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tb727
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What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:20 am

In the next year or so I am going to be given the opportunity to move onto some heavy iron at my company. It's all freight but the aircraft that I could be FO on are the DC-9-15, the 727-200, or the 747-100/200. Pay is about the same and so is the upgrade and the 747's are scheduled service vs. mostly on-demand for the 9 and 727.

Just curious, I am not sure what I would do, I think it would depend on the day I was asked so I might have to wait. Even though I really like the jet I fly now as a Training Captain(Dassault Falcon 20), I got into this to fly the big stuff.

What would any of you do, go for the 9, the 727 or the Whale?
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
UncleBuck
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:39 am

my first instinct would be to say go for the 747..however... the -100 is a really old plane, with a tainted safety record. or course, so is both of the others, haha. i have heard the 74 is a very easy plane to fly... i would at the same time think the dc9 and 72 are very fun to fly. i've never been on a dc9, but i know the md80 just seems to get up and go on takeoff rolls... only been on a 72 once, don't remember anything about it. anyway my opinion probably doesn't matter. as far as repuatation, it'd be pretty badass to say "yeah i flew the 747"... but i just think the dc9 would be funner to fly.
 
OHLHD
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting Tb727 (Thread starter):

Shit, this is what I call a damn hard decision to make. These are all classics! Keep us informed for which you decide!  Wink
 
B747forever
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:50 am

Quoting Tb727 (Thread starter):
What would any of you do, go for the 9, the 727 or the Whale?

This is a really hard decision as OHLHD mentioned.

But I would go for the 727 or the 747. To hard to choose between this two.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
RAFVC10
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:02 am

My preferences would be for the Boeing 727-200...

Just as a remember. Here in Spain we had the IB Puente Aereo fleet predominantly occupied with Boeing 727-200 and I miss them.

Last year, in a job trip to Bolivia, I had the chance to fly in a Boeing 727 (the -100 series) for a short flight (VVI-CBB) in my body demmands for more experiences with the 727 equipment.

Regards,

Gerard
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CV990
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:30 am

Hi!

All 3 models are great airplanes....I flew all 3 has a passenger in the past, and if you said the 727-100 I would go for that airplane right away!!! The 200 version is still a great airplane but doesn't look with "that" muscle the 100 had! The 747 is a great, steady, almost "lazy" airplane. In the end you have the DC-9-15....I flew that model in 1980 with KL and I tell you, that plane rocks...very fast on take-off, small and light, I don't know I just loved it!
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PhilSquares
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:18 pm

Quoting UncleBuck (Reply 1):
my first instinct would be to say go for the 747..however... the -100 is a really old plane, with a tainted safety record.

What planet are you from? Care to provide some facts? I can assure the 747-100 doesn't have a tainted safety record!

For the OP, I'd take scheduled service. You can plan and have a life that way!
Fly fast, live slow
 
bok269
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:21 pm

Go for the 747 Classic. It may be your last oppurtunity to fly this majestic bird.
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:05 pm

Well I would personally fly the 747, but then the 727 is also a really great plane. Good Luck  Wink
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:59 am

I would go with the 747 for prestige. Yes, the classic models have a less than stellar safety record in the past 10-15 years, but odds are still in your favor by a moon shot so it should not be a concern. It would be cool to say you're a 727 pilot too, after all they are a proud few nowadays.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
zululima
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:58 pm

I hope you like steam gauges! Go for the 747, even if just for the prestige.
I didn't get a 'Harumph' outta that guy!
 
flymia
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:06 pm

Quoting Tb727 (Thread starter):
747-100/200.

747! Its a big plane with alot of prestige. Also I would imagine you would do long haul trips and go to some places far away and also schedule service sounds alot better than on demand. I would go for the 747 thats for sure.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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tb727
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:32 pm

Yeah, I guess I am in a tough spot. I guess I am leaning towards a Boeing product. I think the DC-9 would just end up being a bigger version of what I am flying now. Plus 3-crew flightdecks are cool. Luckily, although I will find out more tomorrow, I won't have to be an FE on either the 727 or 747.
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austinairport
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:31 am

Wow What a dilemma.  Yeah sure Poor, Poor You. LOL JP. Just close your eyes and pick one.  Big grin
Whoever said you can do anything you set your mind to has obviously never tried to slam a revolving door!!!
 
HT
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:47 pm

Quoting Tb727 (Thread starter):
What would any of you do, go for the 9, the 727 or the Whale?

Would any of these form the base to move on to another a/c (type rating) in the carrier's fleet ?
If the type you chose were to be retired soon, you would end up either w/o a job or having to train on a completely new a/c ...

OTOH, there might be recruiting tactics behind it when offering you the decision between the 3 models.
If you bluntantly say "B747" this might imply that you think of the other a/c inferior = you would have no respect for the crew working on these a/c.

If you state one a/c specifically, be prepared to state reasons why you chose it over the other two.
 twocents 
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
alfa75
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 7):
Go for the 747 Classic. It may be your last oppurtunity to fly this majestic bird.

Great suggestion. Besides if he wants to fly a DC-9 he can wait another ten years and fly one for NW.
The best things in life aren't things!
 
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tb727
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:32 pm

Quoting Alfa75 (Reply 15):
Great suggestion. Besides if he wants to fly a DC-9 he can wait another ten years and fly one for NW.

Well that was my dream job flying for NW ever since I was 5 years old. Long story short, I will never fly on or for that dirty, back-stabbing airline after what they did to my family after nearly 30 years of service.  Angry


I am on the other hand leaning towards the 747. I parked next to one of ours at LAX yesterday and that plane is just awesome. I still can't say 100%, but I think that plane is awesome. I wouldn't have to move for any of the jobs on any of the airplanes since I already live at home base for the company. A schedule sure would be nice after flying on a pager 24/7 for the last 5 years. Wheels in the well after 45 minutes of notice gets old quick.
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jeffry747
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:11 pm

My suggestions: Since the 727 is slowly but surely going the way of the dodo, try to get yourself a few runs on that bird just so you can say you got to fly the 727. I am no pilot, but I have flown as a passenger on the 727 and it's a very enjoyable plane to be on. After you got some hours on the 727, make the jump to the Big Boeing. I would give anything for the chance to fly the 747 just once. Not to mention the 747 is scheduled, so you can plan accordingly as others here have said. The 747 is very majestic and prestigious, and a guaranteed head turner. Those spotters WILL notice you, and someone is gonna take a picture and upload it to A.net with you flying the plane.
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ebj1248650
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:35 am

Definitely the 727-200
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deskflier
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:27 am

If you want to stack up as many types as possible, go for the 727. On the other hand, with a 747 clearance, you will be able to find plenty of work for years to come. So it is a question about whether career or enthusiasm is the main driving force in your life.
How can anyone not fly, when we live at a time when we can fly?
 
QXRamperMEII
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting Deskflier (Reply 20):
So it is a question about whether career or enthusiasm is the main driving force in your life.

Best advice I've heard so far...since I've started flying "the line", I've heard all about QOL vs just having fun...

You've been chained to a 45 min report for the past five years...sucks, big time. The Whale will get you away from that. Until the company decides to change its policy...then you would have picked it for the the wrong reason....

Here's my 2 pennies on the matter. Go with what you want to be paid to drive across the sky. All are Classics, all have their own ways of being prestigious. Personally, I'd go with the 727. The DC-9 is too close to what I fly now (CRJ900), so it doesn't have a huge appeal for me. The 747...ok, yeah it's the Whale, it's a sexy airplane for its size and prestige, but really...you'd be flying a friggin building all over the place. Going from a Falcon to a 747...like Secretariat to Elsie the Cow. Zzzzzzz.....

The 727...seems like a sports car to me. Granted, I have zero time in any of these types, but from my perspective, it seems the way to go. Plus, my girlfriend's grandfather is a retired 727 driver. We've had literally hours and hours of talk about flying them. He's typed in all three that you've mentioned, check airman in the DC9 and 727, and has told me numerous times the 727 was his all-time favorite. It's a pilot's airplane...rewards good flying, bites you in the ass if you get behind the aircraft.

So, it boils down to what you want from your equipment upgrade. The two big factors -pay and upgrade- seem like a wash across all three types, so it's down to a scheduling issue. Fly a fun plane at a moment's notice, or know in advance how much you're flying the Winnebago...?


Post Script : I am by no means bashing the 747...I love that, and any Boeing aircraft. Just as a young, crazy, hair-on-fire RJ pilot, it seems too big to have fun flying. Any 747 drivers out there, let me know how it is
 
swissgabe
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:41 am

no doubt that would be the 747. beside it is a cool aircraft I assume that it would also help you to get to more "exotic" places compared to the 9 or 727!?
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2H4
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:04 am

Quoting QXRamperMEII (Reply 21):
has told me numerous times the 727 was his all-time favorite. It's a pilot's airplane...rewards good flying, bites you in the ass if you get behind the aircraft.

I've heard the exact same sentiments from more than one 727 driver. The single most rewarding aircraft to fly, they've all said.

2H4

Intentionally Left Blank
 
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tb727
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:06 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 23):

I've heard the exact same sentiments from more than one 727 driver. The single most rewarding aircraft to fly, they've all said.

That's what makes this choice so hard! I have heard that from just about everyone that has ever flown it. We've had guys leave the commuters because they flew 727's prior and just want to get back in the plane. I am kinda leaning towards the 747 though. They have a schedule and fly more per month with a higher guarantee. I am tired of being on a pager.
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USAirALB
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:15 pm

probably 727 definilty NOT 747-100 very poor safety record
E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/77W/319/320/321/333/343
 
PhilSquares
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:01 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 24):
probably 727 definilty NOT 747-100 very poor safety record



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 6):
Quoting UncleBuck (Reply 1):
my first instinct would be to say go for the 747..however... the -100 is a really old plane, with a tainted safety record.

What planet are you from? Care to provide some facts? I can assure the 747-100 doesn't have a tainted safety record!
Fly fast, live slow
 
747fan
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:04 am

Quoting UncleBuck (Reply 1):
my first instinct would be to say go for the 747..however... the -100 is a really old plane, with a tainted safety record

Well tell UPS, Evergreen, Kalitta, Iran Air, Orient Thai, and other carriers that, who currently operate 36-37 year old -100's and have never had a single crash/safety incident with them. It may have had some unfortunate crashes (TWA800 comes to mind), but many of these were due to terrorism (PanAm 103) or simply pilot error.
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:12 am

Quoting 747fan (Reply 26):
Well tell UPS, Evergreen, Kalitta, Iran Air, Orient Thai, and other carriers that, who currently operate 36-37 year old -100's and have never had a single crash/safety incident with them.

And NW never had an incident with the DC-10, and it was in service several years longer than AA and UA. Chance always favors safety. But the classic 747's have a checkered past, especially when the airframes become middle aged. Cargo aircraft have the benefit of not being worked as hard. But passenger aircraft have had odd incidents that sometimes proved catastrophic, TW800 was not the only one.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 25):
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 6):
Quoting UncleBuck (Reply 1):
my first instinct would be to say go for the 747..however... the -100 is a really old plane, with a tainted safety record.

What planet are you from? Care to provide some facts? I can assure the 747-100 doesn't have a tainted safety record!

Perhaps earth? The 747-100/200 models have the worst safety record in comparison to other models. To dispute this would be ignorant. The -200 is not much different than the -100, IGW, better engines, and range. Other than that, same technology. Also, many -100's were upgraded to -200's. Don't let this deter you Tb727, I voted for the 747.

Here are your facts PhilSquares....

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...te=05252002®=B-18255&airline=China Airlines

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...te=12221999®=HL7451&airline=Korean Air Lines

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...ate=07171996®=N93119&airline=Trans World Airlines

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...i?date=10041992®=4X-AXG&airline=El Al Cargo

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...te=02241989®=N4713U&airline=United Airlines

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19850812-1

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19911229-0

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19780101-1

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19760509-0

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...?date=05071990®=VT-EBO&airline=Air India

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19871128-0

This doesn't even include instances involving only pilot error, weather, or terrorism.

[Edited 2007-10-29 00:13:42]
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:28 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 27):
Perhaps earth? The 747-100/200 models have the worst safety record in comparison to other models. To dispute this would be ignorant. The -200 is not much different than the -100, IGW, better engines, and range. Other than that, same technology. Also, many -100's were upgraded to -200's. Don't let this deter you Tb727, I voted for the 747.

Here are your facts PhilSquares....

If you're going to quote me perhaps next time get the entire quote! Nothing worse than taking things out of context.

Rather than pointing out meaningless reports try taking a look at the Boeing Statistical Summary. I will let you do the google search for the link. But you will see the 747/100/200/300/SP has a hull loss rate of 2.28/million departures. Compare that with the DC10/MD-10 which has a rate of 2.83.

Those incidents include hull losses due to terrorist events, so in reality the hull loss rate due to the design or systems is even lower. So perhaps next time, you'll think twice about trying to present the "facts". At least do it with something better than just posting links.

Earth????? Maybe not.

I am sure the original posters don't need anyone else to fight their battles. After all, they posted the statements, they should be albe to justify them. Even your venerable DC-10 has a higher loss rate than the 747. Be careful if you're going to start throwing stones!!!!
Fly fast, live slow
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:27 am

The 747, its a classic. Even if I was offered a heavy jet job tomorrow (one can wish) I would pick the 747-400 over the newer A346s and 777s
 
PhilSquares
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 28):
Rather than pointing out meaningless reports try taking a look at the Boeing Statistical Summary. I will let you do the google search for the link. But you will see the 747/100/200/300/SP has a hull loss rate of 2.28/million departures. Compare that with the DC10/MD-10 which has a rate of 2.83.

Just checked the updated version http://www.boeing.com/news/techissues/pdf/statsum.pdf. Looks like the revised rate is 1.43/2.54 for the "classic" while the DC-10 is 1.37/3.09 and the MD-11 is 1.77/2.95. (Hull loss accident rate/Hull loss with fatalities accident rate)
Fly fast, live slow
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:35 pm

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 28):
If you're going to quote me perhaps next time get the entire quote! Nothing worse than taking things out of context.

You asked for some proof that the 747 classics have a less than stellar safety record. I gave it to you, and then you got defensive. How is that out of context?

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 30):
Just checked the updated version http://www.boeing.com/news/techissues/pdf/statsum.pdf. Looks like the revised rate is 1.43/2.54 for the "classic" while the DC-10 is 1.37/3.09 and the MD-11 is 1.77/2.95. (Hull loss accident rate/Hull loss with fatalities accident rate)

There were many more 747's built than DC-10's, it doesn't take a genius to figure out the numbers are skewed. UA 232 is the only DC-10 post 1979 that involved a system malfuction, as I showed you the same can not be said for the 747 classics.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 28):
At least do it with something better than just posting links.

I'm not going to do all the work for you. The links sum up the checkered past and proves TW 800 was not an isolated incident. Do some research yourself, lazy earthling..  Wink

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 28):
I am sure the original posters don't need anyone else to fight their battles. After all, they posted the statements, they should be albe to justify them. Even your venerable DC-10 has a higher loss rate than the 747. Be careful if you're going to start throwing stones!!!!

What??? (Scratches head) This is just immature..  Yeah sure
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
Superfly
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:47 pm

Tb727:
All I can say is damn, I wish I had those choices!
All three are great aircraft.  yes 
Bring back the Concorde
 
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tb727
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:15 pm

Well the other good news with the 747 side of the equation I forgot to mention is that there is talk of -400's in the fleet in the kinda near future. Apparently when Europe goes to Stage 4 noise, some of the -200 and all the -100's will be gone or restricted to US operations. Just wish I had a time frame of when this is all going to go down! It's still gonna be at least about a year I think until it's offered. All airplanes are dangerous BTW Smile
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PhilSquares
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 31):
There were many more 747's built than DC-10's, it doesn't take a genius to figure out the numbers are skewed. UA 232 is the only DC-10 post 1979 that involved a system malfuction, as I showed you the same can not be said for the 747 classics.

That's why the statistics are given in millions of departures. What you provided me was a list of incidents that basically mean nothing. I provided you an analysis of incidents based on a set number of departures. Please take look at the doucment I cited rather than trying to make immature personal attacks on me. I am not going to respond to those at all.

I merely provided you with the facts and if you choose to ignore them, then that's your problem. Do a little bit of research/reading before you try to post a "reasonable" response.
Fly fast, live slow
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:57 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 34):
What you provided me was a list of incidents that basically mean nothing. I provided you an analysis of incidents based on a set number of departures. Please take look at the doucment I cited rather than trying to make immature personal attacks on me.

Personal attacks? Please, cut the drama. You questioned the less than flawless safety record of the 747 classics. What I provided answers that. It may mean nothing to you, but it's completely relevant. These are facts, throwing the DC-10 into your argument is irrelevant. Everyone knows the DC-10 had it's accidents, that's a separate discussion. The 747 accidents I posted are not opinions; there is no sense in arguing this further if you're still failing to comprehend. As for your link, it shows me an error message when I click on it....

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 33):
Well the other good news with the 747 side of the equation I forgot to mention is that there is talk of -400's in the fleet in the kinda near future

More reason to opt for the 747, IMO. Good luck!
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: What Would You Fly Of These 3 Planes?

Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 35):
Personal attacks? Please, cut the drama. You questioned the less than flawless safety record of the 747 classics. What I provided answers that. It may mean nothing to you, but it's completely relevant. These are facts, throwing the DC-10 into your argument is irrelevant. Everyone knows the DC-10 had it's accidents, that's a separate discussion. The 747 accidents I posted are not opinions; there is no sense in arguing this further if you're still failing to comprehend. As for your link, it shows me an error message when I click on it....

Here's the link again. www.boeing.com/news/techissues/pdf/statsum.pdf Worked just fine for me.

Pleae re-read my posts, I didn't question the "less than flawless safety record", what I questioned was the characterization. I never disagreed with the accidents you posted, what I pointed out was the statistical analysis that has been done. You don't seem to be able to understand the analysis so we'd better just end this here. But you should take a look at the numbers. They are very easy to understand.
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