CBRboy
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QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:26 am

Qantas flight QF8 from DFW to BNE on Friday 15 July (arriving Sunday 17 July) diverted to Noumea - the second time this has happened since the route commenced in May. Does anyone know the reasons for the diversion? The previous diversion on 23 May was due to stronger than usual headwinds. I note that this time the aircraft appears to have spent almost four hours on the ground in BNE before continuing to SYD.
 
qf002
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:00 am

They will probably just say it was the winds again. QF appear to have been sending the plane out pretty much full (there is now a trip report of the flight in the db) so they may have become a bit overly ambitious...

The only other thing I can think of is that it was flown by VH-OEJ again (the Wanula Dreaming plane) and had to divert as a consequence of the planes weight (the other NOU diversion was the only other time that -OEJ did the flight back in May)
 
fiscal
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:14 am

Winds have been a problem for a couple of weeks now. The QF SYD - JNB flights have been calling in to PER for a top up before crossing the ocean.
 
baroque
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:16 am

Quoting fiscal (Reply 2):
Winds have been a problem for a couple of weeks now. The QF SYD - JNB flights have been calling in to PER for a top up before crossing the ocean.

But that is a different set of jet streams - I hope!
 
Auchmithie
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:50 am

Aircraft is VH-OEH.
Increased stopover time in Brisbane is most likely that the Noumea stop would put crew out of hours
before Sydney arrival so a substitute crew will need to be arranged.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:34 am

Quoting Auchmithie (Reply 4):
Aircraft is VH-OEH.
Increased stopover time in Brisbane is most likely that the Noumea stop would put crew out of hours
before Sydney arrival so a substitute crew will need to be arranged.

Sorry, but it doesn't seem very likely to me that the crew which flies DFW-BNE would actually be allowed to fly the final BNE-SYD leg even in the best of circumstances. Surely they would be at the limits of duty time when they reach BNE even without a stop in NOU, so it must be a different crew who fly the final leg and presumably they were already in place. Can anyone from QF confirm this?
 
NZ5
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:35 am

QF8 today is going to Auckland?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA8

What is going on...
 
AA737-823
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:25 am

Quoting NZ5 (Reply 6):
QF8 today is going to Auckland?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA8

What is going on...

Didn't you hear?
Today is Qantas roulette. Get on a plane, and simply see where you end up.
The REAL gamblers onboard are placing bets on how many of the engines will be running when they get there...
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:30 am

Quoting NZ5 (Reply 6):
QF8 today is going to Auckland?

Appears to me that AKL was filed as the destination because of the routing detail of the flight plan. On the face of it it appears QF are loading her up and taking the tech stop if that is necessary
 
AnsettB727
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:31 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):
Today is Qantas roulette. Get on a plane, and simply see where you end up.
The REAL gamblers onboard are placing bets on how many of the engines will be running when they get there...

This is unfortunately the case. I really want to support my country's flagship, but it's starting to get to the point where this is getting beyond the joke.
 
CBRboy
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:44 am

Quoting NZ5 (Reply 6):
QF8 today is going to Auckland?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA8

What is going on...

Hmmn... that is what the QF flight status web page says, too. Very strange. You posted when the aircraft was about six hours into the flight. Seems curious that they would decide to divert so early. Auckland is a long way off the route and Noumea is on the route. Noumea has no adverse weather. Anybody from Qantas able to comment?
 
COSPN
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:55 am

Lets see what really happens... Continental used to do this in the Old days on the DC-10 the flight was HNL-SYD but they would file HNL-AKL then if the winds and fuel, and SYD weather were ok the would re-file to SYD never actually stoping in AKL ..

bets anyone ????
 
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RobK
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:55 am

Quoting fiscal (Reply 2):
Winds have been a problem for a couple of weeks now. The QF SYD - JNB flights have been calling in to PER for a top up before crossing the ocean.

Wait. Geography fail? Since when did DFW-BNE route via the Indian Ocean?   
 
flymad
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:58 am

QF seem to be having a rough time of it lately - QF 64 (B744) JNB-SYD had an IFSD two hours out of JNB on Friday night. No. 3 engine - retuned to JNB after dumping fuel - Springbok rugby team on board heading to Aussie for Tri-Nations rugby tests
 
earlynff
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:02 am

Quoting cbrboy (Reply 10):
You posted when the aircraft was about six hours into the flight. Seems curious that they would decide to divert so early.

Don´t know about operations and procedures at QF, but a possible reclearance decission to intented destination, (not flight plan dest) is normally made much later into the flight.
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:05 am

Quoting cbrboy (Reply 10):
Auckland is a long way off the route and Noumea is on the route. Noumea has no adverse weather.

The AKL arrivals page is showing an arrival of 0545 which makes the sector time from DFW ~ 14hrs. Based on the sector distance shown in FlightAware of 6509nm this gives an average cruise of ~477k which is a relatively minor nose wind of about 11k. Something in the order of -20 to -30 is more usual.
They were going to take a tech stop anyway so it seems to me they loaded for a DFW-AKL sector based on the relatively favorable winds. Perhaps they had a back log of freight that needed to be moved.
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:23 am

This is the second (unless I am mistaken and the IAH one doesnt count as that was weather) diversion of this flight. I would hardly call it a failure. It has flown roughly 36 flights DFW-BNE so far and 2 have diverted. For such a long route, I dont think it is a particularly bad percentage (only just over 5%). Nor have I heard of any SYD-DFW flights diverting (again IAH doesnt count), so I think, so far, it has been quite successful. Everyone loves to get on the QF hate train, but if you take a look at it, for a brand new route, and the longest flight by a multi class aircraft (SQ is only Business AFAIK), the DFW flights have so far gone quite smoothly. I am sure as they get more experience with the route, that 5% diversion rate on DFW-BNE will lower significantly. I would applaud QF for trying something fairly risky, isnt that what everyone has been complaining about QF NOT doing for years?
 
Eirules
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:23 am

With all this going on (and assuming its down to either headwinds or excessive loads, or both), are we likely to see the A380 deployed on this route? Is DFW A380 ready?
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:35 am

Quoting EIRules (Reply 17):
are we likely to see the A380 deployed on this route?

Not sure if the A380 has the legs for it. Would be a good 788 route.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
Gemuser
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:36 am

Quoting EIRules (Reply 17):
are we likely to see the A380 deployed on this route?

IMHO, very likely, but probably not until numbers 13 & 14 arrive (2013, I believe), but if loads are so good they might be tempted when 11 & 12 arrive this year.

Gemuser
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Eirules
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:40 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 18):
Not sure if the A380 has the legs for it

Thought the A380 has better range than the 744, but perhaps Im wrong
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
Gemuser
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:43 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 18):
Not sure if the A380 has the legs for it. Would be a good 788 route.

It does, especially the post 2012 version, but the current one can do it with a payload restriction, just like the B744ER today. If the B774ER is going out heavily loaded the B788 is far too small.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
qf002
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:37 pm

Quoting fiscal (Reply 2):
The QF SYD - JNB flights have been calling in to PER for a top up before crossing the ocean.

That's because of lingering ash from the volcano, not the winds.

Quoting EIRules (Reply 17):
are we likely to see the A380 deployed on this route?
Quoting gemuser (Reply 19):
IMHO, very likely, but probably not until numbers 13 & 14 arrive (2013, I believe), but if loads are so good they might be tempted when 11 & 12 arrive this year.

If we do then I doubt it will be for a good few years. The route is still only at 4 weekly, and I would have thought that getting it up to daily and improving yields (the seats they are flying now were all heavily discounted in their massive sale) would be their number one priorities. Also consider all the other routes QF could direct the aircraft they're getting over the next couple of years towards where they really do need the extra capacity and newer product (ie SYD-HKG).

Quoting gemuser (Reply 21):
If the B774ER is going out heavily loaded the B788 is far too small.

4 weekly 747 with all 302 seats open = 1208 seats a week.

Daily 788 with around 240 seats = 1680 seats a week, plus massively boosted cargo capabilities plus benefits of having the route at daily plus economic benefits of the 787 over the 747.

Seems to me that a daily 787 as soon as QF get them (18 months or so??) would be the best way to grow, then going to 788/789/A380 mixture in 5 years (or maybe even, God forbid, a flight from MEL or BNE  Wow! )
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:27 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 15):
The AKL arrivals page is showing an arrival of 0545 which makes the sector time from DFW ~ 14hrs. Based on the sector distance shown in FlightAware of 6509nm this gives an average cruise of ~477k which is a relatively minor nose wind of about 11k. Something in the order of -20 to -30 is more usual.

I believe the 477 knots is TAS (true air speed). The winds aloft will effect the GS (ground speed). The difference between the TAS and the GS is the wind speed component (+ for a tailwind, - for a headwind). The drift (plus drift or minus drift) indicates the wind direction and how much of the wind is a headwind, tailwind, or crosswind.

[Edited 2011-07-17 06:29:41]
 
happylandings
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:18 pm

If flight distance is divided by flight time as done in reply 15, this should already be GS.
 
DTWLAX
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:47 pm

Quoting RobK (Reply 12):
Quoting fiscal (Reply 2):
Winds have been a problem for a couple of weeks now. The QF SYD - JNB flights have been calling in to PER for a top up before crossing the ocean.

Wait. Geography fail? Since when did DFW-BNE route via the Indian Ocean?

He was talking about the SYD-JNB flight and not DFW-BNE
 
EnviroTO
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:30 pm

I can't help but wonder why QF never ordered 777-200LRs. It seems that their location would make them the ideal candidates for the aircraft.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:19 pm

^^ They had their reasons not to order the 777, and that has been brought up numerous times before.

I just love the hysteria that goes on around QF flight 'issues'. Just settle down as it's hardly the end of the world if a few flights are diverted. Hardly ideal, but not as bad as some seem to portray.

Let's hope that the 787 gives them the aircraft to provide some on here added confidence in the ability to handle the mission.

Just saying also, there is no need for a thread each time a plane diverts. A thought to consider  
 
nonrevman
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:27 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
Sorry, but it doesn't seem very likely to me that the crew which flies DFW-BNE would actually be allowed to fly the final BNE-SYD leg even in the best of circumstances. Surely they would be at the limits of duty time when they reach BNE even without a stop in NOU, so it must be a different crew who fly the final leg and presumably they were already in place. Can anyone from QF confirm this?

Indeed there was a whole different flight crew for the BNE-SYD flight when I was on it, at least the flight attendants were different.

It does look like three diversions of the DFW-BNE leg to date now, two to Noumea, and the current one in progress to Auckland.

I sure am glad to not have experienced a diversion myself. 15+ hours from DFW-BNE, an hour and a half on the ground at BNE, and another hour to SYD is taxing enough in Y. Add delays and a diversion and that becomes a seriously long and tiring journey. For the Auckland diversion, hopefully the SYD pax will simply be reaccomodated at AKL and not have to go to BNE and then SYD.

[Edited 2011-07-17 10:33:19]
 
baroque
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:43 pm

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 25):
He was talking about the SYD-JNB flight and not DFW-BNE

Which as pointed out is subject to a different jet stream system. DFW-BNE will collect the subtropical streams and the SYD-JNB the polar jet streams. As it happens the subtropical ones over Aus have been more persistent of late and the polar ones a bit more patchy. So beyond the obvious that they are both W to E routes, the problems found on the JNB route are not similar to those on the BNE route - not even allowing for a time delay as systems drift East - because they are different systems.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:47 pm

^^ As stated by a user before, the SYD-JNB route is not a jetstream issue but an ash related one.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: QF8 Diverts To Noumea Again

Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:51 pm

Quoting truemanqld (Reply 16):
This is the second (unless I am mistaken and the IAH one doesnt count as that was weather) diversion of this flight. I would hardly call it a failure. It has flown roughly 36 flights DFW-BNE so far and 2 have diverted. For such a long route, I dont think it is a particularly bad percentage (only just over 5%). Nor have I heard of any SYD-DFW flights diverting (again IAH doesnt count), so I think, so far, it has been quite successful. Everyone loves to get on the QF hate train, but if you take a look at it, for a brand new route, and the longest flight by a multi class aircraft (SQ is only Business AFAIK), the DFW flights have so far gone quite smoothly. I am sure as they get more experience with the route, that 5% diversion rate on DFW-BNE will lower significantly. I would applaud QF for trying something fairly risky, isnt that what everyone has been complaining about QF NOT doing for years?

Thank you. People think the sky is falling. Oh my God we have to stop for fuel. There are worse things in this world to have to deal with.
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