kaitak
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The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:13 pm

I was just wondering, in this age where we have so much recording ability - so many different parameters of aircraft performance, if there were any air disasters which remain a mystery. We know, of course, that there are still disasters where today's technology was simply not available - for example the BEA Staines crash, where there was no CVR.

However, there are still a few where there is hardly anything known, beyond the fact that the aircraft has crashed.

1) Varig 707, over the Pacific. 1979. In January 1979, a cargo 707 took off from NRT (very shortly after its opening) and disappeared around 200 miles NE of Tokyo. It was carrying a cargo of paintings (153 of one renowned artist) to Rio. No trace of the aircraft was ever found.

2) Malev 240. A Tu-154 with 60 on board crashed off the Lebanese coast, while en route from BUD to BEY in Sept 1975. No official statement has ever been made and its cause has never been known; to this day, the Hungarian secret service produced a report in 2003, but as reported in an answer to a question to the European parliament in 2007, the report remains secret for reasons not connected with the crash.

Does anyone know anything about the latter crash (particularly our Hungarian members)?

Are there any other crashes which are still shrouded in mystery?
 
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N14AZ
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
Are there any other crashes which are still shrouded in mystery?

What about that Italian DC 9 that disapeared over the Mediterranean Sea?
 
northstardc4m
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:20 pm

South African 295 springs to mind...?

The 2 BSAA Tudor crashes...
Star Ariel and Star Tiger
both vanished over the Atlantic less than a year apart and doomed the Avro Tudor. Never been found.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
EY460
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:22 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 1):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerolinee_Itavia_Flight_870

So many covers up at all levels. We will never know the truth.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:06 pm

There were several Connies that were lost over oceans and never found and causes never determined.

USN WV-2 (L-1049) lost between the Azores and Newfoundland.

Flying Tiger-749, an L-1049H lost over the Pacific.

Panair do Brasil, an L-049 crashed into a jungle and no cause was determined.

An AF L-1649A exploded over the Sahara Desert for no apparent reason.
 
AR385
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:22 pm

The Arrow Air DC-8 that crashed on take off at Gander. I believe there was a disenting opinion from one or two members of Canadian board that had a different theory for the cause. Ammunition going off in the hold, if I recall correctly. Although the official cause was icing, wasn´t it?
 
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Stitch
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:56 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 5):
Although the official cause was icing, wasn´t it?

There were two official reports by the Canadian Aviation Safety Board: one written by the majority (five members) that said it was ice and one written by the minority (four members), who said it was due to an onboard fire in the cargo hold, perhaps caused by a magnesium flare. A later review concluded that the available evidence did not support either report.
 
AR385
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:04 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
There were two official reports by the Canadian Aviation Safety Board: one written by the majority (five members) that said it was ice and one written by the minority (four members), who said it was due to an onboard fire in the cargo hold, perhaps caused by a magnesium flare. A later review concluded that the available evidence did not support either report.

Thanks. I did not recall all that detail you just provided.
 
tonystan
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:31 am

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
Are there any other crashes which are still shrouded in mystery?

Kaitak, Im surprised at you for not mentioning this one.....

What about Aer Lingus 712 that disappeared near Tuskar Rock! That is one of the most endearing ones in my mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aer_Lingus_Flight_712
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stasisLAX
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:33 am

On November 16, 1959, National Airlines Flight 967, en route from Tampa, FL to New Orleans, LA disappeared over the Gulf of Mexico. The aircraft was a Delta Air Lines DC-7B being flown on an interchange route with Delta, but staffed with a National Airlines crew. No cause was ever officially determined, but many at that time thought that a in-flight explosion/bombing took place.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
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zippyjet
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:53 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 9):

Wasn't this around the same time as the DC-6 National Airlines flight that exploded over New Bolivia N.C. as it was en route from what was then Idlewild to MIA? That one was a bomb explosion for insurance money.

How about one of the greatest tragedies? TWA 800. There's still speculation of a bomb, missle strike and of course the rank and file cause fuel tanks exploding.
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connies4ever
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:53 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 5):
The Arrow Air DC-8 that crashed on take off at Gander. I believe there was a disenting opinion from one or two members of Canadian board that had a different theory for the cause. Ammunition going off in the hold, if I recall correctly. Although the official cause was icing, wasn´t it?

My late father was an AC AME authorised to service the 8 His opinion on Arrow Air was inadvertent thrust reverser deployment. Possible icing component involved as well. But there was ammunition going off post crash, for sure.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
maxpower1954
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:55 am

Two Northwest flights crashed that remain unsolved to this day - a Martin 202 in Washington state in 1951 and a DC-7C on a MAC charter in 1963 that crashed in the Pacific with the loss of all 101 on board.
 
vincewy
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:09 am

1. KE 007 (1983) shot down near Sakhalin Island. To this day, some still believe there were survivors but kept in Russia
2. SA 295 (1987) crashed near Mauritius due to fire, the question is where did fire come from?
 
heathrow
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:36 am

One could argue TWA 800 belongs on this list
 
PHX787
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:40 am

Quoting heathrow (Reply 14):
One could argue TWA 800 belongs on this list

Agreed there.
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kaitak
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:49 am

Quoting tonystan (Reply 8):
Kaitak, Im surprised at you for not mentioning this one.....

What about Aer Lingus 712 that disappeared near Tuskar Rock! That is one of the most endearing ones in my mind.

I didn't think that was a mystery anymore; I did think about it, but I thought it was now accepted that it was due to structural failure.

Quoting vincewy (Reply 13):
2. SA 295 (1987) crashed near Mauritius due to fire, the question is where did fire come from?

If the Nat Geog programme can be believed, it started in packaging in the main deck cargo area.

Quoting heathrow (Reply 14):
One could argue TWA 800 belongs on this list

Why? The cause has been determined to have been vapours in the central fuel tank which exploded; I know there are conspiracy theories, but I don't think any holds water. I wouldn't rate the cause of this as a mystery.
 
Independence76
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:04 am

Wouldn't Air France 447 be rated among these, as well as 737-200/300 accidents associated with the faulty Parker-Hannifin rudder component?
 
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N14AZ
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:39 am

Quoting vincewy (Reply 13):
1. KE 007 (1983) shot down near Sakhalin Island. To this day, some still believe there were survivors but kept in Russia

I don't agree that KE007 is a mistery. This is just a conspiracy theory, since for almost all major crashes there is at least one conspiracy theory.

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 17):
Wouldn't Air France 447 be rated among these

Only to the extent that there is still no clear explanation of why the PF made the control inputs he made. The crash itself is maybe the best documented crash at all.
 
EY460
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:27 am

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 17):



These accidents have been a mystery for a while, but now everything has been explained. In the case of AF447, I personally believed that they could have not solved the mystery but I was wrong. The discussion is now if it was only the pilot's fault or if the design of the cockpit contributed to the disaster too, but, technically, we know exactly what happened. The same for the 737 accidents caused by the rudder actuator. They remained mysteries for years but now it is clear what caused the accident.

There is the Silk Air 737 crash and since the CVR was off at the moment of the accident, both rudder problem and pilot suicide cannot be ruled out.
 
PHX787
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:27 am

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 17):
Wouldn't Air France 447 be rated among these,

Wasn't too much of a mystery besides why the pilot flying was climbing instead of keeping level.
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shnoob940
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:08 am

Egypt Air 990 is mysterious, they never agreed on the cause.
A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A359 A388 733 734 735 737 738 739 743 744 762 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E170 E190 Q400 AT7 DH
 
Flobo3
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:33 am

I would add swissair flight 111 that crashed near Gander in 1998 ... because they never recovered the 500 million canadian dollar worth diamond treasure from the cargo hold  
 
PanHAM
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:35 am

Quoting shnoob940 (Reply 22):
Egypt Air 990 is mysterious, they never agreed on the cause.

...or political reasons. The cause is pretty obvious, suicide by the FO PF.

Quoting vincewy (Reply 13):
2. SA 295 (1987) crashed near Mauritius due to fire, the question is where did fire come from?

undeclared DG igniting during flight. The origin was TPE if I'm not mistaken. happens quite regularly on container vessels BTW, especially coming from that region.
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okay
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:05 am

The mystery of Kaleva, Ju-52 operated by Aero, the predecessor of Finnair. in June 1940, the plane was shot down en route from Tallin to Helsinki by the Soviets, and no official reason has ever been given. The Soviets denied ever shooting down Kaleva, but the incident was added to the Paris Peace Treaty signed by Finland and the Soviet Union, freeing Soviet Union from any responsibility concerning the shoot down. The documents about the shooting have disapeared or distroeyed after the Soviet fall-down. Thus, only assumptions can be given for the reasons why this commercial flight was targeted.


Kaleva shoot down

okAY
 
727LOVER
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:25 am

How about the Pan Am 727-100 over East Germany 1966-----shot down???
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PanHAM
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:35 am

PA708 - since the Soviets did not allow a US team to investigate at the vcrash site the reason for the crash could never be established. The Soviets did not return all the material, like the engines, flight recorder etc. Cause for the accident might have been CFIT. Also, THF was closed at that time and pilots might have been unfamiliar with TXL.
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na
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:48 am

Quoting heathrow (Reply 14):
One could argue TWA 800 belongs on this list

That one I still find mysterious too. Too many witnesses who said things contradictory to the official statement. And too important reasons why this statement could have been forged.

Quoting shnoob940 (Reply 22):

Egypt Air 990 is mysterious, they never agreed on the cause.

No mystery here. The only ones who disagree with the obvious suicide of the copilot are questioning it for very transparent political/religious reasons.

Quoting vincewy (Reply 13):

1. KE 007 (1983) shot down near Sakhalin Island. To this day, some still believe there were survivors but kept in Russia

The iron curtain is down. No way someone beside notorious conspiracy theorists believe that.

As for the propeller-plane disapperances over the sea quoted her, that was long ago when engines etc. were far less reliable. Surely technical reasons and/or bad weather are at fault here. And in rare cases maybe a bomb. Controls were far less effective in the past.
 
BrouAviation
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:58 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 19):

I don't agree that KE007 is a mistery. This is just a conspiracy theory, since for almost all major crashes there is at least one conspiracy theory.

I do think it is a mistery, as for the question why it was shot down never got answered. Did they really believe it was spying for the US? Or did they just want to make a point? Did the pilot of the Soviet-fighter knew he was killing 250+ innocent people?
Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
 
na
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:11 am

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 29):
I do think it is a mistery, as for the question why it was shot down never got answered.

Yes, the question why was never sufficiently answered.

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 29):
Did they really believe it was spying for the US?

Probably, but unlikely. The chance that this plane could have been used for spying was very low, that must have been clear to the Russians involved.

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 29):
Or did they just want to make a point?


I think thats the reason. It happened when Reagan was in the middle of starting his rearmament program, and the USSR saw already the writing on the wall.

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 29):
Did the pilot of the Soviet-fighter knew he was killing 250+ innocent people?

He came pretty near as he signalled to the crew so he must have seen it was a 747. And possibly even saw it was a Korean one. The officers involved must have been very badly trained not to identify it as a civilian airliner.
 
NBGSkyGod
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:12 am

A less known mystery aircraft was a learjet that crashed near Lebanon, NH in 1996. It simply disappeared off radar (no radar below 3500') and was never seen again. It's crash site was later found about 25 miles from the airport in a heavily wooded area and it turned out to be pilot error after review of the CVR and what little radar data was available.

Many rumors floated around about the guys stealing the airplane, drug smuggling, and others. Many times pilots will fly into LEB and ask if this is the same place as the learjet crash.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_New_Hampshire_Learjet_crash
Pilots are idots, who at any given moment will attempt to kill themselves or others.
 
alggag
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:23 am

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 29):
Did the pilot of the Soviet-fighter knew he was killing 250+ innocent people?

When he was interviewed on Mayday/Air Crash Investigation he insisted that it was a spy plane, even today. However, one of the other commentators suggested that he likely refuses to believe otherwise as his way of coping with what he did.

[Edited 2012-08-16 02:24:27]
 
na
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:46 am

Quoting alggag (Reply 32):
When he was interviewed on Mayday/Air Crash Investigation he insisted that it was a spy plane, even today. However, one of the other commentators suggested that he likely refuses to believe otherwise as his way of coping with what he did.

He is a liar. He isnt an honest man, simply as that. He in the first place made a huge mistake. Insisting a passenger plane was a spy, and on top not having any proof for it, is just a mix of selfprotection and cowardice. How should he have been able to identify it as a spy plane when he even denies to have identified it as what it clearly was for even the blindest eye, a 747, and a civilian one.
 
keegd76
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:48 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 24):
Quoting shnoob940 (Reply 22):
Egypt Air 990 is mysterious, they never agreed on the cause.

...or political reasons. The cause is pretty obvious, suicide by the FO PF.

I can understand why the Egyptians would refuse to accept that conclusion. They idea that any pilot would intentionally kill the passengers for which he is responsible is pretty appalling.
Nothing comes down faster than a VTOL aircraft upside down.
 
debonair
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:55 am

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
Are there any other crashes which are still shrouded in mystery?

El Al Cargo flight 1862 in Amsterdam: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al_Flight_1862

The reason for the crash is known- but what was loaded on board the aircraft? Many residents reported health problems after the crash... Giving the fact of Gulf War I, where chemical weapons loaded?
 
PanHAM
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:06 am

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 29):
I do think it is a mistery, as for the question why it was shot down never got answered.
Quoting na (Reply 30):
The officers involved must have been very badly trained not to identify it as a civilian airliner.

There were detailled reports in the press about that. The fighter pilot simply executed an order and that order came through the chain of commands from Moscow, from very high up in the ranks.

KE007 deviated form the assigned route and the shoot-down occured well after the aircraft originally strayed into Soviet airspace over Kamchatka.and the US had military reconnaissance aircraft in the area.

In these days, all that contributed to the tragedy. It is not a mystery however, this case is well documented.

.
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N14AZ
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:10 am

Quoting na (Reply 33):
How should he have been able to identify it as a spy plane when he even denies to have identified it as what it clearly was for even the blindest eye, a 747, and a civilian one.

I am not his lawyer but they say that seen from behind (as far as I know he never flew next to the 747) it's possible to mix up a 747 and a 707: same number of engines, ratio between fuselage diameter and engines.

Furthermore, in that night there was actually a military 707 (don't know which kind of KC...) flying near the border. If I remember correctly he was informed by his superiors that there was a spy plane flying around.

Just for safety reasons: I am in no way trying to defend what he did or had to do.
 
na
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:32 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 37):
I am not his lawyer but they say that seen from behind (as far as I know he never flew next to the 747) it's possible to mix up a 747 and a 707: same number of engines, ratio between fuselage diameter and engines.

The Russian pilot who shot it down (and there were 3 more russian jets around who could have helped to identify the plane) said he saw two rows of windows, so he identified it as a 747. And he said he identified it as a civilian plane. He just didnt tell his superiors. Who didnt care anyway.
 
ltbewr
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 am

There are several categories of 'mysterious' Air Disasters.

One is that there are a number that occurred up and until the 1990's where the remains were not located or retrievable due to less technology to be able to locate where they had flown or where unable or was unaffordable to locate and retrieve aircraft remains, especially in ocean waters. Improvements in flight tracking and more will to seek aircraft remains in deep waters (AF 447 for example) have reduced some of these mysterious losses.

Then you have limits of recorders even today or where damaged due to a crash or the remains of an aircraft were so badly damaged that it is not able to come to an absolute conclusion.

Military aircraft and where aircraft are owned by a government are a special category as some that crash may do so from transporting of illegal or dangerous cargo and not wanting to disclose such materials. (Arrow Air in Gander, El Al cargo at AMS)

Cover ups, allowing deliberate destruction of recorders or deliberate interference of investigations for political reasons or to protect manufactures or governments from financial liability.

Of course in some mysterious crashes, you just have human error or actions that occur we just may never know. In some accidents-disasters, you have some for their egos or political beiefs that there had to be 'conspricies' by governments, criminals, space aliens and the like.
 
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rmoore7734
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:45 pm

 
AR385
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:57 am

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 28):
I do think it is a mistery, as for the question why it was shot down never got answered. Did they really believe it was spying for the US? Or did they just want to make a point? Did the pilot of the Soviet-fighter knew he was killing 250+ innocent people?
Quoting na (Reply 29):
Probably, but unlikely. The chance that this plane could have been used for spying was very low, that must have been clear to the Russians involved.

I do not think any of the above is relevant. Any aircraft straying into soviet territory in those years ran the risk of being shot down. Civilian or not. And this was not the first time. In 1978 was it? they shot another KAL aircraft, a 707 flying from Paris to Seoul. That incident was not so tragic because in its emergency descent after being hit, the Soviet military jets lost sight of it in cloud and the airliner eventually landed on a frozen lake.
 
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N14AZ
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:04 pm

Quoting rmoore7734 (Reply 39):

KAL Flight 007 explained

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csq9g...lated

I am confused. What does this video "explain"?
 
Viscount724
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:54 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 40):
I do not think any of the above is relevant. Any aircraft straying into soviet territory in those years ran the risk of being shot down. Civilian or not. And this was not the first time. In 1978 was it? they shot another KAL aircraft, a 707 flying from Paris to Seoul. That incident was not so tragic because in its emergency descent after being hit, the Soviet military jets lost sight of it in cloud and the airliner eventually landed on a frozen lake.

.

2 passengers killed from the missile shrapnel. Photos here:
http://www.historyofpia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14196

Some additional photos in this Russian site.
http://www.autoreview.ru/archive/200...fender/index.php?phrase_id=4645209
 
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rmoore7734
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:30 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 41):

In 1980 Larry McDonald introduced American Legion National Convention Resolution 773 to the House of Representatives calling for a comprehensive congressional investigation into the Council on Foreign Relations and Trilateral Commission.

McDonald was considering a run for the US Presidency as a Democrat.

"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and communism under the same tent, all under their control...Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent." - Larry McDonald

Source:http://www.dailypaul.com/69777/congressman-larry-mcdonald-interesting

Here is the Rockefeller quote from his book Memoirs Ch. 27 : Proud Internationalist, p. 406

For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure — one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.

The New World Order (NWO) put the order out to kill Mr. McDonald.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:41 am

Quoting Flobo3 (Reply 22):
I would add swissair flight 111 that crashed near Gander in 1998 ... because they never recovered the 500 million canadian dollar worth diamond treasure from the cargo hold

This one is about as clear as Mudd, as you can get. On board fire and first the crew wanted to go all the way back to BOS, then were flying around dumping fuel and the fire was rapidly becoming catastrophic. That was compounded by an awful MD-11 Smoke/Fire/Fumes checklist.
 
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Mortyman
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RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:22 am

Bermuda Triangle

BSAA Star Tiger disappearance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-AHNP_%22Star_Tiger%22

Flight 19:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_19

1948 Airborne Transport DC-3 (DST) disappearance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NC16002_disappearance

BSAA Star Ariel disappearance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-AGRE_%22Star_Ariel%22


Others:

N844AA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N844AA

Hawaii Clipper:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Clipper

The White Bird:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Bird

Northwest Orient Airlines Flight 2501:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Orient_Airlines_Flight_2501

1974 Typhoon Bess WC-130 Swan 38 disappearance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Ty..._Bess_WC-130_Swan_38_disappearance

1956 B-47 ( carrying two capsules of nuclear weapons material in carrying cases ) disappearance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956_B-47_disappearance

1951 Canadian Pacific Air Lines Douglas DC-4 disappearance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Ca...r_Lines_Douglas_DC-4_disappearance

1950 Douglas C-54D-1-DC disappearance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950_Douglas_C-54D-1-DC_disappearance

1948 Airborne Transport DC-3 (DST) disappearance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Ai...Transport_DC-3_(DST)_disappearance
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm

RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:59 pm

Quoting na (Reply 32):
He is a liar. He isnt an honest man, simply as that. He in the first place made a huge mistake. Insisting a passenger plane was a spy, and on top not having any proof for it, is just a mix of selfprotection and cowardice. How should he have been able to identify it as a spy plane when he even denies to have identified it as what it clearly was for even the blindest eye, a 747, and a civilian one.

A liar is someone who intentionally misleads others with what they know to be untrue, which I don't see as the case. I believe that the pilot legitimately believes that he shot down a spy plane (despite the evidence otherwise) simply because it acts as a coping mechanism for him. Killing an airliner full of people in a single swipe at the behest of your superiors must be horribly traumatizing, and I think he has convinced himself (with some help of his superiors) that it was an American spy plane so that he can deal with the pain.

It's not unlike alcoholism. An alcoholic will stand in front of you with an empty bottle of vodka in their hand, look you right in the eye and say they do not have a drinking problem. They know they are holding the bottle, they know they drank it, but they cannot bring themselves to believe they have lowered themselves to this level.

Quoting debonair (Reply 34):
El Al Cargo flight 1862 in Amsterdam: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al_Flight_1862

The reason for the crash is known- but what was loaded on board the aircraft? Many residents reported health problems after the crash... Giving the fact of Gulf War I, where chemical weapons loaded?

Quote from the page you linked:

Quote:
In 1998 it was publicly revealed by El-Al spokesman Nachman Klieman that 190 liters of dimethyl methylphosphonate, a CWC schedule 2 chemical which, among many other uses, can be used for the synthesis of Sarin nerve gas, had been included in the cargo.

Sounds like they know what was in the cargo that they didn't check. Whether it caused the reported health problems though is debatable.

Quoting na (Reply 37):
And he said he identified it as a civilian plane.

What he said was: "I saw two rows of windows and knew that this was a Boeing. I knew this was a civilian plane. But for me this meant nothing. It is easy to turn a civilian type of plane into one for military use..."

Quoting rmoore7734 (Reply 43):
to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and communism under the same tent

...and with this line, the argument loses all credibility in my eyes.

The "New World Order" conspiracy has been introduced as an alternative theory in just about every tragedy that has happened in the past 40 years. None of which that have yet to be proven. The NWO explanation holds no water.
Flying refined.
 
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rmoore7734
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:59 pm

RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:25 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 46):
...and with this line, the argument loses all credibility in my eyes.

The "New World Order" conspiracy has been introduced as an alternative theory in just about every tragedy that has happened in the past 40 years. None of which that have yet to be proven. The NWO explanation holds no water.

If it is still a conspiracy strange how we have so many political leaders & the pope etc. talking about it an endorsing it.
See this for the quotes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruw_moomD8I
 
debonair
Posts: 2697
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:15 am

I just saw a documentary on AF Concorde's AF4590 crash.

As we all know, the official cause was a metal debris from a CO DC10- rupturing the Concorde tyre.

According to other sources, a spacer from the left main landing-gear beam was missing and caused the crash. Now fire-fighters of CDG airport told in a statement, that they saw the Concorde already on fire, well before the point (given in the crash investigation) of the contact with the CO debris. It was also confirmed by an investigator, that the spacer of the left landing-gear was never found...
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm

RE: The Most Mysterious Air Disasters?

Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:00 am

Quoting rmoore7734 (Reply 47):
If it is still a conspiracy strange how we have so many political leaders & the pope etc. talking about it an endorsing it.

Before it became the title of a popular conspiracy theory, the term "new world order" meant a period of time where the world saw a dramatic political change (normally the eras after events like WWII or the Cold War). Look it up.

An all-powerful global entity did not bring down a civilian airliner just to shut up an American congressman.
Flying refined.

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