dreamtakeoff
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“FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:41 am

Hi, everyone,
this is my first post in the forum, :p
I’m curious of the “FLT L/G DOWN” msg on upper ECAM, EWD advisory section(bottom right corner, same place when “APU AVAIL” shows)
And the aircraft is A330.
Why does it appear when IRS are off? (Rotary align switches on overhead panel)
Does it have some kind of special meaning or just simply to notify flight/ground crew that L/Gs are down?
Why does it relate to IRS system?
And why not shows when the landing gears are down?(when IRS are not yet been turned off)

Thanks for helping out!
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:22 pm

Interesting. According to the FCOM, "FLT L/G DOWN" only appears during ferry flights with the gear down, and that section doesn't even apply to all of our tails. Can't find any more details beyond that.

It doesn't come up if the ADIRS are just off. (Note the rotary switches are for ADIRS, of which IR is a subset. The IR specific pushbuttons are below the ADIRS rotary switches.)
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
dreamtakeoff
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:54 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
Interesting. According to the FCOM, "FLT L/G DOWN" only appears during ferry flights with the gear down, and that section doesn't even apply to all of our tails. Can't find any more details beyond that.

It doesn't come up if the ADIRS are just off. (Note the rotary switches are for ADIRS, of which IR is a subset. The IR specific pushbuttons are below the ADIRS rotary switches.)


Hi, Starlionblue,
Thank you for pointed out, I mean the ADIRS rotary switches! And I found something interesting is that the IR pushbuttons are above rotary switches in my company, and there are ADR pushputtons below the rotary switches! Is it tailor-made?

I didn't find the information in our FCOM, and the msg doesn't appear in all of our tails, either. :o
I confirmed it by a task in trouble shooting manual - "Memo FLT L/G DOWN shown when ADRs are off". And there's no maintenance action needed, with a note "The memo goes out of view when a minimum of one ADIRU starts again".
Oh! Is this because the ADIRS rotary switches turn off the ADRs? We usually turn the rotary switches off, not individual IR or ADR pushputtons.

And thanks for the quick reply!
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:37 am

I don't know. Never seen or heard of this message before this thread.

The IR pushbuttons are below the switches at my company as well. Weird. The pushbuttons are not touched unless you need to turn off a specific function (ADR or IR) due to a fault. The rotary switches are used pre and post flight.

Can you post the picture so we can all have a look?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
dreamtakeoff
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:44 am

Starlionblue wrote:
I don't know. Never seen or heard of this message before this thread.

The IR pushbuttons are below the switches at my company as well. Weird. The pushbuttons are not touched unless you need to turn off a specific function (ADR or IR) due to a fault. The rotary switches are used pre and post flight.

Can you post the picture so we can all have a look?


Hi, Starlionblue,
(excuse me for spending some time trying to put images online)
here are the photos of the ADIRS panel and the msg.(They were taken at a different time.)
Image
Image

Btw, English is not my native language, if I make mistakes, please correct me. :P
And thanks, I see why the pushbuttons are always in.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:31 am

I'm embarassed now. I remembered it wrong. I checked the FCOM as well as some pictures. The IR switches are indeed at the top in our aircraft. It's just one of those things I've never thought about but obviously if I have to press a button I'll check the label first.

Unfortunately your second picture isn't showing.

Side note: One of the nice things about this forum is that it really makes me dig into the manuals. :D
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
dreamtakeoff
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:11 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
I'm embarassed now. I remembered it wrong. I checked the FCOM as well as some pictures. The IR switches are indeed at the top in our aircraft. It's just one of those things I've never thought about but obviously if I have to press a button I'll check the label first.

Unfortunately your second picture isn't showing.

Side note: One of the nice things about this forum is that it really makes me dig into the manuals. :D


Hi, Starlionblue,
Oh, no, I can see the pic somehow.
I reattach now. Does it show up?
Image

I thought the arrangement is just a tailor difference. It's like I've seen a picture of external light switches of A330 are off when putting aftward, but in my company fleet they are forward. And yeah, we always get to check labels first!

And thanks to you and this forum that I get the chance to learn!
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:14 pm

Never seen that message. Can't help you further sorry.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
dreamtakeoff
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:18 pm

Starlionblue wrote:
Never seen that message. Can't help you further sorry.


Hi, Starlionblue,
It's ok, thanks a whole lot! :D
Good day.
 
Apprentice
Posts: 368
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:20 pm

Hi:
Those Green Messages are not about faults, but just reminder of a condition, selected by crew (and no "common" for a cruise flt)
In this case:
"N/WS DISC": Normally means, Steering By pass pin "in". i.e. NO Steering control available.
Message "APU Avail": APU is on, But no load is taken from it. (Normally, when Ground Power is used and APU is running, on ground) , as soon as GPU is disconnected, this msg will be erased. or when APU is started in flight but Engine are on Generators are powering the system
and last but.. "FLT L/G Down" don't know exactly, (because of "FLT") .
(Out of Memory, but don't beg on it, for Ferry Flights, with LG Down, a dispatch procedure on CU has to be performed, and this msg is indicative of..) Sorry, long time since A330 days, and no manuals with me..... Any one..
Again, MSGs are GREEN , showing a normal condition

RGDS
A "NO" is a positive answer., "DON'T KNOW" is not. My Tutor
 
Apprentice
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:42 pm

Hi, and hard thinking about, first message, may appear also in Flt, LG down. In this condition Steering will be not Operative, till NLG Strut will be compressed and respective position switch activated.
So my best bet at this time (don't do it please) is: a ferry Flt, with LG down, (NWS DISC & FLT L/G DOWN) and APU still (or already) started but not powering electrical buses: APU Avail.
Accept corrections/
RGDS
A "NO" is a positive answer., "DON'T KNOW" is not. My Tutor
 
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zeke
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:11 pm

The message is a function of the FWC standard embodied on the aircraft, to find out the actual logic behind it, one would need to have access to the ECAM system logic data (ESLD) manual for that FWC standard.

With the ADIRS rotary in the OFF position the FWC would not be receiving valid air data, somehow it meets the FWC logic in the ESLD to generate the ECAM memo FLT L/G DOWN. This maybe due to the way the FWC with that software version works out what phase the aircraft is in. The FWC also uses valid data as well as other inputs to determine the flight phase (which is different to the flight phases in the FMEGC).
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Flow2706
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:49 pm

I don't have access to the A330 manuals, but I found a description in the A320 Manual: "FLT L/G DOWN: This memo appears in green if the aircraft is operated in ferry flight conditions with landing gear down" (DSC 32-10-40) On the A320 there is a switch on the 188VU panel in the avionic compartment which is used if dispatching with the gear down. The Vmo/Mmo (for the EIS/FWS) is changed from the normal Vle to a lower value for planned flights with gear down (235kts/Mach .060 for A320). It seems that this message indicates that this switch was activated. I guess there is a similar logic on the A330.
 
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zeke
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:05 am

That does not explain why the ECAM memo appeared without that being activated, just with the ADIRUs being turned off.

It just says what it is supposed to be used for which everyone knows.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Apprentice
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:27 am

Hi: since MD11 times, activation of IRS rotary switchs (no only one) was a precondition that indicated that a/c was starting a preflight procedure behind a flight.
On MD11 for instance, 3 IRS sw to “ON”, started automatic preflight checks, that on DC-10 was made by FE. For instance, all ahydraulic systems test were performed, or, Brake Off, in preparation for push back, initiated cargo doors closed indications system A and B.

Don,t have access to manuals, but, may be IRS switch to on, with LG switch on “Ferry” , ... have to check

Rgds
A "NO" is a positive answer., "DON'T KNOW" is not. My Tutor
 
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TOGA10
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:11 am

Apprentice wrote:
Hi:
Those Green Messages are not about faults, but just reminder of a condition, selected by crew (and no "common" for a cruise flt)
In this case:
Message "APU Avail": APU is on, But no load is taken from it. (Normally, when Ground Power is used and APU is running, on ground) , as soon as GPU is disconnected, this msg will be erased. or when APU is started in flight but Engine are on Generators are powering the system.
Again, MSGs are GREEN , showing a normal condition

RGDS

Hi Apprentice, sorry to go off topic for a bit. Not sure if there is a difference between the 320 and 330 on this, but on the 320 the APU AVAIL msg is shown whenever the APU is running and no bleed is being taken from it. So when the APU is running and even with GPU connected, it will still show APU avail. As soon as the APU Bleed p/b is pushed, it will show APU BLEED.
This memo appears in green, when APU N is above 99.5 % or 2 s after N is above 95 % (depending on the aircraft configuration).
Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong or if it's different in the 330.
Cheers, TOGA10
The natural function of the wing is to soar upwards and carry that which is heavy up to the place where dwells the race of gods. More than any other thing that pertains to the body it partakes of the nature of the divine. - Plato
 
Apprentice
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:51 am

Hi ToGa 10: For me is the same philosofy- behaviour, just unable to check. No biblio, no Airbys for the moment..
Anyone?

Many Thanks/ Rgds
A "NO" is a positive answer., "DON'T KNOW" is not. My Tutor
 
dreamtakeoff
Topic Author
Posts: 10
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:53 pm

Apprentice wrote:
Hi:
Those Green Messages are not about faults, but just reminder of a condition, selected by crew (and no "common" for a cruise flt)
In this case:
"N/WS DISC": Normally means, Steering By pass pin "in". i.e. NO Steering control available.
Message "APU Avail": APU is on, But no load is taken from it. (Normally, when Ground Power is used and APU is running, on ground) , as soon as GPU is disconnected, this msg will be erased. or when APU is started in flight but Engine are on Generators are powering the system
and last but.. "FLT L/G Down" don't know exactly, (because of "FLT") .
(Out of Memory, but don't beg on it, for Ferry Flights, with LG Down, a dispatch procedure on CU has to be performed, and this msg is indicative of..) Sorry, long time since A330 days, and no manuals with me..... Any one..
Again, MSGs are GREEN , showing a normal condition

RGDS


Hi, Apprentice,
Thanks for the detailed explanations of messages!
 
dreamtakeoff
Topic Author
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:20 am

Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:31 am

zeke wrote:
The message is a function of the FWC standard embodied on the aircraft, to find out the actual logic behind it, one would need to have access to the ECAM system logic data (ESLD) manual for that FWC standard.

With the ADIRS rotary in the OFF position the FWC would not be receiving valid air data, somehow it meets the FWC logic in the ESLD to generate the ECAM memo FLT L/G DOWN. This maybe due to the way the FWC with that software version works out what phase the aircraft is in. The FWC also uses valid data as well as other inputs to determine the flight phase (which is different to the flight phases in the FMEGC).


Hi, zeke,
Thanks for the information, I get to know more of the logic behind FWC!
I'll try to look into the ESLD.
 
dreamtakeoff
Topic Author
Posts: 10
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:37 am

Flow2706 wrote:
I don't have access to the A330 manuals, but I found a description in the A320 Manual: "FLT L/G DOWN: This memo appears in green if the aircraft is operated in ferry flight conditions with landing gear down" (DSC 32-10-40) On the A320 there is a switch on the 188VU panel in the avionic compartment which is used if dispatching with the gear down. The Vmo/Mmo (for the EIS/FWS) is changed from the normal Vle to a lower value for planned flights with gear down (235kts/Mach .060 for A320). It seems that this message indicates that this switch was activated. I guess there is a similar logic on the A330.


Hi, Flow2706,
Cool! Maybe there is a switch like A320 on A330.
 
dreamtakeoff
Topic Author
Posts: 10
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Re: “FLT L/G DOWN”msg on EWD advisory

Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:12 am

TOGA10 wrote:
Apprentice wrote:
Hi:
Those Green Messages are not about faults, but just reminder of a condition, selected by crew (and no "common" for a cruise flt)
In this case:
Message "APU Avail": APU is on, But no load is taken from it. (Normally, when Ground Power is used and APU is running, on ground) , as soon as GPU is disconnected, this msg will be erased. or when APU is started in flight but Engine are on Generators are powering the system.
Again, MSGs are GREEN , showing a normal condition

RGDS

Hi Apprentice, sorry to go off topic for a bit. Not sure if there is a difference between the 320 and 330 on this, but on the 320 the APU AVAIL msg is shown whenever the APU is running and no bleed is being taken from it. So when the APU is running and even with GPU connected, it will still show APU avail. As soon as the APU Bleed p/b is pushed, it will show APU BLEED.
This memo appears in green, when APU N is above 99.5 % or 2 s after N is above 95 % (depending on the aircraft configuration).
Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong or if it's different in the 330.
Cheers, TOGA10


Hi, TOGA10,
Cool, I don't know about 320, what will the configuration be to have different timing that shows the memo?
In 330, the APU AVAIL shows when N is above 95% and the APU BLEED shows when APU Bleed p/b is pushed.

I don't know if the APU AVAIL will show when GPU is used, because we usually use GPU when APU is inoperative, or the ground air-cond when not using the APU bleed. Will gas from the GPU or the ground air-cond cart jam the APU bleed?

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