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Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlines

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:09 am

There was once a topic why no US airlines are operating the B777-300 aircraft. Since then I thought of other Boeing aircraft which never flew with US airlines.

I think of these three that never flew with US airlines:

Boeing 737-600
Reason: too heavy for its size (I think that's why Continental decided not to buy it) and too high CASM

Boeing 747-300
Reason: the 400 variant was announced just two years after the 300 entered service, Northwest launched it and United followed not long after, they only two US carriers operating large fleets of 747's to the Pacific Rim, so the 300 wasn't appealing to the US majors.

Boeing 777-300/300ER
300 non ER
Reason: the US majors don't need high capacity aircraft on domestic routes, they need increased frequency on their major trunk routes.
300 ER
Reason: it is offered only with GE engines. NW and UA would have considered buying it if it was offered with PW engines. The only airline I see buying that one is CO but they don't really need it for the markets they cover in their worldwide network.

Can you think of other Boeing aircraft which were never ordered by US airlines? I don't see any others besides the three above.

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bmacleod
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:15 am

747-200SR Only flew with NH and JL.

Quoting American 767 (Thread starter):
300 ER
Reason: it is offered only with GE engines. NW and UA would have considered buying it if it was offered with PW engines. The only airline I see buying that one is CO but they don't really need it for the markets they cover in their worldwide network.

UA and NW's 744s are aging quite fast and so far they are not interested in the 747-8. I wouldn't be surprised if they suddenly change their position of PW-only engines and order the GE 777-300ER.....

[Edited 2007-03-20 18:22:40]
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:19 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 1):
7-200SR Only flew with NH and JL

I believe it was designed especially for them; wasn't wanted or needed by anyone else. The 787-300 seems to be following in its footsteps (or tiremarks).
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting American 767 (Thread starter):
300 ER
Reason: it is offered only with GE engines. NW and UA would have considered buying it if it was offered with PW engines.

Where did you get that idea from? NW and UA didn't order it because they didn't need it. If they need the plane and it only has GE engines, well guess what...UA and NW are using GE engines.
 
flynavy
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:21 am

The 747-400ER comes to mind, since Qantas is the only operater of the type. The 757-200M (a combi version) is only operated by Royal Nepal Airlines, in fact only one was ever produced. 737-700C's fly in the United States, but not with airlines. The US Navy Reserve operates them, and they are replacing aging C-9B Skytrains.
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gregarious119
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:29 am

The 747-400D is only flown within Asia (and I think more specifically Japan) if I'm not mistaken.
 
LXA340
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:06 am

There is also no US airline flying this version of the Boeing 767-300, (B767-3BG) which was I think the newest version available.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0573943/L/
 
EI321
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:09 am

The 2707  airplane 

The 787-3 is one (for the moment)
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 6):
(B767-3BG)

BG belongs to flightlease according to Boeing codes. So AA, UA, NA, DL fly the 763ER.

MCOflyer
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:12 am

No airline in the US has flown a C 747 model in pax config. They've flown them in (F) configs.

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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 7):
The 2707

Considering that it never flew, it's not all that surprising.
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:16 am

I think it's a safe bet we'll never see THIS plane operated by a U.S. airline:


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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 6):
There is also no US airline flying this version of the Boeing 767-300, (B767-3BG) which was I think the newest version available.

That would be considered a 767-300 of which there are many US carriers that operate it. Unlike Airbus the last two characters of the aircraft model are operator specific. For example DL is always 32, so a 777-200 with delta would be the 777-232 which is no different it is just delta's. CO is 24 UA is 22 Singapore is 12 when Boeing ran out of numbers they started using letters too. The identifier does stay with the airplane though like for example the 767s that delta has from gulf air are different identifiers than the ones that they bought. I identifier is used when it rolls of the line and it stays with it. I will put the disclaimer here that this is how I understand the system it may or may not be totaly correct if someone knows differently.
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philb
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:35 am

You can add the B747-100SR, B747-100SR/SUD, B747-200SR and B747-300SR- at least in passenger service although a 100FSR is currently with Kalitta Air and, of course, NASA's second Shuttle carrier is a 100SR.
 
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:35 am

Quote:
That would be considered a 767-300 of which there are many US carriers that operate it. Unlike Airbus the last two characters of the aircraft model are operator specific. For example DL is always 32, so a 777-200 with delta would be the 777-232 which is no different it is just delta's. CO is 24 UA is 22 Singapore is 12 when Boeing ran out of numbers they started using letters too. The identifier does stay with the airplane though like for example the 767s that delta has from gulf air are different identifiers than the ones that they bought. I identifier is used when it rolls of the line and it stays with it. I will put the disclaimer here that this is how I understand the system it may or may not be totaly correct if someone knows differently.

You are indeed correct in your point. After the Boeing model number is a three digit designation. The first number indicates the particular type of that model, and the second and third number and/or letter combination indicate the customer that this plane was made for.

A 767-222 indicates that the product is a -200 model (the first 2), and the second and third two's indicate United Airlines. A 767-231 would indicate a -200 model for TWA (31).

However, sometimes an airline cancels an order for airplanes and ends up re-selling them to someone else. In that case, the plane's designation can be changed; however, if the airplane is sold to another airline - whether new or used - it retains the Boeing designation throughout its life.
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mpdpilot
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:37 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 14):
You are indeed correct in your point. After the Boeing model number is a three digit designation. The first number indicates the particular type of that model, and the second and third number and/or letter combination indicate the customer that this plane was made for.

A 767-222 indicates that the product is a -200 model (the first 2), and the second and third two's indicate United Airlines. A 767-231 would indicate a -200 model for TWA (31).

However, sometimes an airline cancels an order for airplanes and ends up re-selling them to someone else. In that case, the plane's designation can be changed; however, if the airplane is sold to another airline - whether new or used - it retains the Boeing designation throughout its life.

thanks for the clarification you are more articulate than I was.
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KELPkid
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:06 am

How about the 737-100?

Although CO eventually ended up with a few (by way of PeopleExpress), it was only ever ordered by Lufthansa...
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:12 am

Boeing 707-138 and -138B - only Qantas.

Was the 737-100 operated by anyone other than Lufthansa?
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:17 am

SQ had several ( actually I think it was MSA which was the predecessor of both SQ and MH ) , I think AV had two new build ones for a little while as well
 
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 16):
How about the 737-100?

I thought Aloha had some too; but in any case the thread is about Boeing planes that never flew for US airlines, not ordered by them.
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:19 am

Quoting American 767 (Thread starter):
Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlines



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 16):
How about the 737-100?

You answered your own question:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 16):
Although CO eventually ended up with a few (by way of PeopleExpress),

They are both US airlines therefore the 737-100 wouldent count...
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:23 am

There's also the -400 series 707's (RR Conway powered...) Very popular in former British territories  Smile
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philb
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 17):
Boeing 707-138 and -138B - only Qantas.

Sorry, you are wrong. The following US airlines flew B707-138s after QANTAS sold them:

Standard Airways
Alaska Airlines
Aeroamerica
Braniff

In addition a number of leasing companies in the US had various -138s at various times.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 21):
There's also the -400 series 707's (RR Conway powered...)

What about msn 18413 N4465C operated for over 6 years by Cobra Airways after Europe Aero Service sold it?
Also three of the ex Lufthansa machines operated for at least 2 US leasing companies and RDC Marine Inc operated an ex Varig machine as N59RD.

B737-100 US operators were:

Peoplexpress
Continental
America West
Challenge Air International
Air Florida

A number of leasing companies in the US held various airframes at various times and the 737-100 srs prototype was taken by NASA
 
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:33 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 3):
Where did you get that idea from? NW and UA didn't order it because they didn't need it. If they need the plane and it only has GE engines, well guess what...UA and NW are using GE engines.

Although that was not the premise for the 300 decision, NW did at one point have a policy that they would ONLY order aircraft equipped with Pratt & Whitney engines, no exceptions, so there is some truth to what he is saying. Of course, that policy is long gone.
Good goes around!
 
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:36 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 14):
You are indeed correct in your point. After the Boeing model number is a three digit designation. The first number indicates the particular type of that model, and the second and third number and/or letter combination indicate the customer that this plane was made for.

That considered, I wonder how they will handle the 787. For example, if DL orders the 787 would it be a 787-832, or would they drop the customer designation?
Good goes around!
 
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:41 pm

Quoting Philb (Reply 22):
B737-100 US operators were:

Peoplexpress
Continental
America West
Challenge Air International
Air Florida

As were AirCal and American.
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khenleydia
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:42 pm

I thought that the 737-600 was flown by AirTran...

As for Qantas being the only airline flying the 747-400ER, I thought BA had them too, but disabled the fuel tank in the rear of some of the planes.

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semobeila
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:08 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 11):
I think it's a safe bet we'll never see THIS plane operated by a U.S. airline:

Actually, these planes are operated for Boeing by Evergreen International!
 
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:13 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 11):
think it's a safe bet we'll never see THIS plane operated by a U.S. airline:

Evergreen Airlines will be doing the flying of these birds once they are certified.

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 26):
I thought that the 737-600 was flown by AirTran...

Nope, only the 737-700, and 200 in a past life.
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philb
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:00 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 25):
Quoting Philb (Reply 22):
B737-100 US operators were:

Peoplexpress
Continental
America West
Challenge Air International
Air Florida

As were AirCal and American.

They had 2 737-159s which were built for Avianca sold to the West German Air Force and then passed to Aloha before going to Air Cal who still had them when they merged with American.
 
dxBrian
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:29 pm

As AirTran737 noted, the Dreamlifter will be operated by Evergreen Airlines, which is a US based all cargo airline. Their HQ and base of operations are in Oregon.
 
bmacleod
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RE: Boeing Aircraft That Never Flew With US Airlin

Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:45 am

Hopefully the 777-300ER will be deleted from this list soon. Has anyone heard what UA or NW will replace their older 744s with or do yet have a widebody fleet renewal plan?
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