B773ER
Topic Author
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:15 am

Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:54 am

I think JFK-LHR and LAX-NRT are the most profitable ! what do you think
 
WestJetYQQ
Posts: 2763
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:31 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:57 am

I'd have to agree on that one. If you count Mexico as Int'l as opposed to Trans-border, there are probably some pretty profitable routes into Mexico city from LAX or DFW.

Cheers
Carson
Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2613
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:08 am

JFK-LHR is not one of the most profitable, just look at the fares. JFK-LHR is so competitive with AA, VG, BA, and to LGW DL and CO that it's no longer the profit maker that it once was.

I'd venture to guess that the most profitable are routes with little competition like JFK-BOM, EWR-TLV, EWR-PEK, EWR-HKG, and others similar to them.

Jeremy
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5027
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:17 am

I would say most things to Asia are more profitable, I consistantly find fares from the US to LHR for $200 plus taxes.
 
LHStarAlliance
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:21 am

JFK-FRA , ORD-FRA , SFO-FRA // LHR - same as FRA
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 1750
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:34 am

ORD - NRT would be up there for sure.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:46 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 2):
JFK-LHR is not one of the most profitable, just look at the fares. JFK-LHR is so competitive with AA, VG, BA, and to LGW DL and CO that it's no longer the profit maker that it once was.

Especially when B6 recently offered round trips for under US $200 including taxes??? I'd say that route be saturated...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
airlineecon
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:22 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:54 am

This is a no brainer the most profitable intl routes from the US have to be anything to Australia.
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:59 am

I'd be curious to see how successful DL's African NSs are since they're not particularly well-served from the US. As for JFK-LHR, its probably profitable but with the intense competition and high tax environment, its not the money maker it once was.
 
femialpha
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:04 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 8):
I'd be curious to see how successful DL's African NSs are since they're not particularly well-served from the US.

LOS happens to be one of BA's most profitable routes despite the harsh working operating environment.
DL has an opportunity to make a lot from the underserved African markets. The key is putting people who understand how to run a successful business in these areas. Too often, American companies do not adapt well to local environments. My company (non-aviation) is learning that the hard way in Europe.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5270
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 2):
JFK-LHR is not one of the most profitable, just look at the fares. JFK-LHR is so competitive with AA, VG, BA, and to LGW DL and CO that it's no longer the profit maker that it once was.

every checked the first-class prices..... on AA, BA ?? and the flights are mostly also in First full... defenetaly JFK-LHR is a money maker...

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 6):
Especially when B6 recently offered round trips for under US $200 including taxes??? I'd say that route be saturated...

since when B6 offers flights outside the American continent?
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
USADreamliner
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:33 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:51 am

According to AA, MIA-EZE.
 
rlwynn
Posts: 1105
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:51 am

Flights to Chile are not cheap.

Lax Taihiti is not cheap.

Many flights to Canada are very expensive for the distance.
I can drive faster than you
 
malaysia
Posts: 2615
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:26 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:15 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 6):
Especially when B6 recently offered round trips for under US $200 including taxes??? I'd say that route be saturated...

lol, I think he meant JFK-SOCAL Big grin
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
airbazar
Posts: 6809
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:16 am

I would not put Asia at the top of the list because any revenue gets highly diluted by the cost of servicing such a long distance destination. You need more aircraft, more fuel, more crew to carry the same number of passengers. LHR, no way, too much competition on that route. LHR is often the cheapest trans-atlantic fare from anywhere in the US. I would have to say, the most profitable has to be a route to a "secondary" market. Something like TLV, MUC, GRU. As AirlineEcon said, I too suspect that of all the major markets, SYD is probably a very profitable route too because of the compelte lack of competition.
 
JAL777
Posts: 2453
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:13 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:21 am

USA --> Rural South America = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
777gk
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2000 3:04 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:02 am

For Continental, IAH-LGW, EWR-TLV, EWR-ZRH, EWR-GVA, EWR-BRU, IAH-GRU, IAH-NRT, IAH-EZE are very strong performers.

Flights to Asia are generally profitable, but do not have the same margins as our most lucrative shorter-haul international markets. As has been mentioned, the operating cost of a 12-14 hour flight is quite a bit greater than your average 6-8 hour transatlantic crossing. Additional crew, fuel, meals, and duty time make these flights a very expensive proposition.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5270
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:56 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 14):
LHR, no way, too much competition on that route. LHR is often the cheapest trans-atlantic fare from anywhere in the US. I would have to say,

as mentioned before, first class is ofen very full booked on the route... .and you pay over 12.000 USD per ticket just for a 7 hour flight... not bad yield for such a short long-haul flight.... with this prices you can even sell some cheap eco tickets for 250 USD return.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 14):
I too suspect that of all the major markets, SYD is probably a very profitable route too because of the compelte lack of competition.

LAX-SYD is twice as long but costs only 6000 USD more than JFK-LHR, you need more personal to run, more aircrafts and the aircrafts are sitting all the day long in LAX....
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:13 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 17):

LAX-SYD is twice as long but costs only 6000 USD more than JFK-LHR, you need more personal to run, more aircrafts and the aircrafts are sitting all the day long in LAX....

The biggest costs involved in flying a plane are take off and landing. The longer a flight is, the less those fixed costs are on a per/mile basis.

Also, while nobody can know what the most profitable routes are, they certainly aren't routes like Los Angeles-Tokyo and New York City-London, to markets with plenty of frequency, plenty of compieition, and plenty of flights to other markets.

Think markets with limited airlines (Bolivia), limited entry (Argentina), limited frequencies (Brazil, South Africa), etc., etc. American Airlines' most profitable London route isn't New York City, Chicago, or Los Angeles, it is Miami, which has less frequencies and less compieition than the others. A market like New York City-London, with nine airlines and 30+ daily flights probably doesn't even break into the top twenty five.
a.
 
WJ
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:14 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:31 am

Quoting AirlineEcon (Reply 7):
This is a no brainer the most profitable intl routes from the US have to be anything to Australia.

That's just plain wrong.

The most profitable routes, domestic or international, depend on cost and revenue per seat/mile. In effect, yield. If you can charge $300 on an LGA-YMX hop, its is far more profitable than charging $1200 on an LAX-NRT which is 9-10 times longer. Flying from the US to Mexico resort town destinations can cost up to $700 RT in coach for 2-3 hour flights using good sized jets (757, A320 etc) with relatively low operating cost. Those would seem to make sense as the highest yield segments out there internationaly.
146,727,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,764,772,300,310,319,320,321,330,343,DC9,D10,MD11,M80,E17
 
Avianca
Posts: 5270
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:42 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
The biggest costs involved in flying a plane are take off and landing. The longer a flight is, the less those fixed costs are on a per/mile basis.

but you have to calculate the complete turnaround, if the aircraft sits 18 hours on ground like QF do in FRA the fixed costs per mile basis will be very high...

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
Think markets with limited airlines (Bolivia), limited entry (Argentina), limited frequencies (Brazil, South Africa), etc., etc. American Airlines' most profitable London route isn't New York City, Chicago, or Los Angeles, it is Miami, which has less frequencies and less compieition than the others. A market like New York City-London, with nine airlines and 30+ daily flights probably doesn't even break into the top twenty five.

as mentioned before LHR-JFK is a money maker do all the business travell were the tarifs are very high...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 20):
but you have to calculate the complete turnaround, if the aircraft sits 18 hours on ground like QF do in FRA the fixed costs per mile basis will be very high...


Yes, that is true. Though long ground time is the exception, not the rule.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 20):

as mentioned before LHR-JFK is a money maker do all the business travell were the tarifs are very high...

Of course it is a money maker, on an absolute basis. Even with all the business traffic, I doubt it is among the most profitable when you look at profitable on a per/flight basis. There is too much compieition. AA, on a per/flight basis, makes more money on Dallas-, Miami-, and Los Angeles-London than New York City-London.

[Edited 2007-02-26 02:45:10]

[Edited 2007-02-26 02:45:35]
a.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4431
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:47 am

Ill venture a couple of guesses:

On UA- ORD-HKG and SFO-HKG (maybe LAX-SYD, the route is huge in cargo), UA's Pacific network is probably their moneymaker

On QF- LAX-SYD for sure!!!

On CO- maybe EWR-TLV and EWR-DEL (maybe IAH-LGW)

On AA- MIA-EZE, DFW-LGW, DFW-NRT, ORD-PVG, ORD-DEL

On DL- JFK-BOM, ATL-JNB

On NW- probably DTW/MSP-NRT, but im not very sure.
It is what it is...
 
Avianca
Posts: 5270
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Yes, that is true. Though long ground time is the exception, not the rule.

I think we have a long ground time on many markets today, as many of the Europe/Brazil - Europe/SouthAfrica. US/Brazil - US/Argentina - US-Down-Under, Europe-Down-Under etc...

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Of course it is a money maker, on an absolute basis. Even with all the business traffic, I doubt it is among the most profitable when you look at profitable on a per/flight basis. There is too much compieition. AA, on a per/flight basis, makes more money on Dallas-, Miami-, and Los Angeles-London than New York City-London.

yes would be very intresting to know the exact data... but I still think that AA is earning more money on per flight basis on the JFK, even if the LHR-MIA flights have very high first-class fares... for example.

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:01 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 23):

yes would be very intresting to know the exact data... but I still think that AA is earning more money on per flight basis on the JFK, even if the LHR-MIA flights have very high first-class fares... for example.

No, they aren't. In 2005, on a per/flight basis, ORD-MAN, MIA-LHR, and DFW-ZRH were the top three performers to Europe. This info was leaked, and has been posted on these boards and others.
a.
 
kanebear
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 12:06 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:05 am

Just pax or pax and cargo? Big difference there. You can have a 777 go out with 15 people on board that is making a fortune from the cargo below.
 
bimmerkid19
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:43 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:07 pm

MSP-NRT on NW ... hmm... 2 flights in the Summer and 1 flight in the winter... and they are the only operators of this route at present, although there's been some hinting at JL possibly cracking into MSP to take advantage of their partnership with NW.
Last flights: LH 3738 MUC - ZRH , LH 3749 ZRH - MUC . Upcoming: EK 50 MUC - DXB 3-aug. and EK 322 DXB - ICN 7- Aug.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:13 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 10):
Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 6):
Especially when B6 recently offered round trips for under US $200 including taxes??? I'd say that route be saturated...

since when B6 offers flights outside the American continent?



Quoting Malaysia (Reply 13):
lol, I think he meant JFK-SOCAL

DAMNN!!!

I did this in another thread, too, but I caught meself making that mistake then. I only noticed this one just now!!!

I was referring to BRITISH AIRWAYS!!! [BA] NOT JetBlue! I have no fricking clue as to how the heck I managed that mistake!!!  banghead   silly   embarrassed 
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
united319
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:07 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:30 pm

What about the HNL-Asia routes (unless were only counting the 48 contiguous United States). Considering the extremely high Asian population in Hawaii and the high amount of Asian tourists.
It's Time To Fly
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7069
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:30 pm

I would think IAD- KWI for UA.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4431
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:36 pm

Quoting Bimmerkid19 (Reply 26):
MSP-NRT on NW ... hmm... 2 flights in the Summer and 1 flight in the winter... and they are the only operators of this route at present, although there's been some hinting at JL possibly cracking into MSP to take advantage of their partnership with NW.

The fact that they are the only operaters of the route makes the route more profitable.
It is what it is...
 
UA772IAD
Posts: 1269
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:43 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:57 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 22):
On UA- ORD-HKG and SFO-HKG (maybe LAX-SYD, the route is huge in cargo), UA's Pacific network is probably their moneymaker

I would also add:
SFO/ORD/IAD-FRA
SFO-SYD

I believe HNL-NRT/KIX are also quite profitable

For AA
S. American routes for sure

For US
probably their Caribbean/Latin America network
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:03 pm

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 31):
For US
probably their Caribbean/Latin America network

US' Latin American network does not extend past Guatemala City and resorts in Mexico and Costa Rica.
a.
 
dimondan
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:54 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:56 pm

It has to be anything flying to Las Vegas
"Approaching V-1"
 
mtsubshe
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:54 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:08 pm

how about jfk-dxb, on emirates
 
CPT523
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:38 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:15 pm

SAA's IAD - JNB would my guess. Near monoploy on route. (Delta just started ATL-JNB, so that must show how good their code share with SAA was before Star Alliance)


Cheers Big grin
 
CXfirst
Posts: 2875
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:13 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 2):
EWR-PEK

As well as the upcoming IAD-PEK.

-CXfirst
 
airbazar
Posts: 6809
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:12 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 17):
as mentioned before, first class is ofen very full booked on the route... .and you pay over 12.000 USD per ticket just for a 7 hour flight... not bad yield for such a short long-haul flight.... with this prices you can even sell some cheap eco tickets for 250 USD return.

No one is arguing that it's not profitable, just that it's not one of the most profitable.
With something like 20 daily flights on 5? different airlines, there's no way every single flight between JFK and LHR has F fully booked with paying passengers. How many of those are actually paying face value instead of pre-arranged corporate deals or "free" upgrades you'll probably never know either. Then how much cargo do those flights actually carry? I'd venture guessing that JFK-LHR is not a very busy cargo route.
 
IADLHR
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:25 pm

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting Dimondan (Reply 33):
has to be anything flying to Las Vegas

It would seem so but I think that LAS might be very, very low yield. Otherwise, UA, at least would not be flying Ted to LAS.
 
b777a340fan
Posts: 651
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:42 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 3):
I would say most things to Asia are more profitable

I agree, especially untapped markets such as India and China.
 
airlineecon
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:22 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:41 am

We don't have a consistent definition of "most profitable" Is it total profits? or some measure of profits per (something) profits per take off, profits per passenger etc. Profits would be (P*Q-C(Q)) where P is price Q is #tickets sold and C(Q) is the cost to fly Q passengers: costs primarily being labor, fuel, and rental of aircraft. Profits per passenger would be (P*Q-C(Q))/Q. Something like MSP-YQT might be very profitable on a per passenger basis, put there are very few passengers. JFK-LHR might be less profitable per passenger, but there are a lot of passengers so perhaps it is more profitable on a total profit basis.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:47 am

How do you determine profitability?

By Margin % (Percentage difference between Total Revenue and Total Cost excluding overhead)

or

By absolutes (Total Revenue - Total Cost excludiving overhead = profit before overhead).



I like to look at Margins, because they actually show what kind of return your getting on investment.
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2378
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Most Profitable US International Route!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 39):
Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 3):
I would say most things to Asia are more profitable

I agree, especially untapped markets such as India and China.

I wouldn't exactly call India an "untapped" market.....growing, yes....

DL, NW, CO and AA already fly drirect to BOM/DEL/BLR and AI flies to JFK/EWR/ORD/LAX....moreover, a number of Eurpoean carriers like BA, LH, AF, AZ and LX offer one stop (connecting) flights to India....

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests