barney captain
Topic Author
Posts: 1715
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UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:16 am

How often does this happen that the routing would take it over Greenland and Europe? I'm sure it's wind dependant, but a quick search of the history shows (what I would assume) to be a more normal routing over the Pacific. I have to believe the Atlantic routing would provide tailwinds most of the time, but must be considerably farther.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 79#fb6e1bd
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Delta757MD88
Posts: 108
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:48 am

Today's (1 am departure on Dec. 2) CX899 took an easterly route as well.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 99#fb57505
Flown on: MD-88/90 DC-9 717 737-7/8/900, 757-2/300, 767-3/400 777-200/300ER 787-9, E145/170/175, CRJ-100/200/700/900, A319/320 A333 Q400.
 
ual763
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:51 am

It looks easterly, which it is technically, but remember the distortion on this map towards the top and bottom edges. EWR-HKG is pretty much always flown very close to the North Pole. This one just has a slight easterly component, which is most likely due to the winds as you said. It just looks terribly different because of the distortion up top.
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:07 am

Is this the routing over ABERI?
 
barney captain
Topic Author
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:53 am

ual763 wrote:
It looks easterly, which it is technically, but remember the distortion on this map towards the top and bottom edges. EWR-HKG is pretty much always flown very close to the North Pole. This one just has a slight easterly component, which is most likely due to the winds as you said. It just looks terribly different because of the distortion up top.


Good point UA -

I will be curious to see the actual lat/long points....
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travaz
Posts: 446
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:30 am

The flight Exited Greenland at 83.249778, -27.750758. Crossed the northern tip of Severny Island
Novaya Zemlya Rayon
Arkhangelsk Oblast, Russia
76.786504, 67.522679
Entered Mainland Russia at Dikson Russia 75.513077, 80.511677
Was currently located at 65.863267, 95.354762
Looks like it is going right over top of PEK on into HKG

The Lat Long are approximations from the routing on Flight Radar 24 and Google maps. Interesting route for sure.
 
barney captain
Topic Author
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:37 am

travaz wrote:
The flight Exited Greenland at 83.249778, -27.750758. Crossed the northern tip of Severny Island
Novaya Zemlya Rayon
Arkhangelsk Oblast, Russia
76.786504, 67.522679
Entered Mainland Russia at Dikson Russia 75.513077, 80.511677
Was currently located at 65.863267, 95.354762
Looks like it is going right over top of PEK on into HKG

The Lat Long are approximations from the routing on Flight Radar 24 and Google maps. Interesting route for sure.


Thank you so much for that!

Yea, I was quite surprised by the routing to be sure. Can anyone compare the mileage differences? All I get from GC Mapper is a straight shot over the pole.
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len90
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:07 am

UA86 and UA89 (Shanghai and Beijing) also look like they flew a similar pattern.
Len90
 
SXDFC
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:25 am

barney captain wrote:
travaz wrote:
The flight Exited Greenland at 83.249778, -27.750758. Crossed the northern tip of Severny Island
Novaya Zemlya Rayon
Arkhangelsk Oblast, Russia
76.786504, 67.522679
Entered Mainland Russia at Dikson Russia 75.513077, 80.511677
Was currently located at 65.863267, 95.354762
Looks like it is going right over top of PEK on into HKG

The Lat Long are approximations from the routing on Flight Radar 24 and Google maps. Interesting route for sure.


Thank you so much for that!

Yea, I was quite surprised by the routing to be sure. Can anyone compare the mileage differences? All I get from GC Mapper is a straight shot over the pole.


With some of that information, could you some how manage to get a "rough draft" with it using your EFB?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
TRey72
Posts: 1
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:01 am

Routing for UA179...for those that speak the language

GREKI JUDDS MARTN YSC YBC AVUTI 6400N/05000W 7000N/04000W 7700N/02000W 7900N/00000E 8000N/02000E PIREL R705 TESLA R705 KOSUM R705 BRT G490 SERNA Y520 POLHO G218 TMR B458 WXI A461 LIG R473 NIVEM R473 NNX R473 WYN W18 NLG W23 ZUH R473 SIERA
 
FA9295
Posts: 179
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:04 am

UA180 (the returning flight back to EWR) appears to going back in the opposite direction; over the pacific this time: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL ... /VHHH/KEWR
 
flyfresno
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:13 am

Going to see 2 sunsets in 1 flight...
 
raylee67
Posts: 369
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:59 am

I think it flies east more often than not. I did CX EWR-HKG several times and it flies northeast over Newfoundland, Greenland and northern Norway every time.

Whereas ORD-HKG and YYZ-HKG are always, in my experience, straight north over Hudson Bay and Baffin Island or slightly northwestwards over Manitoba and Nunavut
319 320 321 332 333 342 343 345 388 707 717 732 736 73G 738 739 74R 742 743 744 74E 748 757 762 763 772 77E 77L 773 77W D10 M80 135 140 145 175 190 DH1 DH4 CRJ CR7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
covert
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:41 am

G490 was one of the first "Polar" airways.
none
 
barney captain
Topic Author
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:35 am

SXDFC wrote:
barney captain wrote:
travaz wrote:
The flight Exited Greenland at 83.249778, -27.750758. Crossed the northern tip of Severny Island
Novaya Zemlya Rayon
Arkhangelsk Oblast, Russia
76.786504, 67.522679
Entered Mainland Russia at Dikson Russia 75.513077, 80.511677
Was currently located at 65.863267, 95.354762
Looks like it is going right over top of PEK on into HKG

The Lat Long are approximations from the routing on Flight Radar 24 and Google maps. Interesting route for sure.


Thank you so much for that!

Yea, I was quite surprised by the routing to be sure. Can anyone compare the mileage differences? All I get from GC Mapper is a straight shot over the pole.


With some of that information, could you some how manage to get a "rough draft" with it using your EFB?


Unfortunately our EFB nav database only covers North, Central and part of South America.
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User avatar
zeke
Posts: 11518
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:04 am

TRey72 wrote:
Routing for UA179...for those that speak the language

GREKI JUDDS MARTN YSC YBC AVUTI 6400N/05000W 7000N/04000W 7700N/02000W 7900N/00000E 8000N/02000E PIREL R705 TESLA R705 KOSUM R705 BRT G490 SERNA Y520 POLHO G218 TMR B458 WXI A461 LIG R473 NIVEM R473 NNX R473 WYN W18 NLG W23 ZUH R473 SIERA


Great circle track and filed route

Image
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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zeke
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:11 am

barney captain wrote:

Thank you so much for that!

Yea, I was quite surprised by the routing to be sure. Can anyone compare the mileage differences? All I get from GC Mapper is a straight shot over the pole.


Great circle - 7,009 nm
Filed route - 7,412 nm (+5.7%)

However with that route there would be an average of around 25 kts of tailwind

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=KEWR-VHHH% ... =wls&DU=nm
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
ltbewr
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:11 pm

Let's not forget that actual routes vs. 'great circle' routes included access to possible diversion airports, wind patterns, overflight rights or where for national security certain areas are banned for overflights.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:32 pm

raylee67 wrote:
I think it flies east more often than not. I did CX EWR-HKG several times and it flies northeast over Newfoundland, Greenland and northern Norway every time.

Whereas ORD-HKG and YYZ-HKG are always, in my experience, straight north over Hudson Bay and Baffin Island or slightly northwestwards over Manitoba and Nunavut


Personal experience speaking, there was one or two times when I rode ORD-HKG that it took the eastern routing also.

As for UA179, it actually fly east more than you think. It may also be season related also (I believe it fly east more often in the winter, I may be totally wrong, though).
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:54 am

For comparison, the HKG-EWR route over Anchorage is a bit more than 7700 nm.

flyfresno wrote:
Going to see 2 sunsets in 1 flight...


Unlike CX899, which in this season flies in total darkness for 15 hours.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
barney captain
Topic Author
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:19 am

Zeke/Starlion -

Great data thank you. The routing on these LH sectors that can go east or west is fascinating - likely because I've never been up in front for one to see it play out (and unless Mr. K gets a wild idea, probably never will).
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zeke
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:59 am

Stay short haul working days, you will live 5-10 years more. You are not missing anything.

If you get the the idea you might like it say goodbye to your family and friends.

Turn the TV on in a dark room with no fresh air and the temperature set low, say in an uncomfortable chair with a vacuum cleaner on nearby and then stay awake for 18 hours. Go to bed in a room with the lights on and traffic, sirens, horns, and construction outside. Repeat again 24 hrs later.

After the second lot of 18 hrs say hello with your friends and family again.

That should fix any desire you may have ever had of doing that, if it doesn’t, keep repeating the same process.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 18032
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Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:12 am

zeke wrote:
Stay short haul working days, you will live 5-10 years more. You are not missing anything.

If you get the the idea you might like it say goodbye to your family and friends.

Turn the TV on in a dark room with no fresh air and the temperature set low, say in an uncomfortable chair with a vacuum cleaner on nearby and then stay awake for 18 hours. Go to bed in a room with the lights on and traffic, sirens, horns, and construction outside. Repeat again 24 hrs later.

After the second lot of 18 hrs say hello with your friends and family again.

That should fix any desire you may have ever had of doing that, if it doesn’t, keep repeating the same process.


Pretty much this.

It was somewhat interesting once but I have no desire to repeat the experience. 15-16 hour flights seem disproportionately more zombiefying than 10-12 hour flights.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
barney captain
Topic Author
Posts: 1715
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: UA179 EWR-HKG Easterly Routing

Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:15 am

Starlionblue wrote:
zeke wrote:
Stay short haul working days, you will live 5-10 years more. You are not missing anything.

If you get the the idea you might like it say goodbye to your family and friends.

Turn the TV on in a dark room with no fresh air and the temperature set low, say in an uncomfortable chair with a vacuum cleaner on nearby and then stay awake for 18 hours. Go to bed in a room with the lights on and traffic, sirens, horns, and construction outside. Repeat again 24 hrs later.

After the second lot of 18 hrs say hello with your friends and family again.

That should fix any desire you may have ever had of doing that, if it doesn’t, keep repeating the same process.


Pretty much this.

It was somewhat interesting once but I have no desire to repeat the experience. 15-16 hour flights seem disproportionately more zombiefying than 10-12 hour flights.



Fair enough gentlemen, and I appreciate the insight. :)

It's the old adage of wanting want you can't have I suppose. Still, after a quarter century of doing the same thing, I wouldn't mind foregoing LBB for CDG for a few years. Apparently we may finally get to at least break the seal on ETOPS with Hawaii - that in itself will be a welcome change. :)
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