flybynight
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Airports With Poor Layouts

Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:09 pm

It's a small airport, but never do I seem to have to walk further than I do at GEG (from rental car agencies to AS check-in). Not only that, the two concourses are not interconnected.
Who designed this f-ed up airport?
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flyiguy
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:19 pm

I'd have to give that honor to PHL! An airport with poor terminal construction where flights have to either be pushing out or taxing in but not at the same time and then with 3 runways of which only 2 can be utilized by non commuter aircraft. It's just a terrible airport all together.

Just my 0.02
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NWADC9
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:35 pm

MCI without a doubt. True, O&D pax can walk off the plane and a few feet later you're at the curb, but that's pretty much the only good thing there. As a post-security bandaid in the early 70s, each cluster of gates has their own security checkpoint. And until several years ago, there weren't any restrooms or shops within the secured area; you'd have to reenter security after you buy a paper and do your business. Plus, each cluster isn't connected, so if you had a connecting flight leaving out of another gate, you'd have to leave security and reenter at another cluster. TWA and Brannif parted ways with their hub ops in Kansas City courtesy of these inconveniences. Also, with the many checkpoints at the airport, they all need staffed and equipped, so an extra financial hit goes to managing all those little checkpoints instead of one or two checkpoint like at many airports.
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PlymSpotter
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:41 pm

In my opinion CDG has, by a country mile, the least inter-connectivity of any major European airport. However it is also one of the most formative and beautiful.


Dan  
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planejamie
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:58 pm

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 1):

I'd have to give that honor to PHL! An airport with poor terminal construction where flights have to either be pushing out or taxing in but not at the same time and then with 3 runways of which only 2 can be utilized by non commuter aircraft. It's just a terrible airport all together.

I agree with part of that, but from a passenger perspective, the terminals were very easy to get between (unless you were on a commuter aircraft) and transfer from International to Domestic was pain free and quiet too!

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 3):
In my opinion CDG has, by a country mile, the least inter-connectivity of any major European airport. However it is also one of the most formative and beautiful.

It's good if you're going between flights in the same terminal but if you need to connect anywhere else, it's useless!

LHR isn't too bad actually for connections with busses to each terminal airside. I would say AMS but the individual security checkpoints mean that it is a pain if you've bought a bottle of water and want to take it with you!
 
goldorak
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:15 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 3):
In my opinion CDG has, by a country mile, the least inter-connectivity of any major European airport. However it is also one of the most formative and beautiful.

It really depends on which terminal. Connecting 2E-2F or vice-versa is very easy. Also 2A and 2C are being linked airside. But connecting 2G to anywhere is a pain...
 
USAIRWAYS321
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:50 am

Quoting flybynight (Thread starter):

It's a small airport, but never do I seem to have to walk further than I do at GEG (from rental car agencies to AS check-in). Not only that, the two concourses are not interconnected.
Who designed this f-ed up airport?

Have they changed this recently? I flew out of GEG quite often from 2005-2009 and there was a hallway between Concourses B and C.
 
qf002
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:39 am

Ever been to any Australian airports? Try making an International-Domestic transfer in less than a couple of hours  
 
BD338
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:07 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 7):
Ever been to any Australian airports? Try making an International-Domestic transfer in less than a couple of hours

What is the "obsession" with Australian airports about putting International and Domestic airports in completely separate Terminals often the opposite side of a runway?

My vote for worst layout goes to CDG, the runway configuration can lead to very lengthy taxi times, and then sometimes remote parking and then you can find yourself trying to navigate from one Terminal to another depending on the connection. I've had nearly 2 hour connection times that have become a near last minute rush to catch the connection. LAX is bad for inter terminal connections, if you are not on the same Alliance/airline. The sheer size of ATL can be a challenge to catch a tight connection if you have to move concourses, get the train etc.
 
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UltimateDelta
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:47 pm

I'm going to have to go with EWR. I can't complain too much about the actual concourse areas (the moving walkways help a lot), but the international security re-screening (at least for terminal C; not sure about the others) has to be the dumbest arrangement I've seen. You drop off your bags, but then you're directed into the pre-security zone and have to go through again along with all of the regular passengers going through initial screening.
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PacNWjet
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:59 pm

Quoting UltimateDelta (Reply 9):
the international security re-screening (at least for terminal C; not sure about the others) has to be the dumbest arrangement I've seen. You drop off your bags, but then you're directed into the pre-security zone and have to go through again along with all of the regular passengers going through initial screening.

Isn't this standard operating procedure at U.S. airports? In recent experiences I have had at DFW, LAX, SFO, and SLC the arrangement was the same way as what the poster describes for EWR, or am I missing something here?
 
CairnterriAIR
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:43 pm

JFK....need I say more?
 
jetblue777
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:48 pm

Quoting CairnterriAIR (Reply 11):

JFK....need I say more?


I disagree but if you're talking about Delta's home in JFK   

I find T1, T4, T5, T7 and T8 all well organized and passenger friendly. However, if you're transferring in JFK, it might be a bit inconvenient considering it has 8 terminals. BUT it's not that bad, the runways are well laid out and I never had any major issues.
It's a cultural thing.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:56 pm

Any airport with separate terminals for domestic and international flights and requires a bus transfer in my mind are worst. SVO is miserable. Indian airports can be a nightmare. Struggling to make a 3 hour connection and switching terminals is worst.
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UltimateDelta
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:13 pm

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 10):
Isn't this standard operating procedure at U.S. airports?

It's possible, but I only remember experiencing it there (I was much younger the last times I made international connections, so my memory isn't the greatest). At DTW, for example, international arrivals have separate screening directly after passport control/customs, and after it you take an escalator up into the main terminal, inside the secure area. I want to say CVG was like this as well, but again, I don't really remember.



[Edited 2011-12-18 11:22:48]
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B747forever
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:27 pm

On Tuesday I am flying into BOS from AMS on DL and then connecting onto ATL (and LAX) on DL. Will have to clear immigration/collect my bags/exit/walk to next terminal WITH my bags/enter Terminal A/queue for baggage drop/clear security and then get to the gate. Have only 1.5 hrs, hopefully I will make the connection. The whole process doesnt seem efficient.
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1337Delta764
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:37 am

Here is my list:

Worst: ORD. Too scattered and spread out.

Best: ATL, DEN. The sets of parallel concourses has proven to be ideal for a major hub airport.
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thegman
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:19 am

Quoting planejamie (Reply 4):
and transfer from International to Domestic was pain free and quiet too!

Hardly. It was hot and sticky after I just got off a 10 hour flight from Barcelona this summer. Right in the middle of the Euro push the lines at security re-screening were terrible. I think CLT is much better for international pax, but granted, I have never connected there because it is my home.
 
AlnessW
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:31 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 15):
Will have to clear immigration/collect my bags/exit/walk to next terminal WITH my bags/enter Terminal A/queue for baggage drop/clear security and then get to the gate.

Not sure that's right. BOS does have a "connecting baggage dropoff" carousel just as you exit the customs area (but BEFORE the international arrivals exit - don't exit there if you are connecting.) in Terminal E. Just follow the signs to Connecting Flights. Are your bags checked all the way through to ATL or LAX? If so, you should just be able to drop them off after clearing customs in Terminal E and not have to bring them to Terminal A and queue with DL.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 15):
Have only 1.5 hrs, hopefully I will make the connection.

Might be close. Terminal A security can be hairy.
 
jlarsson
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:39 pm

LHR and CDG are by the length that the universe is wide the worst that exists.

Whoever designed those airports have a special place reserved at a very hot place.

ORD & BOS is a breeze.

br, jlarsson
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steex
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:54 pm

Taking the entire way the airport functions into account, I'll go with MNL from my experiences. The airport has three entirely separate terminals (four if you count the tiny Manila Domestic Terminal), and of course T1 is an unmitigated disaster in pretty much every way. Attempting to connect between T1 and T3 could require 40+ minutes of surface transport when traffic on the NAIA Road is at its worst, which can occur at virtually any time.

Having to basically go through security three times to get from cab to plane in T1 is pretty annoying - all items through x-ray/metal detector once to get into the check-in hall, proper security to get into the terminal itself, and once more to get into your specific departure gate. And speaking of cabs, not really a part of the airport layout per se, but the system of having airport taxis that carry all fares departing the airport dramatically increases the taxi traffic since many of the incoming fares are in regular taxis that then leave empty (and try to charge you double for their inconvenience).
 
jetblue777
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:47 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 20):
Taking the entire way the airport functions into account, I'll go with MNL from my experiences. The airport has three entirely separate terminals (four if you count the tiny Manila Domestic Terminal), and of course T1 is an unmitigated disaster in pretty much every way. Attempting to connect between T1 and T3 could require 40+ minutes of surface transport when traffic on the NAIA Road is at its worst, which can occur at virtually any time.

   YES. I couldn't agree more. T1 is a complete dump (although like I said before, I had many memories on it, so in a way, I like the terminal) The Domestic Terminal is even worse, I've seen better bus terminals in the Philippines...T2 and T3, however are much nicer. Like you said, transferring is a nightmare. Although we always stay at MNL for a day or two before we transfer to a domestic flight to shop and of course, avoid the nightmare.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 16):
Best: ATL, DEN. The sets of parallel concourses has proven to be ideal for a major hub airport.

I completely agree. Although the taxi time at DEN could be long, I haven't had any bad experiences with the airport and one of the best in the US IMO. ATL, being the busiest airport in the world, it's such a surprise how organize it is. The concourses are well laid out, transfer is always a breeze although the crowds can be a bit of a frustration but nothing major.

As for ORD, I've only transferred twice and it was from a UA flight to another UA flight so we didn't have any problems at all. But I get what you're saying.

My vote would be DTW. DL's terminal is probably the easiest large terminal to navigate through.
It's a cultural thing.
 
Akiestar
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:49 pm

Quoting jetblue777 (Reply 21):
T1 is a complete dump (although like I said before, I had many memories on it, so in a way, I like the terminal)

I presume you don't know about the renovations at NAIA Terminal 1? It's much nicer now than 2-3 years ago.
 
B747forever
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:24 pm

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 18):

Well will see how everything works out, leaving for the airport in about three hours (3:50 am) and have yet to finish packing!
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jetblue777
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:26 am

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 22):
I presume you don't know about the renovations at NAIA Terminal 1? It's much nicer now than 2-3 years ago.

I have been there in 2010 and yes, it was in a much better state compared in 2007. The departure area, I have nothing to complain about. It's the check-in hall, immigration and security and especially the arrivals hall that's looking a little bit shabby. I can't wait til' international airlines move to T3.
It's a cultural thing.
 
Akiestar
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:04 am

Quoting steex (Reply 20):
Having to basically go through security three times to get from cab to plane in T1 is pretty annoying - all items through x-ray/metal detector once to get into the check-in hall, proper security to get into the terminal itself, and once more to get into your specific departure gate.

There's a reason for all those checks:

-At the door: Davao airport bombing in 2003, and probably incidents before then given that the Philippines is a terror-prone country
-After immigration: Standard procedure
-At the gate: Depends on the flight, and normally extra security screening is only practiced on flights to and from the U.S. On all other flights, they just take the boarding pass, and there's no extra security check.

Sure, it's a hassle, but as far as I'm concerned, I'd rather be safe than sorry. If I had to compare, I'd say TLV is even more annoying in this respect than MNL.

Quoting jetblue777 (Reply 24):
I can't wait til' international airlines move to T3.

If the rumors are to be believed, five airlines are moving to NAIA-3 next year.

[Edited 2011-12-19 19:07:16]
 
QantasA333
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:17 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 7):
Ever been to any Australian airports? Try making an International-Domestic transfer in less than a couple of hours  
Quoting BD338 (Reply 8):
What is the "obsession" with Australian airports about putting International and Domestic airports in completely separate Terminals often the opposite side of a runway?

ADL and MEL have both International and Domestic operations in the same terminal. In the case of ADL the International gates are interchangeable between International and Domestic.
 
steex
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:18 am

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 25):
There's a reason for all those checks:

I understand that, but it's still an unfortunate reality. At T1 in particular, they had to shoehorn the first x-ray into the front doors, resulting in a queue outside in the heat to get through. It's sort of the same thing as knocking on MCI for its hub-unfriendly design when it was implemented before security too - it was a fantastic and innovative design at the time, but today's realities make it less than desirable.
 
qf002
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:45 am

Quoting QantasA333 (Reply 26):
ADL and MEL have both International and Domestic operations in the same terminal. In the case of ADL the International gates are interchangeable between International and Domestic.

True, and SYD is headed in a similar direction with their new 2 terminal concept. The sterile division between domestic/international is still confusing though for most visitors, especially those from the US/Europe where domestic/international flights arrive and depart from the same terminals, with common security areas etc.
 
duckbilled
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:22 pm

I have always hated the layout of LAS but I usually in and out of D. If I flew out of a different concourse, I may have a different opinion.

I have only flew in to IAH once but it was one of the worst airport experiences I have ever had. The distance between gates made it almost impossible to make a connection. Upon returning from Cancun, we had 1.5 hours to make our connection to DTW. We missed that flight because they couldn't get our bags off the aircraft in time to clear customs for the connection. There were only a couple baggage claims open and they decided to unload 2 trans Atlantic flights before ours.

I always loved Terminal A at DCA. Easy in and easy out every time. Of course, the Delta terminal at DTW is my favorite. Every gate is easy to get to and if you have to go to concourse B or C, you get a trippy light show. The Westin in the terminal is very convenient airport hotel - good rooms, quiet, tarmac views and a separate security checkpoint in the lobby. Even during really crazy times at DTW, I don't think I have waited more than 15 minutes to get through security. Usually it takes five minutes.
 
babybus
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:24 pm

JED having two terminals at different ends of the airport is a candidate for worst airport. It's a taxi ride if you want to get to the other one.

Not an airport but I'd like to ring up North Terminal at LGW as having terrible layout. You are constantly going up and down stairs all the time (with your luggage). It must have been a layout for a department store before being taken by BAA.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
AlnessW
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:12 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 23):
Well will see how everything works out, leaving for the airport in about three hours (3:50 am) and have yet to finish packing!

Oh dear.  Wow! How did things go?
 
lhr380
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:47 am

Quoting jlarsson (Reply 19):
LHR and CDG are by the length that the universe is wide the worst that exists.

You honestly can not put LHR and CDG in the same bag? LHR has a simple set up, 4 terminals connected by a very frequent airside coach to all terminals and connected to a very good national transport network. T5 is new, T1 3 4 have had refurbishments and a new terminal is being built.

I will put down AMS, but only for the security at gates thing which was a joke.
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DocGATTACA
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:08 pm

ORD can be an absolute horror show for international to domestic connections. I agree tho' that it's fine for domestic connections.

Same goes for IAD International -> Domestic.

Agree with previous posters about CDG, very attractive but just horrible to make connections.

JFK has improved a lot over the years and I quite like CLT.
 
babybus
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:39 pm

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 32):
You honestly can not put LHR and CDG in the same bag?

I think LHR and CDG are both very good airports and very easy to move between terminals. Going through the Flight Connections Centre at LHR might be a pain in the butt due to the queues but after a long haul flight all that standing might be good for you.

CDG is a breeze.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:15 am

Almost ALL airports with seperated terminals are poor when it comes to layout.

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 32):
I will put down AMS, but only for the security at gates thing which was a joke.

I agree! Also the runway layout and use is terrible as well.
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1337Delta764
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:52 am

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 35):
Almost ALL airports with seperated terminals are poor when it comes to layout.

Typically, such a layout is designed for O&D, not for connecting passengers.
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blink182
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:16 pm

Quoting planejamie (Reply 4):
I agree with part of that, but from a passenger perspective, the terminals were very easy to get between (unless you were on a commuter aircraft) and transfer from International to Domestic was pain free and quiet too!

I disagree about PHL. Is there a method to the madness in the way the concourses are arranged? Yes, but the corridors and concourses are narrow. Even with the occasional moving walkway, there's just no short way to connect through. International arrival and departures entail walking, walking, walking, and more walking if you're lucky. All of my connections through PHL have resulted in a sprint to make my next flight. US needs to understand that fifteen or twenty minutes between domestic flights and thirty minutes from international-domestic cuts it uncomfortably close.

Quoting duckbilled (Reply 29):
I have only flew in to IAH once but it was one of the worst airport experiences I have ever had.

I find that IAH is fine in terms of amenities, but I agree that the airport's layout is very confusing.

I'll add FRA, an otherwise impressive airport, to this list with its seemingly endless array of corridors, escalators, and occasionally poor signage.
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ben175
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:41 pm

PER without a doubt... until recently it was a 15 minute taxi ride between the international and domestic terminals! When you board flights at Terminal 1 - you have to lug your carry-on bags down two sets of stairs to reach the jet bridge... the QF domestic terminal is pretty much a joke. Everything is congested and poorly planned and the shabby investment to upgrade the facilities isn't going to help at all in 10 years.
 
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DesertFlyer
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:50 pm

Quoting blink182 (Reply 37):
I'll add FRA, an otherwise impressive airport, to this list with its seemingly endless array of corridors, escalators, and occasionally poor signage.

I'm shocked it took someone so long to mention FRA. It is laid out in a very odd way that usually involves a significant amount of walking and bus rides between flights.
 
USAirALB
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:11 am

While I love CLT and usually connecting at CLT is rather simple, although the airport layout was not designed for people with 30 minute connections, which are becoming increasingly common at CLT these days. A walk from A12 to E38 takes at least 15 minutes, and a walk from B16 to E38 may take even 20 minutes. Factor that in with a trip to the loo, and it may be too late. And, when going to Concourse E, one must go down the escalator/stairs/elevator to reach the Concourse, so you must factor that in as well. They keep expanding Concourse E each year. The signs throughout Concourse E now point to gate "E40-E50", so it is only going to get worse.

I think they should develop some bus system in CLT like they have at PHL.
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jlarsson
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:32 pm

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 32):
You honestly can not put LHR and CDG in the same bag? LHR has a simple set up, 4 terminals connected by a very frequent airside coach to all terminals and connected to a very good national transport network. T5 is new, T1 3 4 have had refurbishments and a new terminal is being built.




Sorry. I just did.
I will gladly spend € 250 more on a ticket just to avoid LHR & CDG.
Layout wise and the way those 2 airports are run is a disgrace.

They should both learn from ORD & YVR

Merry Christmas to all fellow plane geeks.

jlarsson
Next trip; ARN-FRA-YYC-YVR-SEA-ORD-BOS-MUC-GOT.
 
lhr380
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:31 pm

Quoting jlarsson (Reply 41):
Layout wise and the way those 2 airports are run is a disgrace.

Why? Plent of transport between the terminals both airside and landside? T5 is superb, T1 T4 T3 have gone thru refurbishment. Security and connections centres in all terminals have been refurbished and there is more capacity. When did you last fly out of LHR?
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:40 am

I dont like those airports that have a long transit corridor between two terminals. It's not that easy to find one with poor signages.

SYD is a WASTE TIME! After I arrive in the domestic terminal, then transfer to the international terminal by bus. No problem with waiting for the bus - it takes every 15 mins. But the problem is that we have to keep waiting for the planes to move quickly at the airside otherwise I will miss the plane. I enjoyed watching planes around the airport though!
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Checo77
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RE: Airports With Poor Layouts

Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:39 am

Worst? Without a doubt CDG and FRA!

Best? AMS and ATL.

Adam
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