iflyabunch
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How does EK fly their 77W 16+ hrs from DXB-IAH?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:15 am

This is my first post, so please take it easy on me. My question is how EK can stretch their 77W aircraft on routes that seem to be beyond range other airlines are flying their aircraft. Are they significantly limiting payload and passengers, especially during the hot summer months?
 
Casablanca
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Re: How does EK fly their 77W 16+ hrs from DXB-IAH?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:51 am

A 777-200lr is about the only airplane in world that can take full pax,and fuel and fly.
The 777W and 350 are quite limited , often 20 plus tons on long flights like this.
777-200 has roughly 260 pax( depending on config)and 777W is often close to 400....even if one way it is restricted 100 passengers it is still carrying load of 772, and most often go completely full.
 
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jetfuel
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Re: How does EK fly their 77W 16+ hrs from DXB-IAH?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:12 am

Minimum loads. Reduced passengers and cargo and max fuel
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
tgharabegian
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Re: How does EK fly their 77W 16+ hrs from DXB-IAH?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:30 am

Long haul flight of 16+ hrs for the 77W is common, regardless of the load factor. Take CX, another heavy operator of the 77W family. They run multiple daily flight form HKG - JFK - HKG. Granted most of the inbound to HKG are polar routes and 16+ hrs, however the outbounds from HKG can run westbound, taking advantage of the jet stream when available.

Examples:
Flight CX846 - HKG - JFK on 12/11/2017; 8,817mi, 15hrs:54min
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CPA ... /VHHH/KJFK

Flight CX831 - JFK - HKG on 12/15/2017; 8,530mi, 16hrs: 44min
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CPA ... /KJFK/VHHH

Walk in the park for this bird!
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: How does EK fly their 77W 16+ hrs from DXB-IAH?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:50 am

tgharabegian wrote:
Long haul flight of 16+ hrs for the 77W is common, regardless of the load factor. Take CX, another heavy operator of the 77W family. They run multiple daily flight form HKG - JFK - HKG. Granted most of the inbound to HKG are polar routes and 16+ hrs, however the outbounds from HKG can run westbound, taking advantage of the jet stream when available.

Examples:
Flight CX846 - HKG - JFK on 12/11/2017; 8,817mi, 15hrs:54min
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CPA ... /VHHH/KJFK

Flight CX831 - JFK - HKG on 12/15/2017; 8,530mi, 16hrs: 44min
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CPA ... /KJFK/VHHH

Walk in the park for this bird!


Flights from HKG to USA will go Eastbound to take advantage of the winds, not West, but your point is well taken.

Obviously, there are some payload restrictions on these 16 hour flights, whether in the form of reduced passengers or cargo, but the fact that these flights can be flown profitability still speaks volumes to how great these aircraft (77W, 350, etc) are.

Coincidentally, flightaware showed an IAH-TPE leg about a week ago at 18 hours on the 77W. Pretty damn impressive. I can’t wait to fly this route in February - selfishly, I’m hoping for a 17-18 hour flight.
Whatever
 
gloom
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Re: How does EK fly their 77W 16+ hrs from DXB-IAH?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:38 am

tgharabegian wrote:
Long haul flight of 16+ hrs for the 77W is common, regardless of the load factor


Not really. 77W is TOW limited at 465.000 at that sort of range (16hrs at 0.84Ma means more or less 7500nm). And at ISA, which is not the case for EK.

Since operating dry is 370.000, pantry for that sort of flight 10.000+, plus fluids, that leaves some 80.000 lbs for pax load. So, basically it's pax only flight under most conditions, or trade pax for cargo. It's really stretch-the-limit sort of range.

77L on the other hand would not really be much limited at that sort of range.

Cheers,
Adam
 
tgharabegian
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Re: How does EK fly their 77W 16+ hrs from DXB-IAH?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:08 pm

@FriscoHeavy - thanks for direction correction..
 
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lightsaber
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Re: How does EK fly their 77W 16+ hrs from DXB-IAH?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:23 pm

gloom wrote:
tgharabegian wrote:
Long haul flight of 16+ hrs for the 77W is common, regardless of the load factor


Not really. 77W is TOW limited at 465.000 at that sort of range (16hrs at 0.84Ma means more or less 7500nm). And at ISA, which is not the case for EK.

Since operating dry is 370.000, pantry for that sort of flight 10.000+, plus fluids, that leaves some 80.000 lbs for pax load. So, basically it's pax only flight under most conditions, or trade pax for cargo. It's really stretch-the-limit sort of range.

77L on the other hand would not really be much limited at that sort of range.

Cheers,
Adam

I concur. The question is, does EK block pax for cargo? They used to block, iirc, 27 seats. That allowed them to sell 1 pallet of cargo. No pallet, some time before the flight, the seats opened up. Cargo rates recently spiked, but they weren't so hot a year or so ago.

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Pellegrine
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Re: How does EK fly their 77W 16+ hrs from DXB-IAH?

Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:25 am

gloom wrote:
tgharabegian wrote:
Long haul flight of 16+ hrs for the 77W is common, regardless of the load factor


Not really. 77W is TOW limited at 465.000 at that sort of range (16hrs at 0.84Ma means more or less 7500nm). And at ISA, which is not the case for EK.

Since operating dry is 370.000, pantry for that sort of flight 10.000+, plus fluids, that leaves some 80.000 lbs for pax load. So, basically it's pax only flight under most conditions, or trade pax for cargo. It's really stretch-the-limit sort of range.

77L on the other hand would not really be much limited at that sort of range.

Cheers,
Adam


Exactly. People need to understand that you need the REVENUE profile for such a flight. HKG-JFK-HKG on a lowish-density, high-yield 77W makes complete sense. Those 80,000 lbs. of pax load can be full of first and business paying 4 and 5 digit fares. You aren't going to see 15-16 hour 77W flights on heavy tourist and VFR routes.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: How does EK fly their 77W 16+ hrs from DXB-IAH?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:43 pm

Jet fuel and pilots.

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jetlife2
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Re: How does EK fly their 77W 16+ hrs from DXB-IAH?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:40 pm

If you search for "Payload-Range Chart" you will find many examples explaining this topic. It is also possible to find the actual Payload-Range chart for the -300ER and you can study the combinations. Some of the topics to read about "minimum zero fuel weight" (MZFW), "Max takeoff weight" (MTOW) and "Fuel Volume Limit". In a short while you will gain a lot of understanding.
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DocLightning
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Re: How does EK fly their 77W 16+ hrs from DXB-IAH?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:46 pm

Welcome to Airliners.net!

If you go to this website, you will find detailed technical information for all Boeing and most former McD aircraft: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airpor ... nuals.page

For the 777 current generation models, here is the document: http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingd ... 2lr3er.pdf

The payload-range chart you need is "Figure 3.2.2" on page 3-3. Stare at a bit and it should start to make sense. Feel free to ask us here if you need help interpreting something in this document.

But basically, for a flight like that, you're going to be severely payload-restricted to about 55 tons.
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lightsaber
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Re: How does EK fly their 77W 16+ hrs from DXB-IAH?

Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:43 am

DocLightning wrote:
Welcome to Airliners.net!

If you go to this website, you will find detailed technical information for all Boeing and most former McD aircraft: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airpor ... nuals.page

For the 777 current generation models, here is the document: http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingd ... 2lr3er.pdf

The payload-range chart you need is "Figure 3.2.2" on page 3-3. Stare at a bit and it should start to make sense. Feel free to ask us here if you need help interpreting something in this document.

But basically, for a flight like that, you're going to be severely payload-restricted to about 55 tons.

Excellent reference. Combine with Figure 3.3.20 and on a hot day, we see how restricted the payload can be at a 318,000kg MTOW on a hot day...

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