notquitepatrick
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Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:02 pm

I know that airlines require a professional look but just wondered if the hair length regs have been relaxed in the last few years. For commercial or other airlines. Also what about piercings and tattoos? Thanks
 
shamrock321
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:54 pm

Each individual airline will have their own uniform standards relating to each of the items you've mentioned. At the airline I work for longer hair is fine if maintained correctly, piercings for men are out and no visible tattoos.
 
notquitepatrick
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:00 pm

Thanks Shamrock. Just wondered how long is long? But am guessing it's more about presentation than hair length eg top knot would be fine if neat etc.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:37 pm

Usually not.

Reality is, in 2017, you can break this rule and they cant do anything about it.

I know at my airline there are people transitioning from woman to man man to woman. Jewish people that need yamakas. Muslims that need head coverings.

All those guidelines go out the window if someone challenges them because nothing is enforceable anymore.
 
mikejepp
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:12 pm

The standard is...

No piercings
No visible tattoos
Hair natural color, conservative cut, and doesn't touch ears or collar.

People will, of course, push the limits with this.... but how much is it really worth it to you for a multi-million dollar career. It shows much more respect for yourself and your profession if you just be an adult and cut the hair. You may have a million and one reasons to argue against it, but the fact of the matter is that the public expects a clean cut professional looking pilot and because of that, so will your employer.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:46 pm

mikejepp wrote:
The standard is...

No piercings
No visible tattoos
Hair natural color, conservative cut, and doesn't touch ears or collar.

People will, of course, push the limits with this.... but how much is it really worth it to you for a multi-million dollar career. It shows much more respect for yourself and your profession if you just be an adult and cut the hair. You may have a million and one reasons to argue against it, but the fact of the matter is that the public expects a clean cut professional looking pilot and because of that, so will your employer.


This guy gets it!
 
notquitepatrick
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:05 pm

Yes I get that. But I am guessing you can still look professional with slightly longer hair that is neat and tied back/up and tattoos could be hidden
 
Dalmd88
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:47 pm

notquitepatrick wrote:
Yes I get that. But I am guessing you can still look professional with slightly longer hair that is neat and tied back/up and tattoos could be hidden

I'm guessing if you went to an airline interview with that look, you might have a good chance to have a short interview. It's your career, your choice.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:23 am

Airlines get a lot of pilot applications. If there's anything "off standard" they can find three other guys that are "on standard". It may not be fair but recruiters need to select candidates and will take any method of ranking. It's not only your looks. You may be weak on the interview, have a trivial medical issue or not do well enough on the sim test. Any ranking method...

If you want to maximise your chances, go for "standard pilot". Neat short hair, no facial hair or very neat beard, dark suit, white shirt, conservative tie, polished dress shoes, no visible jewelry apart from a wedding band.

Once you've worked at the airline for a year or two, it's a different story. I'm not saying push the boundaries, but I don't think hair neatly tied back in a pony tail or topknot would be cause for HR or flight ops to make a fuss, though you might get some looks. However, it depends on the airline, and importantly it may very well affect the impression you give at your upgrade interviews. I've seen guys on the line with a discreet ear stud, but no other piercings.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
BravoOne
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:48 am

People that like to buck the norm usually frequently stand out in many other ways as well, some of which are not always desirable. The very fact that you have to ask this question makes me wonder how you would fit in with today's new hire airline pilot group. BTW, I have nothing against long hair, especially on women:)
 
groundbird
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:46 pm

Standard - if one looks like a weed, expect to get weeded out.
 
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Balerit
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:21 pm

groundbird wrote:
Standard - if one looks like a weed, expect to get weeded out.


+1 :bigthumbsup:
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
B777LRF
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:33 am

If a bloke turned up for an interview with his hair in a man bun, I'd ask the standard questions, thank him for coming and file his application vertically. Same if a he or she showed up with visible tats or piercings.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
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Vio
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:43 pm

The way I see it, the moment any religious groups get special treatment in appearance, (from an ethical point of view), everything goes out the window. Air Canada recently allowed their pilots to have beards. It's interesting how many pilots I see now sporting one. I neither like it nor dislike it. Everyone has a right to present themselves how the wish. I care more about having that pilot well rested and properly trained. I couldn't give two &*#s how he looked.
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:44 pm

Probably reflects in your work ethic as well. Not sure what religion has do do with the OP question.
 
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Vio
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:13 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Probably reflects in your work ethic as well. Not sure what religion has do do with the OP question.


You know nothing of my work ethic. Considering I flew in some of the worst environment on this planet (the Canadian Arctic) for many years and now fly for an airline, I think it's good enough. My experience, skills and knowledge have nothing to do with having a "tattoo or long hair in a bun" (neither of which I posses), but I don't see how appearance influences on your professionalism as a pilot. What can one say about a pilot with a huge gut? Is that not "unprofessional"? (never mind unhealthy and could be a flight safety issue if he "auto feathers" on you!)
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:47 pm

Vio wrote:
I care more about having that pilot well rested and properly trained. I couldn't give two &*#s how he looked.


I'm the same way, but as long as there are more pilots than positions available, the airlines have to sort through the candidates one way or another. Thats just a reality.

Hair will grow out again, but you only get one chance at a job interview.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:04 pm

Vio wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Probably reflects in your work ethic as well. Not sure what religion has do do with the OP question.


You know nothing of my work ethic. Considering I flew in some of the worst environment on this planet (the Canadian Arctic) for many years and now fly for an airline, I think it's good enough. My experience, skills and knowledge have nothing to do with having a "tattoo or long hair in a bun" (neither of which I posses), but I don't see how appearance influences on your professionalism as a pilot. What can one say about a pilot with a huge gut? Is that not "unprofessional"? (never mind unhealthy and could be a flight safety issue if he "auto feathers" on you!)


I have worked with a number of Air Canada crews in the past and they are all consummate professionals. Congratulations on your past experience as well. Having said that, I'm not sure where you're coming from with your defense of the long hair/tattoo issues other than maybe that's your personal taste in life style issues. I just don't think a pilot stands much of a chance getting that great airline job if he shows up in HR with that look. the injection of religion into the discussion makes me wonder if there aren't bigger issues?
 
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Vio
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:28 pm

BravoOne wrote:
I have worked with a number of Air Canada crews in the past and they are all consummate professionals. Congratulations on your past experience as well. Having said that, I'm not sure where you're coming from with your defense of the long hair/tattoo issues other than maybe that's your personal taste in life style issues. I just don't think a pilot stands much of a chance getting that great airline job if he shows up in HR with that look. the injection of religion into the discussion makes me wonder if there aren't bigger issues?


I'm just saying that the rules for long hair / tattoos are a little outdated. There's no reason why you can't have a pilot wearing short sleeve and have a tattoo (as long as it's not offensive). Why would one accommodate "standard appearance" to please religious groups and not someone with a tattoo or long hair? That's why I made the religious comment. Treat everyone equally and respect their individuality. I agree with you that if you show up with long hair in a bun and a nice short sleeve shirt, sporting a tattoo you may not get that job; but that doesn't mean it's right.

Like I said before. I fly for an airline, I don't have long hair, I don't have tattoos, I wear my uniform with pride, but I would have absolutely no problem changing some of the rules.
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:50 pm

I'm not sure why you think this is appeasing any particular group, much less a specific religious one??? I'm pretty much an agnostic and think it looks dumb, but I'm only one so... Maybe spending so much time here in Seattle and seeing the daily freak show has me jaded. The good news is that NONE of these folks are likely to find a job at the airlines I ride on.
 
p277
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:09 pm

large UK legacy carrier:
NO long hair, must not touch collar. NO piercings. NO visible tattoos whenever wearing uniform.
 
WIederling
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:57 am

p277 wrote:
large UK legacy carrier:
NO long hair, must not touch collar. NO piercings. NO visible tattoos whenever wearing uniform.


How are male Sikh applicants handled ? :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
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TOGA10
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:11 am

WIederling wrote:
p277 wrote:
large UK legacy carrier:
NO long hair, must not touch collar. NO piercings. NO visible tattoos whenever wearing uniform.


How are male Sikh applicants handled ? :-)

I can only hope exactly the same as eveybody else. You want to work for a company that has those rules, you should follow them or not bother applying.
The natural function of the wing is to soar upwards and carry that which is heavy up to the place where dwells the race of gods. More than any other thing that pertains to the body it partakes of the nature of the divine. - Plato
 
notquitepatrick
Topic Author
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:00 pm

I was going to mention exactly the same about Sikhs - because if airlines operate a policy of equality and no discrimination in terms of gender, ethnicity, sexuality and everything else, then if a Sikh has to cut off his top knot in order to comply, or if he is refused a job on grounds of appearance then he would have grounds for discrimination, wouldn't he? Of course he may not be told this is what he was refused for but you get my drift.

As there are women pilots too who have their hair below the collar, but neatly tied back, then shouldn't the same apply to males?

I am with Vio on this one. I know first impressions count for a lot, but as long as someone looks professional and presentable, then hair length shouldn't be an issue. I can see that yes, if it were very long, there might be an issue of safety, but shoulder length, tied back, is hardly revolutionary! People resisting it may be more guided by tradition and fear of change than anything else, when really other matters should come into play like how good he is at his job!
 
VSMUT
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:56 pm

notquitepatrick wrote:
I was going to mention exactly the same about Sikhs - because if airlines operate a policy of equality and no discrimination in terms of gender, ethnicity, sexuality and everything else, then if a Sikh has to cut off his top knot in order to comply, or if he is refused a job on grounds of appearance then he would have grounds for discrimination, wouldn't he? Of course he may not be told this is what he was refused for but you get my drift.


The European Court of Justice has ruled that it is not discrimination for a workplace to ban religious garments.
 
notquitepatrick
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:35 pm

Hair isn't 'religious garments' though
 
VSMUT
Posts: 1344
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:35 am

notquitepatrick wrote:
Hair isn't 'religious garments' though


Nope, but the general message was very clear though, and it does affect their turbans. The Sikh's certainly think it is relevant to them:

https://www.sikh24.com/2017/03/15/sikh- ... nd-europe/
 
notquitepatrick
Topic Author
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:57 pm

Thanks - but still doesn't answer the question on female pilots being permitted to wear hair longer than the collar but tied back in a neat and professional way.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:35 pm

notquitepatrick wrote:
Thanks - but still doesn't answer the question on female pilots being permitted to wear hair longer than the collar but tied back in a neat and professional way.



Well why don't you try it and report back to us disbelievers. Some people just don't seem to grasp the facts.

FWIW.. Boeing has an engineer that works in Flight Deck,. The guy is young and brilliant. He looks like maybe he has been on the streets. BUT, he is not in the public eye unless he of course is making a presentation to some group. As good as he is, he would not pass muster at any US airline. I do see some pilots at Lufty wearing some pretty good shags once and awhile, so you might want to try over there.

All the best:)
 
fr8mech
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:09 pm

notquitepatrick wrote:
Thanks - but still doesn't answer the question on female pilots being permitted to wear hair longer than the collar but tied back in a neat and professional way.


Because it is a generally accepted norm that women will have longer hair than men.

Maybe you don't get this, but first impressions are important. And, one thing that airlines, in general, want, is someone that can adapt to a given situation, whether that situation be on the flight deck, or in the interview room.

Appropriate grooming standards are set by the operator...that's it. Comply with them, or be shown the door.

I recall a student in my public speaking class that wanted to take a stand about the dress code applied when presenting. He wore a sleeveless shirt, much like a woman might wear. He was marked down harshly for "appropriate dress".
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
notquitepatrick
Topic Author
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:52 pm

BravoOne wrote:
notquitepatrick wrote:
Thanks - but still doesn't answer the question on female pilots being permitted to wear hair longer than the collar but tied back in a neat and professional way.



Well why don't you try it and report back to us disbelievers. Some people just don't seem to grasp the facts.

FWIW.. Boeing has an engineer that works in Flight Deck,. The guy is young and brilliant. He looks like maybe he has been on the streets. BUT, he is not in the public eye unless he of course is making a presentation to some group. As good as he is, he would not pass muster at any US airline. I do see some pilots at Lufty wearing some pretty good shags once and awhile, so you might want to try over there.

All the best:)



Oh I'm not asking on behalf of myself - I just posed the question, that's all :)
 
p277
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Re: Can male pilots (UK) have longer hair if tied back or up?

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:16 am

WIederling wrote:
p277 wrote:
large UK legacy carrier:
NO long hair, must not touch collar. NO piercings. NO visible tattoos whenever wearing uniform.


How are male Sikh applicants handled ? :-)


Don't know about applicants, but current serving Sikh pilots wear turbans. I have seen a couple.
Have also flown with one or two who do not wear them, but have short, conservative haircuts.

Fwiw, uniform standard guidance is different wrt hair and "jewellery" for men and women.

Also, I think people need to understand the flightdeck/cockpit is a place of standards and fairly "uniform" (pardon the pun!) standards too.
There is no room for "oh but it's 2017 and people do this and that". The standard is conservative full stop. There are plenty of candidates (more than there are available seats!) who will more than happily accept that.

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