AFKLMLHLX
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:49 am

Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 1:40 am

I am not about to say that working for an airline is a cushy job, but, I do get a little tired when I read trip reports that include grumpy crews and I hear people babel so long about how working for an airline is so horrible. Being a pilot is my dream job even though it probably will not happen. Now, I would never want to be a pilot for an American airline, but there are many places in the world where being a pilot seems like Heaven on Earth for me. I do admit that working for some commuter airline in Georgia might get a little draconian and depressing, but one of my theories about life, is that things are only bad if you make them bad.

Honestly, if you constantly think bad thoughts like how your passengers are so impossible or your hours are so horrible, then of course you are not going to enjoy your job. But why become a FA in the first place if you are not really into the airlines or the atmosphere on airlines? I do think you find happier crews on non-US airlines as usually the benefits are better and the airline provides better accomodations for most layovers. Also, I think that your passengers on an EWR-MCO flight are going be much more difficult than on a CDG-NRT flight. However, every job has its downside. Probably the average FA makes between 20-60,000 USD and that is not so bad for a job that does not require any serious mental thought. There are so many other jobs that pay the same which require people to be laborers and work much more than what FA's have to go through. Traveling puts me in a good mood anyways so if I am getting paid to do it, I would not have a problem putting up with a couple of low-class passengers and the occasional odd hours. I do think working as an FA for LH is much more glamorous than working domestic flights on DL, but both still pay the same.

I think when you start going into how they are responsible for so many passengers and how a baby spills food and yadi yadi yada, then you put yourself into the mentality where the job is horrible when in reality, it is a great job! It does not pay that well, but you are also not producing anything, you are just babysitting (in a way). I would never work on a US airline as I do think flying within the US can be a little depressing (depending on the airline). But, why sign for the job if all you want to do is complain? Traveling and being in airports just puts me in a good mood! Strutting down the terminal in uniform is a dream.
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 1:45 am



Quoting AfklmLHLX (Thread starter):
Probably the average FA makes between 20-60,000 USD and that is not so bad for a job that does not require any serious mental thought.

Prepare to get flamed for that comment.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
GregQuinn
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:37 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 1:55 am

I'm amazed to read TRs on this website and another, in which the culprit for passenger dissatisfaction is the attitude of the FAs. (And then they disappeared behind the curtain until breakfast, during which time they gossipped and made jokes about the passengers and chewed us out for coming back for a glass of water.) If these persons are so disenchanted with their jobs---- note that I did not choose "positions" ---- then they should resign and go elsewhere to find the happiness that so eludes them. As a passenger I do not care to be subjected to their foul moods. Bonus: if you call them on it, you're accused of being belligerent, non-compliant, and subject to arrest (on their whim) when you arrive. All in the name of national security, of course.
 
AFKLMLHLX
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:49 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 2:03 am

THIS IS NOT TO FLAME AMERICA but I have noticed that FA"s on non-American airlines are usually much nicer and put together. I have also noticed that American crews on INTL routes are usually in a better mood. It is all about the atmosphere. When I flew LX from ZRH-BCN, I knew I wanted to work in the airlines. I just love being in the sky and I love wearing the uniform and traveling, as long as I can land a job with a European airline. I am sorry but having layovers in Billings and Fresno really aren't that fun. However, send me anywhere in Europe to have a layover I'll be happy. It might reflect the moods of the FA's. I also usually fly out of EWR and flying to New York always puts people in a good mood. So I have not come across any really grumpy FA's as I think in all people, your surroundings make a big difference on how you view things. EWR just has a nice feeling to it (as well as JFK).
 
smi0006
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 2:26 am

To be honest this is a really complicated topic and there are thousands of variables and factors that can make some one grumpy at work, these same variables to anyone in the airline industry combined with working in customer service (may I ask what you do for a living? so I can relate them too you).

One of the things that people on here forget is most of these people still love their jobs, but they are tired of being treated like crap, the old saying treat people how you expect to be treated is true, I have worked for airlines for only one year, one year as an FA for about 9 months and now as ground staff;
In that time I've been, screamed at and sworn at by groups of adults, kicked by small children while parents laughed and smiled on, had things thrown at me by adults, been spat at by adults and children, been threatened, had people hand me chewing gum into my hand and been handed soiled nappies (the pax concealed this from me until it was to late lol charming I know),...... it goes on. In the first job where I was told I needed to take a pay cut and a reductiong in my conditions, so the airline could remain competative (the very next day they announced a record profit their largest one ever), Now I am no being payed below industry standards.

Please don't think me facisious but can you understand how this could wear someone out after a while, even a person who loved their job and still does, could appear grumpy to you when the person in row 19 just screamed and swore at them beacuse they asked them switch their mobile off and it was the third time it had happened to them that morning? Don't misunderstand me this is not acceptable behaviour for anyone one in the customer service industry to be grumpy/rude/dis-interested in their customers, but I was just giving you one of the major factors.

This is not industry specific this occurs in all customer service industries in all countries.

Please don't get me wrong I love my job and will do anything I can to help my pax out, anything. But I also expect to be treated with a level of respect, there doen't have to be smiles or any nicesties, levels of rudeness I will easily tolerate, but abuse and disgusting acts and arguing when I have mad a resonable request, nope, and that doesn't mean I have to respond angrily or rudly either.

The solution is two fold, people in customer service need to suck it up smile and cop it on the chin, and people in the wider comunity need to start to recognise they may need to start treating people better.
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2402
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 2:27 am



Quoting AfklmLHLX (Thread starter):
Probably the average FA makes between 20-60,000 USD and that is not so bad for a job that does not require any serious mental thought.

No, but it does require long hours, many nights away from home, dealing with more than "a couple of low-class passengers" and can be very taxing. Just because they don't do manual labor does not mean the job doesn't take it out of you. Your safety as a passenger is their primary job. What is that worth to you?

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Thread starter):
Traveling puts me in a good mood anyways so if I am getting paid to do it, I would not have a problem putting up with a couple of low-class passengers and the occasional odd hours.

So because you fly a couple hours a day, every once in a while they should automatically be happy? Fly the same old airplanes, over the same few routes, dealing with new passengers (many of whom assume they are to be the center of your world for the next few hours after paying $100 for their coast to coast ticket) and old problems (that you've seen time, and time again), spend a night in some mediocre hotel in some city you don't care to see (again), find your way home on your own time if you don't live in base, only to do it a few days later. Flying in and out of NYC might put some pax in an alright mood but talk to a pilot who has dealt with EWR, JFK, or LGA during rush hour and/or with weather in the area and see how well they enjoy it then. Airports to crews probably arent special places and I'd bet money they dont go off of how it "feels" to be there.

Now, I'm not saying it is an excuse to be rude or downright nasty to passengers, they are the face of the airline and should try to be friendly to all, but being an air crew member isn't as easy as people think it to be. Pilots and F/As are underpaid and overworked right now and things aren't looking great for the airlines right now.
Life is better when you surf.
 
fly2yyz
Posts: 643
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:45 pm

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 2:32 am



Quoting Smi0006 (Reply 4):
One of the things that people on here forget is most of these people still love their jobs, but they are tired of being treated like crap, the old saying treat people how you expect to be treated is true, I have worked for airlines for only one year, one year as an FA for about 9 months and now as ground staff;
In that time I've been, screamed at and sworn at by groups of adults, kicked by small children while parents laughed and smiled on, had things thrown at me by adults, been spat at by adults and children, been threatened, had people hand me chewing gum into my hand and been handed soiled nappies (the pax concealed this from me until it was to late lol charming I know),...... it goes on. In the first job where I was told I needed to take a pay cut and a reductiong in my conditions, so the airline could remain competative (the very next day they announced a record profit their largest one ever), Now I am no being payed below industry standards.

Welcome to my respected users list!
 
SWA TPA
Posts: 1454
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 6:10 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 2:52 am

Well let me add my two cents in here!

I am a flight attendant for a regional carrier and I am based out of JFK. Let me just say that I LOVE my job! I dont even call this work! It is just fun in my book. I still cant believe they pay me to fly around all day and do what I love. Yeah, I occasionally run into the grumpy passenger but so what, I dont let him affect my job performance or how I feel about my job. I only have to deal with him for a couple of hours at the most and then he is out of my life probably never to be seen again. I dont see a reason to be a crab to all my other passengers just because he is having a bad day. I just try all that much harder to make things better for him. You never know why he is in such a bad mood, maybe he just lost a loved one or lost his job or is going thru a divorce or any number of things.
Nothing delights me more than to have my passengers deplaning and thanking me for my gracious service. That truly makes my day knowing that they left with a good impression of my company and will hopefully remember the good service they received next time they need to fly.

Yes we are underpaid and yes I work my tail off some days but I got into this job knowing what it entailed and what I was in for. Some days I come off that plane after a 13.5 hour day completely exhausted with my pilots and head to a hotel in the middle of the night in some god forsaken little town but tomorrow is another day with all new challenges and all new faces  Smile


SWA TPA
I believe I can fly.....
 
Boeingluvr
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:56 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 2:57 am

Working for an airline is a great job in any respect if it's your passion. Some people get into the job and it is not as glamorous as expected. I've seen it... Yet they keep their jobs, for the benefits and such. From my experience, I do get tired after working up to 6 or 7 legs a day, or when I'm working up to 5 days straight and the time sometimes just crawls by. This is however, what the job intails so you need to give it your all even if your all isn't what you have left. I can sympathise with those who have posted before me about kids, and picky people, who really don't seem to care. You have to remember that people aren't always at their best, especially when they travel. When you encounter the odd grumpy crew member I would shrug it off. And yes, it's true, on non american airlines, crews do seem a lot nicer. Can't tell you why. Any Americans that can explain??
 
leftwing
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:48 pm

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 2:58 am

In Asian airlines where you see the most amazing looking and the hardest working FA's they are are the worst paid...there is also lower meal allowance compared to the pilots...so offensively pilots eat steak n wine and FA's do McDee's......not to forget serving full meals on a 45 mn flight.... from HKG to TPE on CX or SIN to CGD on SQ....BOM to GAO on 9W....

Welcome to my respected users list!
 
roadrunner165
Posts: 788
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 3:00 am

Travel Polls and Preferences ----> that way.
 
Soxfan
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:50 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 3:20 am

I think grumpiness on the job isn't restricted to airline crews; with every profession, you are bound to meet people who love what they are doing, and others who don't. There are some who truly look forward to going in to work every day, as evidenced by some of the replies to this thread, and others who feel as if they just have to/want to go through the motions. I have flown many times and have been fortunate to have smiling, upbeat attendants on most of the flights (usually domestic in the United States). In following some reviews on other sites such as Skytrax, I have seen many comments on "grumpy" crews, yet very few on those who were actually nice, especially with US airlines. What one passenger says about a poor crew shouldn't apply to an airline with thousands of crewmembers; for example, while some have commented that AA's flight attendants are not the best, I have had wonderful experiences with them in both first and coach. Same goes for DL, B6, UA, and others. What's sad is that sometimes one bad experience with a crew can drive a passenger away, while a good experience may not always succeed in maintaining the passenger's business. I doubt I will be a flight attendant, but if I were, I would put everything I had into ensuring that passengers were comfortable, safe, and (for the most part) happy. I doubt that, especially in today's society, many people choose to be pilots or flight attendants just for the heck of it, or to make money; I would hope, at least, that they have some passion about flying and interacting with people positively. In addition, as a passenger, I have found that if I am polite and friendly with the crew, they (usually) will be the same.

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but the way I see it, even a smile can go a long way to making someone's day.  Smile
Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
 
AAH732UAL
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:41 pm

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 3:41 am

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Thread starter):
Probably the average FA makes between 20-60,000 USD and that is not so bad for a job that does not require any serious mental thought. There are so many other jobs that pay the same which require people to be laborers and work much more than what FA's have to go through.

Say that to their face and expect to have a red cheek or bloody nose. PAX's always see the "Easy Side" of serving drinks, but when that godforsaken emergency happens, you will see that the FAs job besides that pilot, is the most important job in the industry.

They are "Grumpy" b/c they get people like you who bash them.

FYI, I have never ran into a "Grumpy" FA, w/ or w/o my mom working the flight
Not to say they are not out there, but they have the right to be a bit "Grumpy," epically b/c crews are getting rapped by their CEOs or dealing w/ PAXs who expect EVERYTHING for a 15$ ticket.

Not everyone wakes up on the perfect side of the bed every morning

[Edited 2008-05-17 20:43:54]
DME/DME RNP0.3 NA -Escalators don't break---- they just become stairs!
 
AFKLMLHLX
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:49 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 3:42 am

It is funny as about 95% of the time I have flown, I have interacted with pleasant and youthful (in attitude) crews. That is because I am always eager to chat with as many people as I can about airlines as it is my favorite hobby and it just puts me in a good mood. I like experience and I try to talk to as many people in the business as possible.

Quoting Soxfan (Reply 11):
I think grumpiness on the job isn't restricted to airline crews; with every profession, you are bound to meet people who love what they are doing, and others who don't

This is exactly my point! I am not talking about the occasional FA who is grumpy and does not like their job, I am talking about how it is the common view of most people that FA's are grumpy and depressing (when I feel the exact opposite about the job). It is the stereotype now in days of your "grumpy FA". And I once remember a thread about how an article said how an FA's job is "cushy" and almost everybody on that thread replied saying how their job is so grueling. I feel that there are a bunch of lucky people who just enjoy their life in all aspects, but life is what you make of it. I like to see the good in things, but I do not discount the bad. That is why life is all about moving up and making it as best as you can as you can make the whole "ambiance" of your life good, but that does not preclude striving to make it the best it can be.

Sorry, a little bit of a tagent there but my point is, I am tired of this mentality that there are so many horrible factors about an FA's job. I have read articles or heard people at times sound like old Jewish men when they complain about being an FA when I feel that it does not have any more cons than any other job of the same caliber. It is probably the easiest in many ways and the most fun. Sometimes I feel that it feels better to produce rather than to just service, but an FA is a job in particular that has so many pros that make up for the sometimes "boring" aspect of just "babysitting".

Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 5):
Fly the same old airplanes, over the same few routes, dealing with new passengers (many of whom assume they are to be the center of your world for the next few hours after paying $100 for their coast to coast ticket) and old problems (that you've seen time, and time again), spend a night in some mediocre hotel in some city you don't care to see (again), find your way home on your own time if you don't live in base, only to do it a few days later.

This is why I would never want to work for a US airline!!! Don't bash me for this but the class of people who fly US domestic flights has gone way down very rapidly. And you cannot argue that most domestic layover cities in the US are boring! Also, I happen to love the cabins of European airlines short-haul fleets. This is a matter of opinion, but flying within Europe has a certain ambiance which just makes me feel good. Also, most non-US airlines tend to put their crews up at very nice hotels (especially when you're not paying).

Does this have to do with what the US is like? I don't know but I do know that I rarely enjoy a flight domestically in the US compared to all of the INTL flights I have taken. However, one of my favorite flights with JFK-YYC (okay Canada- very similar) which automatically is really good because it leaves out of JFK. And I was on a really nice AC plane and I was going on a skiing vacation so I always love those flights.
 
GT4EZY
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:35 pm

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 3:45 am

As others have said, you get grumpy employee's in all industries and work places.

American crews do seem to be more grumpy than in Europe I agree. I also agree that US international crews do, on the whole, seem a lot happier however, you can get grumpy crews here in the UK and Europe too.

In pretty much the rest of the world, cabin crew CAN still be held in high esteem by many people. Work conditions in general are much better than our US counterparts and that maybe why we seem a lot happier. But then again, some on old high paid BA contracts can often be the grumpiest and so can the odd few on LCC's who too can earn a fair bit due to commission on everything that is sold.

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Thread starter):
downside.that is not so bad for a job that does not require any serious mental thought.

lol, are you joking? I feel more mentally tired than physically. With my airline atleast, we have to cash up, complete bond and customs paperwork, feed back forms, bar reports etc etc.

Quoting GregQuinn (Reply 2):
And then they disappeared behind the curtain until breakfast, during which time they gossipped and made jokes about the passengers and chewed us out for coming back for a glass of water.)

What would you like them to do in the middle of the night in the middle of the cabin?? Do a jig for you? Doing service mid flight in the middle of the night just annoys pax but most crew wouldn't mind you asking for a drink or anything else for that matter.
Proud to fly from Manchester!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 3:54 am



Quoting AfklmLHLX (Thread starter):
working for some commuter airline in Georgia might get a little draconian

Draconian ? As in repressive and authoritarian ? Seems a little extreme.

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Thread starter):
Also, I think that your passengers on an EWR-MCO flight are going be much more difficult than on a CDG-NRT flight

You'd be amazed. Japanese passengers (pardon my generalisation) are generally pretty easy-going and polite, but French passengers (again, pardon my generalisation) can be quite demanding at times. Passengers are pretty much passengers wherever you go, people are always just people.

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Reply 3):
I have noticed that FA"s on non-American airlines are usually much nicer and put together.

That hasn't always been my experience - I''ve flown on a lot of airlines both US and non-US and it varies from flight to flight - you get good ones and you get less good ones, I guess its down to how busy they are, how tired they are, how full the flight is, how demanding/irritating/stupid/offensive the passengers are being - each flight is different.

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Reply 13):
This is a matter of opinion, but flying within Europe has a certain ambiance which just makes me feel good.

Why ? A cheese sandwich is a cheese sandwich wherever you go. Y class especially is pretty generic whomever you fly on these days (of the full service carriers anyway), the only difference being sometimes you have to pay for the cheese sandwich. Slightly different in Biz class, I like the big seats on US domestic first, but the food on European carriers is generally better than on US carriers up the front (especially the little jam tarts they give you on LH - mmmmm !)
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
AFKLMLHLX
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:49 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 3:57 am



Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 14):
I feel more mentally tired than physically

You misread what I said. It can take a mental tole on you for sure however, now I am making a statement about all jobs in the world but generally speaking, most jobs high paying, self paying or low paying require thought as you are doing something for the company you own or work for. Let's just take a simple private business- a restaurant. You have to worry about staff, food, creativity in terms of your food and design, finances, customer service, markets, demographics ect.

However, for an FA, you are only required to keep tabs and take care of your passengers. What I like about the job of an FA is that your job does not consume your interests as all you are really doing is "babysitting" (the best word I could think of to describe what they do excluding emergencies). So, that allows you to for example have an obsession with cooking or politics or soccer or whatever. So, you can enjoy yourself on a mental level while working in a fun environment. For most jobs, what you do really consumes what you think about allowing less time for you to think just about anything from philosphy to the DL/NW merger.
 
AFKLMLHLX
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:49 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 4:06 am



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 15):
That hasn't always been my experience - I''ve flown on a lot of airlines both US and non-US and it varies from flight to flight - you get good ones and you get less good ones, I guess its down to how busy they are, how tired they are, how full the flight is, how demanding/irritating/stupid/offensive the passengers are being - each flight is different.

I think like that when thinking back to every specific flight I have taken. That's why I love flying as my UA ORD-OGG flight has a completely different color per se to it than my UA EWR-DEN flight taken a couple months later. It is all about your mood on the particular day to what the weather was like. Which brings me to this:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 15):

Why ? A cheese sandwich is a cheese sandwich wherever you go. Y class especially is pretty generic whomever you fly on these days (of the full service carriers anyway), the only difference being sometimes you have to pay for the cheese sandwich. Slightly different in Biz class, I like the big seats on US domestic first, but the food on European carriers is generally better than on US carriers up the front (especially the little jam tarts they give you on LH - mmmmm !)

I completely disagree! It is not all about exactly what you get! I would pay for CO BF just to be in the ambiance of the BF cabin. I also think all of the amenities help, but there was just something cozy and nice about flying CO BF from EWR-HKG, an experience think about everyday. There are so many aspects of every flight that I have taken that I am unable to put into words. But, every flight has a different feel to it even if factually speaking, they are all the same. Everything is about the ambiance and the experience and that is why I love flying. I never know how I will remember the flight. For example, I was listening to this really good lounge music on my EWR-HKG flight and now whenver i listen to that song, I think of the flight. There was just something amazing about listening to Corner of the Earth while cruising over Siberia.

In my own mind, every flight I take is different. But, if I look back on all the flights I have taken, they all fit into different domains, like many things in life. So, that is where I can make the statement that US domestic flights are different than those in Europe. Every flight is different and sure I have run into some great FA's on domestic flights but this is on the grand scale.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 4:22 am



Quoting AfklmLHLX (Reply 17):
I would pay for CO BF just to be in the ambiance of the BF cabin.

All I can remember of the BF "ambience" was that it was mostly navy blue. It was nice, but nothing especially remarkable - the seat did not go flat, the AVOD choices were limited, on the flights I took at least the food was OK. The service was good for the most part, from experienced crew.

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Reply 17):
I also think all of the amenities help, but there was just something cozy and nice about flying CO BF from EWR-HKG, an experience think about everyday

You never forget your first time  Smile I can still recall at least some small memory of each flight I've been on, I do certainly remember the good ones but some of them, especially on routes and airlines I''ve flown on a lot, tend to blur a bit. But there are some outstanding memories still. Seeing the northern lights for the first time, seeing icebergs in the far southern ocean, autumn leaves on the approach into FRA, flying over the Panama Canal, landing at Kai Tak, landing in a seaplane in a coral lagoon, seeing the curvature of the Earth at 60,000 feet. Fun stuff to remember.

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Reply 17):
In my own mind, every flight I take is different.

Same here, but as I said, they can tend to blur a tiny bit. Keeping a log helps, and noting in it anything special you saw or experienced, to jog your memory.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 4:23 am



Quoting AfklmLHLX (Thread starter):
Traveling and being in airports just puts me in a good mood! Strutting down the terminal in uniform is a dream.

Spoken like a true "expert". If that is why you want to go into aviation, I would seriously suggest you look at another career. I can assure you, no matter if you work for a US carrier, an international carrier or some other type of carrier, the travel will get very old very quickly. In addition, every airport you walk through, you're expected to be an expert as to the location of baggage claim, restaurants, cash machines, and every other service offered there. It gets very old very quick. Add to that in the US and other parts of the world, we have the "beer budget/champagne service" syndrome. I could write volumes on what I have seen passengers do. The way airline staff are treated is worse than some people would treat their worst enemy.

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Thread starter):
Being a pilot is my dream job even though it probably will not happen. Now, I would never want to be a pilot for an American airline, but there are many places in the world where being a pilot seems like Heaven on Earth for me. I do admit that working for some commuter airline in Georgia might get a little draconian and depressing, but one of my theories about life, is that things are only bad if you make them bad.

Perhaps it's a good thing it won't happen! You need to seriously adjust your perspective. You are not going to be hired into the left of a 744/380 and you will learn you have to "pay your dues". It can be in the military, flight instruction or by starting off is the commuter side of things. Why would being a pilot for a commuter airline in Georgia be draconian? Are you above it? You have to get experience someplace and it would be, after all, a means to an end. I can assure you with your attitude you'd be a "pleasure" to fly with in the cockpit!

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Thread starter):
Probably the average FA makes between 20-60,000 USD and that is not so bad for a job that does not require any serious mental thought.

Again, your superior attitude isn't going to win you any friends. If you hold that same attitude when you are an adult, you won't go very far at all. As a Captain, you are in charge, but your cabin crew do all the hard work. Having an attitude such as yours will be very obvious with the first minute of any interaction you have with them. Believe me, I wouldn't want to fly a 14 day trip with you and the same cabin crew.....
Fly fast, live slow
 
AFKLMLHLX
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:49 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 4:34 am



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 19):

If anything I am supporting FA's. However, my question in the thread was about why FA's seem to be complaining? I am all about looking at the up-side of things. But in this particular thread, I am discussing why there is this negetivity when thinking of FA's. I think of it as a very glamorous and nice job to have in some circumstances. Like I said, US domestic in my opinion isn't that great. Honestly, if I believe that the job of an FA is a great job, that is my opinion. It doesn't matter how bad you think it is or the general person believes it is, I think it is still great for any cons it might have. When comparing to other jobs that make similar amounts, it really is a pretty good job. What is wrong with seeing the positives and forgetting about the negetives of this job? It is all about one's perception of everything. If you are mentally happy with being an FA, then for the most part, you will enjoy the job. But, if you just carry this color of gloom over everything, it will show. It is specific to the person but I don't know every FA in the world so I have to speak impersonally.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 18):
All I can remember of the BF "ambience" was that it was mostly navy blue. It was nice, but nothing especially remarkable - the seat did not go flat, the AVOD choices were limited, on the flights I took at least the food was OK. The service was good for the most part, from experienced crew.

Ambiance can't be described in words. Every flight holds a different place or color in my mind. There is something that stands out, and most of the time, it is not tangible to speech, but it is the combination of many aspects of each flight that contribute to my overall memory of them. A lot of the time it has to do with the music I listen to. I love just listening to a hip hop or jazz song with a good beat while looking out the window, so usually that will stick in my mind. These moments differ between every flight. All I know is that I love flying commercially!
 
Delta777Jet
Posts: 1224
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2000 6:19 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 12:20 pm

Hi there,
I am working since over 10 years in the airline industry and since 4 years for a european low cost carrier.
I really like my job but the problem in the industy is that you are really overworked and underpaid. You fly up to 6 sectors daily, the passengers pay 20 Euros for the flight, they do expect everything for free, the behave like twats and then they expect a smile? No thats not the way it is. I am not speaking of all passengers. 98% of all passengers make my job the best there is, only 2% are a pain in the ass. With 150 seats on Board thats 6 A*holes on each flight. Thats how it is!
B-717/722/737-200/300/400/500/600/700/800/900/B-747-100/200/400/SP/8i/B-752/3/B-762/3/4/B-772/LR/300ER/B-788/DC-10-10/30/L-1011-1/500/MD-81/82/83/90/A-319/320/321/AB6/312/313/332/333/342/343/346/359/388/TU154/IL-18/ATR-42/72/DH4/DH3/E145/E170/190/CR2/7/9
 
Soxfan
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:50 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 2:00 pm



Quoting AfklmLHLX (Thread starter):
But, why sign for the job if all you want to do is complain?

I also don't want to make a generalization, but it's possible (probable? definite?) that at one point the job WAS a lot more comfortable and well-paid, at least for US carriers. I have read about how more and more concessions have to be given by employees for some airlines almost every year to keep the airline afloat. While these issues shouldn't be taken out on passengers, I wouldn't be surprised if they were, by some FAs who had been flying for a long time. Again, I don't want to make a generalization, but does anyone agree with me on this point?
Pilot: "Request push, which way should we face?" JFK Ground: "You better face the front, sir, or you'll scare the pax!"
 
mauiman31
Posts: 297
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:36 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 2:25 pm

As a former FA many years ago and now for many years a frequent biz traveler, I am certainly an FA supporter. It is a job with some great perks, but some major challenges in today's environment. I witness the lack of common civility and courtesy among many of my fellow pax. I generally find that my use of a smile, thank you, please, etc. usually garners the same mood/response in return from the vast majority of cabin crew. Not to say, that I don't occasionally see indifference and lack luster service. And yes then, maybe its time for a career change or retirement. But, that goes for any job. Life's too short, make a change if you can.
 
1stfl94
Posts: 1082
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:33 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Sun May 18, 2008 9:07 pm



Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 21):
Hi there,
I am working since over 10 years in the airline industry and since 4 years for a european low cost carrier.
I really like my job but the problem in the industy is that you are really overworked and underpaid. You fly up to 6 sectors daily, the passengers pay 20 Euros for the flight, they do expect everything for free, the behave like twats and then they expect a smile? No thats not the way it is. I am not speaking of all passengers. 98% of all passengers make my job the best there is, only 2% are a pain in the ass. With 150 seats on Board thats 6 A*holes on each flight. Thats how it is!

Just remember that not every passenger had paid £20 for their flight even if you do work for an LCC. When you take into account taxes, fuel surcharges, airport taxes, getting to the airport, in the UK at least your minimum is approaching £50 (about 75 Euros) so given how much people are paying is it any wonder that they expect a friendly crew. Unfortunately the attitude that 'you pay nothing for your ticket so your deserve to be treated like s***' is spreading and its no wonder people are no longer enjoying their flights.

Now, I know that being cabin crew is a difficult job, but at the same time, it is a service job and if you are not up to providing the service then get out. I don't want to be harsh but ultimately passengers will act with their wallets especially in the premium cabins. My mum's company has stopped using BD and EK for transporting clients because of the poor service they've received in business class.
 
PGNCS
Posts: 2249
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:07 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Mon May 19, 2008 6:04 pm



Quoting AfklmLHLX (Thread starter):
Strutting down the terminal in uniform is a dream.

Well that tells me all I need to know about your motivations and depth of understanding of the job.

Quoting GregQuinn (Reply 2):
Bonus: if you call them on it, you're accused of being belligerent, non-compliant, and subject to arrest (on their whim) when you arrive. All in the name of national security, of course.

When was the last time you pushed the FA call button and they threatened to arrest you?  Yeah sure

Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 5):
Quoting AfklmLHLX (Thread starter):
Traveling puts me in a good mood anyways so if I am getting paid to do it, I would not have a problem putting up with a couple of low-class passengers and the occasional odd hours.

So because you fly a couple hours a day, every once in a while they should automatically be happy? Fly the same old airplanes, over the same few routes, dealing with new passengers (many of whom assume they are to be the center of your world for the next few hours after paying $100 for their coast to coast ticket) and old problems (that you've seen time, and time again), spend a night in some mediocre hotel in some city you don't care to see (again), find your way home on your own time if you don't live in base, only to do it a few days later. Flying in and out of NYC might put some pax in an alright mood but talk to a pilot who has dealt with EWR, JFK, or LGA during rush hour and/or with weather in the area and see how well they enjoy it then. Airports to crews probably arent special places and I'd bet money they dont go off of how it "feels" to be there.

FutureUAL pilot: you have summarized the situation very well. Thank you for your candor and insight.

Quoting Soxfan (Reply 11):
I think grumpiness on the job isn't restricted to airline crews; with every profession, you are bound to meet people who love what they are doing, and others who don't. There are some who truly look forward to going in to work every day, as evidenced by some of the replies to this thread, and others who feel as if they just have to/want to go through the motions. I have flown many times and have been fortunate to have smiling, upbeat attendants on most of the flights (usually domestic in the United States).

That is an excellent point; I have seen very poor customer service in numerous industries. Most of the time the FAs try to be friendly and do a good job. Like any industry there are a few sour apples, but in general I am impressed with the positive attitude that FAs have.

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Reply 13):
It is funny as about 95% of the time I have flown, I have interacted with pleasant and youthful (in attitude) crews.

So what is the problem? Perhaps you think that we think the crews are grumpier than we actually do.

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Reply 13):
I am talking about how it is the common view of most people that FA's are grumpy and depressing (when I feel the exact opposite about the job).

How are you qualified to have an opinion on what the job entails? You keep saying that travel is wonderful (except in the US, Heaven forbid), airports are wonderful, the FA job is wonderful, but all you know is what you THINK you know. You have absolutely zero real-world knowledge of what it is like to do that job day in and day out.

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Reply 13):
I feel that it does not have any more cons than any other job of the same caliber. It is probably the easiest in many ways and the most fun.

Again, how are you qualified to say this?

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Reply 13):
However, one of my favorite flights with JFK-YYC (okay Canada- very similar) which automatically is really good because it leaves out of JFK.

This is perhaps the most inane comment I have ever seen on this site. The vast majority of crews LOATHE JFK for a plethora of reasons. You clearly have no idea what this industry is like.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 15):
Quoting AfklmLHLX (Reply 3):
I have noticed that FA"s on non-American airlines are usually much nicer and put together.

That hasn't always been my experience - I''ve flown on a lot of airlines both US and non-US and it varies from flight to flight - you get good ones and you get less good ones, I guess its down to how busy they are, how tired they are, how full the flight is, how demanding/irritating/stupid/offensive the passengers are being - each flight is different.

Great point: many times the people who complain the most vociferously treat the FAs with disrespect for the entire flight, and then find that the FAs haven't warmed up to them for some reason.

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Reply 16):
However, for an FA, you are only required to keep tabs and take care of your passengers. What I like about the job of an FA is that your job does not consume your interests as all you are really doing is "babysitting" (the best word I could think of to describe what they do excluding emergencies). So, that allows you to for example have an obsession with cooking or politics or soccer or whatever. So, you can enjoy yourself on a mental level while working in a fun environment.

So the job of the FA requires so little brainpower they can take a mental holiday all the time they are at work? A waitress, nurse, or nuclear physicist can't enjoy cooking or soccer? This is totally insulting to all the FAs I know who work very hard and try their best to do a good job in very difficult times dealing with very difficult passengers.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 19):
Quoting AfklmLHLX (Thread starter):
Being a pilot is my dream job even though it probably will not happen. Now, I would never want to be a pilot for an American airline, but there are many places in the world where being a pilot seems like Heaven on Earth for me. I do admit that working for some commuter airline in Georgia might get a little draconian and depressing, but one of my theories about life, is that things are only bad if you make them bad.

Perhaps it's a good thing it won't happen! You need to seriously adjust your perspective. You are not going to be hired into the left of a 744/380 and you will learn you have to "pay your dues". It can be in the military, flight instruction or by starting off is the commuter side of things. Why would being a pilot for a commuter airline in Georgia be draconian? Are you above it? You have to get experience someplace and it would be, after all, a means to an end. I can assure you with your attitude you'd be a "pleasure" to fly with in the cockpit!

Amen, Phil.

You seem to think that you can just pick and choose the choice aircraft, trips, and layovers without ever paying your dues. No matter what form it takes, you WILL pay your dues in this industry, and it won't always be fun. I guess you think you are a bit above working for a commuter airline (especially one from Georgia): you aren't, and neither are any of the people who are now working very hard at commuter airlines all over the world. They work very long hours, for very little reward, and under very arduous conditions. They do a great job overall, and they are mature enough to realize that they are getting experience they will need to get better positions in the industry. Of course some elect to stay at the regionals for a variety of reasons, and that's their perogative. Either way, you don't know very much about what they do or how the industry works.

Phil didn't start as a 747 Captain, and neither will you. You would make it onto a lot of people's negative preference bidding lists.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 19):
Quoting AfklmLHLX (Thread starter):
Traveling and being in airports just puts me in a good mood! Strutting down the terminal in uniform is a dream.

Spoken like a true "expert". If that is why you want to go into aviation, I would seriously suggest you look at another career. I can assure you, no matter if you work for a US carrier, an international carrier or some other type of carrier, the travel will get very old very quickly. In addition, every airport you walk through, you're expected to be an expert as to the location of baggage claim, restaurants, cash machines, and every other service offered there. It gets very old very quick. Add to that in the US and other parts of the world, we have the "beer budget/champagne service" syndrome. I could write volumes on what I have seen passengers do. The way airline staff are treated is worse than some people would treat their worst enemy.

Phil has, again, said it better than I could hope to. You think this is a glamorous job, just oozing with fun and good times, and where everyone lays over in Nice or Amsterdam. It isn't any of those things, and it does get old very quickly. There is a big difference in getting on an airplane occasionally to go on a ski vacation (no wonder you are in a good mood) and getting on one 20 days a month in crappy places, cruddy weather, on holidays, and missing all of your family events...and all for less pay and no retirement! What a great deal!

Quoting AfklmLHLX (Reply 20):
I think of it as a very glamorous and nice job to have in some circumstances.

You think of it that way, yes. Again, you have no industry knowledge to base those thoughts on.

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 21):
I really like my job but the problem in the industy is that you are really overworked and underpaid. You fly up to 6 sectors daily, the passengers pay 20 Euros for the flight, they do expect everything for free, the behave like twats and then they expect a smile?

That's essentially correct. The passengers have grown to see the industry as a commodity, and crews are just an impersonal part of that. They are frequently hassled and even abused, and passengers often feel vindicated in their behavior on the grounds that they paid for the ticket. Nobody is advocating mistreating passengers: to the contrary, I WANT the passengers to be happy and come back. I also want the passengers to behave with respect to everyone on the aircraft, including the crew.
 
AFKLMLHLX
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:49 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Mon May 19, 2008 6:56 pm



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 25):

See now you get mad at me for saying how I am ignorant and have no authority to make a comment about that, but the whole fact that you just sputter about how I know nothing and therefore cannot comment is pure ignorance itself. I know a lot about airlines and airplanes and I am not going to spur about my knowledge, but maybe I should so you would then credit me more for my opinion. I have been on planes hundreds of times in my life. I have gotten in hour long discussions with crew members about their jobs. I know that once you're in the job, there are a lot of cons which you could not see coming from the outside perspective, but you do not get what I am saying. Every job has its cons. And yet, there is this stereotypical misreble image cast on FA's like they are witches.

Now my views on how this is not true outside of America put aside, the job really is not that bad. For most jobs it takes years of sleepless nights and odd hours to complete training such as college and grad school. You don't even need to go to college to become an FA! I think there is no problem with learning for the sake of learning, that is one of the principles I live by but to be an FA you don't need to be a genius. So, to the large amount of middle class wage jobs that take years of preparation and hard work, I don't think FA's should be complaining because they get a rowdy passenger or two. And, most of them don't!

Although I am not an FA, I guarantee you that I would like the job. I would deal with all of the cons which in my opinion are small. As long as you make something good, it is good (to a certain extent). My point is, if you are not going to like the job as an FA, then why even think about it as a career choice? Maybe it is because it is a pretty high paying job for the little work it takes to become one! I just don't see the cons about being an FA. Sure, some days will be not that fun or will be a little depressing, but why even think about being an FA if you don't like to do what the job entails?

Honestly, one of the reasons why I would want to be a pilot for a European airlines is for one of the reasons you said, not every layover is Amsterdam or Nice. Well, in Europe, most are! I have to say most of the layovers in the US sound pretty crappy, so I would think NYC would be the best one. It is all a matter of opinion in the end, but usually you see a trend in opinions leaning to one direction. And you don't provide any claim for the comment on how most crews loath NYC! I fly out of NYC every time I go on a plane and I know for a fact from talking to many crew members that NYC is usually their top or one of their top choices. Even HAL wrote a trip report on how he was looking forward to his layover in NYC and he is a pilot.
 
wilco737
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Mon May 19, 2008 7:57 pm

Crews are grumpy?! I only had one weird crew so far: it was on WestJet... Sorry, but never again! And pretty much all of my other flights in my life I never had a bad crew (as passenger)...
When i was on duty, well, sometimes some weird crews are there for sure... but not very often...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
PGNCS
Posts: 2249
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:07 am

RE: Why Are Crews So Grumpy?

Mon May 19, 2008 10:37 pm



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 26):
See now you get mad at me for saying how I am ignorant and have no authority to make a comment about that, but the whole fact that you just sputter about how I know nothing and therefore cannot comment is pure ignorance itself.

How is it ignorant? I actually DO know what I'm talking about. I'm not mad at you, you just have given me no reason to give any credence to your opinions. You think it is a glamorous job, and that "strutting down the terminal in uniform is a dream"; this shows a shallow understanding of the job or industry at BEST.

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 26):
I have been on planes hundreds of times in my life.

Hey, guess what? I have been flying planes since 1978, and have been at my current carrier for 17 years.

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 26):
For most jobs it takes years of sleepless nights and odd hours to complete training such as college and grad school.

Not most jobs, maybe most jobs you would WANT, though.

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 26):
My point is, if you are not going to like the job as an FA, then why even think about it as a career choice?

Great point. My point is that you have no way of knowing, as you don't know what the job actually entails.

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 26):
Maybe it is because it is a pretty high paying job for the little work it takes to become one!

Like I made clear earlier (with support from Phil), you will not start in the career field making much money and you will pay your dues.

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 26):
I just don't see the cons about being an FA.

I know you don't. While optimism is great, informed pragmatism is more applicable to the real world.

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 26):
why even think about being an FA if you don't like to do what the job entails?

From the Department of Redundancy Department. See above.

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 26):
And you don't provide any claim for the comment on how most crews loath NYC!

I don't have to. I fly into New York every week and know hundreds of other people who do too. I have most assuredly done more international crossings out of JFK as a crew member than you have had flights in your life, so I am pretty comfortable with the subject matter here. The layover in the city is something many people enjoy, but virtually nobody likes the operation at JFK (I personally know no one who does, though I'm sure there is a statistical outlier there somewhere), which you perceive as exciting and wonderful.

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 26):
I fly out of NYC every time I go on a plane and I know for a fact from talking to many crew members that NYC is usually their top or one of their top choices.

Many international crew members like the layover in the city; the operation at JFK is a complete goatrope.

If you want to be a FA, fine; go be a FA once you finish school. After you have done it for a couple of years THEN come back and tell us the pros AND cons of the job. You will find a surprisingly attentive audience here for industry professionals who understand the industry and their role in it.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests