bevan7
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Landing charges for diverted planes?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:53 pm

HI

Do planes have to pay fees for landing in a diversion? If so can the airport charge what they like or is there special universal rates?
 
rutankrd
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:06 pm

Most certainly do plus handling fees and fuel.

One of the main reasons carriers try to divert to a company station where ever possible as accounts will be set up with appropriate agencies

Off line diverts it’s minimum use company credit card (most aircraft in reputable carriers have one onboard the aircraft as part of the manuals and documentation or Pro formacinvoice to HQ and electronic transfers .

Terms may differ from immediate to 7 or 30 days as agreed.
 
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Blimpie
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:37 pm

rutankrd wrote:
Most certainly do plus handling fees and fuel.
Off line diverts it’s minimum use company credit card (most aircraft in reputable carriers have one onboard the aircraft as part of the manuals and documentation or Pro formacinvoice to HQ and electronic transfers .

Terms may differ from immediate to 7 or 30 days as agreed.


Just curious, what sorta of credit cards would be assigned to an AC? I know at my office, we have some fleet cars we let reporters drive that have a gas card on them (w/ Net 45 terms), but I can't image something like a Texaco Aviation FuelPerks card with a credit line that would cover refueling an A350 (little sarcasm implied there :lol: ).
Now get the hell off of my lawn your dang kids!
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:56 pm

Or they have contract fuel with services like World Fuel Services, Colt, UVAir. We had contract service in corporates at all sorts of oddball places, like Brazzaville and Petro.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:57 pm

Over the years there have been some curious incidents reported, but the internet these days is so obsessed with cookies & advertising revenue that I often cannot find what I know is out there. So, from my rusty memory alone;
I recall an Easyjet weather diversion, to an airport not regularly used by them, and the pilot was unable to obtain fuel with the standard Easyjet fuel card. After sharing this information with the passengers, one of them came forward with his Amex and covered the amount. This wasn't some remote backwater; it happened somewhere in France.

I recall wondering at the time why the pilot himself didn't step forward, as it occurred to me that I have covered similar amounts on my personal credit card (i.e. the hotel bill for a conference delegation), and I am not even a high earner. Then again, Easyjet pilots might claim the same.

In 2012 this AF flight made an emergency stop in Damascus.
"The pilot asked first class passengers to give him cash, as apparently Damascus airport authorities had refused to give fuel to the plane. Everyone started rooting around for money and managed to raise $17,000"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ascus.html

This doesn't actually answer the OP's question about landing charges, but does give a couple of insights into airline finances. :lol:
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
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32andBelow
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:06 pm

Credit cards aren’t used much. Airlines subscribe to world wide fuel contractors. The contractor will pay for the fuel and bill the airline.
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:23 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Over the years there have been some curious incidents reported, but the internet these days is so obsessed with cookies & advertising revenue that I often cannot find what I know is out there. So, from my rusty memory alone;
I recall an Easyjet weather diversion, to an airport not regularly used by them, and the pilot was unable to obtain fuel with the standard Easyjet fuel card. After sharing this information with the passengers, one of them came forward with his Amex and covered the amount. This wasn't some remote backwater; it happened somewhere in France.

I recall wondering at the time why the pilot himself didn't step forward, as it occurred to me that I have covered similar amounts on my personal credit card (i.e. the hotel bill for a conference delegation), and I am not even a high earner. Then again, Easyjet pilots might claim the same.

In 2012 this AF flight made an emergency stop in Damascus.
"The pilot asked first class passengers to give him cash, as apparently Damascus airport authorities had refused to give fuel to the plane. Everyone started rooting around for money and managed to raise $17,000"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ascus.html

This doesn't actually answer the OP's question about landing charges, but does give a couple of insights into airline finances. :lol:


542 posts in 3 months? You are either close to your bandwidth cap or close to needing a splint for carpal tunnel :lol:
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:25 pm

The Sheihk's posts are good... frequent, but informative and on point. JMO.
 
Planesmart
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:32 pm

In the past, one of the anti-competitive tools to stifle competition, was withdrawal (or very expensive) airport services including fuel, largely due to pressure applied by established operators. In front of government watchdogs, the official line would be concerns / lack of credit information, but really competition suppression.

Diversions are already bad PR for an airline. If you could prolong the pain, how much better for legacies / worse for the upstarts.

There are various payment tools available, including funds accessible on 'special use' cards.

Just because you are dealing with a global company (for example fuel), doesn't mean an airline will have immediate access to supposedly global lines of credit, because you are also subject to foreign currency controls, partly owned subsidiaries operating under a common brand..............

A heads up for QF to make arrangements, in case their planned direct LHR flights make unscheduled diversions for equipment or technical reasons at airports not adjacent to current one stop flight paths.

EDIT: Didn't answer the question. If the airline operates to the airport, but this is a diversion, usually as per published scale of charges, plus an unscheduled surcharge. If the airline doesn't operate to the airport, usually a one off fee. Adjoining airports which often handle weather and other diversions, negotiate lower or no unscheduled surcharges with each other for their regular customer airlines. Some original destination airports even pay the alternates airport fees, and collect from their customers.

Gone are the days where a diverted aircraft and crew could be held pending payment of outrageous sums (often described as taxes), before release. In 2018, that would result in diplomatic consequences, suspension of IATA membership and over-flying rights, asset seizure.............
 
Kilopond
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:49 pm

bevan7 wrote:
HI

Do planes have to pay fees for landing in a diversion? If so can the airport charge what they like or is there special universal rates?


Airports are no charities, but only the published official fees and duties will apply. Any usury is illegal according to international aviation laws and contracts.

32andBelow wrote:
Credit cards aren’t used much. [...]


Exactly! There will be EXTREMELY rare cases in which a plane operator will still be regarded credit-worthy by the banks but not by the aviation business partners.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:04 pm

kjeld0d wrote:
542 posts in 3 months? You are either close to your bandwidth cap or close to needing a splint for carpal tunnel :lol:

WPvsMW wrote:
The Sheihk's posts are good... frequent, but informative and on point. JMO.

Aw shucks, you guys are making me blush!

Or, as Oscar Wilde might have said;
To gain one cyber stalker may be regarded as a misfortune; to gain two looks like carelessness :lol:

(In addition to the 542 posts listed, you should know that there are probably several hundred more that are not listed because they only briefly saw the light of day. For example, this post is definitely off-topic and destined for instant oblivion) :wave:
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
Arion640
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:03 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Over the years there have been some curious incidents reported, but the internet these days is so obsessed with cookies & advertising revenue that I often cannot find what I know is out there. So, from my rusty memory alone;
I recall an Easyjet weather diversion, to an airport not regularly used by them, and the pilot was unable to obtain fuel with the standard Easyjet fuel card. After sharing this information with the passengers, one of them came forward with his Amex and covered the amount. This wasn't some remote backwater; it happened somewhere in France.

I recall wondering at the time why the pilot himself didn't step forward, as it occurred to me that I have covered similar amounts on my personal credit card (i.e. the hotel bill for a conference delegation), and I am not even a high earner. Then again, Easyjet pilots might claim the same.

In 2012 this AF flight made an emergency stop in Damascus.
"The pilot asked first class passengers to give him cash, as apparently Damascus airport authorities had refused to give fuel to the plane. Everyone started rooting around for money and managed to raise $17,000"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ascus.html

This doesn't actually answer the OP's question about landing charges, but does give a couple of insights into airline finances. :lol:


Was the first paragraph regarding easyjet from the tv show airline, If so I remember that episode. The airport was lyon.

I was going to post about it but you beat me too it.
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sixtyseven
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:11 am

As per credit cards. Indeed they were part of the on board library at AC. Gone now.

As an aside an AC 747 did a charter to CUN years ago and the fueller did not accept the card and there was no account set up between the company and the fuel company. The company didn’t know what to do and suggested to the Captain to “pass around the hat” and paying the people back on return to YYZ.

The Captain said no way. Looking around the ramp there was a Continental aircraft which AC had just made a big investment in. Continental bought the gas and on the 747 went. This was back in the early 90s.
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JannEejit
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:12 am

Just curious about how this works... So if an airliner diverts to a non network field in a dire emergency circumstance like failed cabin pressure, a failed engine or grave medical situation; does the aircraft crew or airline have to produce "funds" before receiving airport services or after ? I'm assuming it's after but who knows ?
 
727200
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:14 am

I was at ONT one day years ago and in comes an Air Uganda 707 combi. It tried to get tower approval to land and they were told, at the time, their were no customs facilities and to continue to LAX. The pilot refused and put her down. The plane was immediately surrounded by security and they had to wait on board until the proper authorities would review their documents. 5 days later they were still on the plane. No one would provide fuel because they were not sure of getting paid, so they demanded cash. To make a long story short, it was finally determined they had cleared customs when they first entered US airspace, I think DTW, but no one at the time knew that. So eventually the mess got cleared up and they loaded up Caterpillar equipment and engines on the ship. And yes their manifest showed destination as ONT. They paid cash for the fuel, and were sent on their way.
 
71Zulu
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:46 am

JannEejit wrote:
Just curious about how this works... So if an airliner diverts to a non network field in a dire emergency circumstance like failed cabin pressure, a failed engine or grave medical situation; does the aircraft crew or airline have to produce "funds" before receiving airport services or after ? I'm assuming it's after but who knows ?

I knew of a charter bus company in MSY that handled a diversion from GPT for SkyBus and told them no credit extended to anyone, if you want these buses somebody must put up a credit card. That credit card turned out to be the personal Amex card of the Captain, this was near the end and was a couple thousand dollars, I always wondered if he got reimbursed for that. :D
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:24 am

Contract fuel, like World Fuel, is taken just about everywhere and can arranged in minutes. Any recognized airline or handling company like Jeppesen ITP or Universal can make it happen. I’ve been in Africa, South America and had the contract come in email in minutes.

GF
 
LH658
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:09 am

What happens when the passenger is sick etc, they have to divert? Does the PAX get any fees hit at them?
 
71Zulu
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:21 am

LH658 wrote:
What happens when the passenger is sick etc, they have to divert? Does the PAX get any fees hit at them?
Oh heck no, that is the cost of doing business for the airline.


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bluejuice
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:17 am

After TWA 847 was hijacked, flight attendant Uli Derickson used a personal Shell card to pay for fuel at Algiers
Not biased against vacuum flush.
 
Cunard
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:02 am

bluejuice wrote:
After TWA 847 was hijacked, flight attendant Uli Derickson used a personal Shell card to pay for fuel at Algiers


And that was on the June 14 1985 before we had the internet or email as the main means of communication and no smart phones so slightly irrelevant to any situation that may occur in 2018.
 
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CARST
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:23 am

Cunard wrote:
bluejuice wrote:
After TWA 847 was hijacked, flight attendant Uli Derickson used a personal Shell card to pay for fuel at Algiers


And that was on the June 14 1985 before we had the internet or email as the main means of communication and no smart phones so slightly irrelevant to any situation that may occur in 2018.


It's still a nice story. Through this forum I heard about so many stories from older times. Also this one came up a few times in the last 15 years. Despite being not relevant in 2018, it does no damage to look back sometimes and see how things were just 20 or 30 years ago...
 
gokmengs
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:24 am

This is a fascinating thread, pilots and pax paying for fuel wow.I'm guessing with Internet available almost everywhere you can get written approval via email pretty much everywhere. Can anyone confirm any airlines still having a company credit card on board?
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aviationaware
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:27 am

bevan7 wrote:
HI

Do planes have to pay fees for landing in a diversion? If so can the airport charge what they like or is there special universal rates?


Airports have public price lists which constitute standing offers for contracts. As soon as you put wheels on the ground, you close a contract based on implied assent. The airport can then bill the airline based on that price list, they can't just make up any price they want.
 
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nighthawk
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:10 am

Some airlines also carry cash in the cockpit, just in case they have to divert to a remote airport where no contracts are in place.

With modern technology, and the ability to transfer money quicker than ever, the practice is probably becoming less common, but it still happens. Lets not forget aviation is a global industry, and not all parts of the globe are as technologically advanced as others.
 
smi0006
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:45 pm

Many airports charge to be held as an alternative, of course in an emergency they will accept you. But if you don’t pay the yearly fee you can’t file them as an alternate for flight planning purposes - so the airport gets paid even if you never land there. I know one airport which charges 300k AUD a year
 
gunnerman
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:24 pm

Ferry flying is an uncertain business with a diversion possible due to bad weather, running out of fuel, mechanical problems, etc, so some pilots carry US Dollars as a backup means of payment.
 
bevan7
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:32 pm

smi0006 wrote:
Many airports charge to be held as an alternative, of course in an emergency they will accept you. But if you don’t pay the yearly fee you can’t file them as an alternate for flight planning purposes - so the airport gets paid even if you never land there. I know one airport which charges 300k AUD a year


Wow. How interesting. Thanks for all the information you all have posted. Very helpful
 
mackdad
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:27 pm

What about diverting into military bases? How are the charges billed?
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:45 pm

mackdad wrote:
What about diverting into military bases? How are the charges billed?


If a civilian plane diverted to a military air field, they would likely be met by MP's with rifles pointed. The only way for a civilian plane to land at a base is to get the written approval of the base comander. There's paperwork involved, and pre-planning ahead of time.

Not sure how things work if a plane declares a dire emercency and must land at the closest available airfield? I assume they would still be met by MP's?

I have also heard Air Force and Navy panes don't generally use to other services air facilities for things like refueling. There's so much paperwork and beurocracy involved getting the fuel, the planes usually just drop into a civilian FBO.
Last edited by pwm2txlhopper on Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
bevan7
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:51 pm

On a similar note what about military aircraft that divert to civilian ones? I remember a couple of cases of this over the last few years. Do the military pay or just point their guns?
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:54 pm

There have been stories of commercial pilots using their own AMEX cards to buy fuel in very unusually circumstances.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:10 pm

pwm2txlhopper wrote:
mackdad wrote:
What about diverting into military bases? How are the charges billed?


If a civilian plane diverted to a military air field, they would likely be met by MP's with rifles pointed. The only way for a civilian plane to land at a base is to get the written approval of the base comander. There's paperwork involved, and pre-planning ahead of time.

Not sure how things work if a plane declares a dire emercency and must land at the closest available airfield? I assume they would still be met by MP's?

I have also heard Air Force and Navy panes don't generally use to other services air facilities for things like refueling. There's so much paperwork and beurocracy involved getting the fuel, the planes usually just drop into a civilian FBO.


Military planes use civilian airports all the time; it’s not unusual to see fighters at airport FBOs. I’ve diverted a C-5 into several civil airports, Gander a couple times because fuel wasn’t working out as planned. The services have no restrictions on inter-service use; there’s a DOD fuel card that’s charged. Theoretically it even used for aerial refueling.

GF
 
RetiredWeasel
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:26 pm

During my carrerr at a major US airline, diverting into a military base was not that big of a deal. There were no MP's with guns pointing at you. That's a myth. The base commander may send out a guard or two to keep your aircraft safe or if it hasn't cleared customs to keep the PAX on the airplane.

Diverted into Elmendorf AFB twice, Anderson AFB twice, Yokota AB once and probably a couple more I can't remember. Fuel and service charges are just invoiced and sent to the airline assuming your company had a good reputation for paying bills. All my diverts were for unforcast weather conditions or ATC saturation. Now I'm not talking about diverting to 'Groom Lake'...Ha
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:34 pm

pwm2txlhopper wrote:
If a civilian plane diverted to a military air field, they would likely be met by MP's with rifles pointed. The only way for a civilian plane to land at a base is to get the written approval of the base comander. There's paperwork involved, and pre-planning ahead of time.

Not sure how things work if a plane declares a dire emercency and must land at the closest available airfield? I assume they would still be met by MP's?

That's a pretty definitive answer; are you describing the usual situation that will happen in all 193 members of the United Nations?

Clearly there are some countries where it would be seriously inadvisable to land at a sensitive military base.
And there are plenty of others that wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Perhaps you could tell us which country you were referring to, so that I can cross it off my "must visit" list.
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
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Semaex
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:15 pm

bevan7 wrote:
Do planes have to pay fees for landing in a diversion? If so can the airport charge what they like or is there special universal rates?


Goodday.

If I may comment from a Business Operator point of view:
Diversions occur rather often in our line of work. Partly because clients want to fly to VFR or other tricky aerodromes which become unaccessable inflight, partly because during cruise they decide to stop at another location.
So if this happens, we fly to whatever alternate and pay the usual (and officially published) landing and handling fees. Most often the captain uses the aircraft's credit card (AMEX, Master, Visa, pretty much anything is accepted). When it comes to fuelling, it can be more tricky, because providing fuel on short notice can be more expensive than if it had been a scheduled landing. So there you have a variable cost. A good operations department will try to sort out how much fuel you will need to leave your alternate before you arrive, and arrange cheapest fuelling options accordingly.

The more tricky question is in fact: Will the aerodrome, at which you were scheduled to arrive, charge you any cancellation fees? After all they prepared for you to land and arranged your handling already.
Most airports will actually charge a handling fee even though you diverted, especially on weekends and public holidays. And if you pre-arranged fuel, you are also looking at "no-fuel-compensation-charges". But landing charges won't apply.

But coming back to your initial question, which has already been answered by another member: It is not allowed by the diversion airport to charge you more than their usual and published rate, just because you are in a desperate situation.

mackdad wrote:
What about diverting into military bases? How are the charges billed?

First thought: If you file a flight plan with a military airfield as an alternate, this plan will probably be rejected before you ever received start-up. At least if you run it through CFMU (which I know isn't much concern for anybody flying outside Europe).
For all further points, I guess the other members answered your question. The CAA and the MPs will have a long conversation with the captain.


Regards,
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast if you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
bevan7
Topic Author
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:45 pm

Semaex wrote:
bevan7 wrote:
Do planes have to pay fees for landing in a diversion? If so can the airport charge what they like or is there special universal rates?


Goodday.

If I may comment from a Business Operator point of view:
Diversions occur rather often in our line of work. Partly because clients want to fly to VFR or other tricky aerodromes which become unaccessable inflight, partly because during cruise they decide to stop at another location.
So if this happens, we fly to whatever alternate and pay the usual (and officially published) landing and handling fees. Most often the captain uses the aircraft's credit card (AMEX, Master, Visa, pretty much anything is accepted). When it comes to fuelling, it can be more tricky, because providing fuel on short notice can be more expensive than if it had been a scheduled landing. So there you have a variable cost. A good operations department will try to sort out how much fuel you will need to leave your alternate before you arrive, and arrange cheapest fuelling options accordingly.

The more tricky question is in fact: Will the aerodrome, at which you were scheduled to arrive, charge you any cancellation fees? After all they prepared for you to land and arranged your handling already.
Most airports will actually charge a handling fee even though you diverted, especially on weekends and public holidays. And if you pre-arranged fuel, you are also looking at "no-fuel-compensation-charges". But landing charges won't apply.

But coming back to your initial question, which has already been answered by another member: It is not allowed by the diversion airport to charge you more than their usual and published rate, just because you are in a desperate situation.

mackdad wrote:
What about diverting into military bases? How are the charges billed?

First thought: If you file a flight plan with a military airfield as an alternate, this plan will probably be rejected before you ever received start-up. At least if you run it through CFMU (which I know isn't much concern for anybody flying outside Europe).
For all further points, I guess the other members answered your question. The CAA and the MPs will have a long conversation with the captain.


Regards,

Thanks Semaex. Really appreciate this detailed explanation.
 
cofannyc
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:46 am

pwm2txlhopper wrote:
If a civilian plane diverted to a military air field, they would likely be met by MP's with rifles pointed.


Maybe in the US. I was once on a QF flight diverted into RAAF Richmond. There were certainly no guns pointed at the aircraft; in fact, almost no one approached the aircraft except when we were fueled and headed back out to SYD.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:12 am

Very interesting discussion.

I'll add that if we decide to divert, we inform our operations department ASAP. That way they can get on with arranging with the diversion airport. Much easier to have pre-arranged fuel, ground power, etc than to show up and go "Hi... Where should we park?"

The vast majority of diversions aren't due to serious emergencies. They're a function of weather, unexpectedly high fuel burn or medical situations. There's typically some time for operations to make a few phone calls.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:49 am

The Concorde would divert to Bradley (KBDL) about once a year due to JFK weather-always a news event locally. Once a BA 744 diverted, but of a mess. No customs, no operative APU, so they ran an engine for an hour or so before heading back to JFK.

GF
 
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Florianopolis
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Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:04 am

I can't believe there hasn't been a "I'm sorry, we don't take Discover" joke.
 
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zeke
Posts: 12695
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:37 am

cofannyc wrote:
Maybe in the US. I was once on a QF flight diverted into RAAF Richmond. There were certainly no guns pointed at the aircraft; in fact, almost no one approached the aircraft except when we were fueled and headed back out to SYD.


We already carry civil landing permits for US military bases. It’s a contingency already taken account for.

Are you sure it was Richmond ? Not Williamtown or East Sale ? Richmond is not a normal approved QF diversion port, but anything is possible if that’s your last resort.

Williamtown is normally a shorter flight time due to the vectors, even with Richmond being physically closer by 48 nm as the crow flies.

I have asked about Richmond before, they did not have ad-hoc steps or refilling capability for a widebody except with prior arrangement. Might have changed since the RAAF took on A330 tankers.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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OneSexyL1011
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:10 pm

Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:29 am

pwm2txlhopper wrote:
mackdad wrote:
What about diverting into military bases? How are the charges billed?


If a civilian plane diverted to a military air field, they would likely be met by MP's with rifles pointed. The only way for a civilian plane to land at a base is to get the written approval of the base comander. There's paperwork involved, and pre-planning ahead of time.

Not sure how things work if a plane declares a dire emercency and must land at the closest available airfield? I assume they would still be met by MP's?

I have also heard Air Force and Navy panes don't generally use to other services air facilities for things like refueling. There's so much paperwork and beurocracy involved getting the fuel, the planes usually just drop into a civilian FBO.

MP doesn't pull up and point guns at airliners that divert to their bases. Thats absolute nonsense.

Diversions to military bases happen a lot more often than one may think.
 
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airportugal310
Posts: 3364
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:49 am

Manager of Fuel Programs for a major US airline here...many of the above posts are correct. Our crews carry a certain amount of checks onboard JUST in case they end up at some very odd place that I didn’t already pre-arrange fuel for. I typically set up open fuel releases at any airport that our dispatchers designate as likely alternates in case of a diversion. Therefore, if a Flight diverts along a route of Flight OR anywhere within say 250nm of its destination, I’m covered thru a reseller (World Fuels, etc...) or thru a supplier I already buy from at a normal station. Pays to have those relationships...

Anything else and I will get a call in the middle of the night for help. It’s never been an issue in my many years doing this.

Anything unusual can be solved with a simple phone call to a fuel supplier at that airport. Airlines aren’t exactly hard up for cash these days and your word goes a long way. When I was i was doing this work for private jet operators, it was totally different and your mileage varies immensely!
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 1304
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:16 pm

World Fuel always worked for me! Interesting conversation with a WFS senior VP in A380 EK lounge on the way to DXB. WFS ran the fuel into Afghanistan for the USG. I joked, it’s a pity about those fuel convoy attacks. He said, we get paid for fuel prior to country entry if It’s not delivered it’s not on us. They’re an interesting company.

GF
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2249
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:29 am

I diverted to Hyderabad from Mumbai once due to heavy rain. Never saw the runway even with the HUD. When we got to Hyderabad I knew we were in for a long day when the grd controller asked us as we turned off the runway, "Fedex why are you here?" We got parked and it took 4 hrs to get fuel and another flt. pln. Then guys started coming in the cockpit asking for money for using the ladders, gloves and headsets. I was ACARSing Ops should I use our onboard credit card. They emphatically said NO! The Co. will pay all the fees. As for the long day, we still had to go back to Mumbai then on to Dubai. When we landed in Dubai the mechanic said he heard what happened, "go have drink mate".
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 1304
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:48 am

That was a day!

GF
 
travaz
Posts: 718
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:31 am

I was told by someone that works at PHX that AA guaranteed the charges when Qantas diverted an A380 into PHX for a medical emergency. This was 8/18/2017.
 
cofannyc
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:22 am

Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:56 pm

zeke wrote:
Are you sure it was Richmond ? Not Williamtown or East Sale ? Richmond is not a normal approved QF diversion port, but anything is possible if that’s your last resort.

Williamtown is normally a shorter flight time due to the vectors, even with Richmond being physically closer by 48 nm as the crow flies.

I have asked about Richmond before, they did not have ad-hoc steps or refilling capability for a widebody except with prior arrangement. Might have changed since the RAAF took on A330 tankers.


I won't swear by it, but for some reason Richmond stood out in my mind.

EDIT: I found my log. It was January 2016 and I wrote "diverted to XRH" in my log. It was a QF A330 from MNL.
 
benbeny
Posts: 202
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Landing charges for diverted planes?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:42 pm

Does airline pay fixed price contract for handling at their airports? Or they count all the movements and then charge the airline afterwards?
And how if an airline goes bust mid flight? Will the destination airport still get their money?

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