AT
Topic Author
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Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:34 pm

I was reading a trip report earlier from a passenger on United Global First who went to the F class galley to request a beverage and was told to ask a different crew member as he was on break. This to me is appalling- even in Economy, but certainly in GLOBAL first, where passengers who pay top dollar expect better. (This is by no means to bash United- all airlines have some good and some not-so-good crew members).

My question is how if at all would that flight attendant be dealt with ? I'm not sure if the passenger told United Customer Service or even the in flight purser of that particular flight, but if s/he did, would they ever follow up with the crew member in question directly? And what would be the action?
 
RussianJet
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:40 am

While said crew member could have perhaps asked another crew member himself on behalf of the passenger, it's not 'appalling' that he was taking a break, assuming entitlement to it. They're not slaves you know.
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PanHAM
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:59 am

It take as much time to fill the request as it takes to tell that dumb passenger to go and see another flight attendand.

It is a service industry and the passegers pay the crew's salaries.

I like BA's "raid the larder" concept, they can tke a break and the passenger finds what he needs.
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hoons90
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:14 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 1):
While said crew member could have perhaps asked another crew member himself on behalf of the passenger, it's not 'appalling' that he was taking a break, assuming entitlement to it. They're not slaves you know.

  

Quoting AT (Thread starter):
I was reading a trip report earlier from a passenger on United Global First who went to the F class galley to request a beverage and was told to ask a different crew member as he was on break.

Was it an emergency? If not, don't disturb the crew member if he/she is on break. Otherwise, what's the point of having a break at all?

Cabin crew are human beings too, and they need some rest just like you do.

Quoting AT (Thread starter):
My question is how if at all would that flight attendant be dealt with ? I'm not sure if the passenger told United Customer Service or even the in flight purser of that particular flight, but if s/he did, would they ever follow up with the crew member in question directly? And what would be the action?

Probably nothing. If you are on break, you are on break. Period. Unless if it's an emergency.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:16 am

We used to have this Kind of servie oreinted mentality for instance at the post Offices, One could stand in line for 15 minutes and when it was your turn, Highness slammed the shutter because it was his entitled lunch break.
Now Deutsche Post has self employed slaves who need the turnover. Good move.

Telling a passenger not to bother me and go to another FA is a cardinal sin in a Service Business. Taking a break is OK, but then there has to be someone on duty, or, make it self Service.
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hoons90
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:21 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):
Telling a passenger not to bother me and go to another FA is a cardinal sin in a Service Business. Taking a break is OK, but then there has to be someone on duty, or, make it self Service.

What kind of mickey mouse operation would schedule all of the employee breaks at the same time? There must have been someone else on duty if the crew member directed them elsewhere. Surely, if he was simply passing the buck, why wouldn't the other crew members take umbrage to that and deal with him?

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):
We used to have this Kind of servie oreinted mentality for instance at the post Offices, One could stand in line for 15 minutes and when it was your turn, Highness slammed the shutter because it was his entitled lunch break.
Now Deutsche Post has self employed slaves who need the turnover. Good move.

So it's the employee's personal responsibility to find someone to relieve him, and not the employer's?
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
AT
Topic Author
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:20 pm

Of course the crew is entitled to a break to rest. No one is questioning that.

I was using this incident as an example- my broader question was that when there is a issue or complaint against a SPECIFIC crew member (as opposed to a more general complaint that doesn't apply to one specific person) does the airline follow up with the specific crew member in question.
 
hoons90
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:37 pm

Quoting AT (Reply 6):
I was using this incident as an example- my broader question was that when there is a issue or complaint against a SPECIFIC crew member (as opposed to a more general complaint that doesn't apply to one specific person) does the airline follow up with the specific crew member in question.

Really depends on the company, but usually they will at least ask for the employee's side of the story. If the employee is unionized, a union representative/shop steward may be present at the meeting and can be requested by the employee if he/she fears that the meeting could result in disciplinary action.

Most companies have a tiered disciplinary system where a verbal warning is followed by a written warning (or several), then suspension, then termination. Depending on the severity of the misconduct, some or all of the steps leading to termination can be skipped. Of course, unionized employees have every right to file a grievance which may result in their reinstatement (whether it's done internally or through arbitration).
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
coachclass
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:33 pm

I think if the crew member is in the galley and not at the designated crew rest area, then he is on duty. Can you imagine Singapore Airlines doing that? Or LH? You can be sure if an UA executive in First asked a crew member on break for a beverage, it would be done without hesitation. I'd send a letter of complaint.
 
AR385
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:38 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 1):
While said crew member could have perhaps asked another crew member himself on behalf of the passenger, it's not 'appalling' that he was taking a break, assuming entitlement to it. They're not slaves you know.
Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 3):
Was it an emergency? If not, don't disturb the crew member if he/she is on break. Otherwise, what's the point of having a break at all?

You are right, they are in break, Insofar as other crew members do not encumber them with duties. And they are perfectly within their right to give that answer to other crew members. But it is inexcusable to do it to a passenger and yes, more inexcusable if that passenger is so valued by the company and spends such amounts of money. It doesn´t take much to serve a beverage. One would expect that type of answer routinely on certain carriers which I would avoid mentioning so as not to deviate the thread.

Quoting AT (Reply 6):
I was using this incident as an example- my broader question was that when there is a issue or complaint against a SPECIFIC crew member

I suppose that if the passenger does not complain, nothing is done. It also matters how he complains. I was once having trouble on LH with a particular FA who seemed to be going out of his way to ruin my trip. So I calmly asked to speak tot the purser. When she arrived I calmly explained my situation and after profuse apologies, that FA was removed from F. Wether the purser pursued that later and went to management I don´t know. But that FA probably had a history. So I guess it also dependes on wether the crewmember already has a history.

The best way to complain is to write a letter to customer department. Ideally detailing names, flight no. and a short rendering of the situation. Wether the crew member gets called in or not depends on a lot of factors. Assuming he/she does, depending on the number of complaints received before, she may be fired or a letter put on their file.

Chances are a crew member who behaves appallingly to customers also behaves crappy to their coworkers. They too can complain I suppose.
 
hoons90
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:49 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 9):
But it is inexcusable to do it to a passenger and yes, more inexcusable if that passenger is so valued by the company and spends such amounts of money. It doesn´t take much to serve a beverage

You do have a valid point, and I also agree with the point made by RussianJet that perhaps the crew member should have asked another crew member on behalf of the passenger. Never said that the crew member did everything right. However, I hardly think it's enough to complain. Maybe I'm just more relaxed or blase compared to other passengers.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 9):
It doesn´t take much to serve a beverage.

It could become a slippery slope, though. His break could have been disturbed by tons of other passengers right before that, and he very well could have fulfilled those passengers' requests. However, the line has to be drawn somewhere, otherwise there goes your break!

I've flown SQ, CX, KE, OZ before, and if someone politely asked me to go to another crew member, I'm not sure if I'd think much of it. I'd feel bad about interrupting their break more than anything.

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 8):
I think if the crew member is in the galley and not at the designated crew rest area, then he is on duty. Can you imagine Singapore Airlines doing that?

Some aircraft don't really have a designated crew rest area, and inside the galley is not really a conspicuous place where a lot of passengers are expected to enter.



[Edited 2014-01-15 12:54:50]
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
AR385
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:48 pm

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 10):
However, I hardly think it's enough to complain.

We have differing views on that one. I find the answer extremely rude. In any service industry.

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 10):
However, the line has to be drawn somewhere, otherwise there goes your break!

Then the FA should not be on the galley. She should seating somewhere else. In any case, just tell the passenger to wait, that whatever it is will be delivered to your seat, and then get a co-worker to serve the passenger.

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 10):
Some aircraft don't really have a designated crew rest area, and inside the galley is not really a conspicuous place where a lot of passengers are expected to enter.

I´ve seen FA´s sitting on the galley in small lounge chairs reading ELLE magazine on AF A340s. Clearly you will not approach such an FA, unless you are being rude yourself. But in the case described by the OP, that person had no way of knowing (until the rude response) that that crew member was on break.
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:08 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 11):
I´ve seen FA´s sitting on the galley in small lounge chairs reading ELLE magazine on AF A340s

I think you'll find that wasn't a "break", per se, but rather the crew not having anything to do at that particular time. I'm 99% certain that AF have designated crew rest areas.

As for UA (or any airline without rest areas) shouldn't the crew member have access to a seat in the cabin during their break?
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AR385
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:13 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 12):
I think you'll find that wasn't a "break", per se, but rather the crew not having anything to do at that particular time. I'm 99% certain that AF have designated crew rest areas.

I would imagine so. Specially on an A340.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 12):
As for UA (or any airline without rest areas) shouldn't the crew member have access to a seat in the cabin during their break?

They should. In any case, supposing they got up from their rest areas for a soda, and were in the galley at that particular moment, I don´t think an "I´m on my break" answer is a proper response to a passenger, any passenger, let alone one in F.
 
infinit
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:14 am

Quoting AT (Thread starter):
I was reading a trip report earlier from a passenger on United Global First who went to the F class galley to request a beverage and was told to ask a different crew member as he was on break. This to me is appalling- even in Economy, but certainly in GLOBAL first, where passengers who pay top dollar expect better. (This is by no means to bash United- all airlines have some good and some not-so-good crew members).

Wow.. I think that is just poor customer service on the part of that FA. In any customer facing role, it's more appropriate to take the request and pass it on to your colleague rather than to point the customer somewhere else.

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 10):
I've flown SQ, CX, KE, OZ before, and if someone politely asked me to go to another crew member, I'm not sure if I'd think much of it. I'd feel bad about interrupting their break more than anything.

SQ would never do that. My sister used to be an FA with them and she told me about the strict SOPs they have to follow

Quoting AT (Thread starter):

My question is how if at all would that flight attendant be dealt with ? I'm not sure if the passenger told United Customer Service or even the in flight purser of that particular flight, but if s/he did, would they ever follow up with the crew member in question directly? And what would be the action?

For SQ, from what I know from my sister.. in terms of complains in general levied against the cabin crew, 3 letters of complaints can get you suspended. Not sure exactly how else they would deal with it but I know they take complaints against the FAs very seriously and compliments as well which are used as a performance-indicators

I expect UA would probably have a similar file of sorts for specific crew members. If you had told the purser s/he probably would have brought this up in their debriefing after the flight if UA does that.
 
genybustrvlr
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:56 am

These responses are a bunch of BS union, clocker mentality. This flight attendant's reaction is indefensible. Do your job or go hide in the crew rest area - simple. Union = Zero accountability to specific performance. The rude flight attendant in this example will be promoted and compensated exactly the same as the amazing one who makes your flight. Sad.

Edit: US Union Mentality

[Edited 2014-01-23 18:59:46]
 
hoons90
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RE: Do Airlines Monitor Specific Crew Performance?

Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:03 am

Quoting genybustrvlr (Reply 15):
Union = Zero accountability to specific performance.

That is a gross generalization. Is it also fair to say then, Management = Zero accountability to employee welfare?
Any developed democratic country gives you the freedom of assembly (which includes unionization), so if you dislike unions so much, maybe you could move to a country that bans them, like the UAE. Because, you know, they will not go away whether you like them or not.

Quoting genybustrvlr (Reply 15):
These responses are a bunch of BS union, clocker mentality.

So just because some of us think that employees deserve to have a break without interruption, we have a "BS union, clocker mentality"?

Quoting genybustrvlr (Reply 15):
The rude flight attendant in this example will be promoted and compensated exactly the same as the amazing one who makes your flight.

Was it a bit crass on the part of the flight attendant? Maybe. As I've mentioned, the flight attendant could have handled it better (and still have his break).
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.

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