YYZatcboy
Topic Author
Posts: 1032
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:15 am

If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:57 am

I was thinking, so many things changed after 9/11/2001 in our industry (for example, end of the SST, Decline of legacy carriers and rise of LCC's...) I was wondering what things would be like if 9/11/2001 did not happen. I saw a thread about this topic but it was from 2003 and I thought that almost 4 years later we might have a diferent perspective on the impact.

Would we be flying supersonic now? Would SWA and West Jet be doing so well? Would RJ's and EMB be so popular with airlines? Then I thought I'd ask here and get some differnt perspectives.

What are your thoughts?
DH1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30/80 717 727 735/6/7/8/9 744 762/3 77E/W E40/75/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150
J/S DH8D 736/7/8
 
metroliner
Posts: 846
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:35 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:03 am

we'd be allowed into the cockpit for a while during flight...

on a germanwings a319 last week the flight attendant told me that she'd gladly have let me take the jumpseat were it not for the 'new' regulations. such a shame!

speaking of germanwings and lccs in general, i think they'd have been a big hit, 9/11 or not. easyjet, ryanair and others (notably ba's 'go' franchise) began to grow in a big way before the attacks, and that's just talking about europe - in the u.s.a. you have southwest as the shining example of lccs flourishing.

personally i think lccs, using newer equipment, had the jump on legacy carriers bfore 9/11 - while southwest were buying up 737-700s, legacy carriers operated the 727 (as an example) in droves. rising fuel prices and reduced profitability sadly saw these beautiful jets disappear from the skies almost entirely after 9/11. disaster-accelerated progress...
Set the controls for the heart of the Sun
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:16 am

I think TWA might still be around.

That *#&$^@-ing Karibu agreement was set to expire in 2003. The 9/11 downturn was the pulling of the plug.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
WestJetYQQ
Posts: 2763
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:31 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:37 am

How many airlines would Canada have? Would all of those mergers and bankruptcies occurred?

Perhaps JetsGo would still be flying. What about CANADA 3000?!?!?!
Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:04 pm

Quoting YYZatcboy (Thread starter):
I was thinking, so many things changed after 9/11/2001 in our industry (for example, end of the SST, Decline of legacy carriers and rise of LCC's...) I was wondering what things would be like if 9/11/2001 did not happen.

The end of the SST had more to do the AF4590 crash. Remember, it was grounded for a year prior to 9/11. In the US, legacy carriers started having losses at the turn of the century. But 9/11 certainly increased the troubles in the industry expontentially.

There has not been a rise of LCC's after 9/11. Just the opposite. LCC's have come and gone since deregulation in '78. LCC's peaked in the mid '90s. The Valujet crash was a devasting blow, and 9/11 finished the job. Southwest is in another league; but other than that, JetBlue is the exception for being a LCC that succeeded after 9/11.

Quoting YYZatcboy (Thread starter):
Would SWA and West Jet be doing so well? Would RJ's and EMB be so popular with airlines?

SWA and WestJet would be doing better if 9/11 never happened. RJ's and EMB would still sell but more routes would still be mainline aircaft like they were prior to 9/11.

Quoting Metroliner (Reply 1):
on a germanwings a319 last week the flight attendant told me that she'd gladly have let me take the jumpseat were it not for the 'new' regulations. such a shame!

Such a shame indeed.  sigh 

Quoting Metroliner (Reply 1):
personally i think lccs, using newer equipment, had the jump on legacy carriers bfore 9/11 - while southwest were buying up 737-700s, legacy carriers operated the 727 (as an example) in droves.

Southwest is in another league, they are an exception to the rule. The large majority of LCC's had the oldest equipment of all the airlines. For example, I took a KIWI 727 once that an ex-EA jet.

The 727's lasted so long because they were mostly all paid for. They did their job well, and the airlines liked it. The plane had a nostalgic mystique about it. They could have been retired by the early 90's, as A320s and MD-80s were readily available. But I'm glad they didn't.  biggrin 

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 2):
I think TWA might still be around.

That's possible but not a guarentee. They were in a rebuilding process though and placed aircraft orders throughout the final 3 years. I wish TWA was still around. If nothing else, another 717 operator.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
metroliner
Posts: 846
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:35 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:18 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 4):
The end of the SST had more to do the AF4590 crash

yup, not to mention the costly and difficult modifications to tyres and fuel tanks, and the subsequent wane in public confidence and profitability...

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 4):
There has not been a rise of LCC's after 9/11.

what about the likes of jetblue and frontier? they're doing well, opening up new markets and competing effectively in the post-9/11 climate.
Set the controls for the heart of the Sun
 
EGBJ
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:05 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:51 pm

Sabena may still be flying.....
 
SkyGourmet
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:11 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:52 pm

I wonder whether Swissair would still be around?  cloudnine  frown 
Meine dispatcher says there's something wrong mit deine Kabel?
 
qutaiba
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:37 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:08 pm

1. Goofy upstarts would still entertain us in the news.

2. Most of the issues airlines would still contend with relate to labor costs.

3. Each airline would still think it is 'special' and a trend setter of some sort.

4. The 787 would remain as an idea.

5. Fuel prices won't take much space on the news.
When the tide comes in, all ships will rise
 
PC12Fan
Posts: 2015
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:55 pm

The Boeing 757 would still be in production.

Quoting Qutaiba (Reply 8):
4. The 787 would remain as an idea.

Disagree. Airlines are always interested in something that will lower operational costs.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:15 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:43 am

If 9/11 hadn't happened:

I'd still be able to go the BA hangar tour.
I'd be able to visit the flightdeck inflight.

Jump-seating would still be allowed.
Some airlines would have kept their 'classic' airliners a bit longer.
Spotters wouldn't be under so much scrutiny from police etc.
There would be a whole lot of carriers still flying that aren't.
Airlines would be more profitable.

In conclusion, life in the aviation world would be different, most of it for the better.
wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:22 am

Quoting Metroliner (Reply 5):
Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 4):
The end of the SST had more to do the AF4590 crash

yup, not to mention the costly and difficult modifications to tyres and fuel tanks, and the subsequent wane in public confidence and profitability...

 checkmark  Yeah it never was viewed the same in the public's mind.

Quoting Metroliner (Reply 5):
Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 4):
There has not been a rise of LCC's after 9/11.

what about the likes of jetblue and frontier? they're doing well, opening up new markets and competing effectively in the post-9/11 climate.

Yes, as I mentioned JetBlue is one of the few to rise out of the ashes of 9/11. Frontier was around for many years before 9/11 but they also have been successful. These airlines have done a good job, both also large operators of the A32X family.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 9):
The Boeing 757 would still be in production.

I don't know about that but I guess it's possible. I thought production ended because every airline who would've bought more 757's pretty much had enough. Not even orders.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 10):
In conclusion, life in the aviation world would be different, most of it for the better.
wrighbrothers

No question about it.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
highflyer9790
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:21 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:44 am

on the other hand, many airlines started their layoffs in the economical recession of 2001-2003, with airlines like UA for example started to lay off in may, june, and july of 2001. 9/11 simply sped up that process. didnt help any...


agree with everything said above too.
121
 
rootsair
Posts: 4013
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting SkyGourmet (Reply 7):
I wonder whether Swissair would still be around?

han they were practically doomed...bakruptcy would have only been postponed...same for SABENA
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
JetBlueGuy2006
Posts: 1482
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:38 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:39 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 4):
SST

Ok, I feel kind of dumb for asking but what is SST?
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
User avatar
Ryan h
Posts: 1663
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2001 7:11 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:57 am

Ansett might still be here, but I think it would have gone broke even if september 11 did not happen.
South Australian Spotter www.ryanhothersall.net
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:43 am

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 14):
SST

SST=Super Sonic Tranport = Concorde and TU-144.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:01 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Thread starter):
If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

The Thousands Standing Around wouldn't have ever been created!!

Im surprised no one has said this yet!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
USairways16BWI
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 4:58 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Thread starter):
If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

-No(or not as many) Air Marshalls
-no US/HP merger
- 727s would still be in service with some airlines. and 757s would still be in wide production, with plenty of orders.
-People would be allowed back in cockpits, and down the terminal past security without tickets.
-Most if not all observation decks will be re-opened
-No, (or not as many) LCCs
-PIT would still be a main hub for US
-WN would not be as strong
-Not as many 757s flying transatlantic
-No 787 or 773
.
.
.
.
just a few i can think of for now.
 
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3265
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:14 am

I think we'd probably have enjoyed some older, noisier birds for a bit longer than we did...we might even have TWA around. I have to wonder if we'd be keeping track of 787 (at least as we know it) development right now...

If nothing else, non-av would be a lot less interesting!  duck 
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:43 am

Quoting UsAirways16bwi (Reply 18):
-No, (or not as many) LCCs

There were many more LCC's in the US before 9/11..

Quoting UsAirways16bwi (Reply 18):
No 787 or 773

The 773 was already developed before 9/11. I can't see why Boeing would not push forward with the 787. It would have just as many orders if 9/11 didn't happened.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
ReidYYZ
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:00 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:39 pm

Quoting WestJetYQQ (Reply 3):
Perhaps JetsGo would still be flying. What about CANADA 3000?!?!?!

Jetsgo came after and as a result of the decline in high end business class expenditures. C3 died Nov. 8th. At just shy of a month after, 9/11 was only the straw that broke a very sick and dying camels' back. I have heard of many tales of 'open chequebook' expenditures at C3. Apparently a great place to work, sadly missed by many.
 
FlyingColours
Posts: 2204
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:13 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:56 pm

I thought AA had already signed the deal to buy TW in June 2001.

EDIT: Forgot to add, Airlines wouldn't be as tough on crew as they are now - there is pretty much no glamour in flying to the Canaries and back in a day, especially since there are little to no perks of the job - other than the job itself  Smile

Still that doesn't stop me flying, god I love it  Smile

Phil
FlyingColours

[Edited 2007-02-04 13:57:44]
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
andz
Posts: 7623
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:34 am

I think we would have been referring to July 5 or March 23 instead. Let's be realistic, the terrorists would have gotten away with something, just on a different date.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:49 am

I personally think all these airlines were in trouble way before 9/11, 9/11 has been used to many times as an excuse for "bad" business practise.... and as we can see airlines are still in trouble/shut down even 6 years after 9/11

Cheers,
 
xjramper
Posts: 2318
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:10 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:52 am

Here's my .02.......

I think that we would have been attacked no matter by what means.

Security at the airport was under close scrutiny and something tells me that the TSA or some form of it would have been formed.

A few airlines would have bankrupted, not to this extent. However, I think the mergers still may have happened.

The timeline for this probably would have not been this close together. Some airlines were failing financially and yet, those with a solid management would still stand strong.

Its too bad to think what could have happened if it didn't happen and where we'd be today.

XJR
Look ma' no hands!
 
User avatar
fraspotter
Posts: 2062
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 8:12 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:21 pm

If 9/11 never happened than the observation decks at FRA (both T1 and T2 by the McDonalds) would still be open!  mad 
"Taking off is optional. It’s landing that’s mandatory."
 
Elite
Posts: 2297
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:31 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:47 pm

Then something else would've happened. They have been trying to attack civilians via airplanes for quite some time now, and if this never happened our security would never of been as tight, and things such as the Britain bomb plot would not have been foiled.

Just a different look to it, not whether this or that airline will be doing well or not.
 
luketenley
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:51 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:25 am

PIT would still be a big hub for US Airways

PHL wouldn't be as busy and a pain in the butt.

Less airline mergers.

Non traveling people would be allowed through security to take loved ones to the gate.

Less regional jet traffic perhaps??
Pittsburgh International Airport lover
 
1stfl94
Posts: 1082
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:33 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:57 am

I don't that a lot would have changed if 9/11 had never happened. Most of the airlines that went bust after 9/11 were well on their way there (Ansett, Swissair, Sabena, Canada 3000), the LCCs were on the rise and flying was already seen as more of a chore. The only thing that would have changed would have been the speed of the events, there wouldn't have been IMHO such shocks as the Swissair grounding or Ryanair's mammoth 737 order.
 
jamesjimlb
Posts: 940
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:48 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:28 am

Quoting WestJetYQQ (Reply 3):
What about CANADA 3000?!?!?!

what a great airline that was, i still have they're headphones.

Quoting UsAirways16bwi (Reply 18):
and 757s would still be in wide production, with plenty of orders.

that would be so cool to see thoose thing still in production.
The sky is no longer the limit, but the mere minimum
 
WestJetYQQ
Posts: 2763
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:31 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:02 pm

Quoting JamesJimlb (Reply 30):

what a great airline that was,

Yes Indeed. I miss the days of more that 2 or 3 majors flying in Canada!  Sad
Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
 
User avatar
ERJ170
Posts: 5614
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:13 pm

Unfortunately, Midway (JI) would still have dissolved due to bad management...
Aiming High and going far..
 
CupraIbiza
Posts: 547
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:55 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:37 pm

If 9/11 had not of happened I would consider flying to USA for a holiday.
The stories of the treatment by US Customs has changed that.
I fully understand the justification but its a valid reason for changing my mind.
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
 
zrs70
Posts: 3471
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:44 pm

Has 9/11 not happened, thousands of lives would not have been lost or injured. Milllions of lives would not have been forever altered. And countless souls could have been born from all those who perished.
18 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2017
 
CupraIbiza
Posts: 547
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:55 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:04 pm

I totally agree. I answered the question relating to aviation. You may have confused my answer as trivialising the event.
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
 
CXfirst
Posts: 2996
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:13 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:18 pm

this thread wouldn't be here....
security would be faster...... and easier to get through....which isn't all that good.....

how much did it cost for airlines to install the doors they have in the aircrafts today?

-CXfirst
 
scott0305
Posts: 192
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 11:02 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:59 am

Sonic Cruiser, anyone?


filler

filler
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:26 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 17):
The Thousands Standing Around wouldn't have ever been created!!

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding....
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: If Sept. 11 Never Happened...

Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:03 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 4):
The 727's lasted so long because they were mostly all paid for. They did their job well, and the airlines liked it.

Not to mention they were faster then all get-out. I remember a pilot once told me that he had a block time from SLC to HLN in a DL 727 that was just under 55 minutes. Now that's friggin fast.

Quoting UsAirways16bwi (Reply 18):
No 787 or 773

Um...might want to check again when the 773 was launched...
This isn't where I parked my car...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos