LY777
Topic Author
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Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Flights

Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:40 am

Hi all,

I know we have discussed it many times, but I was wondering which European airlines still operate wide bodies on their domestic and European flights.
In the 80s, many flights were operated by wide-bodies: AF, LH, IB with their A300s for example.

Unfortunately, most of these flights are now operated by A32X (or at best 737NGs mainly for LCC), and this is very boring.

Which European airlines still operate widebodies on these routes?

I can think of BA with their 763Domestic but they are due to leave soon AFAIK
TK also operates some A330s, assuming TK is a European airline.

Is there a possibilty that we see more wide-body operations intra-Europe?
Flown:717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, D8,D10,L1011, A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388
 
JU068
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:55 pm

- During the summer months Aeroflot operates into Larnaca using either their B767-300, A330-300 or IL-96. I believe it is the flight that departs Moscow at around 05:00.

- British Airways operates into Larnaca with their B767-300 and if I am not mistaken they also fly them into Athens, Istanbul, Madrid (not sure) and Stockholm.

- Doesn't Iberia fly their A340s into London Heathrow?
 
deltamartin
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:12 pm

AB has a few high-density A333's which they fly from Germany to PMI and the Canaries.

TK does indeed send some widebodies to Europe, they are quite flexible with their fleet depending on demand, so it's often difficult to know where these will go. It's mostly A330's but also A343 and the occasional 77W.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 1):
- During the summer months Aeroflot operates into Larnaca using either their B767-300, A330-300 or IL-96. I believe it is the flight that departs Moscow at around 05:00.

I believe it's several widebody flights a day during the summer, equipment varies depending on which day it is. I flew an IL-96 on the SVO-LCA route this summer and that departure time was 15:30.
Il-96 With Aeroflot: ARN-TLL-SVO-LCA-ARN (by deltamartin Sep 12 2012 in Trip Reports)
If I remember correctly, when booking, the other SU flights that day were operated by another IL-96 and an A333.

SU also sends widebodies to AYT, IST and next summer also a destination on the Canary Islands IIRC.

Martin
 
02hilliert
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:16 pm

They are so often forgotten in discussions like this, but Monarch regularly use A300s and A330s on short-haul flights within Europe, with the most popular destinations being AGP / PMI / TFS / ACE / DLM / LCA / PFO.
Next Up: Back to the US - Charlotte & Kansas City
 
LY777
Topic Author
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:20 pm

It is a shma wedon't see more widebodies on these routes like in Asia, where flying 777s on a 2 hour flight is very frequent.
Flown:717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, D8,D10,L1011, A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388
 
LH422
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:20 pm

From FRA, I can think of the following flights:

BA: FRA-LHR (763)
LA: FRA-MAD (A343, soon 788)
KU: FRA-GVA (A306)
AB: FRA-PMI (A333 in summer)
TK: FRA-IST (A333, occasionally)
DE: FRA to bigger European destinations (763 occasionally)
 
UALWN
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:28 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 1):
- Doesn't Iberia fly their A340s into London Heathrow?

And also to Tenerife and Gran Canaria.

[Edited 2012-10-31 06:32:06]
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/380
 
migair54
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:30 pm

IB operates daily or very often A340´s to LHR, Gran Canaria, Tenerife, sometimes to Barcelona.

BA operates B763 to MAD and BCN quite often, also B744 to Moscow and even B763.

Lan Chile operates MAD-FRA on A340 and soon it will be B787.
 
JU068
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:33 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 6):

Thanks for that.

Doesn't Kuwait Airways also fly an intra-European route?
 
LH422
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:06 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 8):
Doesn't Kuwait Airways also fly an intra-European route?

According to http://www.kuwaitairways.com/map.html they fly FRA-GVA, CDG-GVA and CDG-FCO.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:10 pm

Transaero also sends widebodies (including B747) to Spanish destinations, at least DME-BCN.
 
Tupolev160
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:20 pm

Yes, the intra-European skies became dreadfully boring - i mean, we're in a time where an A321 looks somewhat exotic... (compared to the never-ending twins of B737/319/320). Very sad indeed. I was about to point out that the main airlines having some wide-bodies around Europe are IB (the LHR flights) and SU. Some years ago i remember SU sending their Il-96 to BEG in periods of high demand but now if the 2/3 daily flights are full, they'll remain full - there'll be no capacity upgrade.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
Tolmachevo
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:38 pm

I think EI also use A333 on DUB-AGP on occasion, it somehow fits in between the arrival of the aircraft from the U.S. in the early morning and the return departure in the afternoon...

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jumpjets
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:39 pm

BA operate 767s on certain peak services from LHR to GLA and EDI - but not daily if I recall correctly.
 
baw217
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:46 pm

BA's winter 767 usage within Europe is as follows:

15x Weekly - Edinburgh (Mon-Sat BA1434/1441, Mon-Fri and Sun BA1464, Sat BA1456, Daily BA1435, Sun BA1442/1445 & BA1452/1459)
11x Weekly - Glasgow (Mon-Sat BA1484/1489 & Mon-Fri BA1492/1497)
6x Weekly - Amsterdam (Mon-Wed & Fri-Sun BA428/429)
Daily - Athens (BA632/633)
6x Weekly - Copenhagen (Mon-Fri & Sun BA818/819)
Daily - Frankfurt (BA902/903)
Daily - Istanbul (BA676/677)
Daily - Larnaca (BA662/663)
Daily - Madrid (BA456/457)
Daily - Stockholm (BA780/781)
 
brilondon
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:01 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 7):
BA operates B763 to MAD and BCN quite often, also B744 to Moscow and even B763.

Wow, I did not realize that BA used a 744 on their Moscow route. Why, do they have that much traffic on that route?
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
pesit4a
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:21 pm

Quoting tolmachevo (Reply 12):

Yes, Aer Lingus use an A333 on DUB-AGP every day during IATA summer season on the EI582/583 rotation. The aircraft arrives from JFK or BOS, departs for Malaga, and after arrival back at Dublin, operates the last departure to JFK, the EI109.
You just can't keep a good man down!
 
migair54
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:13 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 16):
Wow, I did not realize that BA used a 744 on their Moscow route. Why, do they have that much traffic on that route?

It´s a new rotation, they used to operate B767 in the route, Must be because of cargo and Good premium and high Yield load, and now we know that VS will not be in the route, the rights went to Easyjet, so i´m sure it´s even better for BA.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 10):
Transaero also sends widebodies (including B747) to Spanish destinations, at least DME-BCN.

Not only Transaero, but some other Russian airlines fly the widebodies to Spain, Il-86/96 and Airbus 300/310 (Siberia Airlines), i´m not sure if they still do it but they used to, I remember seeing them in BCN.

I´m not sure if you want to talk about Cargo airlines but many of them also fly widebodies in european routes from A300´s to B747´s.

Then many airlines fly them in charter operation like Thomas Cook, Pullmantur.....
 
JU068
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:23 pm

Quoting BAW217 (Reply 15):
6x Weekly - Copenhagen (Mon-Fri & Sun BA818/819)

Since when was a B767-300 operated into Copenhagen? Is this new?
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:37 pm

EK flies an A332 between MLA and LCA.
I might actually take that flight in April...  
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
baw217
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:51 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 19):
Since when was a B767-300 operated into Copenhagen? Is this new?

Yes, started this week at the beginning of the winter scheduling season.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:07 pm

Quoting LH422 (Reply 9):

According to http://www.kuwaitairways.com/map.html they fly FRA-GVA, CDG-GVA and CDG-FCO.

Only FRA-GVA (2 x week) and CDG-FCO (4 x week) appear to currently operate. All shown as A300-600.

Quoting LH422 (Reply 5):
From FRA, I can think of the following flights:

BA: FRA-LHR (763)
LA: FRA-MAD (A343, soon 788)
KU: FRA-GVA (A306)
AB: FRA-PMI (A333 in summer)
TK: FRA-IST (A333, occasionally)
DE: FRA to bigger European destinations (763 occasionally)

And from MUC, daily SQ 77W MUC-MAN.
 
flyingfool
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:25 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 18):
I´m not sure if you want to talk about Cargo airlines but many of them also fly widebodies in european routes from A300´s to B747´s.

In/out of AMS I know the following;

CZ 77X AMS-VIE
SQ 74Y LHR-AMS
SQ 74Y AMS-CPH
KE 74Y AMS-ARN
RU 74Y AMS-DME
RU 74Y AMS-SVO
KZ 74Y AMS-MXP
UC 77X AMS-FRA
EK 74Y AMS-GOT
MP M1F AMS-TFS
MP M1F AMS-LPA
CX 74Y FRA-AMS
DHL AB6 LEJ-AMS
 
ORDJOE
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:31 am

I thought BA also sent a 767 to ATH at least during summer. TK sends A330s to LHR once a day. For a while KL used an A330 once a day to LHR not too long ago, but I do not think they do that anymore. IB sends an A340 to LHR occasionally

Does SQ still do the MUC-MAN 5th freedom flight, but it is not a European airline

I do agree so much of Europe is an endless parade of the 737 319 and 320. At least in the US we are treated to an occasional 757. And I will agree with the others is that I love flying in Asia as it is like 90% widebodies, you have so many airlines without a single narrowbody.
 
Tupolev160
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:51 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 13):
What year did Aeroflot send their IL-96s to Belgrade? I have never seen/heard of an IL-96 being scheduled to BEG, and I have been closely following aviation movements in Belgrade.

As i carefully said, it wasn't scheduled but it was an occasional upgrade, on busy summer days and especially in the winter when the flights would be disrupted for a day due to low visibility (fog) before BEG got CAT IIIb. I was simply commenting that in comparable situations today or last winter for instance, when flights to Moscow were totally booked for 2-3 days ahead and it was impossible to get a place, no capacity up-gauge occurred whatsoever. I guess it's more profitable to have 3 narrow-bodies a day operate the route instead of one wide-body and one narrow-body, especially when it comes to the Il-96.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
tjcab
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:53 am

...and Aeroflot IL 86/96's and A330's to Saltzburg during the Ski season

database search
 
Mattuk
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:53 am

TOM also operate a lot of 763 flights ex LGW & MAN to a variety of destinations in Europe.
 
aviateur
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:55 am

It's funny, how the idea of widebodied planes on short-haul routes seems so odd nowadays.

Not all that long ago, be it in Europe or the US, widebodies were VERY common on short-haul flights.


PS
Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
 
JU068
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:23 am

Quoting BAW217 (Reply 21):
Yes, started this week at the beginning of the winter scheduling season.

It is because of cargo demand as is the case with Stockholm or is there passenger demand?



There is also Air China's flight from Athens to Munich, operated by an A330-200.
 
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CARST
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:55 am

There was this thread I started in 2011 about all the 5th freedom flights in Europe, most of them are still being flown, perhaps even some new ones exist:
List Of All 5th Freedom Flights In Europe... (by CARST Feb 19 2011 in Civil Aviation)#1


A.net member flyingalex posted this list at the end of the old thread, putting all posts together:

SQ: MUC-MAN-MUC
SQ328 MUC-MAN 06:35 - 07:50 77W (Daily)
SQ327 MUC-MAN 09:10 - 12:15 77W (Daily)

LA: MAD-FRA-MAD
LA704 MAD-FRA 15:15 - 17:55 340 (Daily except We)
LA705 FRA-MAD 19:40 - 22:25 340 (Daily except We)

LA: MAD-CDG-MAD
LA723 MAD-CDG 15:30 - 17:35 340 (WeFrSu)
LA722 CDG-MAD 19:40 - 21:55 340 (WeFrSu)

KU: FCO-CDG-FCO
KU165 FCO-CDG 16:55-19:05 AB6 (MoSa)
KU165 FCO-CDG 16:55-19:05 340 (TuTh)
KU166 CDG-FCO 09:45-11:55 AB6 (TuSu)
KU166 CDG-FCO 09:45-11:55 340 (WeFr)

KU: FRA-GVA-FRA
KU177 FRA-GVA 15:10-16:15 340 (WeFr)
KU178 GVA-FRA 11:45-12:55 340 (Th)
KU178 GVA-FRA 09:00-10:05 340 (Sa)

ET: FCO-ARN-FCO
ET702 FCO-ARN 06:50-10:00 757 (MoWeFrSa)
ET703 ARN-FCO 21:00-00:01 757 (MoWeFrSa)

OM: SVO-TXL-SVO
OM135 SVO-TXL 12:00-12:45 738 (ThSu)
OM136 TXL-SVO 14:00-18:30 738 (ThSu)

EK: LCA-MLA-LCA
EK107 LCA-MLA 12:15-14:10 332 (Daily)
EK108 MLA-LCA 15:45-19:10 332 (Daily)

CA: MUC-ATH-MUC (begins 11 May)
CA961 MUC-ATH 06:55-10:30 330 (Daily)
CA962 ATH-MUC 11:30-12:55 330 (Daily)

KE: MAD-AMS (as part of an ICN-MAD-AMS-ICN triangle)
KE926 MAD-AMS 09:30-12:00 772 (TuThSa)

KE: VIE-ZRH (as part of an ICN-VIE-ZRH-ICN triangle)
KE935 VIE-ZRH 18:45-20:05 772 (TuThSu)

PK: OSL-CPH (as part of a LHE-OSL-CPH-LHE triangle)
PK752 OSL-CPH 16:10-17:40 772 (We)

PK: CPH-OSL (as part of an ISB-CPH-OSL-ISB triangle)
PK772 CPH-OSL 17:40-19:00 77W (Sa)
 
MHG
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:45 am

If the B 757-300 counts as a widebody then Condor has lots of these intra european flights ...

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):

I can think of BA with their 763Domestic but they are due to leave soon AFAIK

I don´t think they´re gonna leave soon as BA just made a cabin refurbishment on their 767´s (or is still in the process doing so - not sure if all have been refurbished already)
I miss the sound of rolls royce darts and speys
 
nicode
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:22 am

There is also UX between MAD and PMI with an A332.
 
goldorak
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:36 am

AF flies a 77W to BIA during the very busy summer period
 
JU068
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:44 am

Well if we are also including charter flights then there are a bunch of Russian carriers flying their widebodies into Cyprus. Transaero regularly sends their B777s and B747s into Paphos, the same applies for Rhodes and a few other Greek destinations.
A lot of charter airlines operate widebodies into popular tourist resorts.
 
debonair
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:01 am

Quoting deltamartin (Reply 2):
AB has a few high-density A333's which they fly from Germany to PMI and the Canaries.

AFAIK AB will retire ALL A333 at the end of the summer season and replacing them with more A332 (e.g. ex MERIDIANAfly). I doubt we will see much A332 intra Europen traffic!

Quoting 02hilliert (Reply 3):
They are so often forgotten in discussions like this, but Monarch regularly use A300s and A330s on short-haul flights within Europe,

But much more forgotten are other Charter airlines like Thomson Airways (B767), CONDOR (B767) both on very limited routes and for sure Thomas Cook B767/A330 on high density charters...

BTW. Don't forget LOT's B787: http://www.lot.com/pl/en/web/newlot/promotion-details?promo=2112
 
Eagleboy
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:02 am

Quoting MHG (Reply 31):
If the B 757-300 counts as a widebody then Condor has lots of these intra european flights ...

B757 is a narrow body....

[Edited 2012-11-01 04:02:32]
 
TurkishWings
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:28 am

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
TK also operates some A330s, assuming TK is a European airline.

You really do not need to "assume". Here's your proof...

http://www.aea.be/about/memberairlines/index.html
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
Tupolev160
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:17 pm

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 37):
You really do not need to "assume". Here's your proof...

Well TK is not an European airline anyway so there is really no space for arguing about anything of the type.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
Tupolev160
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:21 pm

Besides, if we're talking of LCA, i would like to mention another slight off-topic, the largest scheduled plane for an Euro-Mediterranean flight certainly has to be CDG-BEY on AF's 777-300. Some claim BEY being AF's second most profitable destination due to the large number of connecting passengers and a huge O&D market.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
TurkishWings
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:40 pm

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 38):
Well TK is not an European airline anyway so there is really no space for arguing about anything of the type.

You are of course entitled to your opinion wrong as it may be but why the hostility?
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
Tupolev160
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:53 pm

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 40):
why the hostility?

When i say "arguing" i am not about hostility. I was just meaning that there is no point of two of you to argue regarding the issue whatsoever, given that fact.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:12 pm

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 38):
Well TK is not an European airline anyway so there is really no space for arguing about anything of the type.

The legal fact as stated is: TK is a european airline. If you like it or not.
 
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Semaex
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:07 pm

Quoting LH422 (Reply 5):
DE: FRA to bigger European destinations (763 occasionally)

Their 757s regularly fly to Southern European destinations, although I'm not sure whether 757s count as widebodies, my aoplogies.

Quoting CARST (Reply 30):
A.net member flyingalex posted this list at the end of the old thread, putting all posts together:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't IR at some time use the A300 IKA-VIE-FRA for some time?
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
LH422
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:41 pm

Quoting Semaex (Reply 43):
Their 757s regularly fly to Southern European destinations, although I'm not sure whether 757s count as widebodies, my aoplogies.

My definition of a widebody is that it has a fuselage that is wide enough to fit two aisles. The narrowest wide body would therefore be the 767.

I found a few pictures of Condor's 767s in southern Europe:

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Photo © Jose Luis Guerrero - Iberian Spotters
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Photo © Javier Bravo Muñoz

 
debonair
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:12 pm

Back to topic...

Quoting Semaex (Reply 43):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't IR at some time use the A300 IKA-VIE-FRA for some time?

True, and many other intra-European routes, but unfortunately without traffic rights!
 
vv701
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:30 pm

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 24):
I thought BA also sent a 767 to ATH at least during summer.
Quoting BAW217 (Reply 15):
Daily - Athens (BA632/633)
Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 38):
Well TK is not an European airline anyway so there is really no space for arguing about anything of the type.

Lots of space.

The TK HQ is located at Ataturk Airport in Yesilkoy, Bakırkoy, Istanbul. Ataturk Airport (IST) is geographically situated on the western side of the Bosphorus. It is therefore located in continental Europe.

Ataturk Airport is the main hub of Turkish Airlines. Ataturk Airport (IST) is geographically located in European Turkey.

Therefore TK is headquatered and hubbed in Europe.

Further in 2012 TK won the Skytrax Award for "Best Airline in Europe" which would be a strange award to give to a non-European airline.
 
Tupolev160
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RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:47 pm

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 42):
The legal fact as stated is: TK is a european airline.

Where is that "legally stated", can you enlighten me please? Did the UN and world-geographers recognize Anatolia as part of Europe?

Quoting VV701 (Reply 46):

Excuse me but is that airline called "Turkish Airlines" or "Istanbul Airlines"?

That's the national airline of a country whose capital and 95% of territory is located in Asia and whose historical/cultural heritage lies in the Middle-East (as much as they are trying to mimic Europe for the last century).

So according to your logic, if Iberia would decide to set their headquarters out of convenience at TFS you would consider them an African airline, or if AF decided to relocate theirs to Guadeloupe, they would become a Latin-American airline, just because that's part of French territory?   

Quoting VV701 (Reply 46):
Further in 2012 TK won the Skytrax Award for "Best Airline in Europe" which would be a strange award to give to a non-European airline.

Money can make miracles, Skytrax is far from being an independent and unbiased organization. Anyway i don't see who they would have voted for otherwise cause there are no any more decent major airlines in Europe.

If SU has no problem being considered an Eurasian airline i don't see what's that fuss coming from to push everything Turkish into "Europe" where it clearly doesn't belong besides for the 5% of territory. An airline belongs there where the country whose name it flies belongs, period. Turkey is an Asian/Middle-Eastern country and i don't see anything bad in that, just stop the nonsense.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
Turkish350XWB
Posts: 464
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:23 pm

RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:34 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 46):

The TK HQ is located at Ataturk Airport in Yesilkoy, Bak%u0131rkoy, Istanbul. Ataturk Airport (IST) is geographically situated on the western side of the Bosphorus. It is therefore located in continental Europe.

Ataturk Airport is the main hub of Turkish Airlines. Ataturk Airport (IST) is geographically located in European Turkey.

Therefore TK is headquatered and hubbed in Europe.

Further in 2012 TK won the Skytrax Award for "Best Airline in Europe" which would be a strange award to give to a non-European airline.

And what is even more important: TK is member of the "Association of European Airlines AEA"

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 47):
Where is that "legally stated", can you enlighten me please? Did the UN and world-geographers recognize Anatolia as part of Europe?

Man, take your head out the sand and have a look around: Turkey is involved in almost every European international organization.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 47):
That's the national airline of a country whose capital and 95% of territory is located in Asia and whose historical/cultural heritage lies in the Middle-East (as much as they are trying to mimic Europe for the last century)

You are just proofing how ignorant you are in history... At least you know that the capital is not Istanbul, wow!

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 47):
So according to your logic, if Iberia would decide to set their headquarters out of convenience at TFS you would consider them an African airline, or if AF decided to relocate theirs to Guadeloupe, they would become a Latin-American airline, just because that's part of French territory?

Of course not. Tenerife is part of Spain and Spain is a european country. Guadaloupe is part of France and therefore it would stay European. This is a legal definition, not a geographical one.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 47):
If SU has no problem being considered an Eurasian airline

I do consider SU as a european airline as Russia is a european country, even though it may be geographically mostly asian.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 47):
An airline belongs there where the country whose name it flies belongs, period. Turkey is an Asian/Middle-Eastern country and i don't see anything bad in that, just stop the nonsense.

Whatever. There are people believing in Santa Clause... I need to tolerate that...
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19065
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:52 am

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 47):
Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 42):
The legal fact as stated is: TK is a european airline.

Where is that "legally stated", can you enlighten me please? Did the UN and world-geographers recognize Anatolia as part of Europe?

"Legal" isn't the best word, but TK has always considered themselves a European carrier, and IATA and other airline industry traffic statistics always include TK data with Europe, not Asia.
 
vv701
Posts: 5783
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: Wide-bodies On Domestic And Intra-European Fli

Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:54 am

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 47):
Excuse me but is that airline called "Turkish Airlines" or "Istanbul Airlines"?

It is Turkish Airlines (TK) or Turk Hava Yollari in Turkish.

The full address of its HQ is:

Turk Hava Yollari
General Administration Building
Ataturk Airport
Yesilkoy
34149 Istanbul

Check it out on their web site here:

http://www.turkishairlines.com/en-uk...-relation-call-center/sales-office

This certainly is not the HQ of Istanbul Airlines. After all they ceased trading more than 12 years ago. They went into administration on 8 August 2000. Then they had debts in excess of US $ 200 million.

Here is the most recent photos of any of their aircraft (excepting TC-ABA, a Caravelle that is in the Aircraft Museum at IST) in the a-net data base:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jeremy Holdsworth



There are many more taken in the first half of 2000 and just a few in July 2000 but none since. This one was taken just a couple of weeks before IL went bankrupt.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 47):
Did the UN and world-geographers recognize Anatolia as part of Europe?

No. But of what relevance is that? Anatolia lies entirely to the east of the Bosphorus and is therefore an integral part of Asia. Ataturk Airport (IST) is certainly NOT located in Anatolia. It is, however, located in European Turkey to the west of the Bosphorus. Very clearly any airline based in Europe with its main hub in Europe may be classified as being a European airline.

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