727LOVER
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Runway Ops At CLT, MIA, DFW, IAH.......

Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:59 pm

Some airports have parallel only.....LAX, MCO, ATL

Some have runways that are roughly 90°...SFO, LGA, JFK, DEN


But then there are those that have mostly parallel, but one or two that are greater or less than 90°......CLT, MIA, IAH, DFW......DTW too, but I dont thi.k those extra two are really used.

and ORD?....good Lord, what a mess!!

Anyway, my question is......taking MIA as an example:

Is runway 30 ONLY used with 26s & 27? Theoretically, with precise certain wind conditions, it could be used with 8s & 9. Is this ever done? Or is it too much of an ATC headache? What if the wind is whipping around 25mph, gusting to 40............then what?

Same question for CLT, IAH & DFW.......& any other airport that fits in this category.
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flymia
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RE: Runway Ops At CLT, MIA, DFW, IAH.......

Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:37 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
Is runway 30 ONLY used with 26s & 27? Theoretically, with precise certain wind conditions, it could be used with 8s & 9. Is this ever done? Or is it too much of an ATC headache? What if the wind is whipping around 25mph, gusting to 40............then what?

I am no ATC and I have never flown myself into MIA but from my experience watching planes land on a calm wind day you can have planes landing and taking off of lets say 26s and 27 along with 30 and 8s with 9 and 12. I remember coming in from LHR about two years ago my plane landed on 9 but we had to hold for two landings and a takeoff on 12.

Winds in MIA rarely come from the North and South but when they do I am sure they try to get aircraft on the crossing runway when possible, probably more for small airplanes but airline pilots are good, they can handle heavy cross winds, sometimes they just wont have a choice.
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727LOVER
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RE: Runway Ops At CLT, MIA, DFW, IAH.......

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:11 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 1):

Sorry, but I think u have misunderstood my question.

Can 8s & 9 be used with 30, can 26s & 27 be used with 12?

In other words, can the non-parallel be used in the reverse direction than normally used with the related parallels.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Runway Ops At CLT, MIA, DFW, IAH.......

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:13 pm

CLT uses 5/23 pretty much exclusively for south flow arrivals, but it seems to be used much less since 18R/36L opened. The advantage of landing 23 in the old configuration was that 18L could be used exclusively for departures, but now they typically use 18R exclusively for arrivals, 18C exclusively for departures, and 18L for a mix that depends on where in the bank they are (mostly arrivals toward the beginning of the bank; mostly departures toward the end of the bank) so they have an exclusive arrival runway and an exclusive departure runway without using 5/23. I've not landed on 23 since the new runway opened, but I also don't live in Charlotte anymore.
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727LOVER
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RE: Runway Ops At CLT, MIA, DFW, IAH.......

Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:14 pm

I just remembered, at IAH I HAVE seen 15s used with 26s & 27
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flymia
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RE: Runway Ops At CLT, MIA, DFW, IAH.......

Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:42 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 2):

Got it. I have never seen them use the runway like that. But this is an interesting question. I am guessing no but lets see if anyone else has a better answer you knows a bit more.
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e38
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RE: Runway Ops At CLT, MIA, DFW, IAH.......

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:38 am

727LOVER, here are some operational observations:

At DFW, when the airport is on a "south flow" operation, it is very common for aircraft to land on Runway 13R when arriving from the northwest (Bowie--UKW--arrival). In the past, Runway 13L was commonly used for turboprop departures; however, in the last couple of weeks, since American Eagle discontinued flying the ATR-72 out of DFW, departures off of 13L are much less common. Reference departures off of 13L with flight operations at Dallas Love Field.

When on a "north flow" operation, aircraft occasionally land on 31R, but not very much. For the most part, Runway 35R is used to absorb overflow operations, instead of Runway 31R. For departures, 31L is used periodically, but as the case similar to 13L, it was used mostly for prop/turboprop operations. I haven't seen much departure activity on 31L since February 1. You might pose this question to KC135TopBoom as I think he works out at DFW.

At Houston (IAH), when the winds are from the south/southwest or light out of the west, the normal configuration is to conduct arrivals on 26L/R and 27 and departures off of 15L/R. This deconflicts departures from arrivals and is a standard configuration.

DTW rarely uses Runways 9/27 because it seriously disrupts ground operations, particularly Runway 9L/27R. When using this runway, there is considerable potential for runway incursion issues, and under normal circumstances, 9L/27R is customarily used as a taxiway. Runway 9R/27L is generally used only when the winds are so strong out of the west that they exceed aircraft crosswind limitations for landing on 22R or 21L. At DTW, departures off of 22L/21R with arrivals on 22R/21L by far provide the smoothest, most consistent operation.

At CLT, the only time I have seen Runway 5/23 used consistently is for late night flights for noise abatement purposes. I have also seen it used when aircraft needed the longest available runway for takeoff (due to weight/climb limitations).

and finally, with reference to your comment, "and ORD?....good Lord, what a mess!!"

Well, you're right, there are a lot of runways, but my experience has been that the ground controllers and local (tower) controllers at ORD are absolutely the finest in the world. They take the complexity of the runway alignment and choreograph flight operations among them like a fine ballet. It is absolutely impressive.

Hope this helps.

e38
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Runway Ops At CLT, MIA, DFW, IAH.......

Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:05 pm

Quoting e38 (Reply 6):
I have also seen it used when aircraft needed the longest available runway for takeoff (due to weight/climb limitations).

It has been at least 15 years since 5/23 was the longest runway at CLT.
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e38
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RE: Runway Ops At CLT, MIA, DFW, IAH.......

Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:47 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7), "It has been at least 15 years since 5/23 was the longest runway at CLT."

I stand corrected!

When I wrote that post about aircraft needing the longest runway due to weight/climb limitations, I was actually thinking about Nashville airport (KBNA), another airport that has three parallel runways and a "cross" runway.

At Nashville, I have only seen the cross runway (Runway 13/31) used in unusual circumstances of operational requirement. Otherwise, it seems like most operations at Nashville are on the three parallel runways (02L/C/R and 20L/C/R). The interesting thing with this airport is that the cross runway (13/31) is the longest runway at the airport.

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Cubsrule
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RE: Runway Ops At CLT, MIA, DFW, IAH.......

Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:05 pm

Quoting e38 (Reply 8):
At Nashville, I have only seen the cross runway (Runway 13/31) used in unusual circumstances of operational requirement.

That was true for a long time. Lately, they've been using 31 a lot more for arrivals and used 13 some for departures as well. Some months, I'd say my arrivals are pretty evenly split between one of the 20s, one of the 2s and 31. Arrivals from Florida and ATL are (not surprisingly) the most likely to use 31, but in the past year or so, I've arrived on 31 from places like MDW as well.
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