BREECH
Topic Author
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 am

Cabin lengths and galleys size

Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:16 pm

Hello, my fellow A.netters. I know that people here know everything, and I need a sip of that knowledge. Here is what I need (or rather want) to know. It mostly concerns the internal layouts of aircraft.

- Internal length (not width) of aircraft. My biggest points of interest are A330-200 and -300 and Boeing 777-200 and -300. But if someone has a table with other types I'd greatly appreciate it. Width is readily available everywhere but somehow lengths I cannot find.

- I see lots of information about seat width and pitch. But I've never seen any info on how much space a galley or a lavatory "module" takes. Does anyone have or know where I can get find this information? As far as I understand both 777 and A330 have "freestyle layout" where they can place those "blocks" anywhere in the cabin.

- Are partitions mandatory in an airplane or can you have just one cabin stretching the full length of an aircraft?

It's not questions that I need for some kind of survey or school work. I'm just very curious and I like to play with "possible" layouts to see how many passengers can fit into an airplane in this or that config. Any help would be much appreciated. Seeking "collaboration", too, so if you're as crazy as me, don't hesitate to drop me a note. :-)
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
superjeff
Posts: 940
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Cabin lengths and galleys size

Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:33 pm

BREECH wrote:
Hello, my fellow A.netters. I know that people here know everything, and I need a sip of that knowledge. Here is what I need (or rather want) to know. It mostly concerns the internal layouts of aircraft.

- Internal length (not width) of aircraft. My biggest points of interest are A330-200 and -300 and Boeing 777-200 and -300. But if someone has a table with other types I'd greatly appreciate it. Width is readily available everywhere but somehow lengths I cannot find.

- I see lots of information about seat width and pitch. But I've never seen any info on how much space a galley or a lavatory "module" takes. Does anyone have or know where I can get find this information? As far as I understand both 777 and A330 have "freestyle layout" where they can place those "blocks" anywhere in the cabin.

- Are partitions mandatory in an airplane or can you have just one cabin stretching the full length of an aircraft?

It's not questions that I need for some kind of survey or school work. I'm just very curious and I like to play with "possible" layouts to see how many passengers can fit into an airplane in this or that config. Any help would be much appreciated. Seeking "collaboration", too, so if you're as crazy as me, don't hesitate to drop me a note. :-)


It varies by airline and configuration. Some airlines have a "denser" configuration and may have more seats with less galley space (i.e., some of the "ULLC" carriers now flying longhaul). For example, Norwegian, Scoot, Jetstar, etc. have more seats and less elaborate meal service so may need smaller galleys than some of the more "prestigious" legacies (read Cathay Pacific, Singapore, etc.). Also, some airlines have more (or fewer) lavatories, and, nowadays, some of the airlines have space-saver lavatories that are even smaller - I just flew a BA 787-9 London to Los Angeles, and the mid cabin lavs between Premium Economy (World Traveler Plus) and Economy (World Traveler) had a collapsible divider in the center so they could block off both sides if necessary to fit a wheelchair (aisle chair) if necessary.

I know you're particularly interested in A300's and 777's, but you will also find this (and often more obvious) on narrowbody equipment, like Airbus A319's, A320's, and A321's, as well as various models of the Boeing 737's. Some of those airplanes have even replaced full galleys with half size galleys (or even none).

As for partitions, it is pretty much up to the airlines to determine configuration. They have to be able to evacuate a plane in 90 seconds and can't go beyond what the plane is certified for, but, beyond that, it is pretty much unregulated as to how they use that space.
 
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Matt6461
Posts: 2389
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:36 pm

Re: Cabin lengths and galleys size

Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:12 pm

You can get a decently precise figure for cabin lengths from airport planning document for a given type. Find the page that lists distances from nose to doors for inter-door cabin lengths then eye-ball the cabin lengths aft and fore the doors. You'll be accurate to within a foot at most.
 
BREECH
Topic Author
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 am

Re: Cabin lengths and galleys size

Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:24 pm

superjeff wrote:
I know you're particularly interested in A300's and 777's, but you will also find this (and often more obvious) on narrowbody equipment, like Airbus A319's, A320's, and A321's, as well as various models of the Boeing 737's. Some of those airplanes have even replaced full galleys with half size galleys (or even none).

The reason I'm interested in A330 and 777 is because they must be a helluva fun to work with configuration-wise. You can use different widths of seats and play with the pitch in huge variations. A320 and B737 are a bit boring that way. Whatever you do, it's still 6-abreast in eco or 4-abreast in business.

I always wondered how many passengers could A330 or 777 take in all-business or all-first configuration. A380 is even more interesting in that aspect but it's almost impossible to calculate anything since it is infinitely customizable.

Thank you for the information, though.
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
mat66
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:12 am

Re: Cabin lengths and galleys size

Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:35 pm

from airbus.com : cabin length A330-200 45.00m A330-300 50.35m

I guess that is cockpit door to rear end of aft galley.
 
Jetmarc
Posts: 465
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:54 am

Re: Cabin lengths and galleys size

Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:44 am

BREECH wrote:
- Are partitions mandatory in an airplane or can you have just one cabin stretching the full length of an aircraft?


Always found this photo quite amazing...

Canada 3000 A330:

"Sucka, I'm gonna send you out on Knuckle Airlines. Fist Class!!" ~ Mr. T
 
BREECH
Topic Author
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 am

Re: Cabin lengths and galleys size

Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:43 am

Jetmarc wrote:
Always found this photo quite amazing...

Canada 3000 A330:


NO WAY! That is unbelievably cool!
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
BREECH
Topic Author
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 am

Re: Cabin lengths and galleys size

Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:45 am

mat66 wrote:
from airbus.com : cabin length A330-200 45.00m A330-300 50.35m

I guess that is cockpit door to rear end of aft galley.

Thanks, Mat. That's actually a good question. How is internal cabin length measured? Cockpit door to rear bulkhead? Or just the usable space?
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
lucce
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:12 pm

Re: Cabin lengths and galleys size

Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:04 pm

I used to draw aircraft cabins just for fun/to practise my autocad skills so I get you. Boeing measurements can be found from here:http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/plan_manuals.page

To estimate galley sizes, one full size cart is roughly 30cm*80cm so leave them around 33cm*85cm in total per cart. The amount of carts depends on the airlines and service class though, try looking at existing layouts to estimate the need. Lavatories are trickier but id say around 85cm*100cm is typical.
 
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MoKa777
Posts: 572
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:47 am

Re: Cabin lengths and galleys size

Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:00 pm

BREECH wrote:
Hello, my fellow A.netters. I know that people here know everything, and I need a sip of that knowledge. Here is what I need (or rather want) to know. It mostly concerns the internal layouts of aircraft.

- Internal length (not width) of aircraft. My biggest points of interest are A330-200 and -300 and Boeing 777-200 and -300. But if someone has a table with other types I'd greatly appreciate it. Width is readily available everywhere but somehow lengths I cannot find.

- I see lots of information about seat width and pitch. But I've never seen any info on how much space a galley or a lavatory "module" takes. Does anyone have or know where I can get find this information? As far as I understand both 777 and A330 have "freestyle layout" where they can place those "blocks" anywhere in the cabin.

- Are partitions mandatory in an airplane or can you have just one cabin stretching the full length of an aircraft?

It's not questions that I need for some kind of survey or school work. I'm just very curious and I like to play with "possible" layouts to see how many passengers can fit into an airplane in this or that config. Any help would be much appreciated. Seeking "collaboration", too, so if you're as crazy as me, don't hesitate to drop me a note. :-)


I can totally relate! Glad there is someone else out there who is just as "crazy"!

In addition to the things you mentioned, I am very intrigued by all these newfangled J seats (staggered, reverse herringbone, herringbone, etc.) and the dimensions of these.

Airbus Aircraft Characteristics documents and the new Boeing ones have decent info that allows for fairly accurate estimations. I always do my own estimations from those documents and then base it on an airline's existing layout to see how accurate I am. It comes quite close. Crazy close a lot of the time.
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
BREECH
Topic Author
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 am

Re: Cabin lengths and galleys size

Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:33 pm

lucce wrote:
I used to draw aircraft cabins just for fun/to practise my autocad skills so I get you. Boeing measurements can be found from here:http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/plan_manuals.page

To estimate galley sizes, one full size cart is roughly 30cm*80cm so leave them around 33cm*85cm in total per cart. The amount of carts depends on the airlines and service class though, try looking at existing layouts to estimate the need. Lavatories are trickier but id say around 85cm*100cm is typical.

AHA! I knew I wasn't the only one. :-) Thank you very much for the info. I'm starting to get the size of it. I guess you'll need to add some space for FAs in the galley, not just carts. :-) Boeing keeps touting their "convertible" lavatories and how they save space, yet I found no info about their size.
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
BREECH
Topic Author
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 am

Re: Cabin lengths and galleys size

Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:38 pm

MoKa777 wrote:
In addition to the things you mentioned, I am very intrigued by all these newfangled J seats (staggered, reverse herringbone, herringbone, etc.) and the dimensions of these.

Oooh, those were fun to look at. Was it Thompson who suggested staggered economy class that gave something like a 19" seat with more passangers than the sardinized Ryanair. I think it was them. Was an interesting concept but there were some safety considerations and the fact that you couldn't talk to the person next to you. (What loss!)

MoKa777 wrote:
Airbus Aircraft Characteristics documents and the new Boeing ones have decent info that allows for fairly accurate estimations. I always do my own estimations from those documents and then base it on an airline's existing layout to see how accurate I am. It comes quite close. Crazy close a lot of the time.

You know, I found a HUGE 777 pdf on Boeing's website. I think it's called airport planning... I may be wrong. It gives tons of numbers, including even the wheels size. What it doesn't have is... the internal dimensions. I checked three times.
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
benbeny
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Cabin lengths and galleys size

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:04 pm

BREECH wrote:
MoKa777 wrote:
In addition to the things you mentioned, I am very intrigued by all these newfangled J seats (staggered, reverse herringbone, herringbone, etc.) and the dimensions of these.

Oooh, those were fun to look at. Was it Thompson who suggested staggered economy class that gave something like a 19" seat with more passangers than the sardinized Ryanair. I think it was them. Was an interesting concept but there were some safety considerations and the fact that you couldn't talk to the person next to you. (What loss!)

MoKa777 wrote:
Airbus Aircraft Characteristics documents and the new Boeing ones have decent info that allows for fairly accurate estimations. I always do my own estimations from those documents and then base it on an airline's existing layout to see how accurate I am. It comes quite close. Crazy close a lot of the time.

You know, I found a HUGE 777 pdf on Boeing's website. I think it's called airport planning... I may be wrong. It gives tons of numbers, including even the wheels size. What it doesn't have is... the internal dimensions. I checked three times.

But it has typical configuration layout. Is it drawn to scale? If yes, it's not that hard to measure.

Haven't checked that by myself tho.
 
BREECH
Topic Author
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 am

Re: Cabin lengths and galleys size

Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:07 am

benbeny wrote:
But it has typical configuration layout. Is it drawn to scale? If yes, it's not that hard to measure.

My engineering and math skills are roughly equal to those of a well-trained giraffe. It does have layouts but I have no idea if they're to scale OR, if they are, how to calculate anything from them. If you ever have time to look at it, please share your findings with me.
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred towards something.
Sergey Dovlatov

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