71Zulu
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:42 am

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:13 pm

Obviously the transition to Airbus would be easier than the other way around. :D
Image

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
 
Apprentice
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:51 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:28 pm

in an emergency, a Cessna172 will fly any plane. Proper question is if He is able to LAND it.
Rgds
“An AME, with just a Mechanic Role”, as per one of our pilots
"A NO" is a positive answer., "DON'T KNOW" is not. My Tutor (a wise man)
“CUBANA” 90 years Flying”
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 12695
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:53 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Zeke you need to sit back and take a really deep breath and stop calling other aviation professionals liars.


The 737, 747, 767, and 777 do not fly the same as stated, that is why they are separate ratings.

Even the differences between early and late aircraft of the same type fly very differently (except the FBW aircraft). No reasonable person would say a 737-200 flies the same as a 737MAX, different engines, different wings, different cockpits.

It would be nice if people would get off their high horse and instead of attacking me every chance you get and read the actual words I responded to. It was not a truthful statement.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 12695
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:56 pm

Starlionblue wrote:

Spoke to one of our chief pilots about this a while ago. AFAIK he has only ever flown Boeing airliners. He got to try an Airbus sim and it was apparently no biggie to land it. Probably not according to exact SOP but everyone would have been fine.


One of the senior management guys above chief pilot level did as you said a few years back, he was on the 747, Airbus let him take an A380 up for a fly with no previous Airbus experience.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
mmo
Posts: 1607
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:31 pm

I have flown both Boeing and Airbus. When I first checked out on the 320 it was from the 727. In the sim, it took all of about 2 minutes to get the "feel" of the sidestick. It is no big deal at all. A couple of years later I went on to the 757 and again, it was no big deal at all. The hardest thing for me to remember was if the heading sel was a push or pull!!! Landing was not a big deal at all.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2871
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:08 pm

zeke wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Zeke you need to sit back and take a really deep breath and stop calling other aviation professionals liars.


The 737, 747, 767, and 777 do not fly the same as stated, that is why they are separate ratings.

Even the differences between early and late aircraft of the same type fly very differently (except the FBW aircraft). No reasonable person would say a 737-200 flies the same as a 737MAX, different engines, different wings, different cockpits.

It would be nice if people would get off their high horse and instead of attacking me every chance you get and read the actual words I responded to. It was not a truthful statement.


Well Zeke I have nothing but respect for 99% of your posts but when talk out your arse I will call you on iy. Fly a FBW Boeing and Non FBW Boeing is a non event. Now I suspect the only Boeing you have flwon is the 747?
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 12695
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:19 am

BravoOne wrote:
Well Zeke I have nothing but respect for 99% of your posts but when I will call you on iy. Fly a FBW Boeing and Non FBW Boeing is a non event. Now I suspect the only Boeing you have flwon is the 747?


Yes the jumbo is the only Boeing I have flown, but early and late jumbos did not fly the same, nor did they look the same inside.

Early and late 767s don’t fly the same, and early and late 767s look different inside. My understanding is the 764 pilots were a different group.

Exactly the same with the 737 series.

It is an indefensible argument to say all Boeing’s fly the same. Even the FAA flight testing on the 787 said it was too different to the 777. The 787 and 777 remain different FAA type ratings.

I supposed you are say the FAA also “talk out your arse”

How many Airbus types you flown ? nil ?

For years we have been trying to get approval forpilots to fly the 777 and 747 at the same time, keeps getting rejected because the regulator says they are too different to fly.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
User avatar
Classa64
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:58 pm

zeke wrote:

Yes the jumbo is the only Boeing I have flown, but early and late jumbos did not fly the same, nor did they look the same inside.

Early and late 767s don’t fly the same, and early and late 767s look different inside. My understanding is the 764 pilots were a different group.

Exactly the same with the 737 series.

It is an indefensible argument to say all Boeing’s fly the same. Even the FAA flight testing on the 787 said it was too different to the 777. The 787 and 777 remain different FAA type ratings.

I supposed you are say the FAA also “talk out your arse”

How many Airbus types you flown ? nil ?

For years we have been trying to get approval forpilots to fly the 777 and 747 at the same time, keeps getting rejected because the regulator says they are too different to fly.


For an experienced Pilot flying only Boeing like yourself is there that much of a difference in the flying? Old 767 to Newer for Example... I mean is there such a difference that you could do something wrong or is it just the reactions that plane has to your inputs.
From what I am reading so for the only noticeable difference is the Feel of the aircraft and once that's figured out flying is flying. Do you think personally you could fly both the 747 and then an A380 reasonably well. I would think the landing is the critical area of it all :)
"Freedom is the miles i'm rolling on"
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 12695
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:40 pm

Classa64 wrote:
Do you think personally you could fly both the 747 and then an A380 reasonably well. I would think the landing is the critical area of it all :)


I am very confident I could have a safe outcome landing any fixed wing or rotary aircraft in an emergency as the OP asked.

That is very different to the claim that the 737, 747, 767, 777 are the same to fly which is obviously not true.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2871
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:50 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
It can take some time to figure out how to use the flight management computer to configure an approach. For a pilot not used to the airplane, that might not be easy. The autopilot in cruise is simple, but an approach is not. Speeds, weights, flap settings, etc are something a pilot walking into an unfamiliar plane will not know. I would be worried about not understanding how the autothrottle system worked since they are different.

I've spent plenty of time in 737s, 747s, and 787s and those displays, autopilots, and FMCs are pretty similar, but I went into a 767-200 flight deck a few years ago and man what a time warp. I am completely lost in an MD80. I think a 737 or A320 pilot would have a lot of trouble landing one of those. That's old school flying.

An A320 pilot may be very confused about the master caution system on a 737.



As far as the older 767/757 you refere to, most operators, especially if flying oceanic routes would have upgraded there OEM, FMC to the newer Pegasus version. Ditto for the MD11s that may still be flying, like FedEx and UPS as the MD11's were originally delivered with an Airbus version of the Honeywell FMC/
The difference is one used a "What, Where vs the Where, What" presentation on the MCDU.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2871
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:59 pm

zeke wrote:
Classa64 wrote:
Do you think personally you could fly both the 747 and then an A380 reasonably well. I would think the landing is the critical area of it all :)


I am very confident I could have a safe outcome landing any fixed wing or rotary aircraft in an emergency as the OP asked.

That is very different to the claim that the 737, 747, 767, 777 are the same to fly which is obviously not true.



RW as well? I am really impressed with your degree of confidence as I would probably wrap it up into a ball of flames and while I do not have any RW ratings I have ridden abound in numerous types of corporate RW aircraft. I did take lessons once and it sounded like this. instructor: "You got it" 20 seconds later: "I GOT IT". :oops:
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2871
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:11 pm

zeke wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Zeke you need to sit back and take a really deep breath and stop calling other aviation professionals liars.


The 737, 747, 767, and 777 do not fly the same as stated, that is why they are separate ratings.

Even the differences between early and late aircraft of the same type fly very differently (except the FBW aircraft). No reasonable person would say a 737-200 flies the same as a 737MAX, different engines, different wings, different cockpits.

It would be nice if people would get off their high horse and instead of attacking me every chance you get and read the actual words I responded to. It was not a truthful statement.



It's been awhile but do recall a briefing from one of the Boeing Test and Eval pilots where he stated that the feel or back pressure required to rotate was engineer to be the same for all Boeings, Seems like it was 40lbs but don;t quoye me. As for the 777 and 787 it;s simply a matter of programming the computers to replicate the same feel, (I'm sure there is more to it than that. Having flown the 777 and the 787 sims I can assure you they fly the same for all intent and purposes
Stop calling people who know more than you know, and have 1st hand experience and you will get a better reception. Just curious as to your prior experience? Do you have an engineering degree, flight test and certification background? If not you listen to those on this forum and not dis them.
 
Flow2706
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:20 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:39 pm

Many airlines use a 737 simulator to screen new applicants, even if they come from an other type (f.e. Lufthansa Group uses or used to use a 737 Sim to screen A320 rated pilots for an A320 Job at GWI/EWG...not sure why), so I had to opportunity to fly a 737 Simulator (mostly classic, but once NG as well) a few times. As an A320 guy it required me quite a bit of concentration as the 737 has all kinds of "strange" (to an Airbus pilot) behaviors that are suppressed by the FBW on the A320 (pitch-power couple, need to trim etc.). However you get used to it - on one of these screening the program included engine failures even for non rated pilots. Engines failures are definitely more difficult to handle compared to the bus (but absolutely doable). Also I found a normal (two engine) go around on a 737 is rather challenging. However, I am confident that I could land a 737 if I needed to - while its more "work" than hand flying the Airbus the basic principles are still the same.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 1304
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:18 pm

In the Reserves, I had plenty of B727, B737, B747, B767, one MD-11 and a couple of DC-9 pilots fly the C-5 without difficulty. They’d probably only get 2 take-offs and landings in the big Lockheed a month, sometimes go for several months without flying it and return without a problem. Yes, some missteps on checklist response, but safe and without dramas. Heck, I talked my elderly secretary thru a landing in the sim. As a friend of my family used to say, “if you can drive, you can drive on the moon.” True of flying, too. Also, he said it long before anyone actually drove on the moon.

I interviewed and flew the DC-9 sim w/o an issue. The CP who ran the profile said, most pilots do just fine, once and while, they crash. Don’t get hired, either.

GF
 
User avatar
enzo011
Posts: 1551
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:12 am

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:02 pm

BravoOne wrote:
It's been awhile but do recall a briefing from one of the Boeing Test and Eval pilots where he stated that the feel or back pressure required to rotate was engineer to be the same for all Boeings, Seems like it was 40lbs but don;t quoye me. As for the 777 and 787 it;s simply a matter of programming the computers to replicate the same feel, (I'm sure there is more to it than that. Having flown the 777 and the 787 sims I can assure you they fly the same for all intent and purposes
Stop calling people who know more than you know, and have 1st hand experience and you will get a better reception. Just curious as to your prior experience? Do you have an engineering degree, flight test and certification background? If not you listen to those on this forum and not dis them.



I think Zeke said exactly what 7BOEING7 has said, a pilot would be able to fly different aircraft without much of a problem. But the difference of opinion seems to about what is "feel" for an aircraft. Zeke seems to be saying the differences between models or even older or newer version of the same aircraft would mean its not as easy as just climbing into one Toyota model to another and driving off (clutch, gas and brake pedals are where it should be, as is the gear lever and handbrake). Its more like going from a Toyota to a Nissan and figuring out what side the indicator switch is on while driving, you may wipe the windshield a few times before you get the hang of it. There are physical differences and with the automation that would require a pilot to take stock of what model he is flying and ensuring he knows where everything is situated before taking off.

The consenting opinion is that the feel of flying the aircraft will be the same with a Boeing aircraft, even if the cockpit has a different layout. Once you know which buttons and levers are where and what to pull or push when, its the same as all others. I would assume a Boeing test pilot will be comfortable with all the aircraft out there to fly, seeing as he does it day after day. But a 777 pilot may not find it as easy as that if he has to climb into another Boeing model on short notice. The same goes for an Airbus A330 pilot just being seated in the A350. There are differences between the models that will make it different to fly the aircraft, have a different "feel". Surely that is not controversial?
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:04 am

Apprentice wrote:
in an emergency, a Cessna172 will fly any plane. Proper question is if He is able to LAND it.
Rgds


In an emergency, any pilot will fly any plane. Beside that, it's just a question of the CRM. In the case of technical malfunctions on an Airbus and one Airbus and one Boeing pilot in the cockpit, one could think that the Boeing pilot will fly, leaving checklists, comms, troubleshooting and the actual landing to the Airbus pilot due to his more intimate knowledge of the plane.

Even a flight sim nut could be helpful (e.g. by setting up a Cat III autoland).

A few years ago, almost all of a.nut discussed the question if a passenger was able to land a passenger jet, and somebody stated that an experienced 172 pilot could land a 320, given very favorable conditions (no crosswind, VMC, enough fuel for several practice approaches, no malfunctions...).


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 1304
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:20 pm

Well, until touchdown with the throttles in the detent and wondering, “why am I a retard?”

GF
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 6030
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:02 pm

Not Airbus, but there was the USAF B1 pilot that landed a 737 a few years ago.
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Well, until touchdown with the throttles in the detent and wondering, “why am I a retard?”

GF

Airbus planes are very rude! :biggrin:
You know all is right is the world when the only thing people worry about is if the president had sex with a pornstar.


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:30 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Well, until touchdown with the throttles in the detent and wondering, “why am I a retard?”


Why the Boeing pilot is a retard?

Because the smart Airbus computer says so! :biggrin:


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 1304
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:01 pm

I’ve been told how “retard, retard” sounds, but what happens IF the throttles were left in the CLB detent? Not a ‘Bus driver here, RETARD is only a silent message.

GF
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 18591
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:27 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I’ve been told how “retard, retard” sounds, but what happens IF the throttles were left in the CLB detent? Not a ‘Bus driver here, RETARD is only a silent message.

GF


If you leave the thrust levers in the CLB detent the plane keeps saying RETARD RETARD RETARD RETARD... It does this until the levers are set to IDLE and there's no alternative way to cancel the aural callout. The plane always says RETARD at least once, even if you retard the thrust levers on time, at 20 feet (10 feet in an autoland with autothrust on).

For the actual thrust level:
- If the APs are engaged and you're autolanding, the autopilot will go into FLARE mode, which triggers RETARD mode on the autothrust. The thrust will come back to IDLE by itself and the RETARD call is just there to tell the fleshbag to move the thrust levers to the position that agrees with what the engines are already doing.
- If the APs are not engaged but the autothrust is engaged, and you don't retard the levers, the autothrust will remain in SPEED mode. It will presumably maintain the speed target, in this case Vapp plus or minus a part of the instantaneous gust component. So you'll keep going rather fast down the runway...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
User avatar
Balerit
Posts: 580
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:14 am

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:47 am

This reminds me of the SAA B707-344C ZS-EUW at Windhoek. Plane crashed because pilots were not used to the C model having flown the A models. The exact same scenario on the LH B747 at Nairobi. In both instances the problem was solved by fitting a gate to the flaplever quadrant but why Boeing didn't do this straight off on the B747 is a mystery.
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
fire
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:44 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:56 pm

A video of the reverse situation. I guess he landed , but would this a/c go straight for inspection after that?

https://youtu.be/UyF6LtsJ1OA

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2871
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:08 pm

zeke wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Well Zeke I have nothing but respect for 99% of your posts but when I will call you on iy. Fly a FBW Boeing and Non FBW Boeing is a non event. Now I suspect the only Boeing you have flwon is the 747?


Yes the jumbo is the only Boeing I have flown, but early and late jumbos did not fly the same, nor did they look the same inside.

Early and late 767s don’t fly the same, and early and late 767s look different inside. My understanding is the 764 pilots were a different group.

Exactly the same with the 737 series.

It is an indefensible argument to say all Boeing’s fly the same. Even the FAA flight testing on the 787 said it was too different to the 777. The 787 and 777 remain different FAA type ratings.

I supposed you are say the FAA also “talk out your arse”

How many Airbus types you flown ? nil ?

For years we have been trying to get approval forpilots to fly the 777 and 747 at the same time, keeps getting rejected because the regulator says they are too different to fly.


I have never flown an Airbus, or at least none that I would admit to on public forum, but have flown with many Boeing and Mc Donnell Douglas pilots over the years and have more respect for their opinions, expereince than yours. Sorry if that's not to your liking. The new 767s fly just like the old ones and there is mixed fleet flying at FedEx between old and new. I use to fly a 767 with the IS&S display (Look it up) but took my sim checks in legacy configured sim. One upon a time TWA pilots flew both the 707 and CV880 at he same time. It;s an airplane, get over it.

Thanks for all your contributions BTW:)
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:26 pm

Balerit wrote:
This reminds me of the SAA B707-344C ZS-EUW at Windhoek. Plane crashed because pilots were not used to the C model having flown the A models. The exact same scenario on the LH B747 at Nairobi. In both instances the problem was solved by fitting a gate to the flaplever quadrant but why Boeing didn't do this straight off on the B747 is a mystery.


And much more recently, the Lokomotiv Yaroslavl crash, which killed an entire ice hockey team. The pilot was used to different pedals, and he stepped on the brakes during the take-off roll.

In addition to that, he had medical issues (which he overplayed with forged documents).

David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2871
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:36 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
Balerit wrote:
This reminds me of the SAA B707-344C ZS-EUW at Windhoek. Plane crashed because pilots were not used to the C model having flown the A models. The exact same scenario on the LH B747 at Nairobi. In both instances the problem was solved by fitting a gate to the flaplever quadrant but why Boeing didn't do this straight off on the B747 is a mystery.


And much more recently, the Lokomotiv Yaroslavl crash, which killed an entire ice hockey team. The pilot was used to different pedals, and he stepped on the brakes during the take-off roll.

In addition to that, he had medical issues (which he overplayed with forged documents).

David



Are you sure about your analysis of this accident? First of all there is no such thing as an A model 707 per Boeing specs, and while the wing and flap config did change significantly between 707 models I'm not aware of it being the cause of any accidents. I have never read the officiial accident report on this SAA acident so if have a link to it I would really like to read it.

Thanks
 
User avatar
Balerit
Posts: 580
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:14 am

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:48 pm

BravoOne wrote:
flyingturtle wrote:
Balerit wrote:
This reminds me of the SAA B707-344C ZS-EUW at Windhoek. Plane crashed because pilots were not used to the C model having flown the A models. The exact same scenario on the LH B747 at Nairobi. In both instances the problem was solved by fitting a gate to the flaplever quadrant but why Boeing didn't do this straight off on the B747 is a mystery.


And much more recently, the Lokomotiv Yaroslavl crash, which killed an entire ice hockey team. The pilot was used to different pedals, and he stepped on the brakes during the take-off roll.

In addition to that, he had medical issues (which he overplayed with forged documents).

David



Are you sure about your analysis of this accident? First of all there is no such thing as an A model 707 per Boeing specs, and while the wing and flap config did change significantly between 707 models I'm not aware of it being the cause of any accidents. I have never read the officiial accident report on this SAA acident so if have a link to it I would really like to read it.

Thanks


The accident report doesn't gel with what happened. We did the mods to the pedestal on both 707 and 747. Reading the LH crash report also doesn't gel.

The problem was actually at what setting the leading edges retract and differed between A models and B&C models. The gate was fitted so that you couldn't take the flap lever all they way up, causing the l/e's to retract.

A model:
Image


C model:
Image

I could only find the flap lever gate on a B737:

Image

Trek Airways took one of the A models:

http://www.trekairways.co.za/Trek_Airways_Boeing_707.htm
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2871
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:05 pm

I see where you are coming from and it;s no big deal other than Boeing never built or certified a 707 A model, in spite of your reference materials. Operatiors had a habit of assigning letters to their fleets so as to help differentiate certain features. i.e., B720B redesignated B720H for a slightly heavier model with increased fuel capacity. Boeing was all over the map back in those days so it's hard to pin the information down. Another example would be the 757-200ER which was never built as such.

http://www.airlinercafe.com/page.php?id=72

This remains the best resource I have seen for the various 707 models. I flown ,out of the 707 models that were in service with the exception of the RR -400 series and for some reason can't recall the flap gate on the handle? I do recall it on the 727. Later tomorrow or on the 1st I will have access to a Boeing document that shows the most recent 707 cofig built. I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks again, as I always enjoy the 707 material that pops up once and awhile:)
 
User avatar
enzo011
Posts: 1551
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:12 am

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:28 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Are you sure about your analysis of this accident? First of all there is no such thing as an A model 707 per Boeing specs, and while the wing and flap config did change significantly between 707 models I'm not aware of it being the cause of any accidents. I have never read the officiial accident report on this SAA acident so if have a link to it I would really like to read it.

Thanks


You do realise you just confirmed what Zeke has been saying? There are differences between Boeing models of the same type, never mind between the different models.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 3676
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:52 pm

CosmicCruiser wrote:
not at any airline I know about. At least in my experience you cannot even sit in the seat in cruise with the A/P on unless you are CURRENT in that jet. You sure can't just be called up to fly a jet you're not typed in nor current in. Not being current holds true for any pilot at any airline. I know there's 777 guys where I was that always have problems keeping their currency due to long legs and minimum ldgs. You must go back in the sim and get your 3 & 3.

This is fake news. IN the US the freaking FA sits int he seat while the pilot is making a doodie.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2871
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:30 pm

enzo011 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Are you sure about your analysis of this accident? First of all there is no such thing as an A model 707 per Boeing specs, and while the wing and flap config did change significantly between 707 models I'm not aware of it being the cause of any accidents. I have never read the officiial accident report on this SAA acident so if have a link to it I would really like to read it.

Thanks


You do realise you just confirmed what Zeke has been saying? There are differences between Boeing models of the same type, never mind between the different models.



What ever makes you feel better.

For the record: I'm sure that qualified AB pilot could do a fine job of landing a Boeing and vice versa
I do not think a non pilot, mechanic, low time commercial etc would have good results trying to land either a Boeing or AB
While I think Zeke is wealth of knowledge I take serious offense to calling a former BT&E pilot a liar as I know most of these guys have "done it" and forgotten more than Zeke will ever know about certification and flight testing. Something also tells me that Zeke is well known within the CX community
I doubt that you know squat about any B707 aircraft so I'm sorry for the thread drift.
 
User avatar
enzo011
Posts: 1551
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:12 am

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:41 am

BravoOne wrote:
What ever makes you feel better.

For the record: I'm sure that qualified AB pilot could do a fine job of landing a Boeing and vice versa
I do not think a non pilot, mechanic, low time commercial etc would have good results trying to land either a Boeing or AB
While I think Zeke is wealth of knowledge I take serious offense to calling a former BT&E pilot a liar as I know most of these guys have "done it" and forgotten more than Zeke will ever know about certification and flight testing. Something also tells me that Zeke is well known within the CX community
I doubt that you know squat about any B707 aircraft so I'm sorry for the thread drift.



Its a argument about semantics.

7BOEING7 wrote:
zeke wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
Right, after flying a 777 in the morning I always had to be extremely careful to put on my non fbw captains hat if I was flying a 737, 747 or 767 in the afternoon. Don’t think so - they all fly the same.


So you are going to sit there and lie and say the trim on the fbw and non fbw are exactly the same ?


No, I’m going to say I could fly a n-fbw for a couple of weeks and then hop in an fbw (or vice versa) and not skip a beat manually flying the airplane. I don’t have to think about the differences and I don’t think most other pilots would either.


Whatever, its a petty squabble where both are right and wrong at the same time. No need to get upset, but please stop reacting to the poster and not the post which many have done to Zeke. You can see in the post above 7BOEING7 doesn't challenge the lie he is called out for but shifts the focus on what he can do.

So stop reacting to Zeke and start reacting to his posts. The fact the posters doesn't like him because he calls out his opinion on Boeing products that may not agree with their own shouldn't affect the way people post on this site.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 2871
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:11 pm

Your reading comprehension is really weak, so I'll leave it at that. Zeke and I have exchanged cordial PMs in the past but the "liar" deserved a call out. The fact is Zeke is a wealth of book knowledge, and a line pilot at CX, nothing more. My comments regarding Airbus are mostly just for leg pulling as I have a number of friends who fly and like the Airbus products.

You would not last one minute is a real world airline operation their are hundreds of personalities, many of which are smarter and more knowledgeable than you or I and not afraid to tell you what's on their mind regarding your lack of knowledge.

I chuckle when many years ago a Delta flight instructor stood up at a Boeing Users Conference and told the 777 Chief Boeing Flight Test and Certification pilot that the 777 needed an AOA, to which the Boeing guy said "no it did not need an AOA". It was not pretty, but you know what, the AOA became and option on Boeing airplanes after that.

Chill out. BTW, I always have ask...are you a pilot or?

I looked for the flap handle description on the latest Boeing docs and it had been removed from the library. I do have it somewhere in my files so when I have time, I'll try to find it, Looking at photos of old 707 flap handles and I do not see the gates you have referenced.
 
User avatar
7BOEING7
Posts: 2731
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:50 am

So now I’ve been called a liar by two people in this topic - Zeke who provides valued information most of the time but can’t handle somebody contradicting him and enzo011 - my dogs name is Enzo.

All Boeing’s do “fly” the same, when you pull back they go up, etc. The 747 (apparently the only Boeing Zeke is rated in) “flys” like a semi-truck, the 737 is a lot lighter and the 777 although as big as a 747 is engineered to “fly” very similar to IMHO a 757.

The inner workings and hidden mechanisms that allow them to “fly” may be entirely different (fbw/non-fbw) but you don’t have to think about it. Prior to starting to fly 727’s and 737’s (no simulator training) I was flying P-3’s but had no issues transitioning. They’re airplanes not helicopters.
 
mmo
Posts: 1607
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:21 am

To echo what 7Boeing7 wrote, I have flown the 727,757,747(all models), 777 and 787, also the B-52. I can state there is no difference in any of the aircraft. If you look at the basic systems design, it hasn't changed at all. Granted the 787 has some major technology upgrades, but the design philosophy is the same. But from a pilot's perspective, it's all the same...."push down house gets big, pull back house gets small, pull back further house gets bigger"! Granted the B-52 was very different to land but from a systems perspective, it was just like a 727.

Now, I will say if you compared every aircraft there are certain differences in flying. For example, I remember a certain red tail 727 which was very challenging to land compared with the rest of the fleet. Turns out the wings were slightly warped. But that's what makes flying fun..
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1215
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:02 pm

Was that red-tail one of a kind? Wing warping sounds more wargish than Boeingish.
 
User avatar
PowerliftDrsTX
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:51 pm

Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:58 pm

STLflyer wrote:
Okay, so both pilots of an A320 ate the fish. Lets assume autoland isn't working for one reason or another, the plane has to be flown manually. The only person on board who can fly a plane and didn't have fish for dinner is a 737 pilot who has never been at the controls of an Airbus. How screwed is everybody?



I am going to say that you would be just fine in this scenario. First of all, most 121 flights have several pilots, some in plain clothing, either deadheading or using pass travel. Second, those who commute (like I did) will have spent hours and hours and hourssssssss (ugh) riding the jumpseat of various different types. Obviously they aren't going to know systems and limitations but the ability to use an autopilot, radio, thrust levers, instrument approach, FMS, flaps and gear is easily transferrable.

My little brother the private pilot has asked me, the ATP, this several times and I always say that I like to think we would be able to land safely no problem?

just my opinion.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: TUGMASTER and 12 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos