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ojjunior
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Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:52 pm

I was looking at this classic pic and came across something that I can not identify; perhaps smarter friends here will.
Image
Well, I see thrust reverses applied and braking smokes on the mains but... isn't it a taxiway???
Or back in 92 LHR's main runways looked like this?
Please help me on this.
Thank you.
 
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77west
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:59 am

Looks more like dust kicked up from the reversers, not brake smoke. But yes, the runway appears to be to the left of the plane. Stange.
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paullam
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:04 am

It doesn’t happen often but it’s not uncommon to use idle reverse on taxiways going downhill in order to prevent the wheel brakes from getting too hot. I’ve seen it plenty of times on biz jets but also on A320 etc., for instance in AMS on that taxiway leading to the Polderbaan.
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mmo
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:23 am

paullam wrote:
It doesn’t happen often but it’s not uncommon to use idle reverse on taxiways going downhill in order to prevent the wheel brakes from getting too hot. I’ve seen it plenty of times on biz jets but also on A320 etc., for instance in AMS on that taxiway leading to the Polderbaan.


Interesting, as the FCOM prohibits the use of reverse to slow the aircraft while taxiing on both the 320 and 400.
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barney captain
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:48 am

It looks like the spoilers are also deployed.....
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paullam
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:55 am

mmo wrote:
paullam wrote:
It doesn’t happen often but it’s not uncommon to use idle reverse on taxiways going downhill in order to prevent the wheel brakes from getting too hot. I’ve seen it plenty of times on biz jets but also on A320 etc., for instance in AMS on that taxiway leading to the Polderbaan.


Interesting, as the FCOM prohibits the use of reverse to slow the aircraft while taxiing on both the 320 and 400.


Even idle reverse?
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AirKevin
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:27 am

barney captain wrote:
It looks like the spoilers are also deployed.....

Is it possible that they automatically deploy once the reversers are deployed?
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Leej
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:54 am

Interesting photo. To my eye it looks like she is taxiing at the eastern end (northside) of 27L (or whatever designation then). You can see the spire of St Paul's Church near Hampton in the distance, so view is looking SSE and probably taken from the now demolished Queens Building. Could she have been taxiing from the maintenance base to the terminal with a little check of systems on the way? Did Varig use T4 or T3 back then?
 
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:42 am

paullam wrote:
Even idle reverse?



Yes, even with idle reverse. The preferred method is to apply one brake application to bring the aircraft to a very slow speed, release and then let the aircraft gain speed. Repeat as necessary. "Riding" the brakes will increase the brake temps much more than the recommended technique of a brake application.
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BravoOne
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:06 pm

Not uncommon on the Gulfstrean when during taxi, especially when light. Also was common on the 727 center engine but as I recall when your were in reverse you were blocking the air for the CSD oil cooler so extanded periods were discouraged.
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:51 pm

Nothing in the 757/767 manuals prohibits using reverse idle during taxi to keep speed in check or if taxiway is slippery.
 
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zeke
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:37 pm

Might be on the old runway 23
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bananaboy
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:27 pm

zeke wrote:
Might be on the old runway 23


That's what I think. It looks like the flaps are extended to quite an extent suggesting a landing.

The photo in the database states it had landed.



There are other photos of aircraft landing on 23 taken at Heathrow on that day.

http://www.airliners.net/search?country ... lay=detail


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ojjunior
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:08 am

bananaboy wrote:
zeke wrote:
Might be on the old runway 23


That's what I think. It looks like the flaps are extended to quite an extent suggesting a landing.

The photo in the database states it had landed.



There are other photos of aircraft landing on 23 taken at Heathrow on that day.

http://www.airliners.net/search?country ... lay=detail


Mark


Thank you all
But that's a damn taxiway looking runway then, isn't it?
 
bananaboy
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:49 am

ojjunior wrote:
bananaboy wrote:
zeke wrote:
Might be on the old runway 23


That's what I think. It looks like the flaps are extended to quite an extent suggesting a landing.

The photo in the database states it had landed.



There are other photos of aircraft landing on 23 taken at Heathrow on that day.

http://www.airliners.net/search?country ... lay=detail


Mark


Thank you all
But that's a damn taxiway looking runway then, isn't it?


Haha indeed! It wasn't used very often used as a runway as it messed up movements on the other runways. It also required BA to move their aircraft parked at the far end of runway 23 that were awaiting gates at T4. Others here will know much more about operations on runway 23 when it existed.

Mark
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zeke
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:43 pm

ojjunior wrote:
Thank you all
But that's a damn taxiway looking runway then, isn't it?


It is disappointing to see the photo caption had said it just landed on 23.

From the photo caption

“RG758 from Rio and Sao Paulo with thrust reversers deployed after landing on RWY23. DD 01.06.92. RT ILFC as N791LF 20.09.94. LT Garuda as PK-GSI 03.95”
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ojjunior
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:41 pm

Very interesting your perspective ... does it mean then that aircraft that land do not use taxiways afterwards? I am referring to the scene I see in the photo, sorry if this offends your vast wisdom.
 
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zeke
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:27 pm

It would have been more useful for you to provide all the information you had available whe you made your initial post, we could have provided you with what RW23 looked like.

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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:01 pm

I was the F/E on a EA 727 once when we backed up about 300’ on the Inner at BOS (might have bern the Outer in front of the main terminal). ATC or the yoke actuators goofed and got us nose to nose with an outbound L1011. We deferred to his size and backed up. Cappy asked th3 F/O and I, asked the Ground for clearance to the rear and away we went. Of course, power backs were common then.

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vikkyvik
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:43 pm

ojjunior wrote:
But that's a damn taxiway looking runway then, isn't it?


You can see white edge lines, which is what makes me think it's a runway.
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BoeingGuy
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:19 am

AirKevin wrote:
barney captain wrote:
It looks like the spoilers are also deployed.....

Is it possible that they automatically deploy once the reversers are deployed?


Yes, on Boeing airplanes there is an interlock that will deploy the speed brakes when the thrust reverser levers are raised.
 
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:22 am

mmo wrote:
paullam wrote:
It doesn’t happen often but it’s not uncommon to use idle reverse on taxiways going downhill in order to prevent the wheel brakes from getting too hot. I’ve seen it plenty of times on biz jets but also on A320 etc., for instance in AMS on that taxiway leading to the Polderbaan.


Interesting, as the FCOM prohibits the use of reverse to slow the aircraft while taxiing on both the 320 and 400.


That’s not true for Boeing airplanes unless a customer has adopted that policy. The FAA approved AFM prohibits backing the airplane using reverse thrust on the 747, 767, 777, and 787 (but it’s not prohibited for the 737 or 757). Says nothing about slowing the airplane on a taxiway.
 
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zeke
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:44 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
The FAA approved AFM prohibits backing the airplane using reverse thrust on the 747, 767, 777, and 787 (but it’s not prohibited for the 737 or 757).


It is prohibited on some 757s, need to check the AFM for the model and engine.
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:59 pm

zeke wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
The FAA approved AFM prohibits backing the airplane using reverse thrust on the 747, 767, 777, and 787 (but it’s not prohibited for the 737 or 757).


It is prohibited on some 757s, need to check the AFM for the model and engine.


I checked years ago and it wasn’t prohibited in the 757 AFM I looked in, but didn’t check all combos like you state. AA experimented with it at DFW many years ago and they have RR engines. Britannia had a 757 power back procedure in their own 757 FCOM, but I don’t know if they ever did it.

Not only did AA quickly decide it wasn’t a good idea, I was told that they couldn’t get the airplane moving backwards at high gross weights.
 
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Balerit
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:50 am

The fact that the spoilers are raised and the flaps are deployed, shows that it is landing. By the way the spoilers will only auto deploy if the lever is lifted out of it's detent (armed). The puff of smoke from the nose gear (seen near the main gear) is an indicator as well.
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BoeingGuy
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:01 pm

Balerit wrote:
The fact that the spoilers are raised and the flaps are deployed, shows that it is landing. By the way the spoilers will only auto deploy if the lever is lifted out of it's detent (armed). The puff of smoke from the nose gear (seen near the main gear) is an indicator as well.


That's not completely correct on Boeing airplanes. The spoilers will deploy when the airplane is on the ground if the Thrust Reverser Lever(s) are raised, regardless of whether the Speedbrake lever is armed.

The Speedbrakes will only auto deploy on touchdown if the level is armed and thrust levers are at idle.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:16 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Not uncommon on the Gulfstrean when during taxi, especially when light. Also was common on the 727 center engine but as I recall when your were in reverse you were blocking the air for the CSD oil cooler so extanded periods were discouraged.


Yeah, we have a nest of G-Vs here in GRR- see it all the time. I've seen Citation 750s do it occasionally as well.

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PowerliftDrsTX
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Re: Doubt: Reversing on taxiway?

Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:10 pm

barney captain wrote:
It looks like the spoilers are also deployed.....



Many of the jets I have flown have automation that automatically deploys (sometimes half of) the spoilers when wheelspeed hits a certain number and thrust levers are at idle. The automation assumes you want to slow down and the boards come up.

I also echo the "brake cooling" comments but I know nothing of the 74 limitations on TR usage during taxi.

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