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auroralives
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YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:41 pm

I know the topic of surcharges has been beaten to death, but I had to post this as I believe it is now taken to a new level:

Front and center on ACs website... Vancouver to Mexico City $99 !

So I picked 2 random Tuesdays in March... 15th out.. 22nd back. Both showed up with the $99 fare.. non-stop there and connecting in LAX coming back.

Get ready for it... final total: $546.80 !!

How?

Departing Flight - Tango Plus ----$98.99
Returning Flight - Tango Plus ----$98.99
Surcharges NAV ----$30.02
Fuel Surcharge ----$210.00
Canada Airport Improvement Fee ----$15.00
U.S Agriculture Fee XA ----$ 5.00
Air Travellers Security Charge ----$25.91
U.S Passenger Facility Charge ----$4.50
Mexico Intl. Arpt. Departure Tax ----$25.57
Canada Harmonized Sales Tax ----$ 1.80
Mexico Tourism Tax UK ----$21.53
September 11 Security Fee AY ----$2.50
U.S.A Immigration User Fee XY ----$6.99
Total (before options) ----$546.80


Can "free" flights be far behind???  
 
cbphoto
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:49 pm

HAHA...that is hilarious! I hate flying out of YVR, its far cheaper to head to Seattle or something and catch a flight out of their. It will save at least a 100+ in taxes, IF you can find a cheaper fare. It is ridiculous though to think that a 199 airfare could then be followed by another 300 odd in taxes! Gotta love it!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
smoot4208
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:55 pm

Quoting auroralives (Thread starter):
Get ready for it... final total: $546.80 !!

How?

Departing Flight - Tango Plus ----$98.99
Returning Flight - Tango Plus ----$98.99
Surcharges NAV ----$30.02
Fuel Surcharge ----$210.00
Canada Airport Improvement Fee ----$15.00
U.S Agriculture Fee XA ----$ 5.00
Air Travellers Security Charge ----$25.91
U.S Passenger Facility Charge ----$4.50
Mexico Intl. Arpt. Departure Tax ----$25.57
Canada Harmonized Sales Tax ----$ 1.80
Mexico Tourism Tax UK ----$21.53
September 11 Security Fee AY ----$2.50
U.S.A Immigration User Fee XY ----$6.99
Total (before options) ----$546.80


All of those except the fuel surcharge are, that does taxes; that the airline has to put in your ticket. As for the fuel surcharge, it does seem a little high, but oil is up 20% from what it was in Feb 2010. The bottom line however you look at it, the customer has to start paying the actual price
 
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auroralives
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:51 pm

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 2):
As for the fuel surcharge, it does seem a little high, but oil is up 20% from what it was in Feb 2010.

I've said it before... so I'll say it again here:

Fuel Capacity of A319 - 6303 usg
Range of A319 - 2760 miles
YVR - MEX - 2454 miles

For arguments sake... this trip takes a full load of gas...

6300 * $2.68 gallon for Jet-A is $16,884 for a full tank of fuel

This configuration of A319 seats 120 pax.

120 * $105 fuel surcharge = $12,500.

This is NOT a surcharge. The passengers are paying 75% of the entire cost of the fuel. This only makes sense if AC is operating under the assumption oil will forever be priced at $25/barrel.
 
klm77
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:35 pm

This reminds me of when AC also had on their front page YYZ-LHR one way for $199. So I did the same thing as you, one way 199 and the other 199. That's 398 total right? Seems like a steal....plus 436 taxes... the taxes are more then the ticket!
 
YYZRWY23
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:40 pm

Quoting auroralives (Thread starter):
Surcharges NAV ----$30.02

Used to be a crown corp, now private. Probably cheapre than what was paid to government employees.

Quoting auroralives (Thread starter):
Canada Airport Improvement Fee

Charged by Transport Canada I think, but I could very well be wrong.

Quoting auroralives (Thread starter):
U.S Agriculture Fee XA ----$ 5.00

US Government.

Quoting auroralives (Thread starter):
Air Travellers Security Charge

Canadian Government

Quoting auroralives (Thread starter):
U.S Passenger Facility Charge ----$4.50

US Government.

Quoting auroralives (Thread starter):
Mexico Intl. Arpt. Departure Tax ----$25.57

Mexican Government

Quoting auroralives (Thread starter):
Mexico Tourism Tax UK

Mexican Government

Quoting auroralives (Thread starter):
September 11 Security Fee AY

US Government (?)

Quoting auroralives (Thread starter):
U.S.A Immigration User Fee XY

US Government

My recommendation: pull out the pen and paper and start writing letters to these three governments.

Don't put this on AC, as you can see that they are willing and able to charge a low fare to the consumer for this service. It is proven in the $1.80 (or should it be $18.00....either way) HST. You could knock about $20.00 of your fare by not connecting in the US on the way back. Point is, airports are expensive to run, and the money has to come from somewhere. I think it is more fair to charge those using those facilities than those who don't. And, seeing as I am on this website, I am clearly not a non-traveler. I pay enough of these fees yearly, but being near YYZ, BUF is used when available and feasible.

YYZRWY23
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Viscount724
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:25 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 1):
It is ridiculous though to think that a 199 airfare could then be followed by another 300 odd in taxes!

Note that $210 is a fuel surcharge. That's not a tax. It goes to the airline and is really part of the fare.

I don't know why Canada still permits airlines to advertise fares like that. In Europe it's a legal requirement that all advertised fares include all taxes/fees/surcharges. The only exceptions are optional charges (e.g. for carriers that charge for checked baggage etc) and for usually small fees for payment by credit card. Passengers only care about the grand total.
 
keagkid101
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:32 am

Ridiculous! All those taxes and fees! I'd rather drive than than pay that lol
 
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auroralives
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:46 am

Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 5):
Point is, airports are expensive to run, and the money has to come from somewhere. I think it is more fair to charge those using those facilities than those who don't.

No dispute whatsoever. The people who use should pay for the services / facilities.

The problem here is an "advertised" price, and the price one eventually pays. The cost of doing business should be rolled into the final advertised price.

Imagine you went to Walmart and picked up a pair of pants with the sticker price of $1.25. You then went to the casher who said:

Cashier fee ---$0.25
Warehouse storage fee ----$0.50
Store Management fee ----$2.00
Transport from harbour to store -----$2.50
Fuel surcharge on local transport ----$1.25
Overseas shipping fee ----$1.68
Transport ship crew feeding fee ----$0.89
Upper management performance bonus fee ----$4.55
Local and regional taxes ---$1.10
Accountant to figure out taxes fee ---$1.30
etc, etc etc...

You get my drift...

Soon it will be $0.01 airfares, with all the rest in fees  
 
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longhauler
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:30 am

Quoting auroralives (Thread starter):
Get ready for it... final total: $546.80 !!


Not a bad deal really, for about 5000 miles of travel.
Comparable fares, all taxes/fees in for SEA-MEX-SEA is about $410.00.

However, I agree fully with the above sentiment. And, if I am not mistaken, there are new consumer rules and protocols being enacted in Canada that will no longer allow such pricing. It's about time.

Quoting auroralives (Reply 3):
This is NOT a surcharge. The passengers are paying 75% of the entire cost of the fuel. This only makes sense if AC is operating under the assumption oil will forever be priced at $25/barrel.

Indeed it is not, however, I am going to have to imagine that it would not be Politically Correct to call it what it really is ... an "It's about time you actually paid for what it costs to fly you from A to B" charge.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
YYZRWY23
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:16 am

Quoting auroralives (Reply 8):
You get my drift...

I very well understand your view on this, and the point you are trying to make. But, in my opinion, this is fair marketing technique. It gets people onto the airline's site, and gets them looking at flights. Who knows, maybe someone sees that fare, and then sees it is really high, but then they go to the "Vacations" link on the airline site, and book a full vacation (usually cheaper then a la carte). Consumers aren't being mis-leaded, as it does says "plus taxes, surcharges, fees...etc).

The reason Wal Mart doesn't do that is because of the type of establishment it is. Wal Mart, known for its low prices, attracts foot traffic into the store just on brand image alone. Even though they do advertise, people wanting the cheapest option will still try Wal Mart first. So they do not need to advertise the actual cost, then tack on fees. Airlines don't have a "store front", so they need to get people onto their sites in the first place.

But I think this is a "agree to disagree" situation.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 9):
And, if I am not mistaken, there are new consumer rules and protocols being enacted in Canada that will no longer allow such pricing.

I believe this is correct. While I can't find a source, I have heard of this for a while.

YYZRWY23
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ACDC8
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:42 am

Quoting auroralives (Thread starter):
Departing Flight - Tango Plus ----$98.99
Returning Flight - Tango Plus ----$98.99
Surcharges NAV ----$30.02
Fuel Surcharge ----$210.00
Canada Airport Improvement Fee ----$15.00
U.S Agriculture Fee XA ----$ 5.00
Air Travellers Security Charge ----$25.91
U.S Passenger Facility Charge ----$4.50
Mexico Intl. Arpt. Departure Tax ----$25.57
Canada Harmonized Sales Tax ----$ 1.80
Mexico Tourism Tax UK ----$21.53
September 11 Security Fee AY ----$2.50
U.S.A Immigration User Fee XY ----$6.99
Total (before options) ----$546.80

God, I love the advertising practices in this country  
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VonRichtofen
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:37 am

What pisses me off more than deceptive advertising is how bogus most of those taxes are. US Agriculture fee? What does somebody flying to or via the US have to do with their agriculture industry??

And don't get me started on the BS "security" taxes. Totally taking advantage of fear to milk the population even more. Call it "sept 11 tak" and nobody will question it!


What nonsense.
 
Viscount724
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:38 am

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 12):
US Agriculture fee? What does somebody flying to or via the US have to do with their agriculture industry??

Certain food products can't be brought into the US. The fee covers the cost of such things as dogs trained to find such products hidden in luggage.
 
blueflyer
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:59 am

Quoting auroralives (Reply 3):
This is NOT a surcharge. The passengers are paying 75% of the entire cost of the fuel.

AC calls it a surcharge, so why wouldn't we? The passengers are paying 100% of the cost of fuel, what is more accurate is that 25% of the cost of fuel is included in the initial fare, and the rest in a fuel surcharge, for the purpose of artificially lowering the initial ticket price.

Based on your excellent numbers, the fuel surcharge pays $12,500 out of an estimated total of $16,884 in fuel (probably less with rebates, etc), which leaves $4,384 as the estimated value of a full tank before surcharge. That means AC figured a cost of $0.70/gallon when pricing that particular trip! Look back two years and you'll see that at no time was the spot price less than twice that cost!

I don't think anyone can make the case honestly that AC (1) hasn't looked at its operating costs in two years .They know that they should plan on spending at least $8,600 in fuel for this trip, but that would mean adding $36 to the initial ticket cost per passenger (assuming a full plane) and that attractive $99 fare becomes a somewhat less appealing $135.

Better to continue advertising a $99 price, to vastly and purposely underestimate the cost of fuel necessary for the trip and to make up the difference through a fuel surcharge.

In my book, that is false, dishonest advertising, but I don't see it go away until merchants are either forbidden from advertising prices that are below cost, or are prevented from adding on unavoidable charges and fees that are not government-mandated to the price of a ticket.

(1) and pretty much any other carrier applying fuel surcharges.
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WildcatYXU
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:26 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
I don't know why Canada still permits airlines to advertise fares like that.



I have a feeling Viscount724 that you've been away from Canada for too long time   . Otherwise you would know that this is a common practice around here. Buying a car? You have the list price, but then you have to add:

- Fuel excise tax (as we don't pay enough tax in the fuel price)
- Air conditioning excise tax
- Delivery
- Tax

Or how about my natural gas bill:

- Gas price
- Gas price adjustment
- Storage
- Transportation to Union gas
- Delivery
- Delivery price adjustment

All of this is charged per cubic metre. Add to this the monthly charge and HST (both separate items on the bill).
So, AC is only doing what everybody else is doing. Not like I agree with it, I just take it as a fact of life. As far as AC's pricing is concerned, one has to be aware of this only when booking a ticket to EU on airline web sites. AC's prices are broken down like this, while the Europeans have final prices on their sites.
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ACDC8
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:37 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 15):
I have a feeling Viscount724 that you've been away from Canada for too long time . Otherwise you would know that this is a common practice around here.

Don't forget cell phones plans ... $XX a month plus $XX tax plus $XX system access fee plus $XX 911 access fee, etc.

But airlines charging almost 6 times their advertised price is beyond decitful. Thats one of the things I really miss about living in Germany, you see a price advertised you pay that price, not like here we you have to pull out a bloody calculator and start adding everything to figure out exactly what you really have to pay.
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WildcatYXU
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:57 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 16):
But airlines charging almost 6 times their advertised price is beyond decitful.



Sure, at least the fuel and Nav charges should be a part of the base fare. These are, after all, elementary parts of the airline business costs...
Otherwise we may see a base fare of $ 5 and with everything else added. Imagine:
Captain's fee
FO fee
CSD fee
FA fee (that may multiply, in dependence on the aircraft)
Aircraft usage fee
And the list would go further and further, until the full fare is built 
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 16):
Thats one of the things I really miss about living in Germany, you see a price advertised you pay that price, not like here we you have to pull out a bloody calculator and start adding everything to figure out exactly what you really have to pay.



This is one of the few things I'm missing about living in the old country too. OTOH it's good to be reminded about all the parasites sucking on the businesses and consumers.
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Viscount724
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:30 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 15):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
I don't know why Canada still permits airlines to advertise fares like that.



I have a feeling Viscount724 that you've been away from Canada for too long time. Otherwise you would know that this is a common practice around here. Buying a car? You have the list price, but then you have to add:

That's my point. It should be broken out on the receipt but advertising should only show the grand total.

It's the same for hotels. Book a hotel room in Europe and the quoted amount is all you pay. In Canada and the US, the total is often 15% or 20% more with GST, provincial/state and often local taxes added. In Europe you only see those amounts broken out on your final bill.
 
AirCanada787
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:33 am

Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 10):
Quoting longhauler (Reply 9):
And, if I am not mistaken, there are new consumer rules and protocols being enacted in Canada that will no longer allow such pricing.

I believe this is correct. While I can't find a source, I have heard of this for a while.

There was a bill (Bill C-11) which the House of Commons voted unanimously on in February of 2007. In June of 2007 the Bill was passed and it amended the Canada Transportation Act so airlines will be forced to advertise the full cost of a ticket, including any fees, surcharges and taxes. When the bill was passed I believe that it was announced that the federal cabinet would set a date for its implementation after consultations with the industry and the provinces. This past June there was an article in the National Post about how the Transport Minister had still not held or set a date for the consultations. There was also a private members bill introduced to the house in 2009 that had all in pricing in it as well as a passengers bill of rights.


Also in Ontario and Quebec any advertising done by a travel agency must list a price that includes all fees and surcharges due to legislation in those provinces.
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keagkid101
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:31 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 9):
Not a bad deal really, for about 5000 miles of travel.

It's how the flight is advertised. It shouldn't be advertised as $99.
 
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longhauler
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RE: YVR To MEX For $99.. Cough.. Cough..

Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:05 am

Quoting keagkid101 (Reply 20):
It's how the flight is advertised. It shouldn't be advertised as $99.

Which is the whole point of this entire thread, and I am pretty sure no one here will argue with you.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!

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