lots of city pairs in Europe and elsewhere. It'll be hard for US to fill a A350 regularly enough to make sense. They're all going small -- 757s across the pond. Big is going to be a competitive disadvantage except on a few routes. If they buy A350s, they might find they'll still want 787s.
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ebbuk
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting Walter747 (Thread starter):
i personally think they will choose the 787.

Great to have a topic started by one of our younger members.

US Airways I think could do with the smaller 787.
I recall that US Airways have repaid any monies loaned to them by Airbus. Would it be seen as sharp practice for them to turn their back on Airbus's help through their troubled past by ordering the 787?

Time will tell if they wriggle out of their original 350 order.
 
aa1818
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:08 am

IMHO the 787 is more versatile. An Airline like US who needs the capacity equivalent of the A333 for some routes, but would like more a 767 replacement can find it's needs are met with the 787-8, possibly -9 for some routes, and eventually the -10X. Thus with one type they can have a very flexible long haul fleet.

However, given the committment to Airbus
- the delay would probably need to stretch into 2014 for it to be compelling to switch since interim lift in the form of A330s could be provided
- the price would have to be right- presumably they got some good terms for the A350s beig the North American Launch customer
- the 787 would only need to edge out the A350 in terms of efficiency, a smidgen of a gain in the 787's performance could be crucial. The aviation industry is hard fought and any advantage a competitor gains adds up over time!!

AA1818
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walter747
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:49 am

RE: 787 Or A350.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:03 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 13):
Great to have a topic started by one of our younger members.

thank you Big grin
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Shinkai
Posts: 261
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:58 am

OR... they can pull a Singapore Airlines and buy both!!
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walter747
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:49 am

RE: 787 Or A350.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:02 am

Quoting Shinkai (Reply 16):
Singapore Airlines and buy both!!

haha that would be nice. wonder how that would make everybody feel.
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flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:22 am

The A350 US ordered was not the A350 Airbus is now talking about. The old A350 was much closer to 787 whereas new A350 looks to be similar to a 777 in terms of capacity, etc. Depending on delays, and what US finds itself to need, Airbus might just make a plane that no longer fits US.... we'll just have to see.
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Ken777
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RE: 787 Or A350.

Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:35 am

I think the first thing that has to happen is for Airbus to make a final decision on what the 350 is going to be. Next comes the approval of the board to go ahead with the program - something that is not going to happen this week according to another post.

Airbus also needs to be talking to the airlines who have pre-XWB orders to see what they really want. That might turn out to be a 330 size plane, adding more confusion to the mix.

I doubt if we will see US making a decision on that they are going to do before Airbus makes their decision on that they are going to do.

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