Longhornmaniac
Topic Author
Posts: 2960
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:36 am

Anybody tried purchasing a fully refundable ticket, getting your boarding pass to get through security, then call and cancel the reservation once airside? It seems like it would work, provided you call before the flight is supposed to leave. I'm probably missing something (not to mention it would almost be an automatic SSSS with no checked bags, booked late), could anyone fill me in on what it would be.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6875
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:44 am

Many reports on FlyerTalk of people doing this - buy a full Y ticket, go through security, go to the airline's lounge, get ticket cancelled and refund processed. A good way to get airside if you don't have an airline club membership (I believe most let members airside to get to the lounge, even if not flying).
 
turpentyine
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:04 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:46 am

LMAO That is pretty rediculous. Ye you would prob undergo extra screening. I hope you have a credit card with a high limit because those tickets cost a lot.
 
User avatar
fxramper
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:03 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:47 am

In therory, it should work...

 airplane 
 
Longhornmaniac
Topic Author
Posts: 2960
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:07 am

Quoting Turpentyine (Reply 2):
LMAO That is pretty rediculous. Ye you would prob undergo extra screening. I hope you have a credit card with a high limit because those tickets cost a lot.

I agree, it is pretty ridiculous, but hey, a 1 way WN ticket fully refundable is only (I say only) $299. Actually, I could book a 1 way AUS-HOU ticket for tomorrow for $110. Spend $110 to get through security, call, cancel, get $110 (minus taxes and fees?) right back. Actually not a bad idea at all. But a 1-way fully refundable ticket purchased late with no checked bags is a recipe for having the army called on you, much less getting extra screening.  Silly.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:11 am

A better question: WHY would you want to this? What a waste of money... only to acheive what?
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
User avatar
sammyk
Posts: 1560
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 1999 11:31 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:17 am

To avoid the SSSS scrutiny couldn't you plan this out ahead of time? Anyway, not sure why you'd want to do this at AUS. Not a whole lot of variety there.
 
Longhornmaniac
Topic Author
Posts: 2960
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:17 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 5):
A better question: WHY would you want to this? What a waste of money... only to acheive what?

Aha, but you see, it doesn't waste any money. That's the whole point. You get to go spotting (the Why) with a great vantage point (for airports that have good spots inside the terminal), and because its a refundable ticket, no money is lost (save for taxes, I'm not sure sure if you get those back or not).

Either way, not a bad gimmick at all.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
Cactus742
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:18 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 5):
WHY would you want to this?

It's also a great way to meet someone at their gate if you're trying to impress someone. If they can't think of how you did it, it will definitely leave them wondering for quite a while!
Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 7):
(save for taxes, I'm not sure sure if you get those back or not).

You should get those back -- the taxes are predicated on a service (in this case transportation/security services/ect) being rendered... if the service isn't rendered, theoretically at least, the tax isn't due (if you return something to a store do you get sales tax back?) -- Actually, in therory, even with a non-refundable ticket, if canceled the taxes should be refunded but many airlines will assess an "administrative fee" equal to the amount of the taxes if you request a refund.

What you certainly wouldn't get back is the ticketing fee (or whatever they call the $5-$20 surcharge many airlines charge for buying a ticket at the airport or over the phone) unless you buy on line...but all-in-all not that bad an option if you really feel the need to get on the concourse, I guess.

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:23 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 7):
Either way, not a bad gimmick at all.

If you got money to blow... Good luck explaining this to the TSA and whatever cops that eventually nail you. Its hard enough to spot inside as it is let alone outside. This is all we need. People screwing with the system. Why cant you just wait til you have to fly to spot. Or hey, here is a novel idea: Spot ouside where its legal!
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
User avatar
Vasu
Posts: 2939
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:34 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:23 am

hahaha

That's actually one hell of an idea!

Do many airlines let you in the lounges if you purchase full fare Y class?
 
Longhornmaniac
Topic Author
Posts: 2960
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:30 am

Quoting Sammyk (Reply 6):
To avoid the SSSS scrutiny couldn't you plan this out ahead of time? Anyway, not sure why you'd want to do this at AUS. Not a whole lot of variety there.

Certainly, although even if it wasn't booked late, traveling 1 way with no bags is likely to turn some electronic heads, if you know what I mean.  Wink Yes yes yes, I know it's sad when I get excited about the prospect of having two AA 757s here at the same time, but we have plenty of variety. At least more than a lot of airports of our size.

I just had one bad thought, though: one you check in for the flight, would you still be able to cancel?

Lots of airlines, lots of different kinds of planes. Off the top of my head, we get:

Airlines and their regional affiliates:

AA/AE
MD-80
757-200
ERJ 140/145

CO
737 (300/500/700/800)
E145
757? (it seems like some days we get an afternoon 75')

NW
DC9
CR2

DL
MD-88
E145 (to MCO?)
CR2
E170

UA
737-300
A319/20(?)
CR2
CR7

B6
E190

F9
A319

WN
737-300/500/700

Not too shabby. Boring, but not too shabby.  Smile

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
beefstew25
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:40 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:48 am

When I used to work for a local TV sports department, we would buy refundable tickets to be the first to interview various sports personalities when they first got off an incoming flight. We would book the ticket at the station, head to the airport, get through security, then call and cancel the ticket. Free all the way. Plus the surprised look on the coach/player/celebrity when they got off the plane to cameras in their face was priceless.
MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....
 
Longhornmaniac
Topic Author
Posts: 2960
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 10):
If you got money to blow... Good luck explaining this to the TSA and whatever cops that eventually nail you. Its hard enough to spot inside as it is let alone outside. This is all we need. People screwing with the system. Why cant you just wait til you have to fly to spot. Or hey, here is a novel idea: Spot ouside where its legal!

I do understand/ respect your point, however I don't really feel that the TSA and/or cops would have any issue, considering unless I'm missing something, I'm not doing anything illegal. To them, I'm just another person with a boarding pass. I honestly don't feel that I'm "screwing with the system." Again, I don't even think I would ever do this, but I don't see anything wrong with it from an airport standpoint. In my opinion, if anyone were to take issue with this, it would be the airlines.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
BDL2DCA
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:46 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:53 am

I did this to meet my Dad at IAD (where he was connecting) and get him into the Red Carpet Club. Bought a round-trip ticket and bought it a couple days ahead of time on United.com. When it was time for his flight to leave, I canceled the ticket and told the RCC person "I won't be traveling today.

No extra screening. The RCC lady raised an eyebrow, but that was the extent of it.
146,319,320,321,333,343,722,732,733,734,735,73G,738,744,752,762,763,772,ARJ,BE1,CRJ,D9S,D10,DH8,ERJ,E70,F100,S80
 
Rivet42
Posts: 603
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:26 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:56 am

Surely if you've checked in, and passed through security, then the airline is likely to say "Tough!" if you turn round and say you don't want to fly after all. I would have thought that, especially in US, the security people are likely to take a very dim view of this, because the implication to them would be that you had no intention of flying but just wanted access to the secure area (which is actually true, but not - to you - in a suspicious way!). The airline might even call them to escort you back through security, and you could end up on their list of suspicious persons (which could also attract the attention of the FBI), which surely as an aviation enthusiast you'd want to do everything you can to avoid.

All in all, in this age of paranoia, especially around airports, this doesn't seem to be particularly well thought out. Sorry!  Smile

PhiL P
I travel, therefore I am.
 
User avatar
fxramper
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:03 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:57 am

Cam.

You should do it, and write a trip report.  yes 

Is this something your considering?
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Thread starter):
Anybody tried purchasing a fully refundable ticket, getting your boarding pass to get through security, then call and cancel the reservation once airside?

Just one question....?? Why...?? I'm lost as to why you would want to waste money on something like that...? What is the point of buying a ticket just to get through security.......?? I can't think of one airline that gives a full cash refund. Most only offer you full credit to a second ticket...and even then you only have 90 days to use it.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:04 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18):
Most only offer you full credit to a second ticket...and even then you only have 90 days to use it.

Depends entirely upon the type of ticket you buy. For example, on Continental, a Y-class ticket that was purchased online will be refunded (entirely) to the original form of payment if canceled before departure, I think it's the same deal with N and H, but I can't remember. On CO cancelling a standard nonrefundable ticket will get you a travel voucher for the value of the ticket minus a $50 admin. fee and you have a year to use it; only the deeply-discounted (Q, V, etc.) have the bizare $100 admin. fee, days starting with "T" in the first phase of the moon rules.

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
mtnwest1979
Posts: 1780
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:23 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:05 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18):
Just one question....?? Why...?? I'm lost as to why you would want to waste money on something like that...? What is the point of buying a ticket just to get through security.......?? I can't think of one airline that gives a full cash refund. Most only offer you full credit to a second ticket...and even then you only have 90 days to use it.

Man, have you read any of the above posts??

It doesn't cost if you get a fully-refundable ticket (hence the term) and cancel prior to departure.

As to why, how much of an aviation enthusiast are you? If any, you should know why.

Also, the TSA has enough trouble dealing with their own issues. They probably couldn't keep track of a passenger not flying even in the smallest airport.

Finally, just tell whoever you are getting the refund from that ' your company has cancelled the meeting you were going to'. Not that they are due a reason of any sort anyway.

This somewhat reminds me of when on "Seinfeld" when they went to the NY airports and George had Kramer buy tickets to get the miles, then he was going to get a refund, but Kramer got a 'good deal' on Non-refundable tickets.

[Edited 2007-03-19 04:07:42]
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
jetstar
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:10 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 10):
Good luck explaining this to the TSA and whatever cops that eventually nail you.

You would not have to explain anything to the TSA, once you receive your boarding pass, as far as their concerned you are a passenger flying out. If you do not get the SSSS on your boarding pass then they would treat you the same way as other passengers.

I have be SSSS’d and it is no great deal, just a more detailed inspection, the less you have with you the less they have to inspect.

Once through security, I would just call the airline and tell them you have to cancel the trip, you do not have to give them any reason why and they will cancel you and free up your seat and refund your money back to your credit card.

As long as you do not stand out while spotting, like carrying a camera with a large telephoto lens you should be okay, just blend in. At some airports the bars inside security usually have a great view of the ramp and you can just order a beer and sit by the windows. If you have a camera with a regular or small telephoto and take some pictures out of the windows, it should not raise any concern. I have done it myself with no problems. I would not take pictures of people around the gate area, gate agents or airline crew or when they are boarding, this will make you stand out.

If you do this, check in about 3 hours before departure and cancel as soon as you go through security, this way it gives the airline time to book any standby’s who might need to get on this flight, don’t cancel 15 minutes before departure.
 
spaceshipone
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:15 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:12 am

If travelling on WN, you can purchase a ticket, print the boarding pass online, and go through security without any issue. You need not cancel the ticket on WN and will have a full year to use the credit when using a non-refundale ticket. I travel often and have not checked a bag in well over ten years; I often travel without any carry on as well. No flags will be raised and cannot imagine any laws broken.

I considered doing just this to see the A380 land at LAX tomorrow, but I decided the view is better from In N Out.
 
iad51fl
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:21 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:15 am

Why does it matter how he lawfully got through security... he/she WENT through security. I could see if he/she was doing something to bypass security, ya thats not good. But as long as you pass through security, I could care less.

Chris
Enjoying the view of KIAH approach end of 27. 29.980548, -95.271201
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13730
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:20 am

You can buy a fully refundable ticket the day before, print out your boarding pass, then get the refund right then. The TSA does not check that you are on the flight, only that you have a boarding pass for the flight.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
copter808
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:29 am

There are better ways to get past security, but I won't recommend it due to your age.

You don't think it might attract attention when you check in for the flight, then decide not to board it? Sure would raise a red flag in my book! I would darned well want to make sure that you did NOT check any bags and that you had NOT been on the aircraft at any point.

If I figured your little scheme out, we would be having a little heart-to-heart chat and YOU would no longer be in control of the situation.

Was there any Criminal laws broken? Quite likely there was. Remember, your INTENT was to fraudulantly bypass security, having no intent to ever board the aircraft. Remember, there are not only Federal laws you need to think about, but State and Local as well.

Now, could you get away with it? Probably yes. Just how lucky do you feel today?
 
Longhornmaniac
Topic Author
Posts: 2960
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:30 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 17):
Cam.

You should do it, and write a trip report.

Is this something your considering?

I should, shouldn't I Drew? That'd be an experience. I'll have to think about it one day.  Smile I hadn't really thought about it until tonight, and I don't know if I'm seriously considering it, but I'm definately "considering" it. That'd be fun!

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
User avatar
fxramper
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:03 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:31 am

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 20):
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18):
Just one question....?? Why...?? I'm lost as to why you would want to waste money on something like that...? What is the point of buying a ticket just to get through security.......?? I can't think of one airline that gives a full cash refund. Most only offer you full credit to a second ticket...and even then you only have 90 days to use it.

Man, have you read any of the above posts??

 checkmark 

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 24):
You can buy a fully refundable ticket the day before, print out your boarding pass, then get the refund right then. The TSA does not check that you are on the flight, only that you have a boarding pass for the flight.

 redflag 
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:43 am

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 20):
Man, have you read any of the above posts??

Yes, I have read them and I'm still at a loss as to the way. Just to 'spot' planes....??? I can think of far better things to do and ways to spend my money. You might also want to read the fine print on the ticket. I would not be suprised that if you accept the boarding pass, you accepted the contract of carrage... thus the ticket has been used and can not be cancelled.

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 20):
As to why, how much of an aviation enthusiast are you? If any, you should know why

I work in commercial aviation. It's a job.

[Edited 2007-03-19 04:50:02]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
User avatar
sammyk
Posts: 1560
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 1999 11:31 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:46 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 12):
CO
737 (300/500/700/800)

They get the -900 too.
 
Longhornmaniac
Topic Author
Posts: 2960
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:51 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 28):
Just to 'spot' planes....??? I can think of far better things to do and ways to spend my money.

Well, again, even if you had to spend money (which many of us have explicitly said we won't), who are you to be telling others that they shouldn't do it? If you can think of something better to do, don't do it then.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 28):
I work in commercial aviation. It's a job.

I respect your job (and if it's in commericial aviation, probably wish I had it), however some of us do enjoy planes, and want to be around them as much as possible, too. If it is a way to get closer to the things we love, why shouldn't we do it, provided its not breaking any rules? If you don't see any practical value in doing it, then don't, and I'll respect that. However, you make it sound as if you're trying to tell those of us that might like to do it that it is a bad/stupid idea, which isn't right. To each their own.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
Longhornmaniac
Topic Author
Posts: 2960
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:53 am

Quoting Sammyk (Reply 29):
They get the -900 too.

Ah yes, and I forgot HP/US which brings in 737-300, A320, and CR9s, too.

Thanks!

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13730
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:02 pm

Quoting FXramper (Reply 27):
 redflag 

What do check marks and red flags contribute?

I'm not saying I would ever do what I suggested, but I know it can be done, people do it, and nothing happens to them. There was one guy who was forging boarding passes to get through security, and they arrested him but never charged him with anything. Printing a valid boarding pass is not forgery.

As for the cop who acts so cop like above...

If you have no intent to do any harm, you aren't going to get arrested. Period. The feds and cops release people who do much, much more egregious things on airplanes and at airports than to just go inside to watch planes.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7795
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:13 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 30):
who are you to be telling others that they shouldn't do it?

I never once said you should not be doing it. Only I don't see the point..... to each there own. I can just think of better way to be spending money then to walk through security and look at planes.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 30):
I respect your job (and if it's in commericial aviation, probably wish I had it)

After a while, you'd look at it just like I do... a job. You'll be tired of smelling like jet fuel.. which you take home then then your home smells like jet fuel. Getting so dity it takes two showers just to try and get clean... and then your still dirty. Sure it's cool to work with E190's, E175's E170, E145's and Legacys all day... but its just a job
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
Longhornmaniac
Topic Author
Posts: 2960
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:28 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 33):
I never once said you should not be doing it. Only I don't see the point..... to each there own. I can just think of better way to be spending money then to walk through security and look at planes.

Fair enough. I agree, if I do wind up having to spend money to do it, than I wouldn't do it. If I really can get a full cash refund (which I'm led to believe you can), then I might consider it. I agree, no sense in paying a good deal of money just to see planes from the inside, though.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 33):
After a while, you'd look at it just like I do... a job. You'll be tired of smelling like jet fuel.. which you take home then then your home smells like jet fuel. Getting so dity it takes two showers just to try and get clean... and then your still dirty. Sure it's cool to work with E190's, E175's E170, E145's and Legacys all day... but its just a job

Well, I suppose you probably wouldn't be doing it if you didn't enjoy being around planes, so from that angle, I am jealous that you get to be, however, as with any job, it does have its downsides.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
star_world
Posts: 943
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:52 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:34 pm

Quoting Copter808 (Reply 25):
There are better ways to get past security, but I won't recommend it due to your age.

You don't think it might attract attention when you check in for the flight, then decide not to board it? Sure would raise a red flag in my book! I would darned well want to make sure that you did NOT check any bags and that you had NOT been on the aircraft at any point.

If I figured your little scheme out, we would be having a little heart-to-heart chat and YOU would no longer be in control of the situation.

Was there any Criminal laws broken? Quite likely there was. Remember, your INTENT was to fraudulantly bypass security, having no intent to ever board the aircraft. Remember, there are not only Federal laws you need to think about, but State and Local as well.

Now, could you get away with it? Probably yes. Just how lucky do you feel today?

One word - relax  Smile

This whole "sir yes sir" attitude probably will scare some of the 12 year-olds around here, but in all honesty - get over it!

But a few points:

1. The topic here does NOT refer to anyone deciding not to board without telling the airline. In many cases, to obtain the refund on a refundable ticket this must be done before the time of departure.

2. There is absolutely nothing illegal about what has been described here. Federal, state, city, rent-a-cop, whatever. I would estimate that out of 150+ trips I take a year I probably have 5 or 6 a year where the meeting I was due to attend got canceled while I was in the airport waiting to depart, and I've canceled the ticket right there. What makes this any more "legal" - because my "boss" can vouch for the fact that the meeting didn't happen? Sure  Smile

3. I can absolutely guarantee that any "heart to heart" that resulted from a situation such as this would come to a very abrupt end without any loss of control of the situation. Again, I would be most grateful if you could enlighten us on the alleged laws that are being broken here.

Overall - I've never had any great desire to do what has been described in this topic, but if I ever did I certainly wouldn't be stopped by some rent-a-cop on a power trip. Hope the OP enjoys if they try  Smile
 
zrs70
Posts: 3300
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:35 pm

On many airlines, you don't even need a refundable ticket. United, for example, allows you to refund any ticket within 24 hours of buying it.
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:37 pm

Quoting Cactus742 (Reply 8):
It's also a great way to meet someone at their gate if you're trying to impress someone. If they can't think of how you did it, it will definitely leave them wondering for quite a while!

Is that you, flairport?
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
spaceshipone
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:15 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:53 pm

Quoting Copter808 (Reply 25):
You don't think it might attract attention when you check in for the flight, then decide not to board it? Sure would raise a red flag in my book! I would darned well want to make sure that you did NOT check any bags and that you had NOT been on the aircraft at any point.

If I figured your little scheme out, we would be having a little heart-to-heart chat and YOU would no longer be in control of the situation.

Was there any Criminal laws broken? Quite likely there was. Remember, your INTENT was to fraudulantly bypass security, having no intent to ever board the aircraft. Remember, there are not only Federal laws you need to think about, but State and Local as well.

My understanding is that TSA's job is to confirm that a passenger has a boarding pass and to check to make sure no weapons etc. are taken through the security screening. There is no attempt here to "bypass security".

I have on several occasions checked in for a flight and not taken the flight without contacting the airline. On some passenger friendly airlines there are absolutely no penalties for a no show and full credit is availale within minutes of the flights' departure. Additionally there are no change fees to rebook a future flight.
 
lotsamiles
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 1:22 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:45 pm

I've done this once before for a work assignment. Just bought a one way ticket, cheapest I could find out of MSP. Spent the whole day watching NWA ramp ops. Nobody even bothered with me as I took notes and timed the activity at at various gates. Boring as hell but it got the job done.
 
Longhornmaniac
Topic Author
Posts: 2960
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:48 pm

Quoting Copter808 (Reply 25):
There are better ways to get past security, but I won't recommend it due to your age.

You don't think it might attract attention when you check in for the flight, then decide not to board it? Sure would raise a red flag in my book! I would darned well want to make sure that you did NOT check any bags and that you had NOT been on the aircraft at any point.

If I figured your little scheme out, we would be having a little heart-to-heart chat and YOU would no longer be in control of the situation.

Was there any Criminal laws broken? Quite likely there was. Remember, your INTENT was to fraudulantly bypass security, having no intent to ever board the aircraft. Remember, there are not only Federal laws you need to think about, but State and Local as well.

Now, could you get away with it? Probably yes. Just how lucky do you feel today?

Well, based on the way you talk, you sound like some sort of law enforcement agent. If so, I very much respect your point. If not, I still respect your point. However, I'm not sure I agree with you about my intent. Trust me, I am one of the most cautious people you will ever meet when it comes to breaking laws. My intent is most certainly not to bypass security. My intent is to get as close to the planes as anybody else inside security. And this certainly means meeting the same scrutiny (read security) as anybody else who wishes to get airside, for whatever reason. As given by other testimony here, there are many other people here who ultimately perform the same action as I potentially would (albeit not intentionally), and no problems arise.

I don't know what sort of heart-to-heart would need to be had, even if my "evil plan" was discovered. I did not break any laws (after all, I cannot even begin to imagine that there is a law federal or not, that says that everybody who goes through security must board a plane), was not trying to elude any airport official or security person, and would willingly submit to any extra searches required to confirm that I have nothing to hide. While I would certainly be cancelling my reservation for a reason far different from most, the airlines don't ask (and under law, I don't believe are allowed to), so my rationale is a non-issue as far as the airlines are concerned. Unless you know something I don't (which you may very well), I see no legal issue with this idea.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
Longhornmaniac
Topic Author
Posts: 2960
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:50 pm

Quoting Lotsamiles (Reply 39):
I've done this once before for a work assignment. Just bought a one way ticket, cheapest I could find out of MSP. Spent the whole day watching NWA ramp ops. Nobody even bothered with me as I took notes and timed the activity at at various gates. Boring as hell but it got the job done.

Just curious, was it refundable, and if so, A) how did you go about doing that, and B) did any problems arise?

Thanks for the info!

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
unattendedbag
Posts: 2154
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:35 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:16 pm

Quoting Copter808 (Reply 25):
If I figured your little scheme out, we would be having a little heart-to-heart chat and YOU would no longer be in control of the situation.

Who are you? What is this "YOU would no longer be in control of the situation." bullshit?

Quoting Copter808 (Reply 25):
Remember, your INTENT was to fraudulantly bypass security,

No one has said anything about "bypassing" secutiry. Have YOU even read the proir posts?

Whether I had an actual meeting or not, I followed the rules. I bought a full-fare/refundable ticket and I processed through security. TSA is there to eliminate threats to aircraft and human. THAT'S IT! TSA is not there to verify whether or not I get to my meeting on time or if I have one at all.
Slower traffic, keep right
 
jetBlue
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:18 pm

I have actually done this exact thing before.

About a year and a half ago, I was taking a friend to DFW to fly back home. He had not been on the new SkyLink train, and I was dying to ride the train with him.

So I kindly asked the ticket agent if she would allow me to go through with him to ride the train. She sternly responded, "No, we would get heavily fined for allowing you to go through."

Not wanting to argue, I acknowledged her response and immediately called Delta reservations.

Booked a fully refundable Y class ticket on the flight to ATL for about $600 and immediately printed my boarding pass from the kiosk.

Went through security with no problem, I don't recall having the SSSS on the boarding pass, although it's possible. After riding the train, I went to the gate agent and advised I would not be taking the flight, so he offloaded me.

When I left the secure area I called DL back and asked for a refund.


The funny thing is the charge never even appeared on my credit card!

jetBlue
We know for you it's not just a seat on a flight to a place. It's a seat on a flight to your life.
 
star_world
Posts: 943
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:52 am

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:09 pm

Quoting JetBlue (Reply 43):

The funny thing is the charge never even appeared on my credit card!

I've had this happen with several airlines when I've canceled the flight within 24-48 hours of purchase. Often just an authorization is made on your card first to verify that it will clear, but the actual charges are processed later.
 
hz747300
Posts: 1906
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:14 pm

I like the idea!!! I would do it in Australia to buy duty-free then come back and sell the goods on the street thereby beating the GST. It would be a good system in other GST locations too!!! However, how would you explain to customs that you just left and changed your mind, or 'something came up'.
Keep on truckin'...
 
Kevin777
Posts: 951
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:23 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 5):
A better question: WHY would you want to this? What a waste of money... only to acheive what?



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18):
Just one question....?? Why...?? I'm lost as to why you would want to waste money on something like that...? What is the point of buying a ticket just to get through security.......?? I can't think of one airline that gives a full cash refund. Most only offer you full credit to a second ticket...and even then you only have 90 days to use it.

Well, here's a nother reason for doing it: At CPH, there were problems a year ago with pocket thieves airside, where poeple were easy targets, because you wouldn't suspect a pocket thief at an airport after security, would you?? Anyways, they caught a gang of Eastern European guys who bought fully flexible tickets, checked in well in advance, "did their jobs", got their refund and went out of the airport. So that's another reason...

Kevin777  Smile
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
unattendedbag
Posts: 2154
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:35 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:45 pm

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 45):
However, how would you explain to customs that you just left and changed your mind, or 'something came up'.

hehe, I don't think we are talking about selling duty free alcohol in the alley behind the terminal. I doubt anyone is going to buy a ticket out of the country just to get through security to photograph airplanes.

[Edited 2007-03-19 11:48:18]
Slower traffic, keep right
 
cchan
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 8:54 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:54 pm

This is mere selfishness! It is such a waste of other people's time and effort to deal with selfish idiots like this. Grow up and be considerate to other people! Before one think about doing this, one need to think about if one has taken the last seat of a flight for the fun of it and someone out there is desperate to get to his/her very ill parent at the hospital. Airline service agents have better things to do than cancelling these type of tickets! How many people are inconveniced by this type of reckless behaviour?

Isn't it that you are considered to have "used" the ticket once you have checked in?!

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 45):
I like the idea!!! I would do it in Australia to buy duty-free then come back and sell the goods on the street thereby beating the GST. It would be a good system in other GST locations too!!! However, how would you explain to customs that you just left and changed your mind, or 'something came up'.

You basically can't do that. Most countries only allow duty free purchases if the passenger left the country for more than (at least) 24 hours, otherwise it is illegal.
 
AJMIA
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:29 pm

RE: Buying Fully Refundable Ticket To Get Airside?

Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:18 pm

I have seen members of the media do this to try to get an interview or cover the arrival of a noted person.

At AA MIA if they buy the ticket from us at our Future Ticketing Counter and we realize what they are doing we will refuse to refund it when they come out. They will still get their money back by sending the ticket in to refund accounting in Tulsa, but it will take some time and we do not want to make it easy for them.

I don't think there is anything explicitly illegal about it.

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: TUGMASTER and 10 guests