ogre727
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My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:59 pm

Hi everybody,

This Thursday I am taking my first flight on a BAe 146. Will be flight AF 5038 CDG-FLR. I am very excited as I have never been to that airport and its short runway either.

Any cool things you guys want to share with me on this aircraft? Are there any windowless seats I should avoid? any info will be appreciated.
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NorthstarBoy
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:34 pm

one thing i'd suggest is, if you want a view,sit either in front of or behind the wing, otherwise you won't see much of anything. other than that, i really liked the 146, i flew them quite a bit in college. compared to the standard RJs, they're very roomy inside, tall enough that you can actually stand up without hitting your head. they're also wide enough that they seem bigger than they actually are. Finally, they are noisy inside, thanks to the proximity of the engines to the fuselage. those four small engines combine together to produce quite a roar inside.

I'm sorry to say that the 146 is a disappearing breed, so enjoy them while you can.
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mycrj17
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:01 pm

And that sound of the flaps is a big roar as well...

Matt
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TriStar500
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:03 pm

Try to sit as far in front or in the back as possible, as the center seat rows will have the outside view blocked by the engines.
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F9Animal
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:46 pm

Quoting Mycrj17 (Reply 2):
And that sound of the flaps is a big roar as well...

Matt

Yes, the flaps bring on an awesome sound. I love flying on the 146, and it is by far one of my favorite birds. I prefer sitting further back, as it gives you a good view of everything. I did not find them to be too noisy, but much different sounding than the average plane. The 146 is becoming very rare here in the US, and I will do one last flight on one before I die. I wish someone would bring them back into production.

What is going on with AVRO? Is anyone going to try to keep them going?
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avion660
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:49 pm

Quote:
Try to sit as far in front or in the back as possible, as the center seat rows will have the outside view blocked by the engines.

Agreed, although it's strange whilst still on the ground...poor view through the windows, but watch those wings lift upon take off! Great view after that. Over the years I've flown on Bae 146 from Lan Chile, Dan air, and Debonair... sadly no one and nothing is flying with the last two anymore and LA's 146's are long gone too!

Have a great trip.
 
TriStar500
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:17 pm

Still lots of 146's in service in Germany with Eurowings, with some flights also serving the neighboring countries, so if you are looking for an inexpensive chance to get on BAe's original Quadjet, yout might want to check out Lufthansa (return flights starting at about 99 Euro incl. Taxes).
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PM
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:21 pm

Great plane (I'm lucky enough to have had 70+ flights on various models) but it's a shame that your first experience will be a cramped 6-abreast one. At 5-abreast it's a completely different story. Still, enjoy it!
 
SNATH
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:32 pm

Quoting Ogre727 (Thread starter):

Any cool things you guys want to share with me on this aircraft?

I personally love the 146s/Avros. But only in the 5-abreast config! As PM said, in a 6-abreast config they are appalling.

Something to keep in mind is that the overhead bins under the wing are considerably shorter than the rest.

Tony
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Strathpeffer
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:48 pm

Try and sit about 1/2 to 2/3s of the way back - so you get a good view of the flap mechanisms. They are complex and its not often that you get a chance to see them doing their stuff.

Pay close attention (with your ears) during the final stage of flap retraction and first stage of extension - there is quite a distinctive noise. It often causes panicked glances from those unfamiliar with the 146's foibles!

PJ

Edited to correct awful grammar...

[Edited 2007-07-23 14:51:59]
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United_fan
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:52 pm

Does anyone still use them in the US? I used to see XJ's in ROC all the time,even getting a nice pic of one in NW new-colors.
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ogre727
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:07 pm

Any comments on the airport in Florence? (short short runway)
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Eurohub
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 8):
I personally love the 146s/Avros. But only in the 5-abreast config! As PM said, in a 6-abreast config they are appalling

Agree 100% Tony, the 146 family is far and away my favourite aircraft type. I wouldn't say appalling though for the 6-abreast config; not the greatest I admit, but not the worst out there by a long shot!

Quoting Ogre727 (Thread starter):
Will be flight AF 5038 CDG-FLR

Try sitting up the back if you want to avoid the 6-abreast, the City Jet models go down to 4-abreast as the fuselage tapers in at the back. I had a very nice flight in the back of EI-CNQ (a 146-200) on AF5135 BHX-CDG at the end of last month!

Quoting United_Fan (Reply 10):
Does anyone still use them in the US? I used to see XJ's in ROC all the time,

I don't think so, I just did a quick search in the photo database and didn't come up with any operational birds this year. Most if not all of XJ's RJ85's are coming back across the pond to fly for Air France's City Jet subsidiary and replace their older 146 fleet.

Regards,
Eurohub
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helvknight
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:16 pm

Or fly on LX, I think all the birds are 5 abreast now. 6 abreast on a BAE146/RJ100 is cruel and unusual punishment.

If you have hand baggage also avoid (IIRC) rows 7-9 as these are directly under the wing and have very small bins.
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PM
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:18 pm

Any way you look at it this is a unique and classic airliner.

I've been fortunate enough to fly on 146-100, 146-200, 146-300, RJ85, RJ100 (the RJ70 has so far eluded me) a total of 76 times over 18 years on Dan-Air, Crossair, CityJet, DAT, Swiss and Ansett. I've loved every flight!
 
PM
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting Helvknight (Reply 13):
Or fly on LX, I think all the birds are 5 abreast now.

Even the ones acquired from BA? Excellent news!
 
helvknight
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:08 am

Quoting PM (Reply 15):
Even the ones acquired from BA? Excellent news!

I think so, I thought I had read on one of the Swiss threads that they had all got the new seats (the thin Recaro ones that LX put on the Airbii). I'll do a search and see .

Apparently the ones that came in straight from BA immediately got the new seats, I've IM'ed Sandro to see what the current status is.

[Edited 2007-07-23 18:14:05]
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egnr
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:23 am

I flew on British World Airlines BAe 146-300 G-BTNU in the 1990s, MAN-PMI and the return leg 2 weeks later. On the outbound flight, I was sat in the centre, adjacent to the engines. During cruise, a small amount of ice formed on the cabin wall between the windows, which was something I've not seen before or since!

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Other passengers on the flight dubbed the aircraft 'the chicken coop'. It was configured 6-abreast and in high density charter layout, about 115-120 seats. I also remember watching other aircraft overtake us en-route due to the 146's lower cruising speed compared to other jet aircraft.
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helvknight
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:27 am

Quoting Helvknight (Reply 16):
Apparently the ones that came in straight from BA immediately got the new seats, I've IM'ed Sandro to see what the current status is.

SandroZRH is pretty sure that the RJs have all been reseated and that they are all 3 + 2.

Thanks
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TriStar500
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:28 am

Quoting Helvknight (Reply 16):
I think so, I thought I had read on one of the Swiss threads that they had all got the new seats (the thin Recaro ones that LX put on the Airbii). I'll do a search and see .

I've flown on "Ottenberg" last week, it still got the old seats.
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ChinaClipper40
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting Ogre727 (Reply 11):
Any comments on the airport in Florence? (short short runway)

As you say, it's very short. And the terminal building can get uncomfortably crowded at times. But the airport is right in the city. Flying into it is the smart way to travel to Florence, rather than flying into Pisa and taking the train up into the hill country, as so many people do. If your hotel is anywhere near the Duomo (where most tourist hotels are located), your taxi ride will be very short and cheap. Or, you can take a city bus and save money. The distance is only about 4 km. Enjoy your flight. The BAe-146 is, with its successor AVROs, the most spacious and comfortable regional jet ever built (in the 5-across seating configuration). Oh yes, while in Florence, take a city bus up to Fiesole one evening and have dinner at a restaurant with a terrace or patio overlooking Florence. It's very pretty to watch the sunset, and the lights of Florence twinkling on as dusk settles over the city. Take a jacket, though. Even in summer it gets very cool in the evenings up in Fiesole. And be sure to take in the Basilica of San Lorenzo (center city Florence, near the Duomo). It looks like crap on the outside, because the outer facing of the church was never finished. But the inside is arguably the finest example of pure Renaissance architecture anywhere. Enjoy!

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Ellehammer
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:56 am

Flew the 146 more often than I can remember, EU charter flights Brussels-Strasbourg mostly. The wing mechanism is very cool indeed, though it doesn't come across as terribly streamlined.

I guess it is built in Canada. Do they still make them?

A fantastic proud history that company has. Whenever I board an AVRO I give a silent thanks to all the boys who flew them in WWII.
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:06 am

BAC were built in the UK. I only flew on 146's twice. One was AirBC before it was merged into Jazz. I flew from YEG to YVR in 1A. They had two rows of Executive Class if I remember correctly. It gave a beautiful view of the mountains. I believe we were flying on a relatively low flight level that day too. The second time was on a Jazz flight from YUL to LGA. Very crowded.

BTW if you also sit near the wing the upper baggage bin is quite small due to the wing spars etc. that run across the top of the plane rather than below the floor. So if you have a carry on piece it can be a problem on a full flight.
 
mirrodie
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:22 am

Ogre727, pleaes be sure to post a trip report about it.

I flew probably my last flight on a BAe146 last year. A great aircraft and I liked sitting in the first 3 rows, forward of the engine.
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BCAL
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 3):
the center seat rows will have the outside view blocked by the engines.

And the overhead lockers are considerably smaller too. Great view if you can get a window seat at the back.

Quoting Ogre727 (Reply 11):
Any comments on the airport in Florence?

Presumably Peretola with its runway rumoured to be 5,425'. Still Meridiana operates A319s into Florence but I gather that only Captains are allowed to fly the approach. As stated above, terminal is small and can get very congested if more than 3 planes land/depart at the same time. But it is convenient for the city of Florence and most of Tuscany, but flights are generally more expensive than those to Pisa.


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exFATboy
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting Ellehammer (Reply 21):
I guess it is built in Canada. Do they still make them?

Nope, built in the UK. "BAe" = British Aerospace, although Avro Canada was a subsidiary of one of BAe's predecessor companies. Avro Canada was shut down as an aircraft manufacturer in 1962, although a small part of it lives on as [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orenda_Aerospace]Orenda Aerospace. The parent company in the UK (in turn a part of Hawker Siddeley) was absorbed into the nationalized British Aerospace in 1977. HS had done the original design work as the "HS.146" project. Production ended in 2002, after development of advanced versions ("RJX") was cancelled in late 2001.
 
Viscount724
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting PM (Reply 7):
it's a shame that your first experience will be a cramped 6-abreast one. At 5-abreast it's a completely different story



Quoting Helvknight (Reply 13):
Or fly on LX, I think all the birds are 5 abreast now. 6 abreast on a BAE146/RJ100 is cruel and unusual punishment.

Agree, 5-abreast BAe146/Avro RJs like LXs (or those that once operated for a few carriers in Canada and USA) are excellent, but 6-abreast like AF and LH are very uncomfortable and best avoided. LX's RJ100s with the new Recaro seats are very nice, although the old ex-Crossair seats were also good.

Someone mentioned them as being noisy but that's never been my impression. They also seem to ride well in turbulence, possibly due to the high wing configuration. Landings are also usually very smooth, both due to the landing gear design and their landing speed is lower than many aircraft.
 
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LHRBFSTrident
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:38 pm

Quoting Ogre727 (Reply 11):
Any comments on the airport in Florence? (short short runway)

short runway, yes, and i was expecting something exciting when i flew into FLR on an LH-branded ARJ last summer - it turned out to be rather a non-event in terms of excitement!

I mean the 146 has such excellent short-field performance - it really takes FLR in its stride. The approach is flown at such a comparatively low speed that the roll out is almost like it just coasts to a halt!

IIRC the a/c isn't even equipped with thrust reverse - it's just not necessary!

That thing could land on a cocktail napkin...
 
CV990
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:49 pm

Hi!

I flew 3 times on the Avro/BAe 146. First time I had the chance to fly in that nice airplane was with LX from LIS to GVA ( round trip ), HB-IXG, LIS/GVA and HB-IXF, GVA/LIS. On HB-IXG I flew on Seat 17A, behind the wing, so I had a good view of the wing and also of the ground. On the way back I flew on Seat 5A and I expected to be ahead of the wing, well.....I was ahead of the wing but with both engines right "in front" of my eyes!!! I took some photos, but then I noticed that one of the F/A's was seeing me "struggling" to take decent photos, so he invited me to move to Business Class and from there I took good pictures ( of course I returned to my seat after!!! ). Next flight I did was this last March, I flew LH Cityline BAe 146-300, D-AEWM from GVA to STR. It was a very nice flight too, my seat was 8A right in the middle of the wing but I had a good view from outside, the plane was in great shape ( taking in mind that it was already 18 years old!!! ) and I had a smooth ride. All I can say about this airplane in all flights is that it's very confortable, very silent and we can always expect a smooth ride in it, even flying from LIS to GVA, and that is around 2:30 hour flight, still is a great ride! Quite impressive is when you are landing, you can notice a nice nose-down attitude and landings are always quite short!!!
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baguy
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:27 pm

On my AF CityJet flight in April, I think row 6 had no window.

BAguy
 
aviationnut12
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:12 am

I have flown an RJ85 twice, MSP-DLH and DLH-MSP operated by Mesaba. I thought it was the quietest plane I have flown, even on takeoff with the engines at spooled up. Mesaba also had the 5-abreast configuration and the seats were quite comfortable. It is too bad they are gone, but I am glad I got to fly on one a couple times. God Bless.
Aviationnut12
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Viscount724
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 27):
the a/c isn't even equipped with thrust reverse - it's just not necessary!

You can often tell when the unusual tail-mounted airbrakes are extended shortly before landing.


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PlymSpotter
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:29 am

Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 27):
I mean the 146 has such excellent short-field performance - it really takes FLR in its stride. The approach is flown at such a comparatively low speed that the roll out is almost like it just coasts to a halt!

IIRC the a/c isn't even equipped with thrust reverse - it's just not necessary!

That thing could land on a cocktail napkin...

It certainly can! In the Philippines Asian Spirit fly the 146-100 into MPH, Caticlan Airport, which supposedly has a usable landing length of 900m, and take off of 950m, but in reality you have to slash 100m off that - it is the shortest strip in the world from which the 146 operates scheduled flights. It feels insane to take off from there on it; you sit there at the end of this tiny strip as the engines are pushed to maximum thrust and then some. The whole aircraft is chomping on the brakes and vibrating as those four engines fill the cabin with a chesty roar, then with the release you surge forwards and within 15 seconds you've rotated and are powering up into the sky!

I first flew the 146 with Swiss in 2005, although it was quite by accident as I was auto rebooked by KLM, after my second attempt to get on a Fokker 100 was cancelled! I loved the aircraft instantly, aside from being the last British Jet to be made, which gave me a sense of pride to fly it, the design with those four engines and the overwing just looked awesome. Last year I was determined to fly some of the other variants; initially I booked a few trips on FlyBe which got me on the -200 and -300 series, then I was lucky enough to get a few more trips on Swiss, which enabled me to fly the RJ100 again but also the RJ85 to and from BHX. I was pretty sure the -100 series was going to be taken out of the BA (FlyBe) fleet very soon, so with the kind help of Andy, Skidmarks on this forum, I managed to take a flight on this version from LGW-IOM. At the time I did not expect to have the opportunity to fly the 146-100 again in the Philippines, and not in my wildest dreams could I have expected to sit in the cockpit for the landing at MNL. Simply an awesome experience which I shall never forget.



Certainly I hope for many more flights on this amazing aircraft, I love it and now have many fond memories! I hope you also enjoyed you flight on it Ogre727  Smile


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747fan
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:04 pm

The last carrier to use the BAe 146/Avro RJ in the US was Mesaba (NWA Airlink) I believe. I know United Express also used them fairly recently out of airports such as EGE. I think Mesaba used them up to Dec. 2006. I've never flown on one before, but I'd really like to - I guess I'll just have to go to Europe more. I'm guessing they're a thrill ride on takeoff with their short t/o run and steep climbout.
 
DesertAir
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RE: My First Flight On A BAe 146

Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:07 pm

I flew the BA-146 often on PSA out of Burbank to Oakland and from LAX to Stockton. Compared to the Current RJs they were great little planes.

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