skord
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Use Of Window Blinds

Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:38 am

Dear All,

Last week i was on a VS flight MCO-MAN and the Cabin Manager "orderded us" ,via 3 PA announcements , to close our Window blinds so as to allow everyone to sleep. Not many people did this as it was 7.30pm so in the final PA was the hidden message "the Crew will have to come and do it, and we wont be happy about it!!"
I found it rude, and and quite offensive. Basically they wanted us all asleep asap. I choose a window for the exact reason of being able to look out of the dam thing, enjoy the scenery, and take photos! On a side-note, im slightly Claustrophobic, and therefore an outside view, even if dark, relaxes me somewhat. I was forced to close mine as the announcements were so frequent, passengers were looking at me as mine was the only one open and i felt rather intimidated.

So, my question is....

1) Whats your views on this.

2) Which Airlines (pref long-haul) are really stringent, or lax, on this.

3) Can the Crew really inforce this?

I fly a mix of Y/C across the Atlantic and im finding it more and more commom, even in C!!
 
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fxramper
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:24 am

It helps save fuel for the airline and keeps ticket prices low.  rotfl 
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:01 am

Open them all, period! Sleep, who can sleep on an airplane unless you've been over served your favorite adult beverage!  Smile
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
henkybaby
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:40 am



Quoting SKORD (Thread starter):
I fly a mix of Y/C across the Atlantic and im finding it more and more commom, even in C!!

I find it extremely rude if pax refuse to close their blinds. One open window will light up the entire cabin ruining it for everybody else. So in my opinion it should be enforced (as it luckily is with many airlines) especially on red-eyes.

You (luckily) will find very few passengers in C (and hardly any in F) who do not respect this unwritten etiquette. I suggest you do next time. It will help keep passengers happy.

(It has nothing to do with the crew needing a rest and wanting you out for the night. They will be harassed by passengers to get you to close the blinds and they want to avoid that.)
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DABZF
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:50 am



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 3):
It will help keep passengers happy.

... will not keep me happy nor the thread starter!

I too like to look outside the window when in window seat. Especially if it is sunset or sunrise!
Yes, maybe little bit unpolite for the people who like to sleep and can not sleep when it's light (which I assume are anyway minority) but on the other hand it's unpolite for the people who like to look outside (who also are a minority)!
Which minority is it more appropriate to annoy? Good question...
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henkybaby
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:14 am

No, it is not a question. That is why the crew ask passengers to close their blinds, you see? That is also why people with the blinds open are ALWAYS but a few in Y, hardly (if) any in C and probably none in F.

For the life of me I cannot imagine how window passengers cannot be a substantial minority on any long flight anyways. Most seats are not window seats. You cannot make the argument that the same amount op people want to be woken up by sunrise or cannot go to sleep before sunset because you and very few others want to see the bloody thing. Besides, even when passengers don't sleep, keeping the cabin dark will help prevent jet lag. Try talking to a flight attendant who flies across the Atlantic often.

On a day flight I find it open for debate, but even on my last day flight (MRU-LHR in F) everyone politely closed their blinds for those passengers wanting to sleep.

Shut the blind please, it is common courtesy.

[Edited 2008-06-25 03:19:00]
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mauiman31
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:46 pm

AA started having all blinds pulled at boarding - during warm weather months and destinations to keep the plane cooler - save on the ac pre-takeoff. I also find that a bit claustrophobic (particularly at boarding) and usually go a head and raise the shade at my seat once I am seated. No one has said anything when I have done that on AA.

Long haul movie watching and sleeping. . . well, by that part of the flight it doesn't bother me and I comply.

Can they inforce it? Well, as discussed many times here, I would be hesitant to disobey any directive from a US carrier crew member, unless prepared for the consequences.
 
starguy
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:21 pm

On day flights we recommend it to reduce glare on the IFE screens, but on night flights we enforce it because all it takes is one person to open their blind when the sun is rising and you can wake up a dozen other customers who end up moaning at the crew like they should do something about it, that is why we as crew make such a big deal out keeping them closed until breakfast.

We don't mind a customer having a little peek outside, but trust me, I have done enough flights to know that at 37000 ft up, it all looks the same the whole way across the atlantic at night and you may fall asleep and leave it open, then I have to reach over you, waking you and the two people sitting next to you to either try and close it myself or have you snap at me when I wake you to close it because the sun is shining in someones face on the other side of the cabin.

The crew aren't being difficult, it's just that we have as many as 400 people to have to consider, it's about more than just one person wanting to have a look at the sunrise.

Whatever the situation, it does not excuse unprofessional PAs being made throughout the cabin by the crew or rude and uncooperative passengers who don't consider the comfort of the passengers around them.
 
PanAm747
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:34 pm

Sorry folks - if you want to sleep on a flight, bring along a blindfold and noise-cancelling earphones.

If it's a red-eye flight, the shades shouldn't make that much difference.

If it's a daytime flight, the window seat should have the decision as to whether or not the shade is up or down. If you've booked the flight just to see the movie, you've got MAJOR problems...

If the airline wants the shades pulled at the terminal to keep the plane cool, then PULL THEM DOWN.

As for the VS flight crew, you should have reported them. If it was 3 AM, that's one thing...but 7:30 PM? Gimme a break!!
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
ACDC8
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:01 pm



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 5):
No, it is not a question. That is why the crew ask passengers to close their blinds, you see?

No, I don't see.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 5):
That is also why people with the blinds open are ALWAYS but a few in Y, hardly (if) any in C and probably none in F.

Your point is?

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 5):
sunset because you and very few others want to see the bloody thing.

This is how it works, I book my ticket and I make an effort to get a window seat so I can enjoy the flight. Get it? Don't like it, bring an eyeshade.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 3):
You (luckily) will find very few passengers in C (and hardly any in F) who do not respect this unwritten etiquette. I suggest you do next time. It will help keep passengers happy.

It won't keep me happy. I paid my hard earned money for that ticket and I will do everything I can to enjoy the flight, and if that means "annoying" a few people because of the forbidden daylight, so be it, they can deal with it.

I've done well over 100 Trans Atlantic flights and have never had an issue with any fellow passengers and my window blind staying open.

A sunrise at 30 000ft over the North Atlantic is something that I don't see everyday and its amazing, I suggest on your next flight you should risk breaking your "unwritten etiquette" and enjoy it, you may even realize why some of us actually enjoy flying with out 100 channels of PTV and a fully reclining seat.
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:53 pm

Sorry now but I'll have to agree with SKORD. You are perfectly entitled to have your window blind whatever way you want especially when you paid for the seat. I would find it offensive too to tell you the truth if cabin crew "forced" me to close it. I know there are safety regulations to have all window blinds open during certain times (takeoff and landing) and tbh blinds open wouldn't really affect sleepers with noise, cabin lighting etc. At night (which is the time most people sleep) there should be no problems as its dark out anyway.
 
BAViscount
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:09 am

The only time(s) that I have been asked to keep my window blind closed was back in the pre-AVOD (or at least pre seatback entertainment) days so that people stood a chance of being able to see whatever movie we were forced to watch on the main cabin screen. I can't believe that you were asked to keep yours closed at 7:30pm so that people could sleep...who on earth would be trying to sleep at that time of day?? That's both ridiculous and unacceptable.
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RussianJet
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:25 am



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 8):
As for the VS flight crew, you should have reported them.

Interesting. Who would you like them reported to? The window blind police perhaps? Maybe the FBI?
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Viscount724
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:25 am



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 3):
Quoting SKORD (Thread starter):
I fly a mix of Y/C across the Atlantic and im finding it more and more commom, even in C!!

I find it extremely rude if pax refuse to close their blinds. One open window will light up the entire cabin ruining it for everybody else. So in my opinion it should be enforced (as it luckily is with many airlines) especially on red-eyes.

That problem will be solved on the 787 as the crew will be able to override the individual passenger controls of the electronic window dimming system.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:35 am



Quoting BAViscount (Reply 11):
who on earth would be trying to sleep at that time of day??

.....people crossing multiple time zones at over 30,000ft, confined to a metal tube for many long hours?
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fbgdavidson
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:25 am

I'm torn a little on this issue...on a dayflight if you want to sleep then use the eyeshades they give you or bring some of your own. I think too often airlines want to bring the eyeshades down just to get people to sleep so there is less service to be performed. I was on an NRT-SIN flight earlier in the month. All dayflight only about 6hrs, left at midday Tokyo time and arrived at 5pm Singapore time yet the windowshades were pulled down!? In addition I find it annoying when airlines ask you to pull the shades down on a dayflight so passengers can watch 'Kangaroo Jack' or some Hollywood junk they put on. That's what I don't agree with. I've actuallly contested it with flight attendants in the past and they've never asked me to pull them down after explaining. I try to make sure I am looking out the window quite a bit or taking photos of what is going on and I'll pull down extra windowshades leaving the one right beside me (partially) open. I think what they are trying to avoid is passengers who don't care about the view leaving the shade open.

If I've got the impression crews aren't understanding and I really want to see what is going on then I'll open the window and put a blanket over my head which helps to keep quite a bit of the light out.

On a night flight however pull the shade down unless you are watching the Aurora Borealis...one window shade open just a touch can really disturb everyone else when the sun comes up. If you really want to see the sun rise or something else then pull a blanket over your head.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 8):
Sorry folks - if you want to sleep on a flight, bring along a blindfold and noise-cancelling earphones.

If it's a red-eye flight, the shades shouldn't make that much difference.

Do you have curtains in your bedroom?

Quoting BAViscount (Reply 11):
I can't believe that you were asked to keep yours closed at 7:30pm so that people could sleep...who on earth would be trying to sleep at that time of day??


Someone might have flown in from some far outpost and is only halfway through their journey.

However, as with many things I believe the needs of the majority need to be catered for primarily and with overnight longhauls it is fair to say the majority of people, especially a MCO-MAN flight won't be dying for a kip at 6.30pm.

[Edited 2008-06-25 20:32:46]
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skord
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:42 am

We all pay a LOT of money to take these flights. I work hard all year to take my trips, and a HUGE part of my enjoyment is the flight experience. Im quite sure every Transatlantic Airline provides eye-masks for all passengers, so why dont they use them?

If, what Viscount724 says is true, then i will try to avoid 787 flights at all cost! I love watching the Sunset/sunrise... thats the magic of flying! You get to see things you simply can not experience from the ground. I fly with my Partner all the time, he sleeps on all our Trans Atlantic flights without a problem, and our Window Blind being open is not a problem.
 
zkeoj
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:45 am



Quoting FXramper (Reply 1):
t helps save fuel for the airline and keeps ticket prices low.

Nah, it doesn't  Wink BUT maybe they can charge $5 to have the shades up? That would off-set additional fuel costs! Oh, and to make it more efficient, they can charge $5 per 3 hours or so....

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 3):
find it extremely rude if pax refuse to close their blinds.

And I find it extremely rude if pax or crew demand me to have them down!

Quoting DABZF (Reply 4):
will not keep me happy nor the thread starter!

count me in!

Quoting StarGuy (Reply 7):
it's just that we have as many as 400 people to have to consider

Many airlines have 400 pax to consider, and have done so for many years. the blinds-down crap only emerged in recent years. I think there are two possible reasons:

1. no glare on PTVs
2. get pax to sleep asap, so they consume less and are less demanding

Quoting SKORD (Reply 16):
then i will try to avoid 787 flights at all cost!

Me too! I'll fly it to experience it - once! Or, on airlines who don't do that crap...

Sorry, I am totally against such the blinds down enforcement, except for specific reasons, such as safety (take-off and landing) and sitting on the tarmac and prevent the aircraft to get boiling hot...

Cheers
micha
 
RussianJet
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:45 am



Quoting SKORD (Reply 16):
Im quite sure every Transatlantic Airline provides eye-masks for all passengers, so why dont they use them?

Well, maybe in the 70's pal. If you want some today you'll probably be charged about $20 for the privilege.
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N867DA
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:03 pm



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 8):
Sorry folks - if you want to sleep on a flight, bring along a blindfold and noise-cancelling earphones.

 checkmark 

Quoting ZKEOJ (Reply 17):
And I find it extremely rude if pax or crew demand me to have them down!

 checkmark 

. If I want to see a sunrise in flight, I get about a couple chances a year. How often do you sleep in a year? More than twice? Then deal with it another way..buy some good eyeshades or something.

Sometimes I am unfortunate enough to have a crew that forces pax to shut the blinds. Mine go back up halfway within 5 minutes. If that's a bit too bright, I open them a bit every 5-10 minutes to look outside, whcih probably wakes up more people than just leaving it up at all times. I try to respect that some people are sleeping by making sure my head blocks as much light as possible or using a blanket, etc. But what I will not do is leave it down for an entire flight, even if it is 8 hours of darkness.

If 787 windows just dim, but the outside world is still visible that is fine. If they completely blacken the view, then that'll be a very sad thing.
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BAViscount
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:06 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 14):
Quoting BAViscount (Reply 11):
who on earth would be trying to sleep at that time of day??

.....people crossing multiple time zones at over 30,000ft, confined to a metal tube for many long hours?



Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 15):
Someone might have flown in from some far outpost and is only halfway through their journey.

But you could potentially apply that logic to any flight. Who knows where your fellow passengers may have connected from on your short hop from XXX to YYY and what time their body clocks are still set to. You wouldn't find them asking you to close your blinds for that reason on an afternoon hop from London to Dublin for example (although I realise that would be impossible on an FR flight!  Wink ).

Creating a false sleeping environment at 7:30pm is not going to make people sleep if they're just not tired.
Ladies & gentlemen this is Captain Tobias Wilcock welcoming you aboard Coconut Airways flight 372 to Bridgetown Barb
 
GST
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:35 pm

I've found cheap eyemasks at every international airport I've ever visited since I can remember. And the best thing? they're re-usable!

I can kinda see the reason for asking for the blinds to be closed at night (10:00pm at place of departure onwards), especially towards the middle-rear of the aircraft when someone may have the flash of the rotating beacon reflected off the winglet stright into their eyes, but not in the day, and not in the evening.

Yes, there is nothing to stop you putting a blanket over your head as you look out. Unless of course, the person next to you wants to look out at the same time.

If airlines seek to minimise your control of the window, they should charge discounted ammounts for window seats, not charge extra for an option they refuse to give you.

I do like the external cameras some aircraft have these days. I do know they are primarily for cockpit use, but it would perhaps be nice if each camera view could be always viewable on the seatback tv screens in dedicated channels. If they do insist on closing blinds, there should at least be some means of external view. The reason we put dozens of structural weakspots known as windows in these aluminium tubes called aeroplanes is so people do not get disorientated and sickly after all. Why are they there if they are not allowed to do the job?
 
henkybaby
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:53 pm

Again: closing the blinds helps to prevent jet-lag. Not only for passengers, but also for the hard working attendants.

Also it is just etiquette on long flights, but not one most of the more passionate posters have heard of. Luckily I fly in C or F and these travellers are either more seasoned, more polite or share a common desire to arrive rested.

The logic is as follows: one passenger opening his blinds will inconvenience many. The need of the many out-way the need of the one (or few).

All passengers have paid money to be transported from A to B. I think that passengers who travel for work instead of pleasure may have even spend a lot more. You have not paid to watch a beautiful sunset or sunrise. You paid to be transported and that is what you are getting.

Mind you: I like the view too. I sometimes feel annoyed too if the shades are going down too early or are kept down very long. I choose to respect the comfort of my fellow passengers over my own desire to gaze at the sun.

On a day flight I find it utter nonsense, but on a red-eye (especially eastwards, where the night is shorter) it is just plain rude to follow the me-myself-I-logic I read here.
Wherever you go, there you are!
 
PITingres
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:06 pm



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 22):
closing the blinds helps to prevent jet-lag.

Nonsense.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 22):
one passenger opening his blinds will inconvenience many.

I have no problem with inconveniencing "many" if they a) really need to sleep in daylight and b) are too inconsiderate of others to bring their own eyemasks.

I have closed my blinds when the sun angle is causing distress to others, and I'll gladly put it partway down on a polar flight that's in daylight for most if not all of the flight. Beyond that, forget it. If someone needs sleep that badly they should expect to rely on their own resources, and not expect me to cater to them. (Especially a "business" traveler, who if a frequent flyer really ought to realize these things.)
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
henkybaby
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:24 pm

Quoting PITIngres (Reply 23):
Nonsense.

Well, if you say so... You really don't know that creating a long artificial night on a eastbound flight helps people to reset their biological clock or do you just want to have it your way?

Here is a quote:
Create as dark an environment on the plane as possible. Bright lights have a strong effect on a person's body clock. [...] Closing the window shade and turning off the overhead cabin lights may also help. Sleep on the plane if your flight has an early morning arrival time.

I am glad there are so few passengers like you. Me, me, me, me, me....

I bring my shades, I bring my earplugs. Luckily I get the PJs from the airline.   Still find it more restfull if the cabin is dark and I can assure you a lot of passengers agree with me. Do you think cabin crew ask you to close the blind because nobody wants it? How stubborn can you be.

Anyways, 'nough said. I will never convince the people who only care about their view. Only you can look outside. Only rows A and J (or whatever the other side is). Not anybody else. So it is just you and you alone who benefits. Nobody else. Keep that in mind the next time you so gloriously open the blind and think 'to hell with the rest of the world, I want my view!'

EDIT:

Just out of curiousity please tell me what you would do in the following scenario's:

1. All other blinds in the plane are shut, indicating the majority of the plane wants to sleep. Would you comply?

2. Three passengers in your area ask you to close the blind in scenario 1 (indicating a strong desire and a majority). Would you comply?

3. Three passengers in your area ask you to close the blind but some (but only a few) other blinds are open too. You could make a case for yourself or make 3 passengers happy. Would you comply?

[Edited 2008-06-26 11:52:05]
Wherever you go, there you are!
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2535
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:16 pm



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 5):
On a day flight I find it open for debate, but even on my last day flight (MRU-LHR in F) everyone politely closed their blinds for those passengers wanting to sleep.

What airline would that have benn on, since all airlines serving MRU from LHR offer only a J product as their highest service tier, unless you classify VS' Upper Class as F, which it clearly isn't...
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
henkybaby
Posts: 469
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:26 pm

Quoting Ushermittwoch (Reply 25):
What airline would that have benn on, since all airlines serving MRU from LHR offer only a J product as their highest service tier, unless you classify VS' Upper Class as F, which it clearly isn't...

That would be BA. They fly a 4 class 747. Look it up.

More here; http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ums/trip_reports/read.main/127612/

And for the hell of it, proof I leave the blinds down.
Big version: Width: 800 Height: 536 File size: 22kb
Mood picture BA First class seat


[Edited 2008-06-26 12:29:14]
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ACDC8
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:41 pm



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 24):
So it is just you and you alone who benefits. Nobody else



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 24):
Keep that in mind the next time you so gloriously open the blind and think 'to hell with the rest of the world, I want my view!'

Heres the thing, everyone who books a ticket has a chance at a window seat. You don't want it then deal with the fact that someone who actually enjoys looking out the window during a flight will get it. You want it closed? Then you better get that seat before I do.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 24):
1. All other blinds in the plane are shut, indicating the majority of the plane wants to sleep. Would you comply?

The only time I've ever seen the other blinds shut is when the cabin crew requested the passengers to close them, usually for the film being shown on the center screen. Never in my 100+ Trans Atlantic flights have I ever been told that my shade has to be down.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 24):
2. Three passengers in your area ask you to close the blind in scenario 1 (indicating a strong desire and a majority). Would you comply?

Those three passengers had the same chance at getting the window seat as I did. They didn't get it, too bad for them.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 24):
3. Three passengers in your area ask you to close the blind but some (but only a few) other blinds are open too. You could make a case for yourself or make 3 passengers happy. Would you comply?

Just out of curiosity, are these three passengers then same ones who smush their carry-on bags on top mine? Are they the same three passengers that fully recline their seat backs during dinner service? Are they same three passengers who are sitting in row 15 but run up to the gate when they call boarding for rows 35-45? Are they the same passengers who bitch and complain because the check-in process takes to long and when its finally their turn, they only then start to look for their ticket and passport. Are these the same three passengers that grab a suitcase at the baggage claim, realizing its not theirs so they just leave it there instead of putting it back on the belt?

Bottom line, it's my trip, one that I paid for with my own money. I don't care about making other people happy, thats not my job. Other people do things that piss me off during the flight, but I don't complain about it, why should I? What ever it is I'm sure I'll get over it.

I guess enjoying my trip at the cost of other passengers bitterness makes me a selfish git, oh well, so be it.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
henkybaby
Posts: 469
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:46 pm

You are indeed. But you're German so that is to be expected! 

And I am glad you finally found out that leaving the blind open is about as anti-social as

"smush their carry-on bags on top mine? Are they the same three passengers that fully recline their seat backs during dinner service? Are they same three passengers who are sitting in row 15 but run up to the gate when they call boarding for rows 35-45? Are they the same passengers who bitch and complain because the check-in process takes to long and when its finally their turn, they only then start to look for their ticket and passport. Are these the same three passengers that grab a suitcase at the baggage claim, realizing its not theirs so they just leave it there instead of putting it back on the belt?"

[Edited 2008-06-26 12:49:00]

[Edited 2008-06-26 12:49:31]
Wherever you go, there you are!
 
ACDC8
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:57 pm



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 28):
You are indeed. But you're German so that is to be expected!

Living in Canada, German flag is on my profile for the Euro 2008, which reminds me, is Holland still in the playoffs? Big grin

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 28):
And I am glad you finally found out that leaving the blind open is about as anti-social as

"smush their carry-on bags on top mine? Are they the same three passengers that fully recline their seat backs during dinner service? Are they same three passengers who are sitting in row 15 but run up to the gate when they call boarding for rows 35-45? Are they the same passengers who bitch and complain because the check-in process takes to long and when its finally their turn, they only then start to look for their ticket and passport. Are these the same three passengers that grab a suitcase at the baggage claim, realizing its not theirs so they just leave it there instead of putting it back on the belt?"

Has absolutly nothing to do with being anti-social. Its a simple matter of something that bothers some people and doesn't bother others, nothing more. Point being, when I travel, I'm relaxed, very few things get my irate. If I shared your view, I wouldn't find it worth the effort to get pissed off that someone doesn't want to close their blind, I'll find other ways to entertain myself or make due.

You have a problem with people leaving their shades up, thats your issue, you need to learn to deal with it, not me.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
henkybaby
Posts: 469
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:22 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 29):
which reminds me, is Holland still in the playoffs?

In that light my little playful remark was intended...  cheerful 

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 29):
you need to learn to deal with it

As I said, not too many issues with it in C or F. And indeed: lets agree to disagree. We can remain swinging arguments left and right but neither party will be convinced.
Wherever you go, there you are!
 
PITingres
Posts: 1000
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:59 am

RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:43 pm



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 30):
neither party will be convinced.

Nope.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 24):
Just out of curiousity please tell me what you would do in the following scenario's:
(snipped)

Most likely leave my blind partly open in all cases. I might close it most of the way for a while if we're in a cloud deck and there's nothing to see anyway. If someone were to make a huge production over it, I could close the blind all the way, but then the reading light would have to come on so that I could see my book. I doubt that that would be a win for the complainant.

In my original post, I forgot to include: I'll definitely close the blinds on the ground if requested for heat load minimization.
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
henkybaby
Posts: 469
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:00 pm



Quoting PITIngres (Reply 31):
I'll definitely close the blinds on the ground if requested for heat load minimization.

How is that different? What if I want to see the activity at the airport?
Wherever you go, there you are!
 
zkeoj
Posts: 980
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:00 am

RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:44 pm



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 24):
I will never convince the people who only care about their view.

or those people will never convince you because you only care about your view....

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 24):
Me, me, me, me, me....

you you you....

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 24):
Luckily I get the PJs from the airline.

by now we realised that you fly C and J.....

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 24):
All other blinds in the plane are shut, indicating the majority of the plane wants to sleep.

the fact that the blinds are shut doesn't indicate that the majority wants to sleep. Can be watching movies, can be they don't care, can be the crew has ordered them to be shut...

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 24):
Three passengers in your area ask you to close the blind in scenario 1

I might, depending on how they ask.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 24):
Three passengers in your area ask you to close the blind but some (but only a few) other blinds are open too. Y

why would I? Doesn't make a difference, since - as you pointed out - one open window will lighten the whole cabin....

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 30):
ot too many issues with it in C or F.

I am too lazy to scroll up....how many times did you tell us now?

Cheers
micha
 
RussianJet
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:19 pm



Quoting BAViscount (Reply 20):
Creating a false sleeping environment at 7:30pm is not going to make people sleep if they're just not tired.

True, but if you do want to get sleep then it will help. If you don't want to sleep there's still plenty of other things you can do.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
HorizonGirl
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:48 am

I think that it is ridiculous to "force" passengers to close their window blinds.
Although it is important that some passengers sleep, even though I have no idea how anyone of sound and stable mind could sleep on an airplane in the first place, there are some people who find it very important to be able to have a view out the window. I would not be able to do this, not only for the reason that I love looking at the wing, taking photos, and the scenery, I also need to see through the window to avoid becoming claustrophobic. This could be a serious problem for some people. And here's something else to think about. The other day I heard that some carriers may begin to charge extra for window seats. If you paid for it, if you paid more for it, should you not be able to take advantage of it? Sure if everyone had their shades down, I wouldn't disrespect everyone on the pane by keeping just mine up. But honestly, an eye mask or blind fold wouldn't be that expensive. Even an improvised one would do the job. If they just put a few dollars towards one, maybe everyone could be happy?


Devon
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IAHFLYR
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:02 am



Quoting HorizonGirl (Reply 35):
I think that it is ridiculous to "force" passengers to close their window blinds.

 yes 
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FlyboyOz
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:26 am

Well...Cathay Pacific, Qantas, ANZ and Singapore airlines crew always keep asking pax to close the windows...that's normal.
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ACDC8
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:46 am



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 32):
How is that different? What if I want to see the activity at the airport?

Well, maybe I want to have a quick power nap during taxi from or to the runway.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 30):
lets agree to disagree. We can remain swinging arguments left and right but neither party will be convinced.

Theres nothing to agree or disagree on. You like your shade down, I like mine up. If you have the window seat, you can put it down and if I have the window seat I'll leave it open. In other words, you can be Felix and I'll be Oscar.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
skord
Posts: 112
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:39 am

ACDC8!!

I agree with your views 100%!!!!!

I just wish i had the guts to follow your ideas through. Im glad that you are on my side however..............  Big grin I dont think i would like to get on your bad side!  Silly

I find it quite distressing that people have commented on the fact that various Airlines are requiring this action more and more often. I honestly am beginning to believe this is a Crew request purely to get people to sleep, and thus, avoiding any extra cabin service. With reduced numbers of Crew being announced on various long-haul flights (UA) then the more the pax sleep, the less we want, and the less they require off the Crew!!!

With regards to eye-masks, last time i checked, even the cheapest of UK Charter airlines operating Sanford Orlando- UK provide eye-masks.(RussianJet Reply 18) so this is not an issue (and they DONT cost $20!!!)

Sleep on a TA is always poor to say the least, but the chance to see a Sunset/sunrise at 30,000ft doesnt happen every day, and its amazing to see. So is crossing the Pacific, or Eastern Europe, or the North Pole, or the International Date line or Sparse areas of Eastern Russia. My list goes on, and on, and on....

These are rare, and exciting sights for me, and i WILL see them, and PHOTOGRAPH them if i want to! If it annoys you then please turn the other way. If the next thing you want to see is the drab, ugly Immigration Hall at XYZ airport, then thats your choice!
 
henkybaby
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:38 am

My references to J and F where not meant to illustrate my class of travel (I fly Y a lot too) but where a (unsuccessful) attempt to illustrate that more seasoned travellers do comply with this request.

I do feel for the claustrophobia argument, although if one really suffers from it one might better stay away from airplanes all together. A serious panic attack could force the plane to land. If medication works, you don't need the blinds up either.

I have heard all the arguments for leaving them open. Honestly, I remember a few sunsets and sunrises I would not like to have missed. I believe that all airlines ask you to open the blinds for take off and landing, so nothing will be missed there either.

I just hope that next time you leave you blinds open forcing the whole cabin to adjust to the sunlight and disturbing their circadian rhythm you will at least think twice. If you are really so convinced that nobody minds and it is just me, me, me complaining, why don't you ask your fellow passengers their opinion next time you fly a red-eye? I dare you.  Wink

I can only keep hoping that more and more airlines will enforce this rule. BA does, CX does, KLM does, QF does... That's enough for me for now.

Flying is fun (that's why we are all here, right?) but it is not a solo activity.
Wherever you go, there you are!
 
ACDC8
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:52 am



Quoting SKORD (Reply 39):
I dont think i would like to get on your bad side!

Why not?  devil 

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 40):
My references to J and F where not meant to illustrate my class of travel (I fly Y a lot too) but where a (unsuccessful) attempt to illustrate that more seasoned travellers do comply with this request.

Please define a "seasoned traveller"? If we're taliking frequent flyers here, then I'm more than seasoned. "Seasoned travellers" each have their own whims and tricks, mine is to leave the blind open. I've done it on each of my 100+ Trans Atlantic flights with out so much as a whimper from the crew or fellow passengers.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 40):
I just hope that next time you leave you blinds open forcing the whole cabin to adjust to the sunlight and disturbing their circadian rhythm you will at least think twice. If you are really so convinced that nobody minds and it is just me, me, me complaining, why don't you ask your fellow passengers their opinion next time you fly a red-eye? I dare you.

Why should I ask anyone? I have the window seat, I reserved it so I can look out the window. If anyone wants control of the blind to keep it shut, then by all means please reserve the seat before I do. If I beat you to it, your shit out of luck! Deal with it.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 40):
I can only keep hoping that more and more airlines will enforce this rule. BA does, CX does, KLM does, QF does... That's enough for me for now.

KLM does not, nor does BA. They request it, but they don't "enforce" it.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 40):
Flying is fun (that's why we are all here, right?) but it is not a solo activity.

Thats right, its not a solo activity, so have some common sense and let the people enjoy the view they paid for. You wanna sleep, book a hotel room.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
henkybaby
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:04 am

ACDC8: I get it. You are one tough cookie! Your mother will be proud.

I always have a window seat, but that won't help. As I said: one window 2 rows away will light up the cabin enough for a lot of passengers to be bothered.

The only thing I suggested is that next time you verify your assumption that you are not a pain in the *ss by asking your fellow travellers. But since you are to macho/tough/whatever to care, I have little hope you will.

The little experiment could also prove me wrong of course.

I do understand the desire to look outside, but I also don't play my music very loud at home, I don't do building work after 8pm, etc. It is not obligatory, but I CHOOSE to take my fellow beings into consideration. You do not. That, as you so eloquently put it, is your choice.

What I think is a very nice invention is the new shades in QF's A380. They have sort of a halfway setting. (Or was this in the 787?) Would you be prepared to use that?

[Edited 2008-06-27 03:22:41]
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PITingres
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:09 pm



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 42):
I do understand the desire to look outside, but I also don't play my music very loud at home, I don't do building work after 8pm, etc. It is not obligatory, but I CHOOSE to take my fellow beings into consideration. You do not. That, as you so eloquently put it, is your choice.

I suppose I should let this go, but let's try one more time.

The thing is, this other hypothetical passenger who hypothetically has a burning desire for sleep, *has another option*. Namely, eyeshades. That way, everyone wins -- I get to look out the window, and Ms Jaded Businesswoman gets to sleep.

I don't play loud music at home in the middle of the night either, because that intrudes on other people unpredictably, with no reasonable defence on their part. I think that having an eyeshade and using it *is* perfectly reasonable, especially in this situation where a) it's of limited duration and b) everyone has foreknowledge of what will happen and what the possibilities are.

So give it a rest. You seem to be positioning this as a consideration for my fellow man issue -- fine, just remember that consideration goes both ways. Let the sleeper bring his or her own personal darkness, and that maximizes the options for everyone. I would take grave exception to someone inconveniencing me to make up for their own lack of foresight, and whether it's one person or a whole planeload of inconsiderate people makes no bloody difference.
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Vasu
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:55 pm

Don't VS give out free eyeshades...?



... so what's the problem with open window shades??
 
ACDC8
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:31 pm



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 42):
ACDC8: I get it. You are one tough cookie! Your mother will be proud.

She is, thanks!

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 42):
I always have a window seat, but that won't help. As I said: one window 2 rows away will light up the cabin enough for a lot of passengers to be bothered.

Guess what? Other then yourself and maybe a few others, no one else is bothered. You're just assuming that others are bothered because you are bothered. Another thing, my overhead reading light generates more light then an open window during dawn/dusk. Shall I turn that off as well for your comfort? Or are you suggesting that I keep the blind closed during daylight hours as well? I mean, you need your precious sleep so I'm sure I'll be willing to for go watching the earth slip past me just so you won't be bothered.  Yeah sure

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 42):
The only thing I suggested is that next time you verify your assumption that you are not a pain in the *ss by asking your fellow travellers. But since you are to macho/tough/whatever to care, I have little hope you will.

Yes, I am very macho/tough/whatever to care ....  Yeah sure

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 42):
but I CHOOSE to take my fellow beings into consideration.

As do I, which is why I rarely recline my seat, don't take up much overhead bin space, stay seated until my row has been called for boarding, let my seat partner have the center armrest, among other things. Pretty macho/tough/whatever to care of me, isn't it?

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 42):
You do not

Get over yourself.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 42):
That, as you so eloquently put it, is your choice.

Bingo! It's MY choice! Other people have choices NOT just you! Get it?

Have you been even reading the thread at all? It seems you're on your own with on this one.
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henkybaby
Posts: 469
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:21 pm



Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 45):
It seems you're on your own with on this one.

In this thread, yes. That's why I suggested you check with your fellow passengers next time. Just in case I got misinterpreted: I don't care if the blinds are open during the actual night part of the flight. It is just when there is a very early sunrise for instance it would be nicer to maintain the illusion of night longer.

I have expressed empathy for your point of view in most of my replies, but it seems you are to preoccupied with the tough talk to notice.

I do not consider that I have a god given right to closed blinds, like you consider to have a god given right to open ones. I put on my sleeping mask and try to get some sleep. I just know that there are people who are bothered even if they are wearing masks, for reasons I am not going to repeat for the umpteenth time.

I am happy that you do not recline your seat, something I always do. I also bring the largest possible carry on on board and sometimes secretly fight for the center armrest (when flying Y) so I am also not stating that I make the perfect traveller. These are however not things that the crew requests, unlike the closing of the blinds.

We were making this very ad hominem and I apologize. I am still defending the general principle however.
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iairallie
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:05 am

On my airline it is a request not a requirement. To make IFE viewing better and to allow others to sleep. I travel with an eyemask or toss my pashmina over my head if I want to sleep. You cannot rely on others to make the flight comfortable for you so if getting some shut eye is important plan ahead for it.
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ACDC8
Posts: 7205
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RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:43 am



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 46):
That's why I suggested you check with your fellow passengers next time.

I've asked, its never bothered anyone. I'll take experience over some opinion I've read online any day.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 46):
I have expressed empathy for your point of view in most of my replies, but it seems you are to preoccupied with the tough talk to notice.

The only thing you've expreseed is arrogance .....

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 3):
I find it extremely rude if pax refuse to close their blinds



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 3):
One open window will light up the entire cabin ruining it for everybody else.



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 3):
You (luckily) will find very few passengers in C (and hardly any in F) who do not respect this unwritten etiquette.



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 5):



No, it is not a question. That is why the crew ask passengers to close their blinds, you see? That is also why people with the blinds open are ALWAYS but a few in Y, hardly (if) any in C and probably none in F.



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 5):
On a day flight I find it open for debate, but even on my last day flight (MRU-LHR in F) everyone politely closed their blinds for those passengers wanting to sleep.



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 5):
Shut the blind please, it is common courtesy.



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 22):
Also it is just etiquette on long flights, but not one most of the more passionate posters have heard of.



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 22):
Luckily I fly in C or F and these travellers are either more seasoned, more polite or share a common desire to arrive rested.



Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 22):
The logic is as follows: one passenger opening his blinds will inconvenience many. The need of the many out-way the need of the one (or few).

.... and so on and so forth.

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 46):
I do not consider that I have a god given right to closed blinds, like you consider to have a god given right to open ones.

Guess what? I do have a God given right to an open blind. I paid for the seat, I reserved the window seat, see how this works?

Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 46):
I am not going to repeat for the umpteenth time.

Good, you made your point.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
higgi91
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:42 pm

RE: Use Of Window Blinds

Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:58 pm



Quoting SKORD (Thread starter):
the hidden message "the Crew will have to come and do it, and we wont be happy about it!!"

WOW, what they going to do? throw peanuts at you  Silly

and, if it was dark outside then why did they need to close the blinds anyway!? unless you are over the wing and the light is blinding you so much that you cant sleep

AND  Big grin cant they just close their eyes or since it's VS, use their Blindfolds!

Quoting DABZF (Reply 4):
... will not keep me happy nor the thread starter!

me too.

Dan.
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