AirCalSNA
Topic Author
Posts: 314
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Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:08 pm

Hi folks ... I wondered if anyone knew of a website where one could search for flights within the USA that does not include flights on regional carriers. I avoid the latter due to the various "incidents" over the past few years. Thanks.
 
m11stephen
Posts: 372
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:12 pm

Avoiding regional carriers because of a few past incidents is ridiculous. Regional carriers are far from unsafe...

[Edited 2010-03-28 14:27:46]
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:19 pm

I'd like to go on a cruise where the ship has never had norovirus.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
Italianflyer
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:21 pm

go to southwest.com   
 
PGNCS
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:22 pm

www.kayak.com

I don't avoid them, but the site does allow that as a sorting preference.
 
AirCalSNA
Topic Author
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:28 pm

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 4):
I don't avoid them, but the site does allow that as a sorting preference.

Thanks!
 
JBAirwaysFan
Posts: 542
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:17 am

Southwest, JetBlue, and know the flight numbers that are used for RJ flights for other airlines.
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
jolau1701
Posts: 100
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:17 am

Regional flights and Codeshares are normally higher in number than the Mainline flights and have an "Operated by (________)" on the flight listing.
 
AirCalSNA
Topic Author
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:19 am

Quoting jolau1701 (Reply 7):
Quoting jolau1701 (Reply 7):
Regional flights and Codeshares are normally higher in number than the Mainline flights and have an "Operated by (________)" on the flight listing.

Thanks. The search problem comes up with a site like Orbitz, where they lump all the mainline and regional flights together ... making it a chore to sort out the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.
 
durangomac
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:06 am

Quoting AirCalSNA (Thread starter):
Hi folks ... I wondered if anyone knew of a website where one could search for flights within the USA that does not include flights on regional carriers. I avoid the latter due to the various "incidents" over the past few years. Thanks.

I will tell you that as an regional airline employee this is insulting because I think the logic if flawed. Yes there have been issues but not just to regionals. Look at CO leaving the runway in DEN, AA not stopping in time at KIN, NW over flying MSP, DL landing on a taxiway in ATL. KL taking off from a taxiway in AMS, BA having enigne problems on landing in LHR, US landing on the Hudson after hitting a flock of birds, all with in the last two years and there are probably a lot more that I'm forgetting. I do realize that no one has died in these incidents but many of these could also have turned out just as badly as they turned out as good as they did.

So following this logic, I should avoid CO, AA, DL/NW & KL, BA, US.

I'm not trying to insult anyone so please don't take it that way. All I'm trying to do is show that this logic is flawed and shouldn't be the reason anyone avoids regionals. Looking at number of take offs and landings, which are the most dangerious phases of flight, regionals have more cycles than majors and regionals have many more cyles per incident than majors the last time I checked the numbers.

If you said that you try to avoid regionals because you don't like the aircraft, I'm prefectly happy on letting you argue that point.
 
AirCalSNA
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:54 pm

Did not mean to be insulting to anyone. I was thinking especially about the stall accident in Buffalo, NY, about a year ago, and the apparent blatant pilot errors and breaches of protocol that led to that crash. In contrast, if I recall correctly some of the incidents you cite involved pilots handling well a difficult situation. I just don't want to have to worry about the ability or training of the pilots when I fly, which I would do if I were on an regional carrier.
 
ytib
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:01 pm

Quoting DurangoMac (Reply 9):
US landing on the Hudson after hitting a flock of birds,

Adding this to your argument about how safe regionals are over other carriers probably hurts more than it helps.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:06 pm

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 10):
I just don't want to have to worry about the ability or training of the pilots when I fly, which I would do if I were on an regional carrier.

Let me get this right: You don't want to fly on any regional, because of one regional didn't want to bother getting rid of a pilot that no other regional would dare hire?
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
as739x
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:09 pm

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 10):

Cause a major airline has never had a crash due to pilot error! Interesting way to search. May I suggest Amtrak!!!!!!
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
AirCalSNA
Topic Author
Posts: 314
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:11 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 12):
Let me get this right: You don't want to fly on any regional, because of one regional didn't want to bother getting rid of a pilot that no other regional would dare hire?

Regional airlines have lower entry requirements for and pay their pilots less, right?
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:18 pm

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 14):
Regional airlines have lower entry requirements for and pay their pilots less, right?

Some lower than others, yes, but many have very high requirements, and very high standards. However, what the pilots are paid is irrelevant. If you want to use the Colgan F/O's pay as an argument that they are poorly, you'd have a very poor argument. All first-year emplyees, regardless of what they do, are paid poorly. It's called "paying your dues."
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
planespotting
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:39 pm

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 14):

Regional airlines have lower entry requirements for and pay their pilots less, right?

True, but the vast majority of regional airline pilots have been on the job for more than a few months. I was talking to a friend of mine at Eagle (he's an F/O based out of ORD) this weekend, and he's racked up 3100 hours in the ERJs since he was hired back in 2006. That's an average of 885 hours per year (considering he was hired roughly 3.5 years ago). That brings him to more than 4,000 hours of flight time, the vast majority of it in type. And he's just a first officer. A Southwest Airlines first year F/O need only have 1000 hours of turbine PIC time, and many of their new hires are military fighter types who aren't used to operating in a two-man crew environment.

Am I generalizing with that statement? Of course I am. But so are you when you imply that RJ pilots are more dangerous. Also, the military has changed a lot of how it trains its pilots, especially focusing on Crew Resource Management ... just like civilian-trained pilots!

The point is, RJ pilots do fly more legs for less pay with relatively less experience than mainline pilots. However, that's also a benefit ... they're in a very intense new hire training class, thrown into the fire for 40 hours with a very experienced line check airman during their initial operating experience (IOE), and come out of that as a qualified F/O who's competent enough to fly with any Captain in the airline (who are all ATPs with thousands of hours of experience ... just like mainline pilots).

Are there exceptions to the rule? Of course ... but they exist in mainline ops too.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
jolau1701
Posts: 100
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:40 pm

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 10):



Did not mean to be insulting to anyone. I was thinking especially about the stall accident in Buffalo, NY, about a year ago, and the apparent blatant pilot errors and breaches of protocol that led to that crash. In contrast, if I recall correctly some of the incidents you cite involved pilots handling well a difficult situation. I just don't want to have to worry about the ability or training of the pilots when I fly, which I would do if I were on an regional carrier.

Yeah, I remember an article somewhere comparing these two with Charles Sullenberger. But you do realize they have to start from SOMEWHERE.
 
m11stephen
Posts: 372
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:16 am

RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:42 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 13):
Cause a major airline has never had a crash due to pilot error! Interesting way to search. May I suggest Amtrak!!!!!!

Bad idea, Amtrak is more dangerous then a regional...  

There have been more accidents at mainline carriers caused by pilot error then there have been accidents at regionals caused by pilot error. The pilots of Eastern 401 were distracted by a burnt out light bulb and that led to the deaths of 101 passengers. Those were highly experienced pilots flying a huge, mainline aircraft. Statements such as, "Regionals are more dangerous then mainline carriers" are completely ignorant. 747s have crashed, should 747s be considered dangerous too? A330s have crashed, A320s have crashed, 737s have crashed, etc.

It amazes me that people get in their cars, don't wear seat belts, and drive like maniacs yet get nervous about flying on a regional airline. If I could, I would fly everywhere I go everyday on a regional airplane.
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
 
SLUAviator
Posts: 292
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:49 pm

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 10):
I was thinking especially about the stall accident in Buffalo, NY, about a year ago, and the apparent blatant pilot errors and breaches of protocol that led to that crash.

AA dragging wing tips in Austin and Charlotte in addition to Kingston back in December doesn't concern you? Those are incidents that happened with MAINLINE pilots, so nothing they did can possibly be outside of SOP, right? I guess you need to avoid American now as well because of incidents that may have come from "blatant pilot errors."

Continuing with the subject of errors and how you want to avoid them, perhaps you should not fly on United, Southwest, US Airways and American. All of the previous airlines have had maintenance errors that have resulted in fines from the feds.

As a regional airline pilot, I'm insulted that you would simply write us all off as unsafe. I and the guys I work with are proud of what we do, we are professionals. My fellow crew members and I do our absolute best to get our passengers where they need to go safely each and every time. People trust us to make the right decision, and for the most part we do a damn good job of it. I don't mean to insult you, but it is people like you that buy into the uninformed sensationalized crap on TV that gave regionals a bad name in the first place. American dragging wingtips is not as dramatic as the FO who does not make any money commuting across the country to work so the story is bumped from the headline. You don't take note. Just remember that one half of the airline flights in the US are operated by regionals.

Next time you get on my RJ, I'll welcome you on board and you should trust that I am there taking my job seriously. I won't even hold it against you if you don't trust me because I fly an RJ. Ultimately, I'm in it with you, so you can be damn sure I am doing the best I can.
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
 
ual747den
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:29 pm

RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:55 pm

Quoting planespotting (Reply 16):
who are all ATPs with thousands of hours of experience ... just like mainline pilots

We both know that this is not true for the most part. Mainline pilots have much more experience than regional pilots and that is just how this industry works. Regional pilots don't get paid very well but they have to do it because they need to get the hours and work their way up to being qualified for the mainline job.
In my experience at the airlines all pilots work as hard as they can to make sure that flight is safe, they are on the plane too! While they all want to be safe I have most definitely found that the younger pilots at the regionals tend to be more immature and make more bad decisions than the mainline pilots, but I have only experienced that on the ground, never in the air.

So I guess while I wouldn't worry about flying on a regional airline I could see where you or someone else might.
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
planespotting
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:14 pm

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 20):

We both know that this is not true for the most part.

You were referring to this sentence of mine from earlier:

Quoting planespotting:

... fly with any Captain in the airline (who are all ATPs with thousands of hours of experience ... just like mainline pilots).

What part about that statement is untrue "for the most part"? In the United States of America, anyone acting as the Pilot in Command of an aircraft with a max gross weight of more than 12,500 lbs and/or over 9 passenger seats must have an Airline Transport Pilot rating. If they don't, they are violating a very strict FAR, with significant consequences for both said faux PIC and operator.

End of story.

Regional airlines, all of which fly aircraft weighing more than 12,500 lbs and carry more than 9 passengers, fall into this category. Therefore, all regional airline captains have their ATP. There are no "ifs," "ands," "buts," or "for the most parts" about it.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
bennett123
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:26 pm

Perhaps he was suggesting that RJ Captain's have on average less hours.

You could of course argue that you should look at cycles not hours.
 
PGNCS
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:27 pm

Let me start by saying that I commuted on an RJ today, and have never avoided flying on one that was going where I needed to go, and specifically said that I don't avoid them in my initial response about kayak.com. But...

Quoting DurangoMac (Reply 9):
I will tell you that as an regional airline employee this is insulting because I think the logic if flawed.

Don't be insulted. It's his money and he can spend it however he wants. If he doesn't want to fly on an RJ, that's his perogative. I fly an MD-80 and people whine they don't want to get on my airplane because it doesn't have AVOD or is too noisy in the back. It's their right to book on another flight.

Quoting planespotting (Reply 16):
Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 14):

Regional airlines have lower entry requirements for and pay their pilots less, right?

True, but the vast majority of regional airline pilots have been on the job for more than a few months. I was talking to a friend of mine at Eagle (he's an F/O based out of ORD) this weekend, and he's racked up 3100 hours in the ERJs since he was hired back in 2006. That's an average of 885 hours per year (considering he was hired roughly 3.5 years ago). That brings him to more than 4,000 hours of flight time, the vast majority of it in type.

Great. Your friend has 3100 hours in the ERJ; how many did he have before he went to work at Eagle; apparently around 900, which is far lower than any major would touch him with. His 4,000 hours ot total time and 3,100 of turbine multi will help him if he ever interviews with a major: he would have assuredly never been called for an interview with 900 hours total in this day and age. That's the issue that is seemingly bothering the OP. It's an issue of the Least Common Denominator, and many regional pilots were hired with much less time than your friend. Mainline pilots are likely to be more experienced. Nobody including the OP was claiming regional pilots didn't meet the minimum experience requirements to fly in their seat.

Quoting planespotting (Reply 16):
The point is, RJ pilots do fly more legs for less pay with relatively less experience than mainline pilots. However, that's also a benefit ... they're in a very intense new hire training class, thrown into the fire for 40 hours with a very experienced line check airman during their initial operating experience (IOE), and come out of that as a qualified F/O who's competent enough to fly with any Captain in the airline (who are all ATPs with thousands of hours of experience ... just like mainline pilots).

How is that a benefit? Mainline pilots also go through initial school and OE when they change seats, and on average have much more experience when they start than regional pilots do.

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 22):
Perhaps he was suggesting that RJ Captain's have on average less hours.

That's what I got out of it, and on average it's likely to be true.

Bottom line: if you want to fly on RJ's, fly on them; if you don't want to fly on RJ's, don't. It's a free country.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Searching For Flights NOT On Regional Carriers

Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:03 am

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 18):
There have been more accidents at mainline carriers caused by pilot error then there have been accidents at regionals caused by pilot error. The pilots of Eastern 401 were distracted by a burnt out light bulb and that led to the deaths of 101 passengers. Those were highly experienced pilots flying a huge, mainline aircraft. Statements such as, "Regionals are more dangerous then mainline carriers" are completely ignorant. 747s have crashed, should 747s be considered dangerous too? A330s have crashed, A320s have crashed, 737s have crashed, etc.

My agreement or disagreement to the OP's opinion aside, your argument does not take into account that "Regionals" have not been flying as long as "Mainline". I don't profess to know the answer, but your statement is invalid without a proper comparison of "Incidents with Mainline" versus "Incidents with Regionals" starting at the time "regional" flying reached the point that it is at today. Your analysis would also have to account for the area of operation (country/region of the world). To include say, African airlines with the operation of western airlines (US & Europe) and Asian Airlines with far better safety records and standards would be ridiculous.

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 23):
Let me start by saying that I commuted on an RJ today, and have never avoided flying on one that was going where I needed to go, and specifically said that I don't avoid them in my initial response about kayak.com. But...

And let's consider that Kayak and whoever else put that option in there because most people avoid RJs for comfort reasons, not "safety" or "lack of pilot experience" reasons.

[Edited 2010-03-29 17:07:12]
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