bjorn14
Topic Author
Posts: 3552
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

Your Dream Midsize Turboprop

Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:02 pm

With 50-seat RJ flying slowly being cut by the majors and the fleet of midsized (30-40 seats) turboprops reaching their end of life cycles there will be a huge gap in the market from 19-seaters to 70-seaters (with ATR the only maker of a 50-seat TP) If you could design the NG TP what would you have in itP

Here is my wishlist (no particular order)

Glass cockpit
Combo pax/cargo door
Galley w/oven(s)
Lavaratory
6J/30Y 36"/32" seat pitches; power ports
1,200+nm range
Noise/vibration reduction technology
800m/2,650ft. MinTOL
5-blade carbon fiber propellers
6'2"/1.9m cabin height; mainline overhead bins
365 mph cruise speed
WiFi and/or seatback IFE
Under US$20MM

and now your dream------
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
masseybrown
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RE: Your Dream Midsize Turboprop

Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:12 pm

Speaking as a passenger, the old Electras were pretty nice. I think in all-first config they seated about 64 pax, maybe around 90 for the two-class versions. It was a nice ride. I'd welcome the equivalent back.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: Your Dream Midsize Turboprop

Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:23 am

Mine would be a two-class Q400 with AVOD, WiFi, and lower-mounted wings, so you can see out the windows better.
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Devilfish
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RE: Your Dream Midsize Turboprop

Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:32 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
(with ATR the only maker of a 50-seat TP) If you could design the NG TP what would you have in itP

Here is my wishlist (no particular order)

Save for a few deviations, isn't that basically this?.....

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Photo © Terence Li


.....and it's not exactly flying off the assembly line.....

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
Under US$20MM

Good luck!         

[Edited 2013-08-06 22:46:28]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
bjorn14
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: Your Dream Midsize Turboprop

Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:13 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 3):
Save for a few deviations, isn't that basically this?.....

Your half right...its a mixture of an ATR42-600 and a Do328

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 3):
Good luck!

The current 42 sells for US$14MM so I should be good.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Your Dream Midsize Turboprop

Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:57 pm

I would suggest there will be demand for two aircraft families in the future:

30 and 50 seat turboprop:

- Four abreast seating
- Average cruise speed
- RFFS Cat 3 for the 30 seater and 4 for the 50 seater
- STOL performance for sub 800m runways
- Proven but rugged technology

80, 110 and 140 seat turboprop:

- 5 abreast seating
- Average cruise speed
- RFFS Cat 5 for the 80 seater, 6 for the others.
- STOL performance from sub 1,200m runways
- Proven technology


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
Devilfish
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RE: Your Dream Midsize Turboprop

Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:24 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 5):
30 and 50 seat turboprop:

- Four abreast seating
- Average cruise speed
- RFFS Cat 3 for the 30 seater and 4 for the 50 seater
- STOL performance for sub 800m runways
- Proven but rugged technology

Wish Bombardier would be bold enough to launch a completely updated/upgraded Q200...    ...

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"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Your Dream Midsize Turboprop

Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:51 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 6):
Wish Bombardier would be bold enough to launch a completely updated/upgraded Q200...

They would be better to develop a clean sheet 30-50 seater and create a larger family with C Series commonality to replace the Q400. The Q200/300 are good aircraft, but they are a fair bit more plane compared to the ATRs and I'm not convinced that a Q200NG alone would work, you would need a 50 seater too.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
Devilfish
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RE: Your Dream Midsize Turboprop

Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:37 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 7):
They would be better to develop a clean sheet 30-50 seater and create a larger family with C Series commonality to replace the Q400. The Q200/300 are good aircraft, but they are a fair bit more plane compared to the ATRs and I'm not convinced that a Q200NG alone would work, you would need a 50 seater too.

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I think ATR has the 50+seat TP market covered but they're not making much of a headway despite being the sole OEM offering a new generation airframe in that segment. Competing with ATR there and coming up with a completely new, bigger TP as the market suggests might be too much for Bombardier. As it is, they already have their hands full with the much delayed CS100 first flight (not to mention CS300). Continuing unchallenged in the Q200 niche (though not very lucrative) might be all BBD and its suppliers could manage at the moment. They could then go on from there when conditions are better. 
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
bjorn14
Topic Author
Posts: 3552
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RE: Your Dream Midsize Turboprop

Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:14 pm

From what I understand the big problem with the '42' is that it has the same economics as the '72' I was hoping I could fix that by making it lighter, more room for cargo, more carbon fiber parts.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
RussianJet
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RE: Your Dream Midsize Turboprop

Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:53 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 3):
Under US$20MM

Good luck!
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 5):
- Proven technology

How about an AN-140?  

Plym, I assume you've flown that type probably more than once, how is it? Admittedly it has one too many blades per engine, but it looks lovely.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Your Dream Midsize Turboprop

Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:33 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 8):
I think ATR has the 50+seat TP market covered but they're not making much of a headway despite being the sole OEM offering a new generation airframe in that segment.

Part of the problem is that the 42 is at the wrong end of the scale of economy. A 30 and 50 seater joint development would result in a more competitive 50 seater. But another big part of the problem is the 72's performance - it has very similar STOL capabilities to the 42 and is slowly hoovering up the 50-70 seat market. Hence a new 30/50 seat aircraft would have to beat it.

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 8):
Competing with ATR there and coming up with a completely new, bigger TP as the market suggests might be too much for Bombardier. As it is, they already have their hands full with the much delayed CS100 first flight (not to mention CS300).

In time that wouldn't be an issue in my opinion, the C Series might be guzzling resources but the Q400 and CRJ programs are not exactly booming.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 9):
From what I understand the big problem with the '42' is that it has the same economics as the '72' I was hoping I could fix that by making it lighter, more room for cargo, more carbon fiber parts.

The economics aren't so much the problem, rather that the 72's performance has improved so much that it is taking market share away from the 42.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 10):
Plym, I assume you've flown that type probably more than once, how is it? Admittedly it has one too many blades per engine, but it looks lovely.

Yeah I've flown a few of them, it's a fine aircraft actually - comfortable cabin, nice ride and looks great inside and out. Shame it didn't get the production support required for it to be a serious contender.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Your Dream Midsize Turboprop

Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:02 am

It'd be nice if Embraer looked into building a new E-120, based on the E-145 frame, with pusher props, but they have SJS, and aren't looking back.
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