mnevans
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What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:50 pm

I was reading the CO 777s thread and this came to me. As a traveler who say has to do the same trip 2 times a month, would you rather have more scheduling options or a bigger a/c? I also pose the same question to airlines as well? Seems to me that CO takes the more a/c option, which I think is the better one. I would think that domestic/international route as well as length come in to play, but those being equal, what do you guys think?
 
Eirjet
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:54 pm

I would choose the 'more flights' option.

Although there may be some airline(s) out there whose strategy better suits the 'bigger aircraft' school of thought.

Eirjet
Aviation has a 100% record, we've never left one up there......
 
HAL
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:58 pm

That really depends on how the loads and bookings are set up. If you have a thousand people who want to fly a particular route during a given day, you have to find out when they want to fly. If they're evenly distributed throughout the day, fly several smaller aircraft. If they all want to go in the morning (or evening, etc) fly fewer but larger aircraft. These sort of trends can be figured out based on booking preferences made over the phone or website. The point for the airline is to decide what the passengers want, and then try to provide it.

There really isn't a one-size-fits-all answer to your question, since different routes have different results. Midweek LAX-SFO is mostly business travellers who probably want to go back and forth in the morning and evening. West coast to Hawaii is loaded for morning departures because most travellers are vacationers who want to get to the beach before sundown. In other words - welcome to the headache-inducing world of airline schedule planners. Big grin

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
ANother
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:59 pm

My preference would be for more scheduling options AND smaller aircraft. The same on both domestic (or short-haul) and international (or intercontinental) ops
 
na
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:00 am

I´m a strong supporter of the Big jets option.

To please just a few (mostly stressed businessmen) higher frequency with smaller a/c just means more fuel consumption and environmental pollution, more noise, higher "hardware" costs (two 787s will more than one 748I), less inflight comfort, more crews to pay for, etc., etc., and as a result higher fares. No thank you.
 
okie73
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:02 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 3):
My preference would be for more scheduling options AND smaller aircraft. The same on both domestic (or short-haul) and international (or intercontinental) ops

the problem is, depending on the airport, you can only fit some many flights into a single day. At some point, you can no longer add flights to increase capacity, you have to use bigger aircraft.
 
Clipper136
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:05 am

Easy Answer


For Passengers........More flights (more convenience, more options)

For Airlines..............Bigger aircraft (cost lest to operate 1 big aircraft, assuming they can fill it, than several small ones)
You can't beat the Experience.
 
JRadier
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:09 am

As with everything, it's a trade-off. Where the optimum is depends on a lot of factors like HAL said.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
MaverickM11
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:18 am

Quoting Mnevans (Thread starter):
As a traveler who say has to do the same trip 2 times a month, would you rather have more scheduling options or a bigger a/c?

Almost always, for most passengers. Frequency just about always trumps aircraft size, both from a passenger standpoint and an airline standpoint.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Arrow
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:25 am

Quoting NA (Reply 4):
To please just a few (mostly stressed businessmen) higher frequency with smaller a/c just means more fuel consumption and environmental pollution, more noise, higher "hardware" costs (two 787s will more than one 748I), less inflight comfort, more crews to pay for, etc., etc., and as a result higher fares. No thank you.

 checkmark 

The trend should be towards bigger planes, fewer trips. The skies are already crowded, fuel costs and crew costs will continue to rise, and if we're ever going to do anything to curb emissions, this is almost a no-brainer. The A380's day will come.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
na
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 6):
For Passengers........More flights (more convenience, more options)

For those passengers, who drive big gas-guzzlingSUVs, live in AC-equipped houses and who give a hell for whats happening to mother earth and their own grandchildren, and who don´t care for the dozens of millions living near airports.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting Arrow (Reply 9):
The trend should be towards bigger planes, fewer trips. The skies are already crowded, fuel costs and crew costs will continue to rise, and if we're ever going to do anything to curb emissions, this is almost a no-brainer. The A380's day will come.

Don't hold your breath Silly
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
nwa757boy
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:35 am

You want frequency? you get 10 ERJs/CRJs/daily going from point A to point B. You want a bigger A/C, you get a DC10/ 767 once or twice a day between point A and point B. The choice is yours, and yours alone Wink

And apparently the public wants frequency because you see more regional jets doing point A to point B with more frequencies than you see a widebody doing point A to point B with maybe one or two dailies. but that is all my 2cents.
 
777den
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:39 am

2 smaller planes may be more profitable if they can carry a combined total of more cargo
 
Kevin777
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:45 am

Quoting Arrow (Reply 9):
The trend should be towards bigger planes, fewer trips. The skies are already crowded, fuel costs and crew costs will continue to rise, and if we're ever going to do anything to curb emissions, this is almost a no-brainer. The A380's day will come.

What exactly do you build this on?? Firstly, skies aren't at capacity in most places yet, same goes for most airports by far. Per pax fuel costs and crew costs do decrease with the size of airplane, but only very modestly - pilots stay two, but crew has to be at least 1 per 50 seats on the plane anyway. Add to this that big ac require larger turnaround times and thus higher costs eventually in this sense. All this besides that large ac often can't even be filled on many routes once daily.

Look at Asia - large aircraft on short routes has been the rule there for years (look at SQ using 777 on SIN-KUL!) - but if costs are so much lower with larger ac, why isn't AirAsia flying the 330?

I think there is an interesting discussion here, but the "right" answer is hardly a "no-brainer"...  Smile

Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:50 am

I prefer the option of more flights.
I love ASO!
 
swiftski
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:09 am

I would say as a passenger, more flights, for the convenience factor, but from an airline [logistics] point of view, bigger aircraft and economisation of slots suits better.
 
GBan
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 6):
Easy Answer


For Passengers........More flights (more convenience, more options)

Not necessarily. I don't have much choice when to fly anyway: its in the morning, the evening, preferably over night for intercontinental trips. I very much prefer to be on larger aircraft.

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 14):
I think there is an interesting discussion here, but the "right" answer is hardly a "no-brainer"...

Kevin777

Exactly.
 
Kevin777
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting GBan (Reply 17):
I very much prefer to be on larger aircraft.

Me too.... Looking forward to T7s on Danish domestic some day..!  Wink

Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
bond007
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting GBan (Reply 17):
Not necessarily. I don't have much choice when to fly anyway: its in the morning, the evening, preferably over night for intercontinental trips. I very much prefer to be on larger aircraft.

Yes, this is always my argument when discussing all the LGA/DCA shuttles leaving every hour. They rarely leave on time, the airports are almost at capacity because of it, and whether I leave the office at 3:45pm or 4:45pm it's insignificant.
The 'hourly' flights to BOS are all very good from a marketing perspective, but come to DCA and you'll see some business travellers arriving 3hrs before their flight, and others 30 mins, some flights 15mins late, and others 50mins late. The turnaround time is minimal, so any type of delay on the inbound flight means a delay on the outbound.

Hey .... give me a 8:00pm flight on a B767, giving it a longer turnaround time, and maybe guarantee me better on-time service (and maybe cheaper fares), and I'll take it over those other 4 smaller flights anyday.

....and I'm one of those 'business travellers' that is supposed to be in awe of these hourly shuttles!

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting NA (Reply 10):
For those passengers, who drive big gas-guzzlingSUVs, live in AC-equipped houses and who give a hell for whats happening to mother earth and their own grandchildren, and who don´t care for the dozens of millions living near airports.

That's a ludicrous, political statement. Passengers everywhere will tend to favor more flexibility in flight times. Most passengers have no idea what type of aircraft they will be flying on, much less what the relative fuel efficiency of that aircraft might be. sarcastic 
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
na
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:41 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 20):
That's a ludicrous, political statement. Passengers everywhere will tend to favor more flexibility in flight times. Most passengers have no idea what type of aircraft they will be flying on

Ouch.... did I step on your feet? Of cause passengers would want flexibility out of laziness and because many are used to ever-growing comfort (to be drastic high frequency means hourly flights to every spot in the end), but they need to be teached that this comes with bad side-effects as I said before. Yes, my statement is a bit political, its meant that way, because our planet needs to think where to save the atmosphere from collapsing. That the world´s leading power is so reckless in environmental politics is a disgrace for your great country.

Higher and higher frequency is bare nonsense, that way the airline business will give a bad example to the world and open its doors wide to rightful critisism from green parties and responsible thinkers everywhere. Not long until a VAT will be added to kerosene fuel, and higher fares are the unwelcome first outcome.
 
AADC10
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:53 am

It depends on what you mean by "better." The number one reason for choosing a flight is schedule. Price is not far behind but definitely second. The public demands frequency, which means smaller planes.

From an efficiency and public infrastructure standpoint fewer flight with larger planes is "better." Larger planes burn less fuel per passenger and overall would leave lower pollution, less noise and fewer delays.

With deregulation, demand will win. In some cases regulation will have to step in or everything will fall apart which is why informal or formal slot restrictions are currently necessary at ORD and LGA. There would not be a problem if only mainline planes flew into those airports. They are clogged with RJs.

What will force airlines back to larger planes will be continued crowding at major airports causing slot restrictions, higher fuel prices which would force ticket prices on RJs high enough to override the schedule priority and airline consolidation which would reduce overlapping flights and move then to larger aircraft.

Personally, I hate flying in RJs. I wish every flight was a 767.
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting NA (Reply 21):
Ouch.... did I step on your feet?

 talktothehand  Nope. I'm as committed a tree-hugger as you'll ever find, but I recognize condescension and stupidity when I read it.

Quoting NA (Reply 21):
Of cause passengers would want flexibility out of laziness

A businessman who desires to schedule his time effectively is "lazy"? A common man who wishes to make a connecting flight without wasting his vacation time is "lazy"?

Quoting NA (Reply 21):
Higher and higher frequency is bare nonsense, that way the airline business will give a bad example to the world and open its doors wide to rightful critisism from green parties and responsible thinkers everywhere. Not long until a VAT will be added to kerosene fuel, and higher fares are the unwelcome first outcome.

If we take this thinking to the logical conclusion, I suppose you would favor eliminating air travel altogether. If higher frequency is bad, then the best possible case would be a frequency of zero. smile 
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
hb88
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:21 am

If you could answer this question, you'd silence the aBoeing fanboys and the Airbus-weenies in an instant in the endless threads about the viability of the A380.

Good luck with an answer! For me, it's a combination of both - I like big, comfortable a/c and to have them going wherever I want.
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:29 am

Quoting HB88 (Reply 24):
I like big, comfortable a/c and to have them going wherever I want.

Yes, but what about going whenever you want? The question (as I understand it) is whether you want to take an A350/B787 leaving right now, or would you rather wait some time and take an A380/B747?

Myself, I'll take the next flight, regardless of what type aircraft it is. smile 
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
747400sp
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:18 am

Bigger A/C! The more room the more confordable.
 
sllevin
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:21 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 21):
Of cause passengers would want flexibility out of laziness and because many are used to ever-growing comfort (to be drastic high frequency means hourly flights to every spot in the end), but they need to be teached that this comes with bad side-effects as I said before.

The proper thing you should be trying to teach is that the best trip for the planet is the trip not taken.

Once you are actually taking the trip, the difference to the planet is minimal between airplane types. The only way to make a large impact is to not travel at all.

And I agree with that. Not in the "never go anywhere" sense, but certainly, at a business level, there are many meetings that can be moved to videoconferencing, etc. In fact, I think we've already seen that decline in travel (although travel itself continues to grow overall).

Oh, and have we mentioned that surfing the internet and spending hours on a.net is bad for the environment as well. Go for a walk and turn off that computer!  Smile

Steve
 
CXfirst
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RE: What Is Better: More Flights Or Bigger A/c?

Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:42 pm

Bigger A/C - because, if I got a large aircraft (777) on a route that usually has a 757 or 737, I would usually get much better IFE. But for most biz travellers, I can see more flights being a better option.

-CXfirst

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