semsem
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:06 am

The Five Safest Airlines

Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:01 am

According to a recent study the 5 safest airlines in order are:

Qantas
Cathay Pacific
ANA
EL AL
Finnair

Link below:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3671719,00.html
 
andaman
Posts: 2271
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RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:17 am

Three of the TOP 5 are from oneworld, not bad.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
seemyseems
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:42 am

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:25 am



Quoting Andaman (Reply 2):

Oh yeah!

hahaha, I just realised, well the only let down about Oneworld is BA...  Smile
seemyseems
 
TravellerPlus
Posts: 139
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RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:40 am

Statistics can be too easily manipulated. For example, Air Zimbabwe often appears on the most dangerous list due to 2 accidents that were both caused by deliberate shoot-downs by surface to air missles in the 1970's. Its small size means that it has a very high accident rate as a result. Conversely, in this survey El Al has been given a wonderful safety rating yet it has lost a cargo 747 that killed many on the ground and it had check-in passengers killed in terrorist activities at airports. I am not saying that El Al is unsafe, nor that Air Zimbabwe is safe, just that an understanding of how the statistics are complied and what is and isn't included is needed.

Seeing the rational of the survey- no passenger fatalities in the past 30 years- is too bias to formulate a meaningful result. Statistically it favours mid-size airlines from developed countries. Larger carriers that have operated far more flights, yet have suffered an accident, are no less safe than those on the list. Likewise excluding crew or ground fatalities is positively disrespectful to those who died in such circumstances.
What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
 
Viscount724
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Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:47 am

Quoting Semsem (Thread starter):
According to a recent study the 5 safest airlines in order are:

Qantas
Cathay Pacific
ANA
EL AL
Finnair

Those surveys are often misleading. As just one example, how can El Al be rated safer than Southwest, which probably carries as many passengers in one year as LY has in its entire history? Southwest has never had a passenger fatality in their 38 years of operations. If not mistaken their only accident involving a fatality was the overrun onto a city street at MDW a few years ago where the aircraft hit a car killing a passenger in the car.

And why only consider passenger flights? The 4 crew killed on the LY 747 freighter when it crashed into an apartment building after takeoff from AMS in 1992 (and the 39 people killed on the ground) shouldn't be considered as mere footnotes.

[Edited 2009-02-15 17:57:35]
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:50 am



Quoting Semsem (Thread starter):
Qantas
Cathay Pacific
ANA
EL AL
Finnair

I disagree, because that study is not done with a relative assessment, for example, how many flights has DL had throughout its history compared to the rest etc. So whats the percentage.
 
MHTripple7
Posts: 591
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:17 am

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:51 am

Quoting Semsem (Thread starter):
EL AL

Really? I thought their safety rating was being downgraded by the FAA for safety reasons....

Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 1):
While we're on the matter, I wonder who the 5 least safest airlines are?

Probably the black listed airlines.

I would like to know this as well.

[Edited 2009-02-15 17:52:49]
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18971
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:00 am

Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 7):
Quoting Semsem (Thread starter):
EL AL

Really? I thought their safety rating was being downgraded by the FAA for safety reasons....

I think you're confusing El Al with TLV airport which was downgraded by the FAA due to not meeting certain FAA standards. I don't think that had anyting to do with the airline.

[Edited 2009-02-15 18:29:09]
 
semsem
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:06 am

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:25 am

The FAA problem was with Ben Gurion Airport; not EL AL. Here is link:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1048359.html

The EL AL Cargo crash 15 years ago was not a passenger plane and was fault of Boeing.
Shootings at check-in counters has nothing to do with aircraft safety.

I have no clue how Aero magazine made their conclusions. Would be interesting to read.

Southwest may have had no crashes but they were involved in a maintenance scandal / fines a year ago.
 
Asturias
Posts: 1953
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:13 am

For one, I'd feel very safe on an El Al flight. I have great confidence in that airline!

asturias
Tonight we fly
 
B747forever
Posts: 12855
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:48 am



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
As just one example, how can El Al be rated safer than Southwest, which probably carries as many passengers in one year as LY has in its entire history? Southwest has never had a passenger fatality in their 38 years of operations.

Agree with you. That is a great example. I dont really think that this list is correct.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
fatmirjusufi
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:28 pm

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:21 am

I thought that BA would be listed on this Top 5.
DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
 
EI320
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:00 pm

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:38 pm

Not sure how accurate that list is. Take FR for example, they carried over 50m pax last year and have had no fatalities since they were founded. Why don't they deserve to be in that list? The same goes for many other airlines.
 
JRadier
Posts: 3943
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:30 pm



Quoting Semsem (Reply 8):
The EL AL Cargo crash 15 years ago was not a passenger plane and was fault of Boeing.

IIRC (I'm not able to find the accident report right now) the separation was due to faulty maintenance. During the parlementary inquiry it surfaced that LY pressed engineers to sign of parts that should have been replaced.

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...41992®=4X-AXG&airline=El+Al+Cargo
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
semsem
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:06 am

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:52 pm

This article is self explanatory that the crash was from Boeing negligence. Same for the similar China Airlines crash a few months before.

http://www.businessweek.com/archives/1993/b332654.arc.htm
 
Braniff747SP
Posts: 2565
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:56 am

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:54 pm

I am surprised that EL AL was not first...
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2382
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:13 pm



Quoting FatmirJusufi (Reply 11):
I thought that BA would be listed on this Top 5.

 Confused

Are we supposed to just overlook the fact that one of their planes recently nearly ended up killing all pax on board.....?
 
JRadier
Posts: 3943
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:34 pm



Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 16):


Are we supposed to just overlook the fact that one of their planes recently nearly ended up killing all pax on board.....?

Considering that isn't included in the scope of the study (fatalities in the last 30 years) it doesn't matter. Doesn't say that I agree with the study though....
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2382
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:21 pm



Quoting JRadier (Reply 17):
Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 16):
Are we supposed to just overlook the fact that one of their planes recently nearly ended up killing all pax on board.....?

Considering that isn't included in the scope of the study (fatalities in the last 30 years) it doesn't matter. Doesn't say that I agree with the study though....

Well, I have to admit that I only read the article wich comes up on clicking the link in the opening thread......all it says is

The companies that made it into the top five all have been flying for over three decades without any passenger aircraft accidents.

BA had one hell of a huge "passenger aircraft accident"...they had to write off the whole plane! The article says nothing about "fatalities".....of course, I do clarify that I have read nothing beyond the immediate article to the link in the OT....
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11415
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:40 pm



Quoting Semsem (Reply 14):
This article is self explanatory that the crash was from Boeing negligence. Same for the similar China Airlines crash a few months before.

It seems to me like picking and choosing accidents arbitrarily starts us down a really slippery slope. It's probably far easier just to look at fatalities.

Quoting JRadier (Reply 17):
(fatalities in the last 30 years)

I wonder how meaningful that statistic is. Take LA, for instance. They've had about 25 passenger fatalities in the last 30 years. Those were from 2 landing accidents that happened 15 or 20 years ago (one at CJC and one, IIRC, at PUQ). What does either of those accidents have to do with safety today? I'd argue nothing.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
semsem
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:06 am

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:37 pm

I agree, some things don't make sense. Would like to know how they made the conclusions.
 
vc10
Posts: 1341
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:13 am

RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:22 pm



Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 18):
The companies that made it into the top five all have been flying for over three decades without any passenger aircraft

Now you might not count the following Qantas incidents as an accident, but sometimes the difference between an incident and an accident is where the the incident happened

23 Sept 1999 at Bangkok, Qantas 747 over ran the runway

23 July 2000 at Rome, Qantas 747 gear collapsed during taxi

25 July 2008 near Manila, Qantas 747 had an explosive decompression during cruise

Thankfully there were no fatalities during these incidents, and they surely do not make Qantas an unsafe airline, and I would feel happy to fly with them anyday

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 16):
Are we supposed to just overlook the fact that one of their planes recently nearly ended up killing all pax on board.....?

Now was this British Airways fault, or did their crew avert by their actions due to perhaps good training, a worst incident. I believe that although the authorities have some idea as to what caused the incident they are not certain.

Your comments are like blaming BOAC for the Comet crashes. No, you can only blame an airline for accidents when some part of their organization can be proved to be at fault, not because of some design fault with the product they are flying

littlevc10
 
JER757
Posts: 165
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RE: The Five Safest Airlines

Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:07 am

Another example on how data can misrepresent situations is Concorde...

Until the AF crash in 2000, Concorde had no serious incidents and no fatalities. This in effect made it one of the safest airliners in the sky. After the crash, where 113 people died, Concorde statistically became one of the most unsafe airliners in the sky due to its low number of cycles in comparison to other a/c types.

Its interesting how in the space of a few hours something can change so quickly. If one of the airlines mentioned above had a fatal incident (a la CO in BUF) they would drop straight off the Top 5 list... is it really representative of how safe they are?

I don't think so...
Gale force fog... don't you love it?

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