AA7295
Topic Author
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:19 pm

US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches... He

Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:05 am

I am a US citizen, who will be moving from Australia to the USA soon. I have a question about laptop and USB drive searches. I am fully aware that CBP is allowed to search your harddrive and USB drive. My question is, I have alot (10,000 +) of MP3's that I have on my laptop and also have quite alot of Hollywood movies and TV series on my USB storage drive and laptop.

My question is what rights do I have when entering the USA. Australian law, where I live and am also a citizen of, states that I can make legal copies of DVD's and movies etc, where I have the tangible DVD at home. I make the copies so when I go to mates' houses or when am on the road I can watch movies and TV shows without using the DVD drive which would consume more battery power.

Should I get stopped by customs, and they confiscate the laptop, do they just delete the illegal files or do they delete everything or do they seize your laptop/USB and do not return it.

Note: I have never looked at any form of pornography on this laptop nor do I have any stored on this laptop.
 
wouwout
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:14 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:11 am



Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
Note: I have never looked at any form of pornography on this laptop nor do I have any stored on this laptop.

really  Wink

Porn is not illegal in the US
 
AA7295
Topic Author
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:20 am



Quoting Wouwout (Reply 1):
really

Porn is not illegal in the US

Well what about, the MP3's, TV Shows and Movies?
 
wouwout
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:14 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:42 am

I think just about every laptop and MP3 player that enters the US will have illegal MP3s on it. I don't think US customs has a policy to search every laptop for MP3s (or shows and movies) and decide on the spot if it's illegal or not. You must have seen the lines at US customs. The ability to search drives is there in order to continue searching if somebody is a suspect.

You will be fine, as long as you're not a (would be) terrorist or smuggling drugs  Smile
 
N202PA
Posts: 1280
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2000 9:44 pm

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:16 pm



Quoting Wouwout (Reply 3):
You will be fine, as long as you're not a (would be) terrorist or smuggling drugs

Or carrying illegal pornography, which he's not obviously.
 
DUALRATED
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 4:05 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:48 pm



Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
I have alot (10,000 +) of MP3's that I have on my laptop and also have quite alot of Hollywood movies and TV series on my USB storage drive and laptop.

Don't sweat it, just be honest. Trust me it's not what their looking for.
AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
 
102IAHexpress
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:33 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:02 pm



Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
I am a US citizen, who will be moving from Australia to the USA soon.

Did you purchase your laptop in the US before you left to Australia?
If your laptop was made in Japan---for instance---you might have to pay duty on it each time you brought it back into the US, unless you could prove that you owned it before you left on your trip. Documents that fully describe the item---such as sales receipts, insurance policies, or jeweler's appraisals---are acceptable forms of proof.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
I am fully aware that CBP is allowed to search your harddrive and USB drive.

Indeed, DHS including CBP has full authority to search any electronic device without suspicion in the same way that it can inspect briefcases.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
Should I get stopped by customs, and they confiscate the laptop, do they just delete the illegal files or do they delete everything or do they seize your laptop/USB and do not return it.

CBP tends to focus on national security, child porn, and narcotics smuggling. But if they searched your laptop and saw that it was filled with material that was in violation of US copyright law; kiss that laptop goodbye.
 
fly2yyz
Posts: 643
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:45 pm

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:10 pm



Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 6):

CBP tends to focus on national security, child porn, and narcotics smuggling. But if they searched your laptop and saw that it was filled with material that was in violation of US copyright law; kiss that laptop goodbye.

This is surprising, because I've even have a CBP agent basically open my laptop and it had been closed without being shut down. So when my laptop opened, there low and behold was my winamp with my playlist du jour, he was like great music and waved me through. That was that.
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5026
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:10 pm



Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
Australian law, where I live and am also a citizen of, states that I can make legal copies of DVD's and movies etc, where I have the tangible DVD at home.

Same under US law technicallly.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 6):
US copyright law; kiss that laptop goodbye.

They have to be able to prove it, for all the US customs know, he could have ripped them from CD's that he had.


Don't worry about it, I have been out of the country a few times with my computer and stuff, they don't even ask or really look at it through customs. Just have to take it out of the case to go through standard airport security.
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3625
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:22 pm



Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
Should I get stopped by customs, and they confiscate the laptop, do they just delete the illegal files or do they delete everything or do they seize your laptop/USB and do not return it.

Relax, the odds are still in your favor, as long as you don't seem to have a Middle Eastern look or origin (despite racial profiling being illegal in the US, it is a fact the large majority of people whose laptop were seized belong to either group). Just this year, I have gone through customs over a dozen times and I have yet had anyone even notice I had a laptop (went through agricultural inspection about three or four times though, on account of bringing food in, and still, a non-event every time).

This being said, laptop seizure is a concern in the business community. CBP will not return to you a laptop after deleting "illegal" files. If it is illegal to possess something in the US, it is generally illegal to try and bring it in the country as well. If CBP decides to inspect or hold your laptop and becomes convinced you are a mass copyright violator, your laptop will be seized as evidence and you will need a lawyer. If they do hold your laptop and find nothing to object to on it, you might get it back in two weeks, or you might not get it back in two years. Don't ask, it's CBP, they do what they want, for now...

If you are truly concerned about CBP looking at your laptop (and again, the odds of that happening are pretty small), there are a few ways you can go about to breathe easier:
-Use web-based storage. Copy everything "incriminating" on your laptop to one of many such services available for a fee. Many corporations, including my employer, have gone a similar route. Confidential files are stored on an online server to which I connect from anywhere in the world via an encrypted link.
-Copy everything to DVD or an external hard drive and ship them off with your household goods (assuming you have any).

Do not encrypt the files you don't want CBP to look at and leave them on your laptop. True, CBP cannot break PGP encryption, but they don't need to, they have you, and if you refuse to give them your key, you will (re)acquaint yourself with the intricacies of the US legal system very quickly.

Overall though, relax. You'll be fine. You're highly unlikely to be asked to show your laptop, and even if you are, copyright violation isn't their main priority, unless it's an illegal copy of a child porn movie.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
102IAHexpress
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:33 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:37 pm

Again, the chances of CBP seizing your laptop are very low, but to just "relax" or "don't worry about it" is just foolish.

You're flying from Australia. Which means that your point of entry will probably be the US west coast (more specifically the US 9th Circuit), this is key.
Look at:
United States v. Arnold, 2008 WL 1776525 at *4 (9th Cir. 2008)
"reasonable suspicion is not needed for customs officials to search a laptop or other electronic device at the international border."

If CBP believes your electronic device is involved in some violation of US law, I can assure you they will hold on to it. If your electronic device is cleared of any wrong doing, then yes, you should get it back promptly, but good luck with that.
 
DUALRATED
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 4:05 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:44 pm



Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 9):
unless it's an illegal copy of a child porn movie.

I don't think you will find a legal copy! Not here in the US anyway  no 
AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
 
United1
Posts: 2827
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:45 pm

I wouldn't sweat it, as others have said CBP is really not interested in finding music/movies/porn (except child porn.) I'm assuming that you use a US passport for entry into the US that also lowers the chances of you being searched.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
ualonghaul
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:41 pm

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:48 pm

I really think they have more important things on their minds than finding a cache of illegal MP3 downloads
 
Italianflyer
Posts: 511
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:06 pm

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:17 pm



Quoting UALongHaul (Reply 13):
I really think they have more important things on their minds than finding a cache of illegal MP3 downloads

You would think so.... but they have been cracking down on our flying partners clothing and DVD 'knock offs' from PEK and PVG  Wow!
 
nqyguy
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:56 pm

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:46 pm

Exactly, I get the similar impression. I was watching a documentary on the National Geographic Channel about Miami(?) Airport, and some man got stopped by border control but was reluctant to say why he was in the country, so the officers got a little suspicious. It turned out that that the people he was visiting were illegal immigrants living in Miami or New York or something...so the officers let him on his way. I think I remember that the producer said to the Customs/Police/Border Control: "Aren't you going to look into that?" The officer then came back and said "It's not our business to investigate that, we're here and dedicate our workforce to activities here." (Or something similar.) Depends really I suppose.
 
Jawed
Posts: 312
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:47 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:39 pm

Why don't you just encrypt your hard drive? Check out truecrypt.org. That way it doesn't matter what you are carrying on your laptop, legal or illegal. They wouldn't know.
 
ThePRGuy
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:07 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:41 pm

If you are that concerned - just UPS it the day before you fly.
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
Halophila
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:44 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:43 pm

Relax, if you are as your profile says between 16 and 20, then the likelihood of your computer being searched for illegal material is low. Even more so if you're arriving from Oz, and you don't fit one of the profiles they're looking for. Having said that, if you get stopped by the customs agents, be honest, answer the questions being asked honestly, and relax. The CBP are there mainly to prevent nasties entering the US, and as many have indicated here MP3/DVD/Porn are very low on their list compared to drugs and other nasty stuff coming in.

Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 5):
Don't sweat it, just be honest.

Bingo  Wink
Flown on 707, 717, 727, 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 743 744 74SP 757 753 762 763 772 773 77W D10 DC9 M11 M80 M87
 
Norcal773
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:44 pm

First of all, chances of them looking at your laptop are next to nil and if they do, they won't be looking for MP3's. I've gone through customs in the US about 30 times in the last 2 years or so and I went through customs once because I was randomly picked. They opened my laptop and looked at my pictures, that's it. The guy asked me why I had so many pictures of planes and my answer was 'Hey, I like planes'. He said 'Me too' and I was on my way. I gotta say though that was probably the one time I didn't have pirated DVD's and fake Rolexes in my luggage, Thank God.  wink 
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
DUALRATED
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 4:05 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:56 pm



Quoting Jawed (Reply 16):
Why don't you just encrypt your hard drive? Check out truecrypt.org. That way it doesn't matter what you are carrying on your laptop, legal or illegal. They wouldn't know.

Bad advise, that will not work. no 

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 17):
If you are that concerned - just UPS it the day before you fly.

Now there is an idea, if you don't mind how many pieces in comes in. Oh and it would still be subject to a customs check.


Trust me dude, tell them about your mp3's or whatever you have. They won't care, although if you hide it, and they find it, you now look suspicious. And all bets are off at that point.
AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:01 pm

Since last winter there seems to have been an upswing of CBP inspections at West Coast airports. I know of one airline which even put a memo out to crews reminding them they would be personally held responsible for any illegal merchandise such as DVDs and watches in their possession, and under no case should ever have anything with them that might be construed extra stuff meant for resale in the US.


As for the idea of encrypting your hard drive, that immediately would be a red flag, and would require CBP to confiscate the laptop for further test as a cursory inspection at the airport while the passenger waits would not be feasible.

[Edited 2008-07-19 13:09:57]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
TUNisia
Posts: 1515
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:24 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:03 pm

Our founding fathers would be rolling in their graves if they knew what wimps we've turned into.
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5026
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:10 pm



Quoting Jawed (Reply 16):
Why don't you just encrypt your hard drive? Check out truecrypt.org. That way it doesn't matter what you are carrying on your laptop, legal or illegal. They wouldn't know.

Haha, yeah they would, as LAXintl says below. Plus, its the US government, they have programs and the knowledge to easily get past encryption software that any normal consumer can get.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
That immediately would be a red flag, and would require CBP to confiscate the laptop for further test as a cursory inspection at the airport while the passenger waits would not be feasible.

 
Flighty
Posts: 7648
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:42 pm

This is just silly. If they wanted to look at my laptop, I would say I don't think that is necessary. It is like asking to read what book you are reading. The legalities of this are still under review. Many US Senators etc believe searches and/or duplications of private HDs at the border are illegal. It really depends. Also if you have 256-bit encryption, there is no way in hell they would be able to break it. Mac OS X has 256-bit encryption built into FileVault. There is no way the Feds or anybody else would be able to break it (unless they have a secret key, which I doubt)

As for some BP badge wearing individual, they are so low status that I wouldn't worry about it. At least not if your data is really important to you. Go prepared, but don't be afraid of the US border patrol. Their powers are limited, particularly against US citizens. The notion that the US can inspect private data is not only logistically humorous, but legally humorous as well.
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:03 pm



Quoting DUALRATED (Reply 20):
Quoting Jawed (Reply 16):
Why don't you just encrypt your hard drive? Check out truecrypt.org. That way it doesn't matter what you are carrying on your laptop, legal or illegal. They wouldn't know.

Bad advise, that will not work. no

TrueCrypt can do hidden volumes: a big container file has two drives with different password. Put the "secret" stuff (work docs, Playboy-type pictures) there. Put the really secret stuff in the 2nd partition. When pressed, reveal the first password.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 23):
Plus, its the US government, they have programs and the knowledge to easily get past encryption software that any normal consumer can get.

Maybe, but if the methods are not known to the public, the government won't be using them on you. If the NSA knows how to break TrueCrypt AES encryption they're not going to reveal that fact

What will get you is the temporary files that are left around on the non-encrypted drive.
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3625
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:04 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 24):
The legalities of this are still under review. Many US Senators etc believe searches and/or duplications of private HDs at the border are illegal.

You are quite correct to point out that there is legislative action to rein in the powers of CBP to search and/or seize pretty much anything they like, but until said action results in anything concrete, CBP still has almost limitless powers to check what comes in.

A foreigner who refuses to let CBP seize or search their property is denied entry. A US citizen cannot be denied entry, but the property in question can, so it becomes an issue of whether a US citizen wants to live in that no-man's land before customs inspection long enough for CBP's powers to be limited...

Quoting Flighty (Reply 24):
Also if you have 256-bit encryption, there is no way in hell they would be able to break it.

They don't need to break it, they have you. You will be asked to provide the decryption key. If you refuse, again as a foreigner you are denied entry. If you are a US citizen, you again have the same choice I just pointed above. Go in without, or get adjusted to life between luggage claim and customs inspection. If they don't come after you for hindering the performance of their duties, that is.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
User avatar
legacyins
Posts: 1791
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:09 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 24):
As for some BP badge wearing individual, they are so low status that I wouldn't worry about it. At least not if your data is really important to you. Go prepared, but don't be afraid of the US border patrol. Their powers are limited, particularly against US citizens. The notion that the US can inspect private data is not only logistically humorous, but legally humorous as well.

You are quite incorrect in stating such a staement. That is all I will say.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:21 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 24):
The legalities of this are still under review



Quoting Flighty (Reply 24):
don't be afraid of the US border patrol. Their powers are limited,

There indeed have been cases, and courts have ruled that border inspections provide great deal of latitude.

In one of the more important cases which dealt with laptops specifically (United States v. Romm) 9th Circuit US Court of Appeals(a very liberal court) earlier in 2008 unanimously ruled that CBP may conduct warrantless searches and seizures of laptops without probable cause, and that regular 4th Amendment probable cause rules do not apply at the border.

Looking in a laptop or other digital storage devices (HD, cell phone etc) is similar to looking at anything else in your person such as baggage or documents you might be carrying. Just because technology has moved forward does not mean the traveler is immune from inspection of digital media.

And also there is one important legal difference for folks at border crossings unlike some one sitting at home minding their business-- they voluntarily present themselves for inspection.

Bottom line is that border inspections powers are significantly greater for law enforcement agencies then those inside the US, and have been repeatedly supported by court rulings.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:26 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
Looking in a laptop or other digital storage devices (HD, cell phone etc) is similar to looking at anything else in your person such as baggage or documents you might be carrying. Just because technology has moved forward does not mean the traveler is immune from inspection of digital media.

Oddly enough the importation of bits over the telephone or Internet is subject to more protections.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
And also there is one important legal difference for folks at border crossings unlike some one sitting at home minding their business-- they voluntarily present themselves for inspection.

US citizens have to "voluntarily" present themselves for inspection to exercise their right to return to the US.
 
TWOne
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 9:13 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:46 pm



Quoting TUNisia (Reply 22):
Our founding fathers would be rolling in their graves if they knew what wimps we've turned into.

Indeed they would. I am constantly amazed by people's acceptance of the growing infringements on their civil liberties in the name of "security".
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5982
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:51 pm



Quoting Analog (Reply 29):
US citizens have to "voluntarily" present themselves for inspection to exercise their right to return to the US.

Yes, having chosen, of their own free will, to cross borders and go to another country in the first place.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
planenutz
Posts: 1156
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:50 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:01 pm

I'f I'm not mistaken, CBP will only act on the contents of a laptop computer if specific files are flaggeg by a software system called ENCASE.

http://www.guidancesoftware.com/law_enforcement/index.aspx

They run the program via the USB port. If any files are identified as suspicious, they'll ask you to open that particular one for inspection.

If nefarious material is found then they may seize the laptop or indeed arrest you on the spot.
I also understand there's a specific profile of person tha they will refer for a secondary inspection to perform the analysis, (ie, single middled aged male returning from Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Costa Rica).
Not all who wander are lost....
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:21 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 31):
Yes, having chosen, of their own free will, to cross borders and go to another country in the first place.

Does a US citizen have the right to leave the US? If so, why should you have to sacrifice other rights to exercise that right?
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:37 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 24):
This is just silly. If they wanted to look at my laptop, I would say I don't think that is necessary.

LOL ... you really have little idea of how it works.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 24):
The legalities of this are still under review. Many US Senators etc believe searches and/or duplications of private HDs at the border are illegal. It really depends.

It doesn't depend on what Senators might believe, it depends on the law. Please read what others have written.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 24):
Also if you have 256-bit encryption, there is no way in hell they would be able to break it. Mac OS X has 256-bit encryption built into FileVault. There is no way the Feds or anybody else would be able to break it (unless they have a secret key, which I doubt)

... a great way to find yourself sitting in a small room answering many more questions.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 24):
As for some BP badge wearing individual, they are so low status that I wouldn't worry about it. At least not if your data is really important to you. Go prepared, but don't be afraid of the US border patrol. Their powers are limited, particularly against US citizens. The notion that the US can inspect private data is not only logistically humorous, but legally humorous as well.

I'm interested in why you have such lack of respect for law enforcement agents ... hardly 'low status'  Yeah sure

You might want to check here for a list of all those 'low status' agents that were killed in the line of duty, protecting your butt.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/border_se...cer_memorial/alpha_listing_agents/

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:53 pm



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 34):
I'm interested in why you have such lack of respect for law enforcement agents ... hardly 'low status' Yeah sure

You might want to check here for a list of all those 'low status' agents that were killed in the line of duty, protecting your butt.

That's a bit of a cheap shot. If we're going to allocate status and respect to people for having dangerous jobs to serve us, we should start with the loggers.

People do jobs that entail certain risks. Law enforcement officers take the risks of being killed in a motor vehicle accident or by a criminal (about equal). There are plenty of riskier jobs... I don't necessarily give the people that take those jobs more respect than I give to LEOs.
 
AirNZ
Posts: 544
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:03 pm

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:08 pm



Quoting Analog (Reply 33):
Does a US citizen have the right to leave the US? If so, why should you have to sacrifice other rights to exercise that right?

I don't quite understand what point you are making here, or indeed your question regarding sacrificing other rights. What other rights? Yes, a US citizen certainly has the right to leave the US, subject to the proper documentation applicable to his/her destination of course (but you don't have the automatic right of entry into another country).
However when re-entering the US, other than Immigration control, you are still subject to the laws of entry into the US......such as what you can bring in with you etc. Are you suggesting that US citizens/Permanent Residents should be immune to such laws/requirements, and have completely unrestricted entry?
BTW, that was a question and not any kind of statement.
Flown:F27/TU134/Viscount/Trident/BAC111/727/737/747/757/767/777/300/310/320/321/330/340/DC9/DC10/Dash8/Shorts330/BAe146
 
DUALRATED
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 4:05 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:17 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 24):
This is just silly. If they wanted to look at my laptop, I would say I don't think that is necessary.

You would then have a realy long and bad day.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 24):
It is like asking to read what book you are reading. The legalities of this are still under review.

That may be, but YOU and everything you have in your possession is subject to search period.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 24):
Also if you have 256-bit encryption, there is no way in hell they would be able to break it. Mac OS X has 256-bit encryption built into FileVault. There is no way the Feds or anybody else would be able to break it

 rotfl  Ok if you say so  rotfl 

Quoting Flighty (Reply 24):
As for some BP badge wearing individual, they are so low status that I wouldn't worry about it. At least not if your data is really important to you. Go prepared, but don't be afraid of the US border patrol.

First of all Border Patrol Agents DO NOT work airports, DO NOT stamp passports, And DO NOT check baggage . That would be Customs Officers. Furthermore Border Patrol Agents are Federal Agents, and are not low in status as you say, nor are Customs Officers.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 24):
Their powers are limited, particularly against US citizens. The notion that the US can inspect private data is not only logistically humorous, but legally humorous as well.

Once again you show your ignorance "THEY" can and WILL inspect anyone and anything at will.

Under the border search exception, the government may conduct routine searches of persons entering the
United States without probable cause, reasonable suspicion, or a warrant. See United States v. Montoya de Hernandez, 473 U.S. 531, 538 (1985).

Ninth Circuit Court Decides that US Customs and Border Patrol Agents Can Search & Seize Electronic Equipment Without Cause.

Read the above it, should settle this once and for all  alert   alert   alert 
AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:17 pm

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 36):
Are you suggesting that US citizens/Permanent Residents should be immune to such laws/requirements, and have completely unrestricted entry?

Not necessarily. What bothers me is that the courts have created exemptions to our rights. Where in the US Constitution is the footnote for the 4th and 5th amendments that makes exclusions for entering the US (serious question)?

If we lose some rights, why not others?

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that we eliminate border controls, etc.

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 36):
However when re-entering the US, other than Immigration control, you are still subject to the laws of entry into the US......such as what you can bring in with you etc

When you walk down the street you are subject to laws. When you enter another US state from another you are subject to importation restrictions. Why not say that these are reason to create another exemption to our rights?

[Edited 2008-07-19 16:19:03]
 
CXfirst
Posts: 2875
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:13 pm

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:18 pm

What exactly is the penalty for child pornography in the US???

-CXfirst
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:22 pm



Quoting CXfirst (Reply 39):
What exactly is the penalty for child pornography in the US???

Pretty bad. We even lock up, and label for life as sex-offenders, kids that take dirty pictures of themselves.
 
AirNZ
Posts: 544
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:03 pm

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:35 pm



Quoting Analog (Reply 37):
Not necessarily. What bothers me is that the courts have created exemptions to our rights. Where in the US Constitution is the footnote for the 4th and 5th amendments that makes exclusions for entering the US (serious question)?

As I said, I didn't quite understand what you were asking and, as I was interested in your viewpoint, I asked you for some clarification (I was neither agreeing or disagreeing with anything). May I ask what exemptions to your rights are you referring to, or what exclusions are there to re-entering the US?
Flown:F27/TU134/Viscount/Trident/BAC111/727/737/747/757/767/777/300/310/320/321/330/340/DC9/DC10/Dash8/Shorts330/BAe146
 
ua76heavy
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:37 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:45 pm

The bottom line is don't give them a reason to search your belongs to begin with. Don't be a smart-mouth, evade their questions, refuse to do something because you believe it's a violation of your rights (which in 99 out of 100 times it isn't), or even wear something that may offensive (yes, we all have rights, including the immigration and customs officers to scrutinize your documents and search your belongings).
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:47 pm



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 41):
May I ask what exemptions to your rights are you referring to, or what exclusions are there to re-entering the US?

Sure, the 4th amendment protection against unreasonable search & seizure. I'm not quite firm in my opinion, but I don't think it's reasonable for the government to be able to read every one of your documents just because you are entering the US.

The reasonableness of this is not explicit, so what is the basis for drawing the line? That's my real concern. For example, why are bits that I import away from my person (via the internet) subject to more protection from government searches than bits that I carry on my person?
 
AA7295
Topic Author
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:59 pm



Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 6):
Did you purchase your laptop in the US before you left to Australia?
If your laptop was made in Japan---for instance---you might have to pay duty on it each time you brought it back into the US, unless you could prove that you owned it before you left on your trip. Documents that fully describe the item---such as sales receipts, insurance policies, or jeweler's appraisals---are acceptable forms of proof.

My laptop is a Dell XPS 1530 that I bought here in Australia. It was manufactured in Malaysia, with the majority of components coming from China.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 8):
Don't worry about it, I have been out of the country a few times with my computer and stuff, they don't even ask or really look at it through customs. Just have to take it out of the case to go through standard airport security.

102IAHexpress,reply=10]You're flying from Australia. Which means that your point of entry will probably be the US west coast (more specifically the US 9th Circuit), this is key.

I will be flying into LAX. Will that be fine?? Last time I went to the USA, I flew into HNL and the time before that SFO and they were. My flight AA7295 (QF175) arrives at around 7am and I think it is one of the first international arrivals for the day. I'm neverous about LAX. I've heard so many bad things about them.
 
United1
Posts: 2827
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:06 am



Quoting AA7295 (Reply 44):
I will be flying into LAX. Will that be fine?? Last time I went to the USA, I flew into HNL and the time before that SFO and they were. My flight AA7295 (QF175) arrives at around 7am and I think it is one of the first international arrivals for the day. I'm neverous about LAX. I've heard so many bad things about them.

I really wouldn't loose any sleep over it, you should be fine. They aren't looking for ripped/downloaded music/movies on a laptop. LAX is no worse then SFO or HNL for US CBP.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
andahuailas
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:32 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:02 am

so, how is this thread connected to Aviation ?
mebbe you should look for a travel forum
leave us alone , personally i really don't care about your US customs paranoia
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5982
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:09 am



Quoting Analog (Reply 33):
Does a US citizen have the right to leave the US? If so, why should you have to sacrifice other rights to exercise that right?

All US citizens have a right to have their country protected by border controls and applicable law too. You of course have the right to travel, but like anyone you have to abide by the rules that your supposedly democratically elected government make for your country. That is part of the deal when you choose to cross ANY border.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:39 am



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 47):
All US citizens have a right to have their country protected by border controls and applicable law too. You of course have the right to travel, but like anyone you have to abide by the rules that your supposedly democratically elected government make for your country. That is part of the deal when you choose to cross ANY border.

When I cross the border from CT to NY I am not subject to search without cause. Why not? If the US can search me without any cause when entering NY from QC, where does it get this right? Sure, it may be reasonable, but others could say that border searches for contraband (illegal importation of liquor) between US states are reasonable.

I'm not talking about verification of citizenship; I'm assuming that the right to enter has already been verified.

Quoting Andahuailas (Reply 46):
leave us alone , personally i really don't care about your US customs paranoia

[Looks at flag]  Confused
Actually customs & immigration policies are very important in aviation. A large percentage of revenue passengers are between countries. Few industries are as directly involved in both immigration & customs enforcement (preboarding document checks, for example).
 
AA7295
Topic Author
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: US Customs - Laptop & USB Drive Searches..

Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:03 am



Quoting Analog (Reply 48):
Actually customs & immigration policies are very important in aviation. A large percentage of revenue passengers are between countries. Few industries are as directly involved in both immigration & customs enforcement (preboarding document checks, for example).

Completely Agree. This post should go back to Civil Aviation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CXB77L, kngkyle and 22 guests