PC12Fan
Topic Author
Posts: 2011
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

Newer J Class Design Philosophy

Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:27 pm

I’m not sure what kind of response this will get but I wanted to see what other “A.netters” out there think.

I’m one that thinks Business Class should have a design / philosophy that fits between First and Economy class, like in it's infancy. A product better than Economy but doesn’t quite approach First. What drives this idea is lie-flat business in a tri-class configuration. I can embrace the idea of lie-flat business in a two class configuration, but I personally find it confusing in a tri-class.

Why not have a very comfortable cradle type seat where you could have more seats, which would also mean a less expensive product than a lie flat one?

Now, I realize that there may be something about this that “I just don’t get it”. I know, I know! Hard to believe, but I’m hoping to be enlightened.

Regards.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
zrs70
Posts: 3465
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: Newer J Class Design Philosophy

Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:57 am

A very interesting question. If you think about it, business class originally a step below most airline's premium economy today. Companies who would not foot the bill for employees to fly F put them in C instead.

Now, C is verboten for many employees.
18 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2017
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 4419
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

RE: Newer J Class Design Philosophy

Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:42 am

Why not have a very comfortable cradle type seat where you could have more seats, which would also mean a less expensive product than a lie flat one?

Yes you could have this but it would not meet the sleep requirement.
You sleep BETTER on a FLAT bed.
That is the human body.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9605
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Newer J Class Design Philosophy

Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:22 pm

When business class was originally conceived, it was about 38-45'' pitch. It was just a cradle seat that was more comfortable for Y. The reason why it kept improving was airlines were trying to out-do their competitors. Fares are relatively consistent in business class, so having a better seat would attract more customers.

Here's rough pitch by year for the average carrier
1990: 40''
1995: 50''
2000: 55''
2005: 60'' (lie flat)
2010: 75'' (Fully flat)

With that said, premium economy started showign up around 2000, and in 2010 it started becoming commonplace in many airlines and again we are back to about 40'' just like we were in 1990. If the cycle continues, premium economy will be come more common and eventually it will get more and more pitch with time. Premium economy is replacing business class as business is replacing first. The reason is all psychological. Companies won't pay first, but will pay business.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
RamblinMan
Posts: 809
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:57 pm

RE: Newer J Class Design Philosophy

Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:18 pm

Quoting PC12Fan (Thread starter):
Why not have a very comfortable cradle type seat where you could have more seats, which would also mean a less expensive product than a lie flat one?

Because that isn't necessarily true. Some of the new J-class designs are very creative in how they utilize the cabin space, and end up not taking up that much more room than the recliners they replace.

Quoting PC12Fan (Thread starter):
Now, I realize that there may be something about this that “I just don’t get it”

What you don't get is that there's a lot of us who will never ever not in a million years be able to afford a magnificent suite with sliding doors... and certainly appreciate a flat surface to sleep on in J.

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