Airliners.net

With Northwest Airlines (RIP) now a memory, I wonder what big legacy airline name will be the next to go? TWA, America West are two recent ones, and now NW. I can't hink of any off the top of my head because I think each one is too big to merge into another. But then again, that's what I thought about NW and look what happened.

[Edited 2010-02-08 19:34:04]

Continental or United, unfortunately the Continental name will probably be the one to go in that merger.

The only other choices left are:
American
Delta
US Airways
Alaska (some do, some do not consider them a legacy)

NWA isn't really dead. The name is dead but all of its employees and airplanes at the moment are flying under the name Delta. The "new" Delta is kind of like the 21st century Pan Am if you think about it.

Anyways, CO and UA have been rumored to be merging. I really hope it doesn't happen.

I'm willing to put money down on Continental being the next to go. If they merge with United, they're going to keep the United name guaranteed.

CONTINENTAL! (...or United, but I think United would be the name that will be kept in the event of a merger)

I'd put my money on US, they still haven't gotten over the HP merger, and they are trying to be a LCC with legacy costs.

Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 2): NWA isn't really dead.

They're just in a vegetative state, with the plug almost pulled...

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 5): I'd put my money on US, they still haven't gotten over the HP merger, and they are trying to be a LCC with legacy costs.

That's an interesting thought, especially since with all the name changes over the years I wouldn't be too surprised if customers don't have all that tight a brand loyalty to the "US Airways" moniker anyway.

US and CO are in jeopardy, US for its overall weakness as a carrier while CO would be dumped in favor of the UA name in the event of a UA/CO merger. AA is weak through its heavy debt load and high cost structures, but I think it will be safe to say that AA won't be going the way of the dodo anytime soon.

Cheers from BDL,   
DeltaGuy767

Although not legacy, it still remains to be seen what will ultimately happen with Frontier and Midwest.

Quote: Although not legacy, it still remains to be seen what will ultimately happen with Frontier and Midwest.

I think Republic Airlines has a nice ring to it.

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 10): I think Republic Airlines has a nice ring to it

I agree. In the case that America West became US Airways, the name Republic might speak better to a nationwide route system.

If, and it seems like a BIG IF, UA & CO were to merge, and United Airlines were to be the brand to be kept, have their been discussions about what happens to all the aircraft: like all heavy international aircraft be 3 classes with the new UA First, Business and Economy plus configuration? Same UA renovated interior colors? Channel 9!!!
Frankly if it had all that from UA and service and management and vision and food from Continental - I would fly NO other airline...ever! Except United needs to start serving their unique version of garlic focaccia bread again and the Eli's caramel cheesecake!

Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 2): NWA isn't really dead.

Unless I can book a flight on NWA website on a NWA owned plane, it really is dead. Sorry to break the news.
  

With all respect... why is it so obvious that in a CO - UA merger scenerio the UA brand remains standing? Is the UA brand so much widely known or what? I tought in case of a merger CO would be the financially stronger part and the better established.
For us ( I mean myself and others I chat with at the company) CO entering StarAlliance is a blessing, because it gives us the obvious choice of CO over UA when flying to the U.S. The way my experience goes is that when I book CO I KNOW I am going to get wonderful service, and if I book UA, well that is a lottery. Altough I have to agree with VC10er... a combination of UA interior and seats with CO management and on-board services would really be a winner combination.

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 14): With all respect... why is it so obvious that in a CO - UA merger scenerio the UA brand remains standing? Is the UA brand so much widely known or what? I tought in case of a merger CO would be the financially stronger part and the better established.

It's pretty certain that if such a merger did happen, CO would be the dominant company. From a brand perspective though, I would say it's slightly more likely that the United brand name would be kept. Either would be possible though.

Quoting SASD209 (Reply 13): Unless I can book a flight on NWA website on a NWA owned plane, it really is dead. Sorry to break the news.

The NWA name is dead but all of the NWA "stuff" is now flying under the name Delta. I consider dead to be an airline like Skybus or Eastern.

I think that UA is a much more famous brand internationally than CO. Although maybe for the wrong reasons sometimes! But, by all surveys UA is being viewed as a "come-back" brand. Still a long way to go to repair the damage done over the past 10 years. I work for a branding company and UA's brand health scores are improving. Recently some German clients of mine were forced to fly UA instead of LH and at first were dreading it, but after their ride in F and C on a 767 they were blown away. They couldn't stop talking about it. One woman said she's switching for good because of the new C seat. I told her to make sure she's on a 767 or 747 before booking for the next year or so. A trip on a 777 in C is still like the stone age.
But I think once the 777 fleet is converted so will peoples opinions.

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 16): I consider dead to be an airline like Skybus or Eastern.

Eastern "stuff" is being flown by others.

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 1): Continental or United, unfortunately the Continental name will probably be the one to go in that merger.

Most likely, but hey, I can still hope and dream.

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 1): Delta

I have no idea what theyre debt load is now after the merger, but out of all the choices to pick, I'd pick this one to go under first.

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 1): Alaska (some do, some do not consider them a legacy)

They most indeed are a legacy.

Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 2): Anyways, CO and UA have been rumored to be merging. I really hope it doesn't happen.

Amen to that...

Quoting JMackey (Reply 11): I agree. In the case that America West became US Airways, the name Republic might speak better to a nationwide route system.

Well since it was America West that bought US, I am hoping the same might happen with CO and UA, retinaing everything CO.

Quoting SASD209 (Reply 13): Unless I can book a flight on NWA website on a NWA owned plane, it really is dead.

My thoughts exactly. NWA is no more.

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 14): With all respect... why is it so obvious that in a CO - UA merger scenerio the UA brand remains standing? Is the UA brand so much widely known or what? I tought in case of a merger CO would be the financially stronger part and the better established. For us ( I mean myself and others I chat with at the company) CO entering StarAlliance is a blessing, because it gives us the obvious choice of CO over UA when flying to the U.S. The way my experience goes is that when I book CO I KNOW I am going to get wonderful service, and if I book UA, well that is a lottery. Altough I have to agree with VC10er... a combination of UA interior and seats with CO management and on-board services would really be a winner combination.

As I said above, I hope it ends up being CO as the purchaser, then using CO's managerial talent and reputation, as well as service levels and ditching ANYTHING that had to do with United.

Quoting JMackey (Reply 11): In the case that America West became US Airways, the name Republic might speak better to a nationwide route system.

The problem with that logic is that, like the America West name, the Republic name is not as well known nationwide as Frontier is. Hence why HP went to the US branding solely because of that, IIRC.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 20): The problem with that logic is that, like the America West name, the Republic name is not as well known nationwide as Frontier is.

I still think of Herman the Duck when Republic is mentioned...      

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 21): I still think of Herman the Duck when Republic is mentioned...

Remember, there is more people out there than A.net. Most of those people have never heard of RW.

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 14): With all respect... why is it so obvious that in a CO - UA merger scenerio the UA brand remains standing?

Additionally, with all due respect, why is everyone thinking that UA and CO are going to merge AT ALL; especially given the current Administration's views/opinions regarding mergers?

Switching alliances (CO from Skyteam to Star) is one thing; a full-blown merger is another.

Keep in mind that the DOJ (under a Republican Administration, mind you) flat out REJECTED UA's proposal to merge w/US (East) several years ago; and US was, and still is post-HP merger, a smaller carrier than CO.

Back to the topic at hand:

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 5): I'd put my money on US, they still haven't gotten over the HP merger, and they are trying to be a LCC with legacy costs.

   That would be my guess as well; no offense to those who work for US out there. To add, US would probably go by way of Chapter 7 en lieu of merging with anyone else.

I think the most probable would be US Airways or Continental/United. These 3 airlines seem the most likely to be merger candidates meaning their name would go. I would expect CO to merge with UA and most likely keep the UA name but with CO management (which would actually be nice). US Airways could be bought out by another airline (I don't think they would go under) but i'm not sure who would buy them out.

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 5): I'd put my money on US, they still haven't gotten over the HP merger, and they are trying to be a LCC with legacy costs.

Sadly, I must agree. The finances do not look pretty.

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 14): Is the UA brand so much widely known or what?

   CO is known for better service, but UA has been a far larger carrier for a long time.


Lightsaber

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 25): CO is known for better service, but UA has been a far larger carrier for a long time.

But what's better? The service or the larger carrier? I guess that's more of an opinion than anything else. You can't please everyone.

Is UA so much better known than CO? Most people I know say CO is known as being better than UA... so why not keep the Continental name? It would be really weird to see IAH and EWR without all those globes...  

-J.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 20): In the case that America West became US Airways, the name Republic might speak better to a nationwide route system. The problem with that logic is that, like the America West name, the Republic name is not as well known nationwide as Frontier is. Hence why HP went to the US branding solely because of that, IIRC.

And Midwest is more highly regarded. If you believe all those travel magazine rankings.

I notice everyone is talking about US Legacy carriers. My money is on BA which would come as a huge shock to everyone. How long can they continue performing they way they are, especially now with Cabin Crew woes as well?

over in the UK I think CO is better known as it flies from at least 6 airports whereas UA only flies out of LHR

Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 29): I notice everyone is talking about US Legacy carriers.

You remarked it just before I did.
Apart from the US legacy airlines, we can think of SAS, CSA, Finnair as candidates.

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 28): And Midwest is more highly regarded. If you believe all those travel magazine rankings.

With all due respect, Midwest is more highly regarded than what? Or whom?

Midwest is a shadow of its former self. Years ago EVERY seat was a 'Signature" seat, hot meals were complimentary and not "buy on board" (although the same can be said of most other "legacy" carriers, save for CO), and meals were served on china. They were also (and by all accounts, still) famous for their "baked on board" chocolate chip cookies, although a review of any mid- to long-range First Class trip reports here on A*net will reveal many other airlines doing the same thing. I don't fault Midwest for doing what they had to do to try and survive. And really, "Midwest" isn't really "Midwest" anymore, are they? For some time they had been "outsourcing" flights to Republic and isn't Republic now the primary shareholder? Or maybe it's "Republic -- doing business as Midwest Airlines"?

My fellow members should feel free to correct any errors in my response to the posting.

Everyone, fly safe.

Mike
(mtaabq)

Quoting kingFriday013 (Reply 27): Is UA so much better known than CO? Most people I know say CO is known as being better than UA... so why not keep the Continental name?

Shorter names are better in my opinion. And in Eruope, the first thing many people think of when they hear the name Continental is the German tire company. Same thing as an airline in the U.S. named Goodyear.

UA also has a much stronger identity in Asia and the South Pacific due to their acquisition of Pan Am's Pacific routes in 1986. Asia will be be the most profitable and fastest-growing international market for.many years.

[Edited 2010-02-09 14:16:25]

I imagine US Airways will continue to shrink. What's left will be bought (not merged) by a larger airline.

Quoting mtaabq (Reply 32): Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 28): And Midwest is more highly regarded. If you believe all those travel magazine rankings. With all due respect, Midwest is more highly regarded than what? Or whom?

Higher than any legacy, #3 in N. America for 2009.
http://www.concierge.com/tools/trave...wards/readerschoice/transportation

What's to say that just because an airline is bigger it should be the one that is kept? Alot of people (read as paying passengers) continually have issues with United. I've only flown them a handfull of times, but I've had trouble every time I have.

The many many CRJ's they try to fly everywhere just kills me (I am a bigger guy)

I hope Continental and United never have any sort of relationship. Continental has built up their service and reputation so much and they really have a lot going for them, where as United hasn't been up to standards in my opinion.

Who knows what will be in US Airway's future.

For what reasons would the United name survive over the Continental name? IMO Continental has a much better product.

Quoting Packcheer (Reply 36): What's to say that just because an airline is bigger it should be the one that is kept? Alot of people (read as paying passengers) continually have issues with United. I've only flown them a handfull of times, but I've had trouble every time I have. The many many CRJ's they try to fly everywhere just kills me (I am a bigger guy)

The RJ craze has gone insane. RJs were meant to provide service from small cities to airline hubs within the same region. Thus the name regional jet. Regional jets were never meant to replace mainline flights. Both IAD and ATL are huge cities. Yet I can't book a mainline UA flight from ATL (the worlds busiest airport) to IAD. UA replaced its entire 737 fleet by RJs...

I know I'm going on a rant about RJ's but UA is well on its way to replacing its domestic operations entirely be regionals.

I as thinking of either UA or CO, but those talks have been going on for a while, and recently nothing seems to be happening. I think that US will be the next one, I believe another, larger airline will take them over for their routes. Possibly WN or AA? WN is the strongest I think, but I guess that they are not considered a legacy carrier.

laxboeingman

Quoting Packcheer (Reply 36): What's to say that just because an airline is bigger it should be the one that is kept?

There is definitely merit to that. ValuJet : AirTran name.

I think even if ValuJet 592 never had that crash, the ValuJet name would have given the sense that its very economy on par with USA3000 as a brand. However in context of Continental vs. United, I think the United name is better name to keep, even if one can say Continental has better service and reputation currently.

I'm not so sure about the name "Republic". The name might elicit a unknown foreign carrier association. Like it belongs to People's Republic of China. In the US, we used the word in the pledge of allegiance, but not really used as much as China uses it.

[Edited 2010-02-09 18:18:38]