Tommyroberts
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Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:10 pm

Sorry for quite a harsh title. I would like to work on ramp some day but I'm a bit worried about the dangers of it. People run over by aircraft, sucked into jet engine and so on. Is the ramp a safe place? How can you get hurt, or worse, killed by an aircraft? What do I need to know and be aware of?
 
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Balerit
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:17 pm

How much time do you have.... From being sterilized by a radio machy testing a radar to being caught in the nose landing gear doors while closing them to falling off a cherry picker while cleaning the cockpit windows of a B747 to falling out of the cabin through an open door to exploding wheels....otherwise it's safe for non technical people if you keep your eyes peeled and wear your dayglo orange/yellow vest and keep well away from operational aircraft. As you can see for us engineers it's very dangerous. Engineers have also fallen under the wheels of tugs or even towed aircraft. I have personally seen a man sucked into a jet engine and even once a guy squashed by the hangar doors. :?
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
shamrock137
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:18 pm

While I don't want to downplay it, the ramp can be a dangerous place, most of the injuries I've seen have been from carelessness, not following proper procedure, or negligence as opposed to random factors. If you stay alert, follow proper protocol and don't take risks, its a safe place to be. Theirs always a pressure to get flights out ontime and move quickly, which can be done safely, but when the rush for ontime supersedes the need for safety is when the majority of accidents happen. The vast majority of accidents are slip and falls, cuts, bruises and other minor things as opposed to being run over by an aircraft etc.

The ramp is a great place to work, especially if you're just starting in the industry. Find an airline with good work rules and flight benefits and take advantage of the opportunity to travel the world with almost free flights.
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Balerit
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:23 pm

Just last week an engineer got sucked into an engine when the first officer incorrectly applied power before the guy was clear of the aircraft. We also once had a chock boy walk into the blades of a Hawker Siddely 748 on his first day when he went to put the chocks at the main gear.
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VSMUT
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:37 pm

Watch out for propeller aircraft. Once the engines are spinning, you will have trouble seeing it. With a headset on, you won't even be able to hear it. Generally, just stay a long way away from propellers, even if the aircraft isn't running. On the ATR, the props start spinning in a fraction of a second during engine start, you won't have time to react. Even something as basic as a Cessna 150 can be really nasty if the ignition is inadvertently left on, the wiring is worn and/or battery is on.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:42 pm

Tommyroberts wrote:
Sorry for quite a harsh title. I would like to work on ramp some day but I'm a bit worried about the dangers of it. People run over by aircraft, sucked into jet engine and so on. Is the ramp a safe place? How can you get hurt, or worse, killed by an aircraft? What do I need to know and be aware of?

Garages are dangerous places, machine shops are dangerous places, warehouses are dangerous places. I worked in the water industry; you wouldn't believe the issues involved with that, and I'm not just talking about drowning. Go and visit your local sawmill, and ask everyone there to give you a high-five. I guarantee at least one of the crew will fail that task on account of some missing fingers.

So, it's just a matter of managing the risks, and staying alert. I've never worked on an airport ramp, but I have spent plenty of time walking around between aircraft. I once tripped over a retaining wire in pitch blackness, and cracked my skull on the underside of an F-14 Tomcat. It's no more dangerous than plenty of other careers, but because it happens in a public environment, with large & expensive pieces of metal, it gets noticed.

Enjoy a career in aviation; you'll be fine.
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CanadianNorth
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:34 am

Balerit wrote:
How much time do you have.... ?


Pretty much sums it up.

A few points I can think of:

- Never, ever, get in the way of a propeller, regardless of engines on or off. Piston airplanes all it takes is one loose wire and the prop will kick over. Some turboprops spool up faster than you can react, and in some cases such as an ATR coming out of hotel mode the prop will go from parked to faster than your eyes can keep up with in about right now. You will be doing yourself nothing but favours to make it a habit to always always always go well around the prop area regardless of what you or the airplane is doing.

- Always be scared of jet engines. There are several images floating around the internet showing what you'll look like after getting sucked in, and after decades worth of warnings it's still a thing that happens. It's rare, but it does happen.

- Live by the beacon. Everywhere I've ever gone in the aviation world the beacon is the standard way of letting everyone know engine or engines are running or will soon be starting. Never, ever, under any circumstances, ever go near an airplane while the beacon is on, and if you notice it come on while you are near the airplane, stop what you're doing and get the f out.

- Never, ever put your head, hands, or anything else in the path of any flaps or flight controls while the hydraulics are pressurized, for any reason, ever.

- When you are wing walking, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE be in a spot where you can clearly see whether or not the wing is going to hit anything AND AND AND the tug driver can see you. I've lost count of how many times I've seen rampies wing walking along with the wing behind their head or watching the wing closely as they disappear around the corner from the tug driver's view. If you cannot clearly see both the tug driver and the wing tip, then you're probably not accomplishing anything at all. Also as a side note when wing walking also please keep an eye on the engines, tail, etc. Quite often there are places (mostly in hangars, but other places as well so it's good to just make it a habit) where the wings will fit but the engine cowls, tail, or horizontal stab will hit something.

- Assume every vehicle on the apron is trying to kill you. The ramp can be a busy place with lots of different vehicles all going in different directions and there's a good chance they're all in a hurry to get there. I'm honestly thoroughly amazed that we don't hear of ramp kids getting driven over by catering trucks and such more often, but I've seen a few close calls.

- I know multiple people that have had arms or legs crushed between two pieces of equipment or a piece of equipment and a wall or pole. When things that are bigger than you start moving, get out of the way. You'll find most bag carts, tugs, belt loaders, and so forth tend to look like they've just come back from a bash and crash competition, so obviously contact where there shouldn't be is a pretty regular occurrence on the ramp and in the bag room. No ifs ands or buts, ever, just get out of the way. There is a pretty good chance the operator doesn't see you, and they almost certainly can't hear you. It sounds like an obvious one, but in 10 years working at an airport this is one of those things I've seen happen to rampies over and over again.

- Be careful walking around any time the temperature is anywhere close to freezing or below, and for a while afterwards. The ramp gets super slippery, I don't think there's a single person who's ever been around the ramp for any length of time during fall/winter/spring that hasn't fallen on their ass at least once, and I can tell you from experience it actually does hurt.

- Also be careful when working at heights, falls do happen and again I can say from experience that hurts too.

- Don't push or lift or pull too hard. It's great to be tough and "get er done", but I still occasionally have trouble from an injury that was the result of pushing on something too hard at work several years ago now, and it's 100% not worth it.

- Be careful with the airplanes, they have many fragile parts and critical areas and causing unnecessary damage to an airplane makes for a bad day all around. But if it does happen, make sure you tell either the pilots or maintenance right away. I'm fairly confident that causing an in flight emergency and/or crash would ruin your week a heck of a lot more than having to tell someone "I f***ed up, sorry" ever would. As an aircraft maintenance engineer I'd be much, much less angry with someone who came to me right away than I would be if they let it go flying without the damage being inspected first.

- Most important of all, remember to enjoy it! Aviation is an awesome place to be, and even with all of its dangers it can still be a ton of fun to work on the ramp. My main job is aircraft maintenance but I do help out the rampies from time to time and generally it's a great experience.
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geologyrocks
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:29 am

As someone already said, there are some unusual situations but I'll agree that most of the injuries that I saw as well when I used to work the ramp were avoidable and the employee was doing something they were already not supposed to be doing. I saw a new guy once spot a cone behind an aircraft while he was wing walking. He ran to go get the cone out of the way. I yelled at him and I think it sunk through how dangerous and stupid that was. There was also a pretty horrific accident because someone decided to move the jet bridge and hold the dead man trigger while doing so. If you don't know what that is then there is a trigger that in theory someone standing on the ground should hold down in order for the person up top to move the jet bridge to make sure that no one is standing around it. It has one flaw: the guy moving the jet bridge can't be a complete moron and decide to hold the trigger therefore defeating it's purpose.

Bottom line, working the ramp will give you a great workout. Any obese ramper you see isn't actually doing anything worthwhile. It's also not a career although some make it one. If you're on the ramp then you're probably being paid poorly. There isn't a single flight that is worth risking serious injury or death because you wanted to try to help get it out on time for $9 an hour and flight benefits, assuming you even get them, that will make you #50 on the list with 4 open seats. Again, it's generally not something people make a career out of so if you do it then don't do something stupid that will later ruin whatever it is you eventually want to do.

Oh, one other thing...sometimes they don't let you know that a CRJ door's lift assistance is out of service. Never trust anything. When you start to open one of those SOB's then do it slowly so you don't end up with a concussion if not worse.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:14 am

People forgot the risks of falling asleep in a cargo hold and going on an unexpected ride. Also the possibility of being hit by lightning. Other than that most of the possibilities are covered.
 
geologyrocks
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:24 am

IPFreely wrote:
People forgot the risks of falling asleep in a cargo hold and going on an unexpected ride. Also the possibility of being hit by lightning. Other than that most of the possibilities are covered.


And that’s another example of stupidity. Nobody, especially the ALA, would say, “Gee? Where’s Bob?”
 
geologyrocks
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:25 am

geologyrocks wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
People forgot the risks of falling asleep in a cargo hold and going on an unexpected ride. Also the possibility of being hit by lightning. Other than that most of the possibilities are covered.


And that’s another example of stupidity. Nobody, especially the ALA, would say, “Gee? Where’s Bob? An, screw it. So we’re missing someone. Button up and let’s push!”
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:32 am

And that’s without getting airborne! I know 11 good friends who tragically showed us how not to fly airplanes.


Gf
 
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zeke
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:47 am

Falling out of an open door or off loading equipment
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N415XJ
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:29 am

CanadianNorth wrote:
Balerit wrote:
How much time do you have.... ?


Pretty much sums it up.

A few points I can think of:

- Never, ever, get in the way of a propeller, regardless of engines on or off. Piston airplanes all it takes is one loose wire and the prop will kick over. Some turboprops spool up faster than you can react, and in some cases such as an ATR coming out of hotel mode the prop will go from parked to faster than your eyes can keep up with in about right now. You will be doing yourself nothing but favours to make it a habit to always always always go well around the prop area regardless of what you or the airplane is doing.

Here's a video showing an ATR going out of hotel mode. It's really startling how quickly the propeller goes from stationary to fully running https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUoRHd7GYbU
 
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Balerit
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:04 am

Just to show you how a simple thing can harm you, I was was a second year apprentice and we were doing a cabin conversion on a B707. While carrying the seats into the cabin from the hyster, I hurt my back putting a seat down. Went for x-rays, physio the whole toot. Eventually I healed.

Some fifteen years later I was working in heavy maintenance. A 747 arrived for a D check as we were knocking off but they needed entry stairs (some of you may know the two story high yellow metal stairs used on aircraft) pushed up to the aircraft so that the catering people could remove some trollies that they had forgotten to remove down on the ramp. When I got home I felt like I was getting flue, so the next day I booked off and went to the doc. To make a very long story into a long one, over the next 6 months I suffered from internal kidney pains.. After every imaginable test they could find nothing wrong. Then one day I started getting a burning sensation in my right calf muscle. As luck would have it my doctor was on leave and I went to his alternate locum and she listened to my story and said the problem was my back. I went for a cat scan and lo and behold a disc had collapsed pinching the nerves to my lower body causing all these weird symptoms. After several botched operations I lost my job and tracing things back I realized it was pushing that bloody big yellow stand that had caused all my troubles.

The problem though was that I had never submitted worker compensation forms when I first felt sick, so I could not claim anything. Today I suffer tremendous back and leg pain and my right leg is lame, so treat any little injury seriously because it could bite you in the arse further down the line and whether the time I injured my back as an appy played a part, who can say?
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:36 pm

When I worked the ramp, I was always really careful not to get behind the main gear while trying to pull a stuck wheel chock lose when theyre getting ready to push-back from the gate. Especially when the ramp is covered with Glycol on top of ice and snow. It'd be easy to slip and get crushed if somebody in the tug wasn't paying attention.

Sometimes we had to use the huffer cart to start an engine when an APU was down on a MD-80. Being directly under the engine, it was a bit close for comfort. Especially when he old huffer started shaking, rattling, roaring and shooting out flames like the turbine was about to blowup.

I've also heard of people getting digits crushed by the underwing panels that open and close during refueling. I've never worked on any large heavy jets, so I don't know just how much damage one of these could do if they closed on your head or something?
 
CanadianNorth
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:36 am

pwm2txlhopper wrote:
When I worked the ramp, I was always really careful not to get behind the main gear while trying to pull a stuck wheel chock lose when theyre getting ready to push-back from the gate. Especially when the ramp is covered with Glycol on top of ice and snow. It'd be easy to slip and get crushed if somebody in the tug wasn't paying attention.


Never seen it happen, but I could see it happening some day. Also brings up another tip to look like a pro: when putting chocks in always always always leave a little bit of meat sticking out the side. Sometimes chocks do end up getting wedged tight under the tire so if you leave a bit of the chock sticking out the side it A) makes it easier to see that there's a chock there, and B) gives you a convenient place to kick and/or hit it with the other chock to free it. If it's tight and there's a tug hooked up sometimes it's better to get the tug driver to move the airplane slightly away from the chock to get it out, it only takes 10 seconds and it'l save you hurting yourself. If the chock isn't big enough to stick out a couple inches and still get a good bite on the tire then it's probably too small for that airplane anyway.
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FGITD
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:48 am

An engine is a lot like a gun. Always assume it's loaded/running unless thoroughly proven otherwise.

It is a dangerous place, which is why the best advice is to keep your head on a swivel, and watch what the experienced guys do.

I've been fortunate a few times, where a matter of inches Made all the difference. You remember those, and learn from it. Where to stand, where to look etc.

It's dangerous, but it can be as safe as possible if you just pay attention to your surroundings.

Also I've said it in other threads, but be wary of chocks. Everyone is so focused on the big stuff they usually don't even see them, be they on foot or driving
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:09 am

Everything is as safe as you make it. That is true for every person in a hazardous place like an airport ramp, so there are people that flow the rules to the T but still have bad things happen to them caused by a careless person or just bad luck.

Wear your protective gear, keep your eyes peeled, watch the other guy's back, don't put your hands where they aren't supposed to go, and don't approach a plane with the red beacon on.
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77west
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:10 am

CanadianNorth wrote:
pwm2txlhopper wrote:
When I worked the ramp, I was always really careful not to get behind the main gear while trying to pull a stuck wheel chock lose when theyre getting ready to push-back from the gate. Especially when the ramp is covered with Glycol on top of ice and snow. It'd be easy to slip and get crushed if somebody in the tug wasn't paying attention.


Never seen it happen, but I could see it happening some day. Also brings up another tip to look like a pro: when putting chocks in always always always leave a little bit of meat sticking out the side. Sometimes chocks do end up getting wedged tight under the tire so if you leave a bit of the chock sticking out the side it A) makes it easier to see that there's a chock there, and B) gives you a convenient place to kick and/or hit it with the other chock to free it. If it's tight and there's a tug hooked up sometimes it's better to get the tug driver to move the airplane slightly away from the chock to get it out, it only takes 10 seconds and it'l save you hurting yourself. If the chock isn't big enough to stick out a couple inches and still get a good bite on the tire then it's probably too small for that airplane anyway.


There was a guy at JNB years back who got run over by the main gear of a BA 744 (from memory) and lost both legs...
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Cunard
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:07 am

You do realise that your usually get a full amount of training and assessment before you actually hit the ramp and if your not up to the grade as in any other job your probably get called to one side but seriously if you have any thoughts about dying on the ramp I suggest it's not for you :-)
 
LH658
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:00 am

From the jet blast behind the engine you can get FOD thrown at you, or the air can just blast at you. Standing to close infront of the engine you can get sucked into it. Not wearing proper ear protection, you can damage your hearing. You can also damage yourself in the bin, by being on your knee's without the knee pads. Also if you don't stretch you can pull muscles, you can also hurt your self by throwing bags in the bin.

Working the ramp can, be fine you might just work 1 to 3 flights in 6 hour shift, or sometime working back to back. Though it definitely can toll on your body.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:45 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Tommyroberts wrote:
Sorry for quite a harsh title. I would like to work on ramp some day but I'm a bit worried about the dangers of it. People run over by aircraft, sucked into jet engine and so on. Is the ramp a safe place? How can you get hurt, or worse, killed by an aircraft? What do I need to know and be aware of?

Garages are dangerous places, machine shops are dangerous places, warehouses are dangerous places. I worked in the water industry; you wouldn't believe the issues involved with that, and I'm not just talking about drowning. Go and visit your local sawmill, and ask everyone there to give you a high-five. I guarantee at least one of the crew will fail that task on account of some missing fingers.

So, it's just a matter of managing the risks, and staying alert. I've never worked on an airport ramp, but I have spent plenty of time walking around between aircraft. I once tripped over a retaining wire in pitch blackness, and cracked my skull on the underside of an F-14 Tomcat. It's no more dangerous than plenty of other careers, but because it happens in a public environment, with large & expensive pieces of metal, it gets noticed.

Enjoy a career in aviation; you'll be fine.


I suspect this is pretty much what it boils down to. I don't have any ramp experience aside from a brief foray into airframe/powerplant school, but it's a pretty safe assumption that the ramp is a workplace where you need to adhere to established procedure and keep your wits about you. Heck, I spent years in working in kitchens, which might not strike everyone as a particularly high risk environment, but I've seen plenty of people let their guard down and end up in the hospital with severe grease burns, severed finger tips and nasty lacerations. As mundane as a given job might seem, you need to be paying attention to your surroundings and pay close attention to whatever safety directives are handed down to you. This is simple professional behavior--don't let it discourage you from pursuing something you're interested in. Play by the rules, and odds are, you will be fine.
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jetmatt777
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:27 am

Just use common sense. From a USA perspective...

If the engine is running, don't go near it. If the beacon light is on, be cautious. You won't get sucked in if you are pulling the chocks and the pilot turns the beacon light on. He's just ready to go and that's the next item on his checklist. So don't panic when that happens. Because it will, often. Look up, evaluate what is going on and go from there. If you see the light come on, and start hearing the engine spool up, run behind the engine don't run in front of it. It's better to get blown away than sucked in. If you see the light come on, but the jetbridge is still attached and the catering truck is finishing up in the back, just keep doing what you are doing.

The person standing next to you in the breakroom is more likely to kill you than you are. He'll be texting while driving a bag tug and he'll run you over. So, keep your head on a swivel. Aircraft are slow and clumsy on the ground, you aren't likely to be hit by one. Bag tugs are small and silent and maneuver very well for what they are, they are your enemy on the ramp. Someone will hit you or come close to it if you aren't paying attention -- because they aren't.

Don't panic. When you get in a hurry you do dumb things like trip over an expansion joint in the concrete or get off a tractor while leaving it in gear.

Sometimes people will say mean things to you and not mean it. Sometimes people will say mean things to you and they mean it. Have some thick skin, or plan on growing some. Have a sense of humor. Sometimes this sense of humor will come in handy when someone you don't like trips over their shoelaces. Sometimes it will come in handy when you have to laugh at yourself when you are the person who trips over his shoelaces and the other 4 people in your crew saw you eat concrete.

Get used to caffeine. Sometimes you will be on a shift where you wake up at 3am. Other days you'll be eating dinner at 3am before going to bed. Sometimes these days are in the same week. Buy blackout curtains. When you get in bed at 3am, the sun always tends to rise in a way that it shines directly into your eyes...even with the blinds closed. Amazing physics.

Eliminate your stereotypes. If you think all pilots are all smart people, you will be in for a world of disappointment. If you think you are the smartest person on the ramp, you will be very quickly reminded that people have done this much longer than you. A know-it-all doesn't have a place on the ramp; they are usually in the cockpit.

Don't go out and ask the mechanic, "How much longer?". If you do, the general rule of thumb is 2.3 times the quote, thus when he says 15 minutes, expect about 35 mins. Just don't ask. Sit inside where it's warm, or cool, depending on the weather. Don't offer to help them. They don't want it, and they aren't generally amused at your curiosity. Some of the work you see done on the line is very interesting, if you want to watch go stand somewhere where the mechanics can't feel your presence. Nothing more irritating than the feeling of eyes hovering over you.

Just be humble. Even if you are an avid aviation enthusiast who knows a lot about airplanes, you know jack-squat about working the ramp. So don't pretend to know, just listen and learn. In your classroom, you will be tempted to spout off everything you know about airplanes -- you'll come across as a know it all. The instructor won't like you, and your classmates (eventual coworkers) will not like you from the beginning. Sometimes it's okay to play dumb. In this case, you may not be playing.

One more thing....

Be familiar with the terms "Prop-wash", "bin stretchers", and "flight-line". When someone asks you to retrieve one of these items from the storage room, just do what you are told and retrieve them. It's a 1 man job and you typically don't need help as they aren't very bulky and don't weigh a ton. The fact that they are in clearly marked containers makes it easier to spot when you go in. They are high-use items, so it is likely if they aren't in your storage you may have to ask a partner airline to borrow some of theirs. It is very common for these to be shared and there is generally a log book hanging on a clip, if you do borrow from another airline just fill out the form with your company, employee name and number, date/time, and the quantity with which you borrowed. At the end of the month, they will reconcile this and your supervisor will send back the borrowed product when you get your next shipment in.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:26 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
Get used to caffeine. Sometimes you will be on a shift where you wake up at 3am. Other days you'll be eating dinner at 3am before going to bed. Sometimes these days are in the same week. Buy blackout curtains. When you get in bed at 3am, the sun always tends to rise in a way that it shines directly into your eyes...even with the blinds closed. Amazing physics.


Yes! Physics really is amazing. Whether it is in a hotel or at home the sun seems to find a way. Get a comfortable eye mask... And ear plugs.

jetmatt777 wrote:
Eliminate your stereotypes. If you think all pilots are all smart people, you will be in for a world of disappointment. If you think you are the smartest person on the ramp, you will be very quickly reminded that people have done this much longer than you. A know-it-all doesn't have a place on the ramp; they are usually in the cockpit.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

As a pilot, I won't disagree...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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Balerit
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:30 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
Just use common sense. From a USA perspective...

Have some thick skin, or plan on growing some. Have a sense of humor. Sometimes this sense of humor will come in handy when someone you don't like trips over their shoelaces. Sometimes it will come in handy when you have to laugh at yourself when you are the person who trips over his shoelaces and the other 4 people in your crew saw you eat concrete.


Don't go out and ask the mechanic, "How much longer?". If you do, the general rule of thumb is 2.3 times the quote, thus when he says 15 minutes, expect about 35 mins. Just don't ask. Sit inside where it's warm, or cool, depending on the weather. Don't offer to help them. They don't want it, and they aren't generally amused at your curiosity. Some of the work you see done on the line is very interesting, if you want to watch go stand somewhere where the mechanics can't feel your presence. Nothing more irritating than the feeling of eyes hovering over you.

Just be humble.


Excellent advice but the quote above is priceless :)
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
meecrob
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:10 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
One more thing....

Be familiar with the terms "Prop-wash", "bin stretchers", and "flight-line". When someone asks you to retrieve one of these items from the storage room, just do what you are told and retrieve them. It's a 1 man job and you typically don't need help as they aren't very bulky and don't weigh a ton. The fact that they are in clearly marked containers makes it easier to spot when you go in. They are high-use items, so it is likely if they aren't in your storage you may have to ask a partner airline to borrow some of theirs. It is very common for these to be shared and there is generally a log book hanging on a clip, if you do borrow from another airline just fill out the form with your company, employee name and number, date/time, and the quantity with which you borrowed. At the end of the month, they will reconcile this and your supervisor will send back the borrowed product when you get your next shipment in.


This must be a Canada vs USA thing, but they call them "metal-stretchers" here, not "bin-stretchers". Don't assume everyone is from the USA on a.net or someone might take your advice and end up looking a bit daft ;)
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:36 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
One more thing....


::narrows eyes::
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:39 pm

meecrob wrote:
This must be a Canada vs USA thing, but they call them "metal-stretchers" here, not "bin-stretchers". Don't assume everyone is from the USA on a.net or someone might take your advice and end up looking a bit daft ;)


Don't worry, every language has their own difficult-to-fetch items. Germans have the Siemens Lufthaken in engineering, the Hilbertraum at mathematical departments, and the Farbraum in printing shops...


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
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Balerit
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:24 pm

Engineer killed while towing aircraft to hangar for maintenance - happened in the last week: :(

Image
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
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Blimpie
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:43 pm

Balerit wrote:
Engineer killed while towing aircraft to hangar for maintenance - happened in the last week: :(

Image


https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/ ... a-airport/

Yeah, meant to post this Friday, but hadn't had time to log on to the system.
Now get the hell off of my lawn your dang kids!
 
MatthewDB
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:53 pm

What a freak accident. Are ground people trained about the risk of accidental landing gear failure / accidental retraction? I would think it is so rare that it isn't considered a risk other than when the gear are being worked on.
 
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Balerit
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:04 am

Most accidents are avoidable but it is that one time that you forget something or aren't paying attention that something happens. As a ground engineer you treat everything as if it is going to kill you. That way you build up a safety instinct that becomes second nature. I remember one day fitting the locks to the spoilers on a B747 for maintenance. As I fitted the two halves of the lock around the actuator, they guy in the cockpit inadvertently stowed the handle before we were finished. I just pulled my hands away just in time else I could have had both chopped off. Needless to say the spoiler got damaged. Never rush things, take your time and be precise.
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jetmatt777
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:40 pm

Balerit wrote:
Most accidents are avoidable but it is that one time that you forget something or aren't paying attention that something happens. As a ground engineer you treat everything as if it is going to kill you. That way you build up a safety instinct that becomes second nature. I remember one day fitting the locks to the spoilers on a B747 for maintenance. As I fitted the two halves of the lock around the actuator, they guy in the cockpit inadvertently stowed the handle before we were finished. I just pulled my hands away just in time else I could have had both chopped off. Needless to say the spoiler got damaged. Never rush things, take your time and be precise.


Was there not a placard on the handle to the effect of "maintenance in progress do not touch"?
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
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Balerit
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:01 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
Balerit wrote:
Most accidents are avoidable but it is that one time that you forget something or aren't paying attention that something happens. As a ground engineer you treat everything as if it is going to kill you. That way you build up a safety instinct that becomes second nature. I remember one day fitting the locks to the spoilers on a B747 for maintenance. As I fitted the two halves of the lock around the actuator, they guy in the cockpit inadvertently stowed the handle before we were finished. I just pulled my hands away just in time else I could have had both chopped off. Needless to say the spoiler got damaged. Never rush things, take your time and be precise.


Was there not a placard on the handle to the effect of "maintenance in progress do not touch"?


We were preparing the aircraft for some heavy maintenance and if I recall, you pull the spoiler lever fully aft and hold it by hand or then pull the circuit breaker to keep it from auto retracting and he forgot to pull the breaker and let the lever go, resulting in the spoilers retracting. For some reason my spoiler actuator didn't extend fully and the lock wouldn't fit around the actuator shaft, so I was slow in getting it in. Had it gone in first time nothing would have happened but as everyone knows in the aircraft game, it's several little things that happen sometimes ending in disaster. :(
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Gr8Circle
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:01 pm

Some time back there was a video circulating on social media, of a ramper (is wing walker the right term?) who was guiding a plane that was either inbound or outbound (can't make out from the video clip) walking along the wingtip.......the dude was doing all sorts of theatrical moves and almost dancing in the process......was this permissible at all and was it not dangerous to himself and the plane? Don't know if others have seen that clip.....
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:32 pm

Gr8Circle wrote:
Some time back there was a video circulating on social media, of a ramper (is wing walker the right term?) who was guiding a plane that was either inbound or outbound (can't make out from the video clip) walking along the wingtip.......the dude was doing all sorts of theatrical moves and almost dancing in the process......was this permissible at all and was it not dangerous to himself and the plane? Don't know if others have seen that clip.....


Definitely against the rules, but from my honest opinion.. unless you're in really tight maneuvering area or a busy area, no one (pilots, marshaller, or push driver) is watching the wing walkers except maybe an occasional glance.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
meecrob
Posts: 61
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:00 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
Gr8Circle wrote:
Some time back there was a video circulating on social media, of a ramper (is wing walker the right term?) who was guiding a plane that was either inbound or outbound (can't make out from the video clip) walking along the wingtip.......the dude was doing all sorts of theatrical moves and almost dancing in the process......was this permissible at all and was it not dangerous to himself and the plane? Don't know if others have seen that clip.....


Definitely against the rules, but from my honest opinion.. unless you're in really tight maneuvering area or a busy area, no one (pilots, marshaller, or push driver) is watching the wing walkers except maybe an occasional glance.


Confirmed from where I have worked. Its one of those things that you have to prioritize. Let's say you are backing your van into a parking spot with absolutely no cars around. Do you place your attention on making sure a car comes out of nowhere even though you are 300 metres from the nearest vehicle, or on parking the van? Of course the flipside is if there is traffic around, you switch your priorities and make sure you don't hit anything and if you are an inch or two off your park job, you don't care - you made damn sure you didn't hit anything. Against the rules? Yes. Same as you are supposed to come to a full and complete stop at a stop sign even though its 3 am with zero traffic. Its all relative. You judge someone when its important, not when you are just trying to bust their balls over a technicality.

I think that brings it back to the topic - You get hurt when you have the wrong priorities (not just from my above example, but in general). My priority is going home alive without any bent metal, not making sure the schedule is adhered to right down to the second. If the schedule is maintained, then its a bonus. I'm not going to sacrifice my life so some CEO or shareholders can make a few more dollars.
 
Calder
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:19 pm

On a more humorous note, I was helping the local A&P move a nice little C172M into his hangar yesterday. One foot on his concrete floor, one foot outside his (open) hangar door on a patch of ice..

I had the towbar in hand and leaned back to shift it forward before pushing it back into its final spot for the night. My foot immediately slipped off the ice and I fell with my legs straddling the nosewheel. The mechanic was on the wing strut pushing towards me and rammed the nice pointy wheel pant right into my crotch where it was stopped by the friction of my backside sliding on the patchy ice/asphalt.

Kind of a pain, but no lasting damage and several roars of laughter.

On a more serious note, stay away from running props (and tailrotors). The only time I get inside a prop arc is when I KNOW there is nobody at the controls, and even then, I know people who say I'm too cavalier.
C. T.
 
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Balerit
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Re: Different ways you can get hurt by aircraft

Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:33 am

Calder wrote:
On a more humorous note, I was helping the local A&P move a nice little C172M into his hangar yesterday. One foot on his concrete floor, one foot outside his (open) hangar door on a patch of ice..

I had the towbar in hand and leaned back to shift it forward before pushing it back into its final spot for the night. My foot immediately slipped off the ice and I fell with my legs straddling the nosewheel. The mechanic was on the wing strut pushing towards me and rammed the nice pointy wheel pant right into my crotch where it was stopped by the friction of my backside sliding on the patchy ice/asphalt.

Kind of a pain, but no lasting damage and several roars of laughter.

On a more serious note, stay away from running props (and tailrotors). The only time I get inside a prop arc is when I KNOW there is nobody at the controls, and even then, I know people who say I'm too cavalier.


:eyepopping: :lol: . I remember an AP telling me once that he was doing a cylinder leak test on a Lycoming engine and when he opened the valve to pressurize the cylinder, the prop swung clipping him on the head. He said he felt more embarrassed than anything else.
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).

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