photophil
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DTW Or MSP

Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:21 am

Maybe someone can help me.

In september I will be in the US for a business trip. On my way back i was offered connections via Detroit DTW or Minneapolis (MSP) using Delta to come back to Europe. Which one do you think is the better airport for the connection and (as a spotter) which one gives you better chances for photos during the waiting time.

thanks a lot

PHILIP
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photophil
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:41 am

Just more information about the other legs of the trip:

LPI - AMS - JFK
*some days in NY*
JFK - CLE
*business*
CLE - ??? - AMS - LPI

so that's what everything is about

PHILIP
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BD338
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:30 am

From an aiport experience I would go with DTW. The DL (ex-NW) Terminal is bright, airy, spacious and never seems crowded even at busy times. (The complete opposite of the old terminal). Chance of seeing some LH, AF metal depending on your time of day and NK fly there on the domestic side. Though those flights are in a diferrent terminal across the airfield. Other than that pretty much the same airlines as MSP. Which isn't a bad airport, just the DTW facility is more modern and designed from the start for modern traffic volumes/needs. You wouldn't back track so far from CLE either going through DTW.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:30 pm

MSP is probably better for photos, not so much for variety of carriers (which is worse, though MSP gets FI in September) but for the observation deck and the generally better photography possibilities (no spots on the windows in MSP).

The connection will be more pleasant in DTW, however. You are going to have a l-o-n-g walk in MSP.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
photophil
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:40 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
You are going to have a l-o-n-g walk in MSP.

I would have about 5 hours at the airport. So there should still be enough time left for spotting. How difficult is it to go from airside to the observation deck and back through security?

Thanks

PHILIP
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Cubsrule
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:58 pm

Quoting photophil (Reply 4):
How difficult is it to go from airside to the observation deck and back through security?

The observation deck is airside.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
photophil
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:26 pm

WOW, thats great

I only know different observation decks here in Europe accesible for everyone (not only for people with tickets)

... and as MSP seems to have the shorter over-all travel time I think I will stick with the CLE-MSP-AMS-LPI routing

Thanks for all your help

PHILIP

PS: That will give a nice trip: 6 flights, 5 different aircraft types and 5 different airports

LPI - AMS - JFK - CLE - MSP - AMS - LPI
F70, B744, E145, CRJ200, B767, F70
300-310-319-320-321-332-342-343-388-717-734-735-736-73H-738-744-74M-752-76E-77W-F70-100-E70-E75-E90-E95-AT4-AT7-CR2-CR9-
 
DTWLAX
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:07 am

Quoting photophil (Reply 6):
and as MSP seems to have the shorter over-all travel time I think I will stick with the CLE-MSP-AMS-LPI routing

I do not understand. How does going through MSP have a shorter over-all travel time?
DTW is much closer to CLE and then you said this:

Quoting photophil (Reply 4):
I would have about 5 hours at the airport

Even after this MSP has shorter travel time??
 
jetblue777
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:33 am

DTW:

Quoting BD338 (Reply 2):
Terminal is bright, airy, spacious and never seems crowded even at busy times.

BUT....

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
MSP is probably better for photos

The dreaded dots in DTW! But I'd go with DTW. Lots of shops, restaurants and probably the easiest major airport to navigate.
It's a cultural thing.
 
photophil
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:00 am

jep

CLE-DTW-AMS-LPI connection is a bit more then 20 hours
CLE-MSP-AMS-LPI connection is just over 19 hours

I think its just that the connections are better lined up.

KLM even offered me connections with more then 25 hours using the same ports

PHILIP
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apodino
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:23 pm

Quoting JetBlue777 (Reply 8):

The dreaded dots in DTW! But I'd go with DTW. Lots of shops, restaurants and probably the easiest major airport to navigate.

Though MSP has long walks, it is still pretty simple to navigate. Plus there are lots of shops and restaurants as well, especially in the main terminal area. If the connection is Mainline to Mainline, and you are looking for Photo ops, I would go with MSP, otherwise I say DTW.

A note on the MSP observation deck. It is located above the D gates, and the stairs are to your left right as you enter the D gates waiting area. It's hard to see, but its there, and its the best kept secret in MSP.
 
photophil
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:47 pm

Thanks for the info.

I think I will stay with MSP. That sounds to be a really good spot for airside spotting. And as both possibilities (MSP and DTW) have the same price and the same plane types on use - but via MSP the spotting seems to better and its even 1hr shorter in over all time. So, why not  

Beside: What B767 version does Delta uses for the MSP-AMS connection? They just say 767, but not if its a -300, -300ER or even -400

PHILIP
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:27 pm

Is the DTW-AMS segment on an A330-300 or the 767? If it is an A330-300, it is arguably a nicer aircraft than DL's 767-300. That may factor into your decision. You might also be able to do a CLE-ATL-AMS-LPI flight as well, I think the ATL-AMS section is on a KLM 777.

DTW is a somewhat nicer, more modern facility than MSP, but MSP is perfectly fine by any means.

If you are interested in photos, spotting, and the observation deck then MSP would win that contest. As said, there are little black dots on the windows at DTW to limit the sunlight from heating up the terminal that interfere with photos.

However if you do go through DTW, you can easily exit the terminal and go to the top floor of the parking garage for a good view of the airfield. Plus, you get good close-up views of the narrowbody side of A-concourse which would include a mix of CR7, CR9, E75, DC-9-50, MD-88, A319/A320, and 738 at the gates.

DTW may have a little more diverse mix of aircraft at that time of the day than MSP. You will likely find DL 744, 777s, as well as an AF A340 there. Might be slightly more DC-9s in DTW than MSP, but MSP you'll have MD-90s around too.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:01 am

Oh boy, two of my favorite airports. Of course MSP is essentially my "home" airport, so I have a little bit of bias towards it.

For photos, I'd go for MSP. And a big part of why is because of the observation deck. The action on 12L/30R and the A, B, C, D, and the UA/US side of the E concourse gates will go right in front of you with a good sun angle (if sunny out). During a bank the action is non-stop. You likely won't see many of the big birds from there, but you can walk over the other side of the terminal to see them if you like. DTW offers a great lineup of heavies at the gate during the afternoon, but the stupid dots on the windows makes photography difficult. And once the heavies are gone, there isn't a great view of runway action available from inside the terminal like at MSP.

Inside, the two facilities are radically different but both very nice. DTW gives you the mile-long main concourse. MSP gives you an old-school feel of walking around in a classic terminal layout. DTW has the new-style layout with tall ceilings and shiny surfaces. MSP gives you the classic clean and cozy feel. DTW has the cool tunnel and fountain area in the mid-section. MSP has its own mall in which you don't feel like you're in an airport anymore. Both are large terminals, so there's plenty to explore.

Bottom line: Both are cool airports, so it's too bad you can't visit both! But since you can only pick one, I'll throw my biased vote for MSP.

Quoting photophil (Reply 11):
What B767 version does Delta uses for the MSP-AMS connection?

That would be a 767-300ER.
 
photophil
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:21 am

Quoting : If it is an A330-300, it is arguably a nicer aircraft than DL's 767-300

Is that really the case? Is it so much better? I had never flown with a B767 before so until now I opted for that. What is the big difference between B763 and an A333 in Delta.
If I include the plane in the selection, I have the following choices:

CLE-MSP-AMS-LPI with 5hrs in MSP, 1,5hrs in AMS and B763, 19hrs over all
CLE-MSP-AMS-LPI with 3hrs in MSP, 3,5hrs in AMS and A333, 19hrs over all
CLE-DTW-AMS-LPI with 1hr in DTW, 8,5hrs in AMS and A332, 21hrs over all
CLE-DTW-AMS-LPI with 7hrs in DTW, 1,5hrs in AMS and B767, 21hs over all
CLE-DTW-AMS-LPI with 3,5hrs in DTW, 6,5hrs in AMS and A333, 21hrs over all
CLE-DTW-AMS-LPI with 4,5hrs in DTW, 5,5hrs in AMS and A333, 21hrs over all

there are even longer connections with 23hrs over all ... I already skipped these.
The first one is also the cheapest to get right now.

Thanks for the help choosing.

PHILIP
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Cubsrule
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:03 pm

Quoting photophil (Reply 14):
Is that really the case? Is it so much better?

If you are in Y and planning to sleep going east, then go for the 763 if you haven't flown one. The big differences are in the front cabins and with IFE, neither of which is relevant if my assumptions are correct.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
delimit
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:38 pm

Quoting JetBlue777 (Reply 8):
The dreaded dots in DTW! But I'd go with DTW. Lots of shops, restaurants and probably the easiest major airport to navigate.

The sports bar/airside smoking area in DTW makes a fantasic Bloody Mary. It's amazing how this has affected my decisions over time.  
 
photophil
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:58 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15):
If you are in Y and planning to sleep going east, then go for the 763 if you haven't flown one. The big differences are in the front cabins and with IFE, neither of which is relevant if my assumptions are correct.

Thats exactly what I'm going to do. I will only get economy paid for by my employer. And as this will be a long flight after a long day I will at least try to sleep.

Thanks

PHILIP
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DTWLAX
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:42 pm

Quoting photophil (Reply 9):
jep

CLE-DTW-AMS-LPI connection is a bit more then 20 hours
CLE-MSP-AMS-LPI connection is just over 19 hours

I think its just that the connections are better lined up.

I was surprised when you said it is quicker through MSP, so I did a search on a random day (Sept. 21) and came up with a much shorter travel time via DTW (16 hrs 50 mins)

CLE 5:35pm - LPI 4:25pm (Sept. 22)
16h 50m
DTW3h 32m Layover
AMS2h 35m Layover
Flights: DL 4046, DL 248, KL 1179

The next shorter option is via JFK (17 hrs 8 mins). You will get to see a ton of variety at JFK.

So I am not sure how you found going through MSP shorter than DTW or JFK since it involves a lot of backtracking.
 
photophil
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:57 am

strange, isn't it  

But the connection you found is only operated M-F and I will be travelling back on a saturday.

I will book this connection on as I will have three new airports and 2 new aircraft types. The hours in MSP can be spend with some spotting (I never spotted at an american airport)

http://www.photo-phil.org/planepictures/transatlantic.gif

Thanks again

PHILIP
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falstaff
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:19 pm

Quoting Delimit (Reply 16):
The sports bar/airside smoking area in DTW makes a fantasic Bloody Mary. It's amazing how this has affected my decisions over time.


Do they still allow smoking in there, now that Michigan is smoke free in workplaces (except the Detroit casinos)? I haven't seen anyone smoking in there in a long while.

I would go with DTW, but I am biased as it is my home airport....

Quoting photophil (Reply 6):
I only know different observation decks here in Europe accesible for everyone (not only for people with tickets)


MSP is one of the few US airports that still has an observation area. Even before 9-11 there were few.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
delimit
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RE: DTW Or MSP

Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:11 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 20):
Do they still allow smoking in there, now that Michigan is smoke free in workplaces (except the Detroit casinos)? I haven't seen anyone smoking in there in a long while.

Been a while since I've been through but it looks like no: http://www.metroairport.com/information/faq.asp#smoke

Still, a fantastic Bloody Mary.

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