Ps76
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Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:27 am

Hi!

I haven't been into aviation for too long but one of the livery changes I noticed as quite large was when Delta went from the 3 colors flag-like livery to their current one. My question is really aimed at people who've flown Delta before and after and remember how much they paid for tickets and what they got for them in terms of quality. Do you think the last livery change was a good move and the new Delta is stronger or do you prefer the flag-like one and the service they used to offer.


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Photo © Michael Frische



Any opinions welcome.

Many thanks,

Pierre

Mod Edit: Please use the thumbnail feature for posting photos from the A.net DB.

[Edited 2012-06-10 04:44:14 by srbmod]
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:36 am

To be honest, I think most the people that care or notice livery changes are us. The change from the widget to the Ron Allen scheme and from that to the Deltaflot one were kind of random, but the newest livery actually made sense IMO--reemerging as a new, vitalized carrier. From that they were able to build a new, fresh brand off of. That's just my opinion at least, kinda wish they had the old widget livery still but this one is very nice
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plateman
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:53 am

Wait, what? You think an airline is connected to their paintjob. I fail to see how service is linked to a paintjob.

So if I was on a wavy gravy jet, I would have different service than on a widget jet?
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peanuts
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:57 am

The current livery is very well thought out. It's done so by study and design.

A few of the things it tells us (of course opinions differ but we are speaking generally here):
-renewed focus
-clean
-safe
-punctual
-more efficiency/less clutter/waste
-professional


Old (wavy gravy/deltaflot) livery tells us:
-look at us: unorganized mess we are.

Does a change of image help? You bet!

Also remember: along with the paint job came everything else. It all came together pretty nicely.

[Edited 2012-06-09 20:24:12]
 
CapEd388
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:17 am

Yeah I think the change to the current livery was justified and understandable. They announced the new livery as soon as they emerged from Chapter 11, It was the "new" fresh, leaner and meaner Delta. It celebrated their exit, from a very rough and hectic period, the Chapter 11 reorganization period.

Personally, I like it. Not only the livery, but the entire brand package that they introduced, it is very professional, modern and elegant. I think that they did a great job of celebrating their rise from the ashes in a very humble and classy way.

I have read many graphic design people say very good things about the rebrand.

I am a frequent visitor to a brand and identity website called Brand New, and they have covered various airline rebrands such as Air France, Virgin Atlantic, Aerolineas Argentinas etc. On almost all the airline livery rebrands, they have negative comments. The Delta rebrand received very positive reviews, the author praised the rebrand (and these are people that are really picky about logos, colors, symbols, fonts etc.)

Its a pretty cool website, I have always been fascinated by brands, logo designs etc.

Heres their coverage of Delta:

http://www.underconsideration.com/br...chives/delta_dealt_a_good_hand.php
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rwy04lga
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:24 am

Just out of curiosity, why did you choose that particular photo of the 777? It's the homepage photo on Delta's internal website.
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Wingtips56
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:32 am

My only thought is that the widget on the tail doesn't really work because it's tipped at an angle and chopped-off, so it's not necessarily recognizable as Delta's nice triangle. And of course the plain white plane .... but that's another whole round of arguments.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
 
peanuts
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:45 am

The blue paint on the bottom of fuselage is simply amazing and fairly unique in shape I believe. U can recognize a DL plane high in the sky from the ground.
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:46 am

Quoting peanuts (Reply 3):
The current livery is very well thought out. It's done so by study and design.

Study of what? The Citgo Logo?

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 6):
My only thought is that the widget on the tail doesn't really work because it's tipped at an angle and chopped-off


Yes, it's basically the Citgo logo tilted to one side and chopped off.

LoneStarMike
 
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:48 am

I quite like the new livery, it really does say that we are improved and on the way up (as compared to ch.11). I think the navy belly is a cleaner look than the grey belly. The widget on the tail is kind of angled up so looks positive.
 
peanuts
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:00 am

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 8):
The Citgo Logo

Get over yourself. The Citgo red Trimark has been around since 1965.
Delta has been using a form of delta shape since way before that.
 
bomber996
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:10 am

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 8):
Yes, it's basically the Citgo logo tilted to one side and chopped off.

They look nothing alike except for the whole triangle thing. We could say that all Delta planes are advertising the logo for Bass Beer. It is using the same logic after all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_Brewery

Peace   
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ocracoke
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:15 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 5):
Just out of curiosity, why did you choose that particular photo of the 777? It's the homepage photo on Delta's internal website.

Why are all the windows underneath "DELTA" missing?
 
PanAm788
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:17 am

Quoting plateman (Reply 2):
Wait, what? You think an airline is connected to their paintjob. I fail to see how service is linked to a paintjob.

So if I was on a wavy gravy jet, I would have different service than on a widget jet?

Marketing and brand image are incredibly important for a business. Especially in a highly competitive market such as the airline industry. Delta would not be one of the largest airlines in the world today if it wasn't for their marketing efforts.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 10):
Get over yourself. The Citgo red Trimark has been around since 1965.
Delta has been using a form of delta shape since way before that.

The Delta widget is older than the Citgo triangle. It's just that the new livery's modified widget looks a lot more like the Citgo brand than the older widgets.

I think Delta's recent marketing efforts have been outstanding. They are without a doubt the best positioned of any of the majors.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 3):
A few of the things it tells us (of course opinions differ but we are speaking generally here):
-renewed focus
-clean
-safe
-punctual
-more efficiency/less clutter/waste
-professional

In the sense we are comparing it to the old "Deltaflot" image, I completely agree with this.

As for the livery itself, I prefer the classic Delta colors (pre-Ron Allen), although the current one is a huge step up from the awful Deltaflot scheme.
You know nothing Jon Snow
 
HPRamper
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:20 am

The best thing about the current DL livery is that it is on all their planes.

Prior to this one, it was common to see three different liveries at a single airport on a single day.
 
alggag
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:31 am

Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 13):
I think Delta's recent marketing efforts have been outstanding. They are without a doubt the best positioned of any of the majors.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 3):
A few of the things it tells us (of course opinions differ but we are speaking generally here):
-renewed focus
-clean
-safe
-punctual
-more efficiency/less clutter/waste
-professional

In the sense we are comparing it to the old "Deltaflot" image, I completely agree with this.

I'd say that the new paint job helped. I hate to admit that marketing works but in this case when I see DL's current scheme the above points do indeed come to mind. Also, after the NW merger I think it was important for them to form a new image going forward as a stronger, merged airline. Along those lines, I think UA dropped the ball by adopting CO's scheme - a merger of that size needs a new image to drive home the point that the two airlines came together to form a better airline. While you can argue that their decision is wise and thrifty, I see it as just cheap and lazy.

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 11):
They look nothing alike except for the whole triangle thing. We could say that all Delta planes are advertising the logo for Bass Beer. It is using the same logic after all.

Well, Bass is my favorite beer so perhaps I just have an affinity for triangles.  
 
CapEd388
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:40 am

Quoting alggag (Reply 15):
. Also, after the NW merger I think it was important for them to form a new image going forward as a stronger, merged airline.

Delta already had the new livery by the time of the merger. Delta unveiled their new livery in April 2007 and the merger was announced in March 2008.

Quoting alggag (Reply 15):
I think UA dropped the ball by adopting CO's scheme - a merger of that size needs a new image to drive home the point that the two airlines came together to form a better airline. While you can argue that their decision is wise and thrifty, I see it as just cheap and lazy.

Although I kind of agree with you, financially speaking, they made the right choice. Mergers are expensive enough without having the added cost of developing a whole new identity, painting both fleets in a new livery and changing the signage at all CO and UA stations.

Who knows, maybe they will develop a new/updated brand once the merger is complete.
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:51 am

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 8):


Yes, it's basically the Citgo logo tilted to one side and chopped off.

No, it's still the Widget, just all red, now.........the only similarity to the Citgo logo is the shape and even at that, it's not the same triangle shape. Personally, being an old timer from DL, I'd rather see the other widget (it would still work with the rest of the current color scheme) but this livery has grown on me........I really disliked it at first.
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ericaasen
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:55 am

Quoting ocracoke (Reply 12):
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 5):
Just out of curiosity, why did you choose that particular photo of the 777? It's the homepage photo on Delta's internal website.

Why are all the windows underneath "DELTA" missing?

Because it's probably the worst photoshopped picture I've ever seen. Too bad I have to see it everyday. We seriously couldn't fly a plane with the new livery over some mountains and take another picture, we have to photoshop one in the library?
 
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:06 am

Quoting peanuts (Reply 3):

I'm going to be the stick in the mud here. The classic widget DL livery was timeless and conveys the airline at it's peak.

The interim, the wavy Gravy are not bad but why mess with a good thing. In this case they should have kept the change. The current livery is generic. The letters are not big enough and the all white is quite stark. The tail design is not too bad. But, with this stark livery on the fuselage any of the tail designs would suffice. Whether it be the widget classic, W.Gravy, interim pre Gravy or the current stylized widget tail design. All this change convey's to me an organization that is not sure of itself and basically throwing up a dozen balls juggeling them and seeing which one lands where and had the most positve effect.


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Luis H Aular
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Photo © Thomas Brackx


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Photo © Frank Schaefer
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Photo © Christopher Liao


my rankings:
1. pic 3 the timeless widget classic. Should have kept it.
2. pic 2 the Interim, if DL had to change this was the least objectionable
3. pics 3 and 4 are equally mediocre. I say if they want to keep this livery inflate the letters and widget on the side banner style like Pan Am toward the end of their tenure.

This society is trying to be so homoginized and boring. A conveyer belt of conformity.
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Burj
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:36 am

One key thing to remember about the currently Delta livery is that when it was first leaked many people realized that Delta was going to make a go for NorthWest...

The angled widget was just too reminiscent of the angled triangle on the NorthWest livery.....
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:40 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 19):
All this change convey's to me an organization that is not sure of itself and basically throwing up a dozen balls juggeling them and seeing which one lands where and had the most positve effect.

Maybe yes for the three liveries in three years (I know, I know), but I think the post Ch11 livery has done away with this chopping and changing image.

I generally agree with the list compiled by Peanuts: the new livery symbolises the rebirth of the airline with all those positive qualities and without the "baggage" of the past. Whether that's true or not, it's a master-stroke of planning.


The only other livery I can think of in recent which says the same is PMCO. While the globe may or may not be the best logo for UA (that's for another thread), in 1995 it practically screamed that CO under Bethune was a different airline (even though it did predate his tenure)
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
joeytaffy93
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:54 am

I personally really like Deltas current - livery, fresh, modern, simple but yet not boring like the current Eurowhite ones going about. Finnair comes to mind.
 
steex
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:56 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 21):

Maybe yes for the three liveries in three years (I know, I know), but I think the post Ch11 livery has done away with this chopping and changing image.

I generally agree with the list compiled by Peanuts: the new livery symbolises the rebirth of the airline with all those positive qualities and without the "baggage" of the past. Whether that's true or not, it's a master-stroke of planning.

I agree. It's also noteworthy that the current livery is the first one in a long time where DL has actually made the commitment to get all of the fleet repainted to have a singular, strong brand image. There were times in the mid-00s where you could find three or more DL liveries floating around DL hubs, which made it much harder to present a consistent brand.

I personally find the current DL livery to be very clean, professional, and modern in appearance. I didn't initially care for the tails, but the use of negative space has really grown on me. I actually prefer it to any livery DL had in the past; I think the old widget liveries look very much the part of their eras. I think those older liveries would look completely outdated if the whole fleet were painted in them today. But, of course, that's all purely opinion and everyone's will be different.
 
joeytaffy93
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:02 am

Quoting steex (Reply 23):
I personally find the current DL livery to be very clean, professional, and modern in appearance. I didn't initially care for the tails, but the use of negative space has really grown on me. I actually prefer it to any livery DL had in the past; I think the old widget liveries look very much the part of their eras. I think those older liveries would look completely outdated if the whole fleet were painted in them today. But, of course, that's all purely opinion and everyone's will be different.

Exactly what I was thinking. I like the use of the darker blue colours and the shade of red on the tail works well.  
 
N243NW
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:07 am

Quoting peanuts (Reply 3):
The current livery is very well thought out. It's done so by study and design.

Agreed wholeheartedly. It's a very clean and professional look, and I can't think of a single aircraft type on which it doesn't look good.

Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 13):
I think Delta's recent marketing efforts have been outstanding. They are without a doubt the best positioned of any of the majors.

  

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 14):
Prior to this one, it was common to see three different liveries at a single airport on a single day.

Don't forget Song, back when the LCC existed! 
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m404
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:07 am

Liveries only mean something to the people who design them and the people who paid them.

I doubt if anyone at DL can prove that any of their multiple schemes have mad a nickels difference. I actually was happy to see that when they ingested Northwest they did not folllow the pattern of so many other carriers mergers and didn't jump at the chance to change again. I can vaugly imagine that a uniform change can add some pride in performance in employees but that's about it. Who wants to perform in public in torn and outdated (if they ever were "in") uniforms. A newly painted plane in the same scheme can show pride and proper upkeep but no more. This is why airlines usually say they are painting the new scheme only during the aircrafts regular maintanance schedule. It used to be that you could save money with less paint but that is no longer so with composites so their is another reason to not bother. We've seen several examples over the years of carriers who knew they needed help building ridership desperatly (TWA) but a paint job just didn't do it.
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Yukon880
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:04 am

More than just another livery, Delta has (and is) creating a consistent and globally recognized brand. Regardless of my own personal opinions of the current scheme, which differ from a great many of you, the Delta Brand has never been stronger. The fact that the Widget has returned to a position of importance in marketing and in this current livery, is a tribute to a point in history where the symbol of the company really mattered. The Widget comes from a time when Delta was preparing to enter the Jet-age and desired to present (with a company trademark) a progressive and upwardly mobile airline. And it seems that even today, the Widget makes the same representation.

Together with the "brand," of course!
Pratt & Whitney, In thrust we trust!
 
CapEd388
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:19 am

Regardless of how many of you feel, this livery has been great for Delta.

As has been pointed out before, for the first time in many years, Delta has a consistent and strong brand identity that represents a stronger company.

I believe that right now, Delta is the strongest and most stable legacy carrier and probably will be for the next few years. UA is still going through the merger process (which has been kind of messy), AA is in Chap. 11 and US is doing ok.

Delta is a great example of a company that made good use of Chap. 11 and came out stronger and better.

In 2005, Delta was in a similar position that AA is in right now. Then in 2007, the came out of chapter 11, they got back on their feet, started growing back steadily. Then almost a year later after exiting Chap 11, they merged with NW and now look at them, they are a strong, consistent and stable carrier. The brand definitely represents that.

It might not be the most interesting of liveries or the most flashiest, but I think if you look past the livery and look at the background and struggle that Delta went through the 2005-2007 period, you learn to appreciate the livery for what it is, a celebration of a new company that stands stronger than its past.

Like I said before, I applaud the way they handled the rebrand. They could have easily gone for a flashy "look at us" livery.

Instead, Delta chose a livery that celebrated the "new" company in a professional, elegant, classy and humble manner.
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aerokiwi
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:55 am

Wow this is a whole lot of gushing for an exceptionally bland livery. Particularly...

Quoting peanuts (Reply 7):
The blue paint on the bottom of fuselage is simply amazing and fairly unique in shape I believe.

"Simply amazing"? Are you taking the mickey? It's barely noticeable and even then... meh.

Yes it's nice that they've managed to pick one and stick with it, but it's almost so bland that it could be one of those movie airlines - "Inter-Global Airlines" - or some such blah.

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 9):
I think the navy belly is a cleaner look than the grey belly

This, I agree with. The silver belly on the wavy gravy made the whole thing look unfinished. Now that was a hot mess of a livery.
 
Ps76
Topic Author
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:11 pm

Hi!

Many thanks for the replies. It was interesting reading your opinions. I know some people won't agree with me but personally I think the image of a company so public such as an airline is very important to how the company runs. What would happen for example if McDonalds changed their M? It would change a lot as I think it affects not only how the customer sees the company but also how employees see their company and subsequently how well they work linked to how happy they are. For me I didn't like Delta's last move too much as I don't really like the livery that much, but when I saw the website and the advertising and graphics that are at their airports they became a lot more appealing as an airline. Of course there are other factors as well as branding, and I think the most important one is ticket price probably in the airline industry. Most people just go for the cheapest direct fare and couldn't care less about what the graphics or livery looks like.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 5):

Just out of curiosity, why did you choose that particular photo of the 777? It's the homepage photo on Delta's internal website.

I just found the photo from a google image search. I thought it looked nice because of the mountains.

Anyway many thanks again for the opinions. Now I'm off to fly a new Delta aircraft in flightsim!

Many thanks,

Pierre

[Edited 2012-06-10 05:13:29]
 
steex
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:06 pm

Quoting m404 (Reply 26):
I doubt if anyone at DL can prove that any of their multiple schemes have mad a nickels difference.
Quoting Ps76 (Reply 30):
Of course there are other factors as well as branding, and I think the most important one is ticket price probably in the airline industry. Most people just go for the cheapest direct fare and couldn't care less about what the graphics or livery looks like.

Ticket price is, of course, very important. I imagine m404 is correct in that it would be virtually impossible to prove/quantify a specific fiscal impact of the livery. However, the livery is an important part of building an overall consistent brand. The idea isn't that people about to get on a plane generally care what it looks like specifically, but rather that the people recognize the plane is Delta and associate that with their flying experience.

In that sense, having the planes present a consistent brand is a part of your marketing. When passengers at a major hub see 50+ planes in the same exact livery at the same time, they notice the strength of the carrier and make the subconscious connection that the airline must be able to take them a lot of places. Since most people aren't really taking time to truly look at the planes in detail, this potential benefit can be lost if your planes are in two or three liveries.

The same can be true at busy non-hub stations, which is actually where it makes the most difference (let's face it, people in ATL don't need to see DL's planes to know they fly everywhere). I'm an STL-based flyer and I can tell you that a lot of people have noticed that the area around Concourse A is littered with DL RONs and DL's gates are packed. They notice the branding on the gates as they have to walk half way down Conc A before they see a gate that belongs to someone other than DL (the concourse also houses UA, US, AC). In the ticketing area, Delta now is often the busiest counter, and actually has split its location with SkyPriority at the former NW counter. Even people who are not aviation aficionados take note of all these things, and it helps raise awareness of DL's services in a way that it could not if they weren't presenting a strong, consistent brand image in every facet of their business.
 
tommy767
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RE: Do You Think Delta's Last Livery Change Helped

Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:07 pm

At first in 2007 when I first saw this branding on a NYC subway train, I was skeptical and certainly wasn't convinced. However this was before DL started making some major moves to change their image and product offering. Back then they were still using plastic silverware up in F class on domestic flights. Over time, this new brand image has evolved IMHO, magnificently. Everything from the B&W subway ad's to the new Sky Clubs, I think DL has found the right niche campaign wise.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 19):

I think it was because the Widget scheme was in REALLY bad shape on quite a few of the planes circa 1999-2001 (like Battleship UA scheme circa 2009.) DL was kind of like PMUA in the respect that they weren't painting the Wavy Gravy fast enough, had a small amount of Ron Allen's they didn't re-paint and kept around and also had the Widget scheme chipping away (and for a little while, SONG scheme as well.) It was just all over the place until they finally rebranded the company in 2007-2008

That said, at it's peak I think the DL widget is my favorite scheme of all time.
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